The Official Gundam: The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

[Zeino]

Wait, so does this mean that The Origin will be taken the MSG movie trilogy's place in official UC continuity since from what I understand having not read the manga, that it's the exact same story only with more indepth background information on the setting and characters.

[Kenji]

There has never been a Gundam canon that anyone in Sunrise has seen fit to preserve. Not even (or "Especially not") Tomino.

[RLZIII]

Wait, so does this mean that The Origin will be taken the MSG movie trilogy's place in official UC continuity since from what I understand having not read the manga, that it's the exact same story only with more indepth background information on the setting and characters.

If Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin does get animated, it won't be taking the place of anything. It will essentially just an an alternate telling of Mobile Suit Gundam, in the same way that the manga is. The manga isn't considered a replacement for the series. It's simply a re-imagining. Think of it as the difference between SDF Macross and SDF Macross: Do You Remember Love?. Both are separate of each other; one doesn't simply replace the other.

[yazi88]

Wait, so does this mean that The Origin will be taken the MSG movie trilogy's place in official UC continuity since from what I understand having not read the manga, that it's the exact same story only with more indepth background information on the setting and characters.

Tons of shows have had re-makes/reboots that are or have to be canon. The most recent one I can think of is Shin Mazinger Z. It pretty much is a retelling loosely based on the original series/manga with the same main characters/enemies except adding a twist from one of its other rettellings Z Mazinger which was Mazinger with a Greek Mythology mix.

From what I know and read, the characters are also a bit different:

Spoiler

Amuro is a bit less of a dick such as he is willing to sacrifice his meal to civilians on the White Base, and Bright actually taking pity and beating Amuro a considerable amount less compared to the original series. Amuro is also far more exhausted from constant battles and Bright hesitates to sortie him when during Garma's campaign arc. Of course more pilots and more Guncannons and Guntanks.

Also something was added from the Tomino Novels IIFC in Origin:

Spoiler

G-3 Gundam, thats right, Amuro actually PILOTS it.

To be honest, are we really all that surprised for a anime adaptation of Origin? It didn't completely come out of nowhere cause wasn't there a GFF of the RX-78-02 Origin Gundam announced a few weeks ago?

[Mu La Flaga]

On a note of a different sort, 1 down and now a bunch of other candidates could eventually be in line to get adapted.

For instance.
CDA, Advance of Zeta, SEED Astray&MSV, X Astray, Wing G-Unit or Frozen Teardrop, X Under the Moonlight are all good choices to me.

[Zeino]

On a note of a different sort, 1 down and now a bunch of other candidates could eventually be in line to get adapted.

For instance.
CDA, Advance of Zeta, SEED Astray&MSV, X Astray, Wing G-Unit or Frozen Teardrop, X Under the Moonlight are all good choices to me.

What about Crossbone Gundam?

[Rawinder]

On a note of a different sort, 1 down and now a bunch of other candidates could eventually be in line to get adapted.

For instance.
CDA, Advance of Zeta, SEED Astray&MSV, X Astray, Wing G-Unit or Frozen Teardrop, X Under the Moonlight are all good choices to me.

What about Crossbone Gundam?

Too old and too distant from the OYW-Unicorn era.

I think Frozen Teardrop could be a possibility a ways down the road, though it'll need to develop an actual plot first.

[yazi88]

No love for Sentinel?

[MS-05DS]

No love for Sentinel?

Sentinel have an issue with the license because Bandai doesn't have full license for Sentinel works. because of that, Sentinel doesn't likely going to become an anime.... >>>CMIIW

[Chris]

What about Crossbone Gundam?

I really don't get all the love for Crossbone. I think it has to do with the mystique it built up for so many years because it wasn't available in English. But now there are fan translations, and what we get is a mixed bag. The story is a typical Gundam one, despite the new setting of Jupiter. Yeah, the Crossbone Gundams themselves are really cool looking, but all the Jupiter mecha are hideous. All the Jovians themselves are cult-ish psychopaths, with the exception of the obligatory Ramba Ral-type character. And as Rawinder pointed out, it's an old series and too far removed from Zeon. When it comes to UC, the most successful entries have been about the Federation-Zeon conflict, not the (original) Crossbones or the Zanscare. There's also a merchandizing element - what do you make kits out of? Again, aside from the Gundams, the mobile suits are all hideously ugly. Ever notice that all the model kits/GFF/etc are only for the Gundams? If you did a Crossbone anime, you'd have to design all new mecha for the Jovians.

[Muser]

I really don't get all the love for Crossbone. I think it has to do with the mystique it built up for so many years because it wasn't available in English. But now there are fan translations, and what we get is a mixed bag.

Crossbone, and its sequels/spin-offs, are great examples of the non-Japanese fandom's infatuation with the unknown. It also exposes the persistent contrariness of those that allow their opinions to ebb and flow with the grand internet majority. While I love the Jovian mechs for being so deliciously campy (nothing reinforces that you're the baddies like an army of giant skeleton grunts!), the core story is Tomino's trademark teen + mech + war with surprisingly fewer shades of grey than we usually get out of Gundam. Not to mention the fact that the stories' pirate aesthetics (capes! cutlasses! beam muskets!) and wackier elements (Zaku monkeys! Zaku monkeys!) chistle deeply into the 'serious' sci-fi image that so many love to ascribe to the Universal Century. Yet, Crossbone gets so much unabashed love, while a new Gundam series (one with a similar Matsumoto-esque character art style no less) is raked over the coals months before it even debuts. Go figure.

Every time there's speculation on a new series in this franchise on English-boards, the most obscure entries from its darkest corners are dragged from their niches and out into the light. Animated MSV stories! Gaia Gear! For the Barrel! I want to see a Kazuhisa Kondo Gundam! Okay, that last one's admittedly mine. But, a lot of these stories tend to be the same-old-same-old Gundam formulas, redressed with a few bells and whistles. Those that aren't tend to be too obscure to drag out for a general audience (tragically, I do not see a Counterattack of Gigantis adaptation in our immediate future). Or, they're so wildly different from the expectations they generated at their announcement that they stir up a frenzy of debate that's not always pretty (ie. Frozen Teardrop).

Anywho, it leaves me wondering if there's a similar response among the Japanese fans who have more access to these various sidestories and spinoffs. I can remember a time when English-speaking fans really wanted to see a Hathaway's Flash production, because Xi Gundam looks absolutely awesome, even as lineart. Then, as the UC translations trickled through, we eventually got to know Hathaway via a certain Counterattack. Then we got to summaries of his somewhat anti-climatic story. Presently, I can't think of one long-time Gundam fan who likes Hathaway. At all (apologies if you are indeed out there! With my luck, you're probably Soul Bro Ryu).

Though, sometimes gaining knowledge of an unknown entity within the franchise can lead to positive outcomes. I can also remember a time, back in the post-Wing days of yore, when Turn A was often an object of seething fan-hate (my own included) because its character designs and mech lineart were "not Gundam." Then, the actual episodes eventually tumbled out into the ether and more legitimate responses, good and bad, were formed. To steal a phrase, all this has happened before... etc, etc.

Now, along comes Origin, which is not really a complete unknown so much as it is not widely known. Still, despite the reigning precedent, I'm optimistic about it. If nothing else, its deep One Year War roots make it the safest bet in the sea of Gundam spin-off options. Sure, it'll generate those dreaded continuity/canon debates for years to come, but it's got that something-old-dressed-in-something-new approach that can potentially appeal to old and new fans alike. And there'll be cool toys. We all love cool toys. ^^

[kayone73]

There has never been a Gundam canon that anyone in Sunrise has seen fit to preserve. Not even (or "Especially not") Tomino.

To be honest as time goes by, I've grown to care less and less about canon when it comes to fictional works especially with the recent trend in retconning because ultimately, what does fictional canon actually mean to us?

Here's my take: when we're fans of a certain fictional work we like to immerse ourselves in this fictional universe deeply and enjoyment comes from in depth development and consistency/continuuity, aka 'canon'. Ok, yes I like continuuity as much as anyone else in a fictional franchise but at the same time I've grown less and less bothered about it over time, because after all...its friggin not real, who really cares if a new creator tries a slightly different take on an existing work of fiction. Are going to argue about the merits of Wicked being part of Wizard of Oz canon, or Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are dead. part of official Hamlet canon?

Hell even the Bible which many would call an assembled work of fiction, has been retconned and redited countless times, yet do millions of Christians across the world scream foul because of this (maybe they do, they get worked up over many things), but you see my point.

In fact I think I'm going to copy n paste this in the podcast mailbag and see what the hosts opinions are on the matter of fictional canon.

[Gundamfan]

I wouldn't mind seeing Ecole Du Ciel animated either.

[Mark064]

While I can't speak for anyone else personally I like Crossbone Gundam a lot, the story, the characters, and the mecha. Yes that includes the Jupiter Empire designs my personal favorite Jupiter Empire design being the Erebado. But I think they are filled with many awesome designs like the Quavarze, Divinidad, Pez Batara and so on. Oh and I like Hathaway as a character too and enjoy the Hathaway's flash story too. Hathaway also gets bonus points for killing Chan who on the other hand I hated.

While slightly unrelated I always liked the designs of Turn A Gundam long before it was cool to hate Turn A Gundam. I liked the design of the Gundam itself and I thought the whole idea of finding a Gundam buried underground was an awesome concept. And more so one of the main reasons I wanted to see G Gundam originally was because I wanted to see Nether Gundam animated.

[Koshernova]

Exactly

Spoiler

It doesn't really stray that much. What it does do is flip when the events of Jaburo and Odessa happen. Rather than having White Base land in "New Yark", fly to Africa, then to West Asia and back to South America, the manga has them land in LA (where Garma is now headquartered, follow the coast to Jaburo, then head to Odessa. It just had the ship act in a lot more logical fashion and cuts out some of the filler.

Wait wait wait WAIT, does this mean:

Spoiler

a) The White Base no longer stops in Belfast? There goes one of my two Gundam claims to fame (the other is living in a city that is destroyed on screen in a Gundam production).

b) Miharu isn't part Irish anymore, maybe?

c) Odessa happens after Jaburo now? In the movies at least, the White Base departs Earth right after the battle of Jaburo.

[Chris]

Anywho, it leaves me wondering if there's a similar response among the Japanese fans who have more access to these various sidestories and spinoffs. I can remember a time when English-speaking fans really wanted to see a Hathaway's Flash production, because Xi Gundam looks absolutely awesome, even as lineart. Then, as the UC translations trickled through, we eventually got to know Hathaway via a certain Counterattack. Then we got to summaries of his somewhat anti-climatic story. Presently, I can't think of one long-time Gundam fan who likes Hathaway. At all (apologies if you are indeed out there! With my luck, you're probably Soul Bro Ryu).

Well, when it comes to Hathaway's Flash, you can't compare it to CCA. Flash is a sequel to Beltorchika's Children, where Hathaway was lauded as a hero for killing Quess. He's not a whiny brat who kills Chan (a character that doesn't even exist in the novel). So the Hathaway hated so much in CCA is not the exact same character as appears in Hathaway's Flash.

But to the broader point, I would imagine that Japanese fans don't have the same yearnings we do. As you point out, they have greater access and everything is in their native language. They don't have these collective fan myth notions that all these unattainable manga and novels are so incredibly awesome. What I wonder is, how many people have even read Crossbone Gundam or Gundam Sentinel? Both have been fan translated for quite awhile now, but I bet just as many people clamor to see them animated without having actually read them and experienced the story.

[pd771]

But to the broader point, I would imagine that Japanese fans don't have the same yearnings we do. As you point out, they have greater access and everything is in their native language. They don't have these collective fan myth notions that all these unattainable manga and novels are so incredibly awesome. What I wonder is, how many people have even read Crossbone Gundam or Gundam Sentinel? Both have been fan translated for quite awhile now, but I bet just as many people clamor to see them animated without having actually read them and experienced the story.

I bet a lot of people do to. Though Crossbone is fairly popular in Japan. The simple amount of times it's made it into game like ACE, SRW, and Gundam vs. Gundam make it clear. I personally enjoyed the story, but then again I can see how it's absurd in many ways too. I'd like to see it animated, but I don't think it's the Holy Grail of Gundam like so many seem to. It's a fun story that has some of the Tomino's odder quirks thrown into it.

Exactly

Spoiler

It doesn't really stray that much. What it does do is flip when the events of Jaburo and Odessa happen. Rather than having White Base land in "New Yark", fly to Africa, then to West Asia and back to South America, the manga has them land in LA (where Garma is now headquartered, follow the coast to Jaburo, then head to Odessa. It just had the ship act in a lot more logical fashion and cuts out some of the filler.

Wait wait wait WAIT, does this mean:

Spoiler

a) The White Base no longer stops in Belfast? There goes one of my two Gundam claims to fame (the other is living in a city that is destroyed on screen in a Gundam production).

b) Miharu isn't part Irish anymore, maybe?

c) Odessa happens after Jaburo now? In the movies at least, the White Base departs Earth right after the battle of Jaburo.

Spoiler

I haven't read it myself, so I don't know if everything I've picked up is correct, but here is what I elieve the order of events are.

1. White Base lands in California, fights against Garma's forces.
2.On their way to Jaburo are attacked by Ramba Ral.
3.Face Black Tri Stars
4.Reach Jaburo.
5.Go to Belfast and encounter Miharu.
6.Travel to Odessa and participate in the battle.

I could be wrong though. The manga has been unbelievably hard to get info on.

[Chris]

I bet a lot of people do to. Though Crossbone is fairly popular in Japan. The simple amount of times it's made it into game like ACE, SRW, and Gundam vs. Gundam make it clear. I personally enjoyed the story, but then again I can see how it's absurd in many ways too. I'd like to see it animated, but I don't think it's the Holy Grail of Gundam like so many seem to. It's a fun story that has some of the Tomino's odder quirks thrown into it.

What I mean is that people in Japan like Crossbone for different reasons. They like it because the manga is easily available and they can actually read it. For Western fans, stuff like Crossbone, Sentinel, Hathaway's Flash has built up this strong like from people who had never read it. It's popularity was inversely proportional to its availability. I can recall people talking about Crossbone in the early 2000s before any of it had ever been translated, and it was getting lots of blind love from people who didn't even know the story, but were sucked in just by the pirate aesthetic.

[Deacon Blues]

Unless you have proof that "x-series is popular in Japan", it gets said for a lot of series. If it was as "popular" as you say, then it'd be topping the polls and what not... which is hasn't.

[Fritz Ashlyn]

For Western fans, stuff like Crossbone, Sentinel, Hathaway's Flash has built up this strong like from people who had never read it.

Speaking as one westerner who HAS actually read Sentinel, it would be pretty awesome to get a couple of OVAs of it or something.