What's Your Current Anime? Mk III

[TetraVaal]

I hear the movie really sucks, though. I also have the unrated bluray discs for the series, so I'm sure I'll get some bloody moments that I've heard about.

I'm pretty stoked to start Eureka Seven, but I won't be able to til' tomorrow. I might watch the third Zeta Gundam movie tonight again, if I get the chance.

[reeoyuy]

@TetraVaal: I told you your standard is too high .

SEED is my second least favorite, but I disagree it's absolute worst. And also, you missed out a lot if you skip the ending. No matter how many spoiler you read, you won't get the feel and missing out bits that people forgot to mention. As Duelgundam2099 said, the final battle is awesome. It's so intense, many died, beam spam everywhere, nukes, GENESIS, METEOR, and badass Providence Gundam. You missed out a lot.

I don't get why you summarized Geass as SEED rip off simply because one physically-similar character and one similar situation.

Spoiler

Euphie never sing like Lacus and she DIED. Killed by Zero. How's that similar to Lacus? Pink haired girl is a common thing in anime. And despite stranded together in isolated island, Kallen and Suzaku never ended up as couple like Athrun x Cagalli

I know you hate Geass so much, but come on. It's just some common anime tvtropes; pink hair, stranded in island, former friends turned up rival, etc.

Y'know, I'm pessimistic that you'll like Eureka Seven. I don't think you're open for change. Eureka is far from traditional faction vs faction war, and if you really hate rollerskating mech, what about surfing mech?

[LightningCount]

TETRA I didn't know someone summarized; but I did it more in-depth! Please read below!

I got 38 and a half episodes into SEED and just flat out called it quits...Also, did Code Geass rip off Gundam SEED? ...There's that episode where Athrun and Cagalli are stuck on an island together, which instantly reminded me of the episode where Suzaku and Kallen are stuck on an island. If so, this would explain why I also hate Geass so much.

Anyway, can someone just spoil both SEED and SEED Destiny for me? I'm never going to revisit these series ever again. So what happens between Kira and Athrun? What happens to Fllay? What happens in SEED Destiny and what turns out to be the ultimate resolution? Thanks in advance.

Code Geass, and Gundam 00 for that matter (Al and Marie's S2 island adventure), took some of the noted scenes/ideas from SEED. Not sure if SEED was the first ever, but it was before those two. (Though, as far as island episodes go, I thought SEED's was more meaningful and executed better). By the way, you didn't like Rau playing both sides in Operation Spitbreak?

...Spoil a season and a quarter? That's a tall order...These shows have a lot of ins and outs, but I'll just try to cover the bases, I guess, and someone else can fill in the blanks. I only have time for SEED right now. I hope you'll read it after the time this took:

SEED Remainder Summery:

Spoiler

Kira and Athrun team up along with Dearka, Mu, and Orb's defense forces to defend Orb, but the attacks just keep coming. Lord Uzumi arranges for the Archangel and one of his country's ships (Kusanagi) to go into space on their mass-driver (let the "seeds" fly), then blows that mass-driver and advanced armament factories (that built the Gundams) to kingdom come along with himself. There's a revelation in here that Kira and Cagalli are brother and sister, though Kira is a Coordinator and she is not, and none of the parents either child knew were their parents. (More on that later). Well, Blue Cosmos supporter Azrael eventually follows them into space (after learning of a mass-driver acquired elsewhere in a bloody battle), eager to learn about the Freedom and Justice's tech specs. Meanwhile, Lacus is on the run for treason, and her father is assassinated without fanfare.

Well, Athrun decides he needs to confront his father one last time, to convince him to stop the war. That goes over well; he ends up attacking his father and getting shot (winged) by the man. Athrun gets sent to prison; but he realizes his father doesn't care about the memory of his mother anymore in a rational way, or him (that Uzumi was right), and decides he can't side with his father. Lacus has allies, though, in ZAFT, including Andrew Waltfeld, who is revealed to be alive, but with one less arm and one less eye, and Waltfeld's lieutenant, Decosta. (Waltfeld's survival, like many resurrected SEED characters, had to do with staff and fan reactions, or concurrent multimedia side-stories, which causes some of the greatest hiccups in the CE Universe; but maybe it can be explained off...). Anyway, they rescue Athrun in a firefight, steal the ZAFT battleship, Eternal, and eventually team up with the Archangel and Kusunagi. Both ZAFT and the Earth Forces want this new "Three Ships Alliance" dead, so the SEED gang is on their own to try to figure out how to stop the war from escalating.

To evade detection, the SEED gang goes to the abandoned Mendel Colony, which was supposedly the site of a bio-hazard (a cover-up story). They try to gather themselves there. Rau and Yzak are on their trail, though, and battle between them and Mu and Kira takes place. Everyone is shot down, except Yzak, who is caught in a standoff with Dearka, who tries to convince Yzak to reevaluate things. Yzak doesn't go for it, but is somewhat disturbed by the whole situation anyway. Meanwhile, Rau leads Kira and Mu to a building full of scientific instruments, where a crazy, revelatory firefight happens. Turns out it’s a Coordinator laboratory where Kira was created. It turns out Kira is the "Ultimate Coordinator, which means the use of an "artificial womb to circumvent the natural womb's shortcomings in order to create an infant which has all the intended genetic modifications without any deviations. This gives whoever is the Ultimate Coordinator genetic superiority over the average Coordinators." Turns out Kira's real father was a scientist, Professor Ulen Hibiki, who wanted to push the limits of genetic manipulation, and took one of his children to have that happen--after many, many failures. But wait, that's not all. Rau reveals to Mu that he is a clone of Mu's father. Kira's father needed funding for his Ultimate Coordinator project, and Al Da Flaga, Mu's father (a powerful politician), wanted a perfect son, as he felt Mu was too weak/soft as his blood was tainted by his mother. So, Kira's father made Rau for the money to create Kira.

Rau talks about how greedy and selfish humankind is, trying to play God, and creating artificial standards for one group of people to be perceived as better than another. Also, it slowly becomes apparent/implied that Rau, as a clone, is biologically breaking down (hence the pills, which are explained in Destiny). Rau was designed to age faster to replace Mu, and has worn the mask to hide the fact that he looks like the famous Flagas; and has been able to pass as a Coordinator due to the Flagas' preternatural abilities. (It's also implied that Rau burned down the Flaga manor and killed Al, disgusted with what he was--a creation of a man's greed)

Anyway, Rau says, in a nutshell that, as a product of mankind's sins against God, he is the only one in the universe who has the right to judge mankind. He's been playing both sides all along--Azrael and Patrick Zala--and plans to open the "final door" with the "key" to erase all of humankind, so that they aren't allowed to continue their embarrassingly self-destructive, sinful existence that they cannot change from. Mu gets hospitalized after this encounter, as he was shot, and is really angry about the truth and knows that he has to defeat Rau soon.

In the meantime, Rau passes the "key" (the N-Jammer Canceller tech) via a disk with Fllay back to Azrael, despite Kira's efforts to stop this. Azrael, by the way, is already in command of Natarle (who is conflicted, but sticks to military protocol that the Archangel are traitors) and an Archangel-type battleship, the Dominion. Anyway, Azrael is a kid in a candy store, and uses the N-Jammer Canceller tech that Fllay unwittingly passed on (Rau told her it would "end the war") to reactivate the Earth Forces nuclear arsenal. Azrael uses this to take out one of ZAFT's main strongholds, Boaz. A second launch is aimed at the PLANTS, but it is stopped by the Three Ships Alliance (The Justice and Freedom are equipped with METEORS, which are assault add-ons very similar to 0083's Dnmbrobium add-on). Ironically, this allows Patrick Zala to activate a gamma-ray cannon, GENESIS, ZAFT's ultimate weapon, and he wipes out a large portion of the Earth Fleet, including their Moon base. I believe another wave of nukes aimed at the PLANTS is intercepted and at this point, it's all-out war, with GENESIS being pointed at the Earth.
The Dominion and Archangel clash, and Natarle has the better of her former CO, Murrue, but Mu flies in after being weakened in battle by Rau, and uses the Strike's Phase Shift armor and shield to absorb the brunt of the Dominion's beam attack, saying to Murrue that he can famously "Make the impossible possible." Then his Gundam blows up, and Murrue is left to mourn another lost pilot boyfriend (she lost one pre-series ala 00's Sumeragi). Natarle and Azrael bicker, Natarle wavering and trying to stop another attack on the Archangel, and Azrael shoots her. Natarle begs her former CO to attack, and this gives Murrue enough time to attack and destroy the Dominion, along with Azrael and Natarle. In the ensuing fight, Fllay gets killed in a stranded life pod by Rau as Kira tries to protect her; Dearka gets injured by Rau; and Yzak kills two of the Human CPU/druggy-piloted EF Gundams, Athrun destroys the other. All the female Orb pilots die…

Athrun and Cagalli enter the GENESIS, Athrun in prepared to shoot his father. But ZAFT is splintering under their radical leader, especially with all of Lacus' activities, and someone else in the control room kills him. His last request to Athrun is to fire GENESIS on Earth. That's going to happen anyway, because it’s on auto-fire now. Athrun decides he'll self-destruct the Justice in the GENESIS and sacrifice himself, but Cagalli won't have it. Nevertheless, the Justice is set to self-destruct.

Rau and Kira have their final battle, Rau showing his new Gundam Providence's many funnels. He takes out most of the Freedom's body parts, including the head, but Kira manages to stab Rau with his last arm and sword. Rau smiles as he dies, consumed by the GENESIS' energy. But, the Justice self-destructs, and the GENESIS' power output is cut short. Cagalli shows up with Athrun in Strike Rouge, and they prepare to pick up Kira, who is left pondering over the future as he floats in space. All of them are shaken up, and yet relieved that the Earth and PLANTS survived, while Lacus and the remaining ZAFT Council (including Yzak's mother, I think) make plans for a cease-fire. The Earth Forces, in disarray, are in no position to keep fighting, their presence is space compromised.

That's about it. There's an epilogue OVA in Japan, not released overseas, that shows the characters parting ways, and some of them going into hiding in Orb, as they're still considered outlaws.

The Destiny series will begin with a flashback to the Battle of Orb (circa episode 38), where a young coordinator's family is killed by the clashing of the Calamity and Freedom Gundams, and he screams in sorrow and anger. His name is Shinn Asuka. (He is set up to be the Kamille of CE, if Kira was the Amuro of CE). To be continued... (I'll have to really simplify Destiny to get through it).

Any thoughts? I mean, it's not "perfect," but this is entertaining stuff, IMO.

[TetraVaal]

I told you your standard is too high

Why, because I don't like mediocre shows?

you missed out a lot if you skip the ending. No matter how many spoiler you read, you won't get the feel and missing out bits that people forgot to mention. As Duelgundam2099 said, the final battle is awesome. It's so intense, many died, beam spam everywhere, nukes, GENESIS, METEOR, and badass Providence Gundam. You missed out a lot.

And you missed where I said that I prefer dialogue and story over action. It doesn't matter how grand scale battles are, especially if you're seeing action unfold in almost every single episode. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer stuff like Patlabor to Gundam, because action sequences in the former are so far and few between, but they're so memorably choreographed, that you can reference to almost every single action sequence in that film series, where as in the latter, so many battles occur that there tends to be a decent amount of filler. I've never been an "epic scale" kind of guy, I like my action sequences to be grounded and realistic. So, with that being said, I highly doubt that I'm missing anything special, considering my preferences.

I don't get why you summarized Geass as SEED rip off simply because one physically-similar character and one similar situation.

I didn't summarize, I asked, there's a difference. Like I said, the comparison between Euphie and Lacus goes deeper than just appearances, their personalities remind me too much of one another. And what does

Spoiler

Euphie being killed

have to do with this? I'm comparing their personalities, not their fates.

And despite stranded together in isolated island, Kallen and Suzaku never ended up as couple like Athrun x Cagalli

And?... What significance does this have? No matter if each character goes in a different direction, those two episodes themselves still have a lot of similarities.

I don't think you're open for change.

You don't know me or my preferences, so stop trying to guage what I would be or wouldn't be into. I enjoy everything from real robot and real science, to super robot and exceedingly futuristic weaponry, that is too early to tell if it will ever exist in the first place.

Eureka is far from traditional faction vs faction war

...Which is one of the reasons why I'm excited to check out Eureka Seven. Did you not see any of posts in here? Are you sure you read them correctly? I've become burnt out on the war plots.

and if you really hate rollerskating mech, what about surfing mech?

The whole "surfing" aspect doesn't bother me, seeing as they still engage in some ground combat and don't always fight in the air. That, and the LFOs at least look cool and interesting, which the Knightmare frames do not.

@Lightning, thanks for the spoilers and write up... unfortunately, I don't have much to add... there's really nothing in there that catches my interest.

[wielder]

Considering that Euphemia was essentially a tragic character and Lacus really isn't one, the similarity is more of a subversion than a true rip-off. Their roles and purposes in context end up being radically different once you get past the intentional resemblance.

Or you might as well just argue they're both "rip-offs" of Relena Peacecraft from Gundam Wing, but that also wouldn't be fair to any of the characters involved once the relevant details are considered. There are some similar personality traits but they're still distinct enough if we were to look at everything about them.

Then again, if you believe that any such similarity qualifies as a "rip-off" then I'd think you should be far more concerned about all the different Char Aznable-like masked men running around throughout the entire length and breadth of Gundam as a property.

Code Geass, and Gundam 00 for that matter (Al and Marie's S2 island adventure), took some of the noted scenes/ideas from SEED. Not sure if SEED was the first ever, but it was before those two. (Though, as far as island episodes go, I thought SEED's was more meaningful and executed better).

I'm quite sure SEED itself didn't come up with that idea either, as far as fiction is concerned, but I don't think there's anything wrong with using common narrative devices or character archetypes to begin with. Let alone when it's Sunrise itself doing this, not another studio altogether, and beneath the similarities we can still find plenty of differences.

[TetraVaal]

then I'd think you should be far more concerned about all the different Char Aznable-like masked men running around throughout the entire length and breadth of Gundam as a property.

I actually made mention of this in the other Anime thread... as a new fan of Gundam, I feel the metaseries collectively lacks uniqueness due to the AU timelines trying to capitalize off of Gundam's most renowned villain.

But back to Euphie, again, I only asked... I didn't flat out call it a rip off. I probably wouldn't have even bothered asking had it not been for the episodes where two individuals from opposing factions get stranded on an island together.

[wielder]

I actually made mention of this in the other Anime thread... as a new fan of Gundam, I feel the metaseries collectively lacks uniqueness due to the AU timelines trying to capitalize off of Gundam's most renowned villain.

Sorry I missed that then. Still, I would personally disagree. I believe those masked men aren't necessarily Char-clones as individuals, even if they do serve to appeal to an audience who likes that type of character.

Could Sunrise move away from using them altogether? Absolutely, but sometimes they can even illustrate that just because you happen to wear a mask and act like an antagonist this doesn't mean you're going to be Char Aznable but, for better or for worse, a different person with other qualities and flaws.

But back to Euphie, again, I only asked... I didn't flat out call it a rip off. I probably wouldn't have even bothered asking had it not been for the episodes where two individuals from opposing factions get stranded on an island together.

I see. By the way, I've just remembered that something similar happened to two characters all the way back in 1983's Orguss, of all things, so yeah...having characters from opposing factions end up in an island or deserted location where they proceed to try and bond isn't exactly a new or unusual situation. Also, I believe that in Code Geass there were four, not just two, characters involved when that happened. Still, it's obviously the same narrative device. I suppose some people will hate it and others won't. I guess I'm indifferent.

[TetraVaal]

I believe those masked men aren't necessarily Char-clones as individuals, even if they do serve to appeal to an audience who likes that type of character.

I would probably agree with this if the appearances of these characters didn't have the same visual aesthetic. That, and minor differences in those antagonists' ultime goals, isn't enough for me to really separate them. I think you're right in that Sunrise probably tries to give these characters their own personality, but I think it ultimately fails, because at the same time, they're clearly trying to use Char as the source of inspiration.

I just remembered that something similar happened to two characters all the way back in 1983's Orguss, of all things, so yeah...having characters from opposing factions end up in an island or deserted location where they proceed to try and bond isn't exactly a new or unusual situation.

Right. I mean, It's not unfamiliar for two opposing factions to feature characters that are sometimes stuck in a situation where they have to rely on one another, but considering the parralels you can draw between SEED and Geass, it just doesn't seem vague. If you really look at it, it's one character who gets their orders from a masked villain, while the other character is a protagonist from a faction trying to put an end to said villain's revolution or whatever. That, and the shows didn't really come out between a strong time gap... it just feels too familiar.

[wielder]

I would probably agree with this if the appearances of these characters didn't have the same visual aesthetic. That, and minor differences in those antagonists' ultime goals, isn't enough for me to really separate them. I think you're right in that Sunrise probably tries to give these characters their own personality, but I think it ultimately fails, because at the same time, they're clearly trying to use Char as the source of inspiration.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree...well, either that or go into an in-depth character analysis of what does or doesn't separate each of these characters from Char. I wonder what you'll think of Harry Ord from Turn A though...and if nothing else, I'd argue that Full Frontal confirms even the most straightforward example (the so-called "Second Coming of Char Aznable") can be interesting.

The ironic thing is, however, that even the Red Comet himself is a direct descendant of the sympathetic antagonists found in several Super Robot shows that preceded Gundam. In fact, some of them also used masks and others nevertheless played a similar role.

Right. I mean, It's not unfamiliar for two opposing factions to feature characters that are sometimes stuck in a situation where they have to rely on one another, but considering the parralels you can draw between SEED and Geass, it just doesn't seem vague.

I can understand that might be a problem, yes, but from my point of view those parallels are often merely superficial or, if not, intentionally used to make a different point and serve another purpose despite resorting to similar elements or characters along the way. You could make a case for Code Geass being at least a partial subversion or cynical parody of Gundam SEED, considering that the director's previous work (Gun X Sword) did something along the same lines (albeit from a different angle), going as far as to make Michael and Kira share the same exact voice actor. Not to mention that, in context, the island scenario above didn't lead to the same outcomes for the people involved.

[LightningCount]

@Tetra
Well, all things considered, I don't think you really need to know the details about Destiny. Not judging, but you could even watch the somewhat different "Stargazer" side-story since CE isn't seemingly remotely enjoyable to you as an overall narrative. With regard to Destiny and Stargazer, the most important thing to know is that:

Spoiler

The Junius 7 ruins are dropped onto Earth about 6 or 7 episodes in by a handful of Zala loyalists, which causes great damage to the Earth and causes tensions between a military-industrial complex of Blue Cosmos backers in the Earth Forces and the new ZAFT, which rushes to provide aide and liberation to Earth.

For all of Destiny's imperfections, I'll just state for the record that ZAFT's Gilbert Durandal, like Rau le Crueset of SEED, is one of my favorite characters in all of Gundam for his stage presence, use of intelligence, rhetorical skill, and his embodiment of his underlying ideology. Some great conversations surround him. Shinn, Rey, and Talia are also nice additions despite their ups and downs...and Neo, despite the questionable plot devices involved, is a fun character.

Spoiler

It's rather amusing to see a masked character who has the nonchalant personality of Mu.

As far as one faction vs. another, for the record, Gundam Wing isn't as simple as that overall. But I digress. And yes, I think Relena has had a lot of influence in Gundam since 1995--even if, like Char, those likely inspired by her (Lacus, Marina, Cagalli) differ in various ways. And as I said, the mask trope is repetitive and often annoying, but I think a number of the masked "villains" hold their own with their own stories and actions (Ironically, I see "Full Frontal Char" dipping back retroactively into the wardrobes and hairdressing shops of Zechs and Rau. lol). And Wielder noted that Char wasn't particularly the "first" even in the genre. But speaking of those two in particular, you have to remember the circumstances, that Gundam needed a shot in the arm when both Zechs and Rau were created. People were losing interest in UC following V Gundam, and G-Gundam created a quality distraction to reset Gundam. Then it was up to Wing to keep Gundam going and bring back in some more traditional elements to appease all sides. Same thing for SEED, which was a far more direct attempt than Wing overall to appeal to UC fans while bringing in a new fanbase following the lackluster results of X and Turn-A.

If you want series with generally a handful of punctuated battles, Yukikaze, RahXephon, Gasaraki, and Blue Sub #6 come to mind. From my memories, though, an AU series like SEED, despite its numerous battles, did a more thoughtful job of character dialogue interactions than many of the UC TV series I've seen (or 00 in the AU category). I felt it did more to emphasize and weave together the characters' emotions and the various motivations at work in the war. But that's neither here nor there. It's just my opinion. I'm a guy who likes to think over the meanings behind the dialogues and politics that go beyond individual episodes, as I've said, but who also digs great, stylistic action (as long as it doesn't get too goofy-looking). I know what you mean about the danger of a glut of action, though. (By 00 Season 2, for instance, the action felt pointless because I didn't really care about the plot or characters being developed). Action-wise, there's actually only sections of action in SEED I really like (Heliopolis, Artemis, Desert, Orb, and some of the concluding eps in particular), but I've said enough. I'm very picky myself and haven't had a super strong viewing experience in some time (the best have been slightly above middling, which has elevated SEED), so good luck in your next series...

[reeoyuy]

Why, because I don't like mediocre shows?

Your definition of "mediocre" and how you treat them is what I think too much. I never asked you to lower your standard or forcing you to like what you dislike. But like I said before your standard is too rigid and you want a show to flow the way you want to be. Seems to me you're not enjoying your mecha anime marathon.

And you missed where I said that I prefer dialogue and story over action. It doesn't matter how grand scale battles are, especially if you're seeing action unfold in almost every single episode. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer stuff like Patlabor to Gundam, because action sequences in the former are so far and few between, but they're so memorably choreographed, that you can reference to almost every single action sequence in that film series, where as in the latter, so many battles occur that there tends to be a decent amount of filler. I've never been an "epic scale" kind of guy, I like my action sequences to be grounded and realistic. So, with that being said, I highly doubt that I'm missing anything special, considering my preferences.

You may find something there, but you also may find nothing. You'll never know if you never watch it, no amount of reading on spoilers will do. You can said how it's not to your liking only if you seen it by yourself. Not because I or everyone else described it in words.

I didn't summarize, I asked, there's a difference. Like I said, the comparison between Euphie and Lacus goes deeper than just appearances, their personalities remind me too much of one another. And what does

Spoiler

Euphie being killed

have to do with this? I'm comparing their personalities, not their fates.

wielder already explained about why comparing their fates is important. Also, if they really intentionally made such resemblance but then give her entirely different fate, wouldn't that be something interesting (to discuss), not something to complain?

And?... What significance does this have? No matter if each character goes in a different direction, those two episodes themselves still have a lot of similarities.

Oh, it's really significant. Athrun and Cagalli relationship all started from that encounter. And that's the purpose of isolated island arc. Suzaku and others stranded on that different island for entirely different plot purpose. Not the same, despite same setting.

You don't know me or my preferences, so stop trying to guage what I would be or wouldn't be into. I enjoy everything from real robot and real science, to super robot and exceedingly futuristic weaponry, that is too early to tell if it will ever exist in the first place.

Everything? If you want to enjoy everything, then stop nitpicking. There's always flaws, stupidity, and things that may hampered your enjoyment. But you won't enjoy everything if you constantly complaining about things and comparing this to that. I bet you will stop watching ZZ halfway if not for it having close relation to Unicorn.

...Which is one of the reasons why I'm excited to check out Eureka Seven. Did you not see any of posts in here? Are you sure you read them correctly? I've become burnt out on the war plots.

Just don't stop halfway again.

The whole "surfing" aspect doesn't bother me, seeing as they still engage in some ground combat and don't always fight in the air. That, and the LFOs at least look cool and interesting, which the Knightmare frames do not.

I thought you prefer your mech walking or running? LFO, while fighting on the ground also use rollerskating movement since most of them can transform into car (thus having wheel on their feet). And their aesthetic similar too. Skinny limbs, humpback cockpit...

Any thoughts? I mean, it's not "perfect," but this is entertaining stuff, IMO.

You mean, not as "perfect" as Unicorn.
And don't bother recommending Tetra with Destiny. I considered myself as "neutral" yet I'm joining Destiny-hater camp. But at least I watched it to the end.

[Mu La Flaga]

I'm in a simillar boat, Destiny I see it's flaws but I don't outright hate the show.
But I agree, what Reoyuy says about your standards.

Especially when you don't see shows through until the end.
Remember what happened with Gundam X?
First time you dropped off watching ti, then 2nd time you ended up loving the whole damn series.

So you should it see through until the end before making final judgement.
I would say the same for Code Geass R2, it's nowhere as bad a SEED Destiny in comparisson of how it failed to do some things or used plot ideas or characters ect.
Instead of the outcome we got.

Not to mention some of these shows in mention had some internal problems when they were either created or airing on tv in Japan at time.

So that also kind of can explain some things slightly.
But anyway I'm just dropping in to say a few small points on it, since it doesn't seem like you will see them through

I see through my shows until the end before forming final opinion.
As I've said before like with Eureka Seven, there wasn't much I overly liked or latched on to in that show and it just was not as great as say Rahxephon for instance.

[TetraVaal]

Your definition of "mediocre" and how you treat them is what I think too much. I never asked you to lower your standard or forcing you to like what you dislike. But like I said before your standard is too rigid and you want a show to flow the way you want to be. Seems to me you're not enjoying your mecha anime marathon.

How do you figure that my standard is too high? Better yet, why do you care to make the comment about my standards being so high, only to follow it up by telling me not to lower my standards? Let's even say you're right... my standard is so high, at least I'm not settling. I'm always out looking for QUALITY shows or movies, I refuse to settle, and if that makes my standards deemed "too high" for you, so be it... I won't lose any sleep.

You may find something there, but you also may find nothing. You'll never know if you never watch it, no amount of reading on spoilers will do. You can said how it's not to your liking only if you seen it by yourself. Not because I or everyone else described it in words.

Through 39 episoes, I didn't find anything compelling or riveting about Gundam SEED, from it's terribly contrivant story, to its unlikeable characters, and unmemorable battles. I'll gladly take my chances by not watching the remainder of the show. If I didn't see any great battles through 3/4ths of that show, I highly doubt the last act will feature anything worthwhile either.

wielder already explained about why comparing their fates is important. Also, if they really intentionally made such resemblance but then give her entirely different fate, wouldn't that be something interesting (to discuss), not something to complain?

And? Despite the explanations he gave, it still doesn't negate the fact that those two scenes are hardly vague in similarity. The context of each scene remains completely identical.

Oh, it's really significant. Athrun and Cagalli relationship all started from that encounter. And that's the purpose of isolated island arc. Suzaku and others stranded on that different island for entirely different plot purpose. Not the same, despite same setting.

No, this is not significant, this is you grasping at straws to justify one show's meaning over the other. Again, even if those characters all have separate fates, the context of those scenes are completely identical (two members from opposing factions, one member from each faction is even tied up at some point, yet they both have to join hips to survive the situation). You can spin it any way you like, it still doesn't negate the fact that those two scenes are identical to one another.

Everything? If you want to enjoy everything, then stop nitpicking.

How old are you, 12? I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just that you have a hard time of understanding things (that, or you're illiterate). I said I enjoyed everything from ranging genres, it doesn't mean I actually enjoy EVERY SINGLE THING. Also, I'm not "nitpicking", therer's so many glaring problems from SEED, that it would be a bit of a stretch to call that "nitpicking."

I bet you will stop watching ZZ halfway if not for it having close relation to Unicorn.

I finished ZZ about a month ago... I even talked about to great lengths on this forum. See, you don't know enough about my posts to even try and guage what I like or don't like. You're just passing off these quick judgments based on the fact that I really hate Gundam SEED. Get the fuck over it.

Just don't stop halfway again.

And what if I do? You gonna call the anime police? God, you're sad.

I thought you prefer your mech walking or running? LFO, while fighting on the ground also use rollerskating movement since most of them can transform into car (thus having wheel on their feet). And their aesthetic similar too. Skinny limbs, humpback cockpit...

I do prefer mechas that run or walk, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other variations of movement. Also, I didn't hate every single mecha from Geass, I even mentioned that I liked the Lancelot and the Gawain... how quickly you overlook that (can't say I'm surprised). Also, I wouldn't say that the mechs in Geass and Eureka Seven are all that similar, they may be a bit more narrow and slim in size, but there's something far more interesting about the LFOs than the Knightmare frames, that I can't quite put my finger on.

You mean, not as "perfect" as Unicorn.
And don't bother recommending Tetra with Destiny. I considered myself as "neutral" yet I'm joining Destiny-hater camp. But at least I watched it to the end.

Unicorn is far from perfect, but the fact you have to keep falling back to that as your only frame of reference in regards to what I like, further showcases how narrow and limited your knowledge of my anime preferences are. And you watched Desinty to the end... so what? Would you like some sort of accolade for that? Is that a monumental life achievement, you managed to watch a shitty anime series to the end, which is something I probably couldn't do. Is that like beating someone in a 100 yard dash for you?

[Seraphic]

Man, this is getting out of hand. =(

Tetra is entitled to have an opinion and express it. Everyone else needs to mind their own business. It's really an uphill battle to force a single person to like everything, so really, just stay out of his hair.

***

Kekkaishi is getting really good, and I'm rather shocked they were willing to let one of their main characters go like that. I also read that the show is only 52 episodes long and reaches a definite conclusion, so no, this won't be one of those endless shounen shows. Thank god.

I actually enjoyed an episode of Zeta for once where Kamille runs into Reccoa after the defection. And I enjoyed everyone's reaction to the colony laser. So far everything else in Zeta kinda felt like random happenings with little consequence, so I hope it picks up towards the end.

***

I know you're freaking burned out on Gundam, Tetra, but if you ever eventually revisit Wing, I think you'll at least enjoy the sequel movie Endless Waltz. It's got a significant increase in animation budget, and is overall a pretty good experience. It just has to tell a lot of story in a little bit of time, but I think it handles it really well.

***

Introduced the waifu to mecha anime via Zone of the Enders: Idolo. She liked it, but it confused me when she referred to the Orbital Frames as "spaceships", lol.

[TetraVaal]

Haha, thanks Seraphic, but it's alright, I don't mind debating. I just hate it when someone tells me what my standards are, and even if they are a bit high, it's like I said... I refuse to settle. I want excellence at all times.

Anyway, I'm going to finish Wing... I'm only 14 episodes in, but I'll finish the series (including Endless Waltz)... it may just come at a slower pace.

[Amadi Akintunde]

...speaking of Idolo, I need to finish I, Dolores.

I've been on a Gundam Wing binge lately. I just can't help but still love that show. D;

Even though their battle scenes could have had less stock footage.

[wielder]

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

The world would be a terribly boring place if we all agreed about everything, don't you think? Having said that, I'm afraid the previous discussion is just going around in circles by now. It would seem there's not much that remains to be said at this moment.

As for what else I've watched: Armored Trooper Votoms - Case; Irvine.

I thought it was a decent self-contained story, if nothing particularly innovative or unusual. Even without knowing the language the visual narrative was straightforward enough to follow. Perhaps a little too much though, in terms of general predictability. The new character designs really aren't going for nostalgia at all but at the very least the mecha themselves seem like they would fit in easily enough within the established Votoms universe. I'd say the battles were fairly enjoyable too, even if the last one was slightly over-the-top.

Granted, the contrast between characters and mecha indicates that they were obviously trying to appeal to a younger audience and not just preexisting fans, but I don't think the staff did a bad job. With the possible exception of one character in particular (Dona), the cast didn't get on my nerves and pretty much did what they had to do. I would have liked to see a little more elaboration regarding Irvine's past though but presumably the limited running time ended up being an obstacle.

One Piece.

Finished the Arlong arc (44). For a show that hasn't been too serious nor too sophisticated, I think it managed to reach a respectable emotional climax. Admittedly, the best moments preceded the actual fights but there were still a couple of satisfying turns and the epilogue was appropriate. It's all formulaic enough, no question, but at least there's an underlying sense of direction that other similar stories seem to lack. In other words, the original creator probably does have more of a plan in mind than Toriyama did back in the day. If I'm going to watch one series of this type after years of disinterest in the genre, One Piece does seem like the best choice right now. As long as it remains entertaining, I suppose I'll continue watching.

[reeoyuy]

Haha, thanks Seraphic, but it's alright, I don't mind debating. I just hate it when someone tells me what my standards are, and even if they are a bit high, it's like I said... I refuse to settle. I want excellence at all times.

Anyway, I'm going to finish Wing... I'm only 14 episodes in, but I'll finish the series (including Endless Waltz)... it may just come at a slower pace.

Alright, chill down man. Did you see how I was giving you advice like an old man on my previous posts but acting like a dick on my last post? I was just following your example on exaggerating things. Man, you're an easy bait . And no, I'm not 12, not feeling sad right now, and never proud of finishing Destiny. And yes, I read ALL your comments to the point I found contradiction on them:

Also, I didn't hate every single mecha from Geass, I even mentioned that I liked the Lancelot and the Gawain... how quickly you overlook that (can't say I'm surprised)

When is that exactly?

All of them are pretty much hideous aside from the purple one with the face pain, the name escapes me at the moment. But yeah, other than that they all mirror each other and I hate how they don't walk or run, but rely on those rollerblade things.

Yeah, the Guren is hideous... I think the only mecha I liked from Geass was the one Zero operated towards the end, the second version of the Gawain. I can't think of the name, though.

Shinkirou is not Gawain and I don't remember Lancelot being purple (I'm acting like a dick one more time here ).

OK, sorry for the ruckus everyone. I just felt like discarding a series halfway is wrong, no matter how bad it is. Not that it's an achievement to boast to finish something I don't like, but think of it as spiritual journey. If I can't finished something even what I have to do is just to sit and watch, what about something that I have to get more involved in? Say what you want but that's what I believe.

Anyway, Tetra. What I really want to say is that your standard is too high to enjoy things. It's not about how high you set it, but how you deal with it. It's your choice if you want to get frustrated (by seeking for excellence at all times) or entertained like, well, how we treat anime as it should be. I'll repeat my (a bit preachy) advice:

I think you should have more tolerance when dealing with older series, considering that trends and fans demand are much different than what we have today. Things like pacing and storytelling is evolving over time, changed when something groundbreaking influenced the whole industry. And of course, fans preference changes too.

[TetraVaal]

Did you see how I was giving you advice like an old man on my previous posts but acting like a dick on my last post? I was just following your example on exaggerating things. Man, you're an easy bait

An easy bait to what, exactly? If you're trying to imply that you baited me into some anger-driven response, then you're still wrong.

And no, I'm not 12, not feeling sad right now, and never proud of finishing Destiny. And yes, I read ALL your comments to the point I found contradiction on them:

Well now that I know you're not 12, one has to question maturity issues, since you need to "bait someone" into whatever it was you were trying to bait them into. You then fall back on that statement, by trying to say I exaggerate things... what exactly do I exaggerate? I've listed reasonable examples as to why I dislike Gundam SEED. I think you're just fumbling over your own words at this point. Also, why say that you're not proud of finishing Destiny, only to attempt to bust my balls over not finishing SEED? You're extremely fickle. One minute your pounding your chest, 'cause you're oh-so-cool that you finished some forgetable anime series, the next you're basically admitting you wasted your time.

When is that exactly?

It's actually in that same thread where you quoted these recent posts of mine (it was months ago, when I was posting about my thoughts on Geass as a collective series). I mentioned that I liked the Lancelot's pilot (though, it was to be interpreted that I enjoyed the Lancelot as well), I even had trouble at the time remembering the name of the pilot, til' someone reminded me of the kick that the Lancelot itself does. There's no contradiction here, this is you just jumping to conclusions without asking "Hey, when exactly did you say you liked the Lancelot?" Regardless, I listed a couple of mechas from Geass that I enjoyed to enough of an extent that it negated your previous statement.

Shinkirou is not Gawain and I don't remember Lancelot being purple (I'm acting like a dick one more time here ).

...The Shinkirou still bears a resemblence to the Gawain, but had enough differences that made it stand out and look a lot better than its previous design. I don't really know what you were trying to accomplish with that statement. Oh, and I'm sure acting like a dick will be the peak of this coming week for you... again, would you like some sort of accolade for flexing your internet muscles on a message board geared towards fictional entertainment? Are you sure you're not 12?

I just felt like discarding a series halfway is wrong, no matter how bad it is.

This is entertainment, not a recreational activity... I don't care if you feel like not finishing a series is wrong. I'm not you. You're not me. You're just some "kid" who's having a petulant outburst because I didn't finish a crappy piece of entertainment. I guess it's safe to say that you actually are crying at this point.

Say what you want but that's what I believe.

Man, that is some deep philosophy there... especially for fictional ENTERTAINMENT. I think you may have managed to provoke a tear from my eye ducts.

What I really want to say is that your standard is too high to enjoy things.

CORRECTION: My standards are too high to enjoy what YOU enjoy. Even with the standards I set for myself, I've been able to find enjoyment in lots of things, not strictly limited to entertainment purposes. Again, you're in no position to be passing judgment off on my standards, when you're criticizing me for not finishing one show, a show that is not only deemed terrible by myself.

It's your choice if you want to get frustrated (by seeking for excellence at all times) or entertained like, well, how we treat anime as it should be. I'll repeat my (a bit preachy) advice:

Entertainment does not frustrate me, it's escapism. Just because I set a bar high for how I want to be entertained, doesn't mean I get upset to the point that I feel a show like SEED is going to ruin my days, nights, or weeks. I've certainly wasted my time on lesser things. Oh, and you can save the preaching... you're a user that I simply cannot take serious on here, sorry.

[Mu La Flaga]

You know my point before was not to force him to finish it.
But his crredibility for liking or not liking a show isn't really valid if he hasn't seen the whole thing in it's entirety.

It's what I do.
So then I can stamp down my final opinion there and then.

Some series don't have the best starts(SEED) and some have great starts(Destiny)