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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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1-4-4 wrote:
And isn't that reason enough, if I'm discarding canon and deciding for myself what the machine represents? :)

Fair enough, but you'd probably need to discard the existing Cold Climate Type and imagine a new one based on the GM Command. That actually sounds like a viable kitbash - I'm sure the backpacks must be interchangeable...

Quote:
I've been curious lately about the early development of the Zaku design. As drawn by Okawara, I mean. Between 1979 and 1984 (MS-X, Skiure lineart, etc.) it took on a bunch of bulk in the legs.

Huh, can't say I'd ever thought about it! Are the proportions really that different? It's possible that the MSV style was influenced by the way Yas depicted it in the animation - after all, Yas did redesign a lot of the TV series mobile suits (notably the Dom and Gogg) to give them more interesting proportions.


OYW Fan wrote:
I've been wondering, about quite a number of things, one being Pegasus class ships, well one in particular, White Base Jr. Has there ever been any pictures or descriptions of it? I believe it's the only one that has never been explained so I was curious about it. Since we're on the topic of ships, I wanted to know if there is any information on Himalaya class ships? These aircraft carriers were known as "The Whale of the EF", so I'm wondering just how large they were and if they could carry MS if needed to?

Off the top of my head, I don't think I have any information on these, but I'll see what I can turn up.

Quote:
This leads me to questions on EF bases. Where were the EFF installations on earth? Obviously I know of Jaburo, California Base, Belfast, and Torrington and their locations, and although I'm sure I've heard of others, they don't seem to be showing up in my attempts to uncover them. The only other two I've heard about were Augusta, which I'm guessing is in Maine, and New Bern, which Mark once told me about, the he believes is probably in North Carolina.

The Augusta base is on the Clark Hill Reservoir, near Augusta, Georgia, and the Japanese sources claim that it remained behind Federation lines throughout the war. (Which requires us to radically redraw our maps of wartime North America!) This seems fairly close to the New Bern base mentioned in the Blue Destiny novels, though.

What else do we have? The MSV books claim that the Federation launched its North American counteroffensive from bases in Alaska and Panama, and that Operation Odessa was launched from Belfast, Ireland and Norrkoping, Sweden. (I think Entertainment Bible 39 has its own set of claims on this score.) Recently, there's been some mention of a major base in Madras, India, to which the Kojima Battalion is supposed to report, and in Rise From the Ashes the Federation has a bunch of larger Australian bases in addition to the insignificant backwater post at Torrington.

Let me get back to you on the other questions - gotta go!

-- Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:26 am 
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Alright, thanks Mark. :D Augusta, Georgia!? Really!? That certainly is odd. So all of the US was under Zeon control except for North Carolina and Georgia? Odd... I hope you might go into more detail about that, cause it seems like a juicy bit of information.

So I'm guessing you don't know what the aircraft shown in the BD manga is? My only guesses are an FF-4 Toriares, an FF-6 TIN Cod, an FF-3 Saberfish, or maybe even a Flatmouse. Great names for fighter jets by the way. I bet just hearing the sound of those names struck fear into the hearts of Zeon soldiers everywhere. :roll:

You're really helping me out Mark, and keeping me super interested in Mobile Suit Gundam again. I've still got plenty more to ask, but I want to wait and see if you're able to dig up more information to these questions before I ask you even more. Just a few questions at a time, haha.

This one goes out to anyone who might be able to contribute; does anyone know of a site that may have pictures and information on all the characters of MSG in an organized fashion? Particularly between the years 0079-0081? Like maybe bios from Giren's Greed? I just have always searched for a site like MAHQ, with the characters of MSG instead.

Anyways, if anyone might be able to help me, that would be most excellent. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:08 am 
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toysdream wrote:
1-4-4 wrote:
And isn't that reason enough, if I'm discarding canon and deciding for myself what the machine represents? :)

Fair enough, but you'd probably need to discard the existing Cold Climate Type and imagine a new one based on the GM Command. That actually sounds like a viable kitbash - I'm sure the backpacks must be interchangeable...


The GM Cold and GM Command are actually very similar to begin with...

Quote:
Quote:
I've been curious lately about the early development of the Zaku design. As drawn by Okawara, I mean. Between 1979 and 1984 (MS-X, Skiure lineart, etc.) it took on a bunch of bulk in the legs.

Huh, can't say I'd ever thought about it! Are the proportions really that different?


I'd say so. In the original lineart the legs are actually pretty slight, hardly any bulge to them at all (except for the "sag" in the back). In the MS-X lineart the lower legs are pretty huge. The change stuck, and just about every Zaku since has had the bulky legs - though starting with the MG Zaku v2.0 I think they've been trying to get the look of the slim legs while still keeping them bulky...

Quote:
It's possible that the MSV style was influenced by the way Yas depicted it in the animation - after all, Yas did redesign a lot of the TV series mobile suits (notably the Dom and Gogg) to give them more interesting proportions.


Interesting... It's hard to nail down specifics of the design from the anime - and I think there probably must be a couple shots in there that would fit the bulky-leg look, and a lot more that are much closer to the lineart's "saggy, slender" look. For instance, from episode 10 (timestamps if you've got the episode handy and want to play along...)
  • 16:00: Recycled shot from episode 1. Zaku's looking at the Gundam after Char's fired a bazooka round at him. Anyway, this shot is very much in the style of the lineart. The lower legs seem to hardly have any substance at all.
  • A few seconds later: Another recycled shot from episode 1, Zaku avoiding Vulcan fire. Legs have a little more "bulge" to 'em, kind of like the 1:100 Zaku. I don't think it approaches the level of the MS-X Zaku...
  • 16:32: Zaku head-shot. Lower leg seems as narrow as (or narrower than) upper leg, as the Zaku does its little pirouette

The Zaku does vary considerably between different shots, so one battle from one episode is kind of a small sample. Still, I don't think the bulky legs were part of the design in the original anime. I'm not sure about the movies: I haven't seen them enough to know where to find bits of movie-specific Zaku animation. (I know there's one bit in movie 3, at around 1:54:21 - the comedy bit with one Zaku pushing his subordinate out into battle - and then Zakus fighting Guncannons. There's not a very good front-view of the Zaku legs in any of those shots. From the side views we get the legs seem pretty stocky, though. IIRC there's also a pretty good shot of a Zaku descending on Jaburo in the second film...)

(EDIT): Oh, and where can I find information about the changes Yas made to the mecha designs? Are his changes part of the lineart, or just in the anime? If they are part of the lineart, is there lineart of how the machines looked before his influence?


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:34 pm 
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Catching up on OYW Fan's questions...

White Base Junior: This ship was eventually commissioned as the White Base II, and it shows up in the "Char's Deleted Affair" comic under that name. According to CDA, it looks just like the original White Base.

Himalaya class: According to the Gundam Officials encyclopedia, this is actually based on the 20th-century Minsk-class aircraft carrier, which would make it about 270 meters long. Like the Minsk class, it's more like a hybrid cruiser/carrier than a pure carrier, and it's specialized for anti-submarine warfare. It's said to be able to carry 26-30 Don Escargo anti-submarine planes, but there's never been any mention of it carrying mobile suits.

Amy's plane: This appears to be an original design for the Blue Destiny manga. It combines elements of various Core Fighter series aircraft, including the apocryphal Fly Arrow from Gundam Century, but it doesn't quite match any of them.

Satellites: These would probably be fairly useful despite Minovsky particle interference. But the Zeons apparently destroyed and disabled a lot of them early in the war - by some accounts, they destroyed a lot of the Federation's solar power satellites too.


North American Front: Yeah, this is very mysterious. It still seems weird to me that the Augusta region could have escaped Zeon occupation for all that time, not to mention that the White Base would fly right over friendly territory and fight its way through the Zeon-occupied bits.

On the other hand, the choice of New Bern seems fairly reasonable as a staging point for the Federation's North American counteroffensive. It's close to the coast, right in the middle of the eastern seaboard, so it would be pretty easy for the Federation to ship forces there from Europe. The fact that it's accessible from the sea also means it can be attacked by amphibious mobile suits, as per the Blue Destiny video game. :-)

One possible theory that occurs to me is that the Federation actually launched its North American campaign fairly early on, right after Garma's death, but focused its efforts on the east coast which was directly controlled by Garma's forces. The Augusta base would be established at this point, close to the frontlines, which still gives it time to develop a couple of high-tech mobile suits before the end of the war. After that, the Federation begins the second phase of its North American campaign, sweeping down from Alaska and up from Panama to capture the California Base as per the MSV books, and finishing up by clearing the last few remnants out of Cape Canaveral. This two-stage theory would explain why the campaign maps in the MSV books don't show any Federation movement into the northeast corner of the United States: they'd already taken care of it!


1-4-4 wrote:
Oh, and where can I find information about the changes Yas made to the mecha designs? Are his changes part of the lineart, or just in the anime? If they are part of the lineart, is there lineart of how the machines looked before his influence?

Yas's changes are in the actual lineart. I believe he actually did the final drafts of the Gundam and Guncannon, and in the case of the Dom and Gogg, Okawara's versions have been widely published as well so you can compare them to Yas's bulked-up final drafts.

You can see before-and-after images of the Dom and Gogg lineart here.

-- Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:04 pm 
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"One possible theory that occurs to me is that the Federation actually launched its North American campaign fairly early on, right after Garma's death, but focused its efforts on the east coast which was directly controlled by Garma's forces. The Augusta base would be established at this point, close to the frontlines, which still gives it time to develop a couple of high-tech mobile suits before the end of the war. After that, the Federation begins the second phase of its North American campaign, sweeping down from Alaska and up from Panama to capture the California Base as per the MSV books, and finishing up by clearing the last few remnants out of Cape Canaveral. This two-stage theory would explain why the campaign maps in the MSV books don't show any Federation movement into the northeast corner of the United States: they'd already taken care of it!"

If that is the case, and the NA Campaign began shortly after Garma's death, then they must have began it without mobile suits. Looking back on all the information, the only way there could have been MS used this early, is if they deployed the initial run of 42 RGM-79A GM's that were just sitting around at Jaburo. If that is truly the case, then the deployment was earlier than what sources say, that helped you create your timeline.

So since were back on discussing MS' and where they should be and at what time, the Blue Destiny manga as well as MS Igloo have helped me pinpoint the exact roll-out date for those initial 42 from Jaburo, and the ones they continued to produce at U.C. 0079.11.08 going into 09 is the date I've come up with. I believe, that day, with good word coming in that Operation Odessa was appearing successful and that it would most likely end in victory, the Federation began a mass deployment of the RGM-79. I believe a handful ended up in Europe, for mopping up operations, others shipped off to Australia in preparation for the offensive, and some possibly launched directly into space with ships leaving Jaburo. More than likely, the Federation sent word to deploy MS completed at Luna II. I came up with this date thanks to two things I found in your timeline Mark.

U.C. 0079.11 (MID)
The 11th Autonomous Mechanized Composite Corps stages a night raid on a Zeon base and battles the RX-79BD-1 Blue Destiny. (The Blue Destiny)* Source: The Gundam Chronicles Ver.2. This battle takes place in Europe following the completion of Operation Odessa. See footnote 9: The Blue Destiny.

Though not a date, it confirmed there were RGM-79s in Europe, clearly on clean-up duty after Odessa concluded. Then this topped it off...

U.C. 0079.11.09
The Principality's 603rd Technical Evaluation Unit descends to Earth orbit to assist Principality forces escaping from Odessa. (MS Igloo: The Hidden One Year War episode 3)
* Source: HG Universal Century EMS-10 Zudah manual. The Federation Forces lose a total of six mobile suits and four mobile pods in this engagement.

So there you have it; roughly an exact date. This really helps me understand everything a whole lot more for me. Anyways, I still have more questions...


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:56 pm 
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OYW Fan wrote:
If that is the case, and the NA Campaign began shortly after Garma's death, then they must have began it without mobile suits.

Oh, definitely. Even in the campaign against the California Base, the Federation only deployed mobile suits relatively late in the operation - about a month after it began - and then in small quantities. The MSV books indicate that the Federation began its North American offensive soon after Garma's death, taking advantage of the chaos this created in the Zeon ranks, so whatever the details, they must have done a lot of the early fighting with conventional forces.

So if the march toward the California Base began without mobile suits, then any earlier campaigns - like the northeastern one I'm speculating about - definitely wouldn't have used them.

Quote:
I believe, that day, with good word coming in that Operation Odessa was appearing successful and that it would most likely end in victory, the Federation began a mass deployment of the RGM-79.

You're making a good case here! Personally, I'd be just as happy to assume that the post-Odessa mopping-up operation we see in Blue Destiny was conducted with leftover RGM-79(G) units, but that still leaves me at a loss to explain the standard RGM-79 units that show up to fight the Zudah team in orbit. I suppose the Master Archive writers would point to this as evidence of the RGM-79A being used in space, and it's tough to argue with that. :-)

-- Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:21 pm 
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So I saw a name I'd never heard of before yesterday, Frederick Brown. I was wondering if there are any pictures of him, and if you knew any details about him?

I'm also wondering about Eric Blanke. It says he's 20 years old in 0081, so he was either 18 or 19 in 0079, depending on his birthday. This leads me to wonder, how does such a young man become an MS pilot? He clearly has a personalized Zaku 1, so this should mean he was piloting at possibly 16 or 17? Unless however he was given such an outdated suit due to Zeon MS shortages. I could understand if he was just one of the late recruits due to the shortage on man power, but that Zaku of his makes me think otherwise. So my question is, was he a late war recruit?

Lastly, who is Takashi Kitamoto? It has him listed as a pilot for the FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundam, but I've never heard of him. Would love to hear some info! Thanks!


Last edited by OYW Fan on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Mark wrote:
You're making a good case here! Personally, I'd be just as happy to assume that the post-Odessa mopping-up operation we see in Blue Destiny was conducted with leftover RGM-79(G) units, but that still leaves me at a loss to explain the standard RGM-79 units that show up to fight the Zudah team in orbit. I suppose the Master Archive writers would point to this as evidence of the RGM-79A being used in space, and it's tough to argue with that. :)


Jumping in with a related question, what is the current status on MS getting used in Odesssa itself? I remember back in the day they were said to have had no impact on the battle, with only 15 being used late in operation (Seemingly after the Federals broke through Zeon lines) and basically having no impact (IIRC, destroying four Zeon MS and 22 tanks). MSG itself obviously doesn't show any GM's in action, but IGLOO apparently has quite a number of RGM-79[G]'s involved in the heart of the battle, so what is the case there? Are they involved, or did only certain units in the attack have them (Which could be why we don't see any in MSG, only certain divisions got GMs and others made do with masses of Type 61's) or is this turning into another case of their being various accounts of the battle with changing and/or (Seemingly) contradicting details going back many years like Loum?

OYW Fan wrote:
So I saw a name I'd never heard of before yesterday. Frederick Brown? Was wondering if there are any pictures of him, and if you knew any details about him?


Frederick Brown (Also sometimes translated as Federic Braun, I'm not sure which is more up-to-date, probably Brown) was the main character of Kondo's first manga, MS Senki. Other than being a young Zeon pilot, I can't tell you much more official-y info on him, as I've heard conflicting stuff over the years. For what it's worth, he appears in several volumes of Kondo's 0079 manga that was released over here way back when (Which is where I got the Braun name from).

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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:06 pm 
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OYW Fan wrote:
So I saw a name I'd never heard of before yesterday, Frederick Brown. I was wondering if there are any pictures of him, and if you knew any details about him?


mcred already fielded this one. In the original MS Senki comic, which was scripted by Gundam Sentinel writer Masaya Takahashi, he's basically a student recruit who gets ground up in the battlefield. In Kondo's later stories, he's an immortal super-badass who keeps showing up to thrash the stupid Feddies. This is what happens when you let artists write their own material. :-)

Quote:
I'm also wondering about Eric Blanke. It says he's 20 years old in 0081, so he was either 18 or 19 in 0079, depending on his birthday. This leads me to wonder, how does such a young man become an MS pilot?


They just gave him a flashback story in Gundam Ace, which shows him piloting a Gelgoog in the Battle of A Baoa Qu, so the Zaku I must have been a post-war substitute. Apparently, Erik is from one of Zeon's aristocratic families, which presumably accounts for his preposterously high rank.

Quote:
Lastly, who is Takashi Kitamoto? It has him listed as a pilot for the FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundam, but I've never heard of him. Would love to hear some info! Thanks!


He shows up in the "Spirits of Zeon" arcade game. Apparently he's a former space fighter pilot who comes from Side 7, and lost his family in the Zeon attack.


mcred23 wrote:
Jumping in with a related question, what is the current status on MS getting used in Odesssa itself?


Um, confused? Not unlike, as you noted, the current status of the Battle of Loum. :-)

First, here's the original reference from Entertainment Bible 39...

Quote:
Especially noteworthy is the fact that the Federation Forces introduced mass-produced mobile suits into combat, albeit in small numbers. A total of 30 RGM-79 GM units that had been loaded with RX-78 combat data were experimentally deployed.

In order to keep them secret from Zeon, these mobile suit forces were stationed at the rear, but it is nonetheless reported that they destroyed 21 fighting vehicles and four mobile suits. On the other hand, due to a succession of mechanical problems, it is said that only 15 or so of these 30 machines were able to properly conduct combat operations.


This really doesn't sound much like what we see in MS Igloo 2, where we see RGM-79(G) teams rushing into the frontlines and exchanging fire with Zeon mobile suits. What's more, the GM Ground Type had already been in service with the Kojima Battalion for more than a month at this point, so it seems odd that this would be an "experimental deployment" subject to massive mechanical problems. And finally, I've never heard anything about the GM Ground Type being loaded with RX-78 combat data!

But while MS Igloo 2, 08th MS Team, and comics like the ongoing "MS Boys" (by Blue Destiny artist Mizuho Takayama) keep showing the RGM-79(G) fighting at the frontlines of Odessa, there are also plenty of sources that show standard RGM-79 units hanging around behind the lines and mopping up after the battle. OYW Fan already mentioned the standard GM units conducting post-Odessa sweeps in the Blue Destiny comic; we see this again in MS Boys, with standard GM units engaging retreating Zeons in a battle datelined November 11. A lot of video game cut scenes also show standard GM units loitering around General Revil's Big Tray, and we see the same thing in the Lost War Chronicles manga.

So let me offer another heretical theory: What if both accounts are true? The Federation's RGM-79(G) forces, which are no longer a military secret and can no longer be updated or repaired, are thrown into the front lines to take the brunt of the Zeon counterattack. Meanwhile the shiny new RGM-79, freshly updated with RX-78 combat data but still struggling with technical problems that leave half the units inoperable, is held back to guard the Federation's command facilities and then deployed in earnest to handle the cleanup.


What does this tell us in terms of dates, then? Well, the combat deployment of the RGM-79(G) still begins in late September. Somewhere along the way, probably in October, these machines are deployed in the European offensive as well - and, according to Lost War Chronicles, they're also used by special forces teams for decoy missions elsewhere in the world. The remaining units in Europe are thrown into the frontlines at Odessa, and a lot of them are wiped out.

Meanwhile, in October, the Federation switches over its production lines and begins full-scale mass production of the standard RGM-79 GM. (Starting with the A type, according to the Master Archive, and then switching over to the B type as Gundam combat data becomes available.) These machines are experimentally deployed behind Federation lines during Operation Odessa, nonetheless managing to take down a handful of Zeon tanks and mobile suits, and then enter combat in earnest in mid November. (Our earliest concrete date is November 11, which is the first day of the 中旬, or "mid-month," chunk of the calendar.)

Finally, in late November, the Federation Forces begin full-scale deployment of the standard RGM-79 GM. I'm not sure which areas received GMs before this point, and which received them after; obviously Europe had them earlier, and they don't appear in Australia until after this point, but the situation in North America is anyone's guess. I'm pretty sure, though, based on the writeup in Entertainment Bible 39, that the Federation doesn't deploy mobile suits in Africa until the start of the mopping-up operation on December 5.

-- Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:25 pm 
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I saw the cover of I guess an issue of MS Boys when I was looking for character illustrations. I was wondering what that's about?

Would anyone know where I could find character illustrations or profiles from any of the Giren's Greed/Ambition games? I know of the ones from the now extinct Library of Londenion, but I once recall someone undertaking the effort to screen capture each pilot/character bio. Many of the O.Y.W. aces seem to have gotten their first depiction from this series. Anyways, I figured somewhere on this big crazy internet there might be some, which would be a great help to me.

Lastly, Mark, I know you probably get this all the time, but is there a place hosting you MS illustrations anymore? If not, I was wondering if you still had them, if there's someway I could get them off you? If not, I understand, but I would be extremely grateful.


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:07 am 
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OYW Fan wrote:
Lastly, Mark, I know you probably get this all the time, but is there a place hosting you MS illustrations anymore? If not, I was wondering if you still had them, if there's someway I could get them off you? If not, I understand, but I would be extremely grateful.

The Wayback Machine/Web Archive of the original location still works.

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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Thanks Wingnut. I have only one problem with that site, and that's how slow it loads.

So I came across this yesterday: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kazat0/e/b819f543782e0306ce61d6616ee2a88d, anyone know who these characters might be? I'm guessing those numbers by them are their age. Looks like there's more kids added to the O.Y.W., but anyways if anyone who could help me out, that'd be awesome. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:05 pm 
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It's from this game, so it's not official even if they did add more kids.

And the numbers are not ages, since they change in different operations. Like the person at the top went from 22 in day 45, to 18 in day 58. I think it's how long they've had their current Mobile Suits.


EDIT: I was looking through the game's site and found this, looks like a Pegasus class that is/looks exactly like White Base had some GM Kais on the date of the GM's full-scale deployment in this game.

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ARTHUR: Good God, that’s almost a hundred-percent!


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Thank you, RGM-79G GM Command. I see, I guess it's a Gundam MMORPG for the PC. Seems sort of cool.

As for that picture of a Pegasus Class, that could possibly be the White Base Jr.! Good job finding that! I had asked Mark if he had any info on it previously in the thread, and the only thing he could come up with, is that it looked identical to White Base. The Pegasus there appears extremely close to the White Base, if not identical, so that's my guess as to what it is.

So this game, is by no means official? It certainly can't be, if the page from which you got that picture from is a timeline because the date are so far off from what is considered canon.


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:40 pm 
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:shock: Hadn't even thought about the White Base Jr.

Anyway, most/all games aren't canon at all, the only one I can think of that might be is Gundam Side Story for the DC, reason being that it's listed in the Gundam official timeline on 0079.11.25, but I'd say even that's iffy at best since they said before only the animated stuff is canon.

But technically the date on it doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, it's just that since it wasn't an animated show or anything I don't think it would be counted. But that date is just the full-scale deployment of the RGM-79 GM, it shouldn't be when it (Or the GM Kai.) was actually first used.

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ARTHUR: Good God, that’s almost a hundred-percent!


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Yeah, since the multiplayer online game lets you make your own characters and so forth, nothing in it could be considered even remotely official. Likewise for that game screen that GM Command found; it reports complete victory for the Federation Forces and the end of the war, datelined November 20. This just means that somebody managed to finish up the game well ahead of the historical schedule. :-)

-- Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Elitist Earth Politician
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Location: RGM-89J Jegan cockpit.
Well, that's what I get for not being able to read Japanese. :P I figured they were cheering over winning a battle around that time or something. Now I'm wondering if that is White Base, and more importantly, how it would have gotten there. >_<

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Thundermuffin's TEGSD: MEYRIN: Ma’am! The Archangel has arrived and launched a giant, man-shaped robot at us! Likelihood of it being a mobile-suit… (Meyrin does some quick calculations on her console)…ninety-nine point eight percent!
ARTHUR: Good God, that’s almost a hundred-percent!


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Hey Mark, I did some research, and aircraft carriers could easily hold Mobile Suits, in-fact more than just one, though I'm sure you're aware of this. It turns out most aircraft, if stood-up, would be the same size as a standing mobile suit. Some are a meter taller, while others are a meter smaller, but all are around that size. If the Federation needed to, Himalaya Class ships could transport whole squads of MS around the globe!

Alright, this is a whopper. I don't know if anyone will be able to do it. Maybe it's already been done somewhere though...

I'm trying to figure out all of the EFF MS squad names/numbers. For instance we all know the Kojima Battalion and all it's team numbers. How about the White Dingos though? Does anyone know what Battalion/Mechanized Corps they're part of?

The 11th Mechanized Corps is from the Blue Destiny Game/Manga, and from what Mark once told me they're self sufficient. That's the kinda info I'm looking for, as well as the unit's insignia if they have one. I'm sure I know more, but it seems I've forgotten a bunch aside from the ones I mentioned, so if anyone can help me out, that'd be great.


Last edited by OYW Fan on Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:15 pm 
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Frederik Braun also makes an appearance in the Revival of Zeon manga, oddly enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Random OYW Questions
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:30 pm 
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OYW Fan wrote:
I'm trying to figure out all of the EFF MS squad names/numbers. For instance we all know the Kojima Battalion and all it's team numbers. How about the White Dingos though? Does anyone know what Battalion/Mechanized Corps they're part of?

The 11th Mechanized Corps is from the Blue Destiny Game/Manga, and from what Mark once told me they're self sufficient. That's the kinda info I'm looking for, as well as the unit's insignia if they have one. I'm sure I know more, but it seems I've forgotten a bunch aside from the ones I mentioned, so if anyone can help me out, that'd be great.

There isn't really a consistent organizational scheme used throughout the entire Federation Forces, or even within the ground forces. During the One Year War, it seems like the Federation Ground Force always incorporates its mobile suits into "mechanized composite" units that include various supporting elements - infantry, tanks, maintenance and transportation teams, etc.

In some cases, these are miniature units that include a single team of mobile suits, a couple of transport planes, maybe a hovertruck or two, and a skeleton crew of support personnel. These are usually labeled as "Independent Mechanized Composite Corps," like the one in Blue Destiny or the SRT Unit from the MS Frontline 0079 game. If these components are larger in size they might be grouped under a larger organization level; for example, the Kojima Battalion (formally known as the "Far East Forces Mechanized Composite Battalion") includes two companies of mobile suits, one company of anti-MS infantry, a headquarters company, and a bunch of maintenance and supply companies.

In MS Igloo 2, the protagonists belong to the 44th Mechanized Composite Regiment, which starts out with a bunch of tanks and is later renamed the 44th Independent Composite Brigade after it receives some mobile suit teams. (This is discussed in numbing detail in this thread.) The 41st and 50th Independent Composite Brigades also participate in Operation Odessa. In terms of their mobile suit forces, these groups appear to be similar in scale to the Kojima Battalion, but they also have a bunch of tanks. The point is that, as far as the Federation Ground Force is concerned, there aren't really any pure mobile suit units; to a greater or lesser extent, they're always bundled together with conventional forces and support elements.


According to the Lost War Chronicles novelization, this "mechanized" moniker is phased out during the latter part of the war, and the Federation Forces start officially labeling things as mobile suit units. One example is the White Dingo team, which is designated as "Australian Forces Special MS Commandos". Another is the Federation team from Lost War Chronicles, which is "MS Special Forces, 3rd Team". Presumably, this reflects the reduced need for secrecy and the increased importance of the mobile suit relative to conventional weapons.

Incidentally, the "Commando" term used for the White Dingos is also employed by self-sufficient Zeon units like Ramba Ral's team, the ”foreign legion" team from Lost War Chronicles, and the 22nd MS Special Commandos from MS Boys. (The "Ramba Ral Commando Set" from the UC Hard Graph series designates this unit as the "Ramba Ral Independent Commandos," adding that it consists of one team of mobile suits and one company of mechanized infantry.) So it's possible that the Federation is simply copying Zeon terminology here.


As for the space forces, that's discussed a bit in this thread. In a nutshell, the mobile suits report directly to their parent ship and its fleet hierarchy, and don't belong to any kind of separate command structure.

Whew! I hope that answers at least some of your questions. :-)

-- Mark


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