The Official Gundam 00 Anything Thread Mk VIII

[Resident of GMT-5]

I doubt anyone here remembered that I had created a topic (around two years back) regarding the possibilities of aliens being incorporated into a Gundam series. I was thoroughly amused when I saw the movie. There, it wasn't a 'human-like but not' alien, but it was the genuinely weird one. The battles were over the top, though not in TTGL way. I must also note the Gundam Lagann scene .

Spoiler

On a side note, I must say that I'm a wee bit annoyed because of their misleading about Descartes. I seriously thought he would last at least till the second half of the movie but noo..

[SonicSP]

Yeah, it kind of fooled all of us but I think the purpose was they really wanted to hide the aliens all until the end by pinning the "villain face" on Descartes. Serves us right for thinking a Lindt lookalike would last long. Still, he "technically" was involved in the first attack againts the ELS, which is always a bad thing in diplomacy. (although I think the ELS would have tried to assimiliate us anyways when they were on their way)

I mean, the alien thing has been speculated ever since the end of S2 since S2 too did have an alien theme to it at the end (the war in S2 was about which type of humanity will face them), minus their actual appearance and encounter. But the actual confirmation never arrived until they handed out those "puzzle cards" only a few months before the movie which revealed what the acronym ELS (flashed in a recent trailer then) actually meant.

I'm glad the ELS played out the way they did. I wished they resorted to ranged attacks like in the last battle sooner though. Would have been cool if they assimiliated and deployed more MS models other than the GN-X IV and would have done them even earlier but I think the smaller teams fighting them would have trouble if they did.

I find it funny that some of the ELS remind me of the GN-X III's GN Lance while soome others remind me of the Gadessa's GN Launcher..........>__>

[Gatx]

Made an account just to throw in my 2 cents about the movie.

I was actually pretty disappointed in the movie. The quality of the animation, at least the 2D stuff was okay but it wasn't a dramatic departure from the show, which was disappointing, though I guess the massive numbers of ELS were impressive (though on the other hand, the series finale featured the similarly numerous Gagas. Compare this to the Haruhi movie (whatever your feelings may be about the series), which was an incredible step up from the series. This movie just kind of felt more like a really long season finale. I will admit however, that the short sequence explaining the ELS's backstory was absolutely gorgeous.

As for the aliens, while I did enjoy the fact that the aliens were, well, alien, they were handled in a cliche way. The whole, first contact beings misconstrued as a hostile act thing happened in Ender's Game, and Macross Frontier. I also thought it was much too early, and plot wise, almost too convenient. Even the mere mention of aliens in the series was pretty groundbreaking (ignoring Jupiter whale fossil from SEED). Given the whole quantum brainwaves thing and the whole emphasis on understanding one another in the finale of the series, I guess imagined the aliens appearance would be more like "Contact" than "Independence Day", though in the end it did end peacefully. Introducing them so soon feels kind of like a cheap cash-in on the hype.

The battles on the other hand . . while beam spam is cool on a superficial level (like in SEED/Destiny), it does get kind of old. The Gundams, minus 00 Qan[T], ALL seemed to have the ability to fire from 360 degrees, had some kind of heavy beam weapon, and had bit weapons, there wasn't much specialization anymore.

[reeoyuy]

Introducing them so soon feels kind of like a cheap cash-in on the hype.

Riding on the hype is necessary. Not just for money-making people but for us fans too. Back then when news of SEED movie around, I was so excited. But that excitement dies along with SEED hype and vanished completely with arrival of OO. I'm glad they decided to wrap up OO before new series/universe introduced.

[skyknight]

Just finished the Movie a while ago, gosh, this is not like any other Gundam I seen before. Will take some to digest of what went on for 2hrs, after 50 eps in 2 seasons.

Here's some quick thoughts:
On Setsuna

Spoiler

Kira and Shin can kiss his ass! I am not apologizing for this at all! Granted he doesn't have many spoken dialogue in the Movie, he has became the Innovator that Aeolia wanted to be. And if you were to saw the 00 series from S1 to the Movie, he has come full circle from a child soldier to become savior of all humanity. Though I wish the movie script could've been better for between him and Feldt.

On other characters

Spoiler

I thought it was nice for both Andrei and Graham to make up for their wrongs in the past, as they did come to sense of what is worth fighting for - not about personal bitterness. And Billy gets a new gal!? Has plenty of booty and much younger than Sumeragi! And a another question should arise, how are the genome/characteristics of Innovators spread? It's not just Mina looking like Nena, but the press secretary, and some other faces are seen from one scene to another stemming from the end of S2.

On the End?

Spoiler

Where does Celestial Being go on from here? With Setsuna gone for a good chunk, what do they do? And what is Feldt to do? But I do love the final scene where Setsuna pays his visit to Marina, as it finally closes the chapter between the two. I do want to hear on what others think about their relationship. For me, it is definitely not a mother-son, but something greater than nee-san - otodo (old sis - young bro), and maybe more defined than Heero/Relena?

[Kenji]

(ignoring Jupiter whale fossil from SEED)

Don't worry, SEED ignored it, too.

Spoiler

And if you were to saw the 00 series from S1 to the Movie, he has come full circle from a child soldier to become savior of all humanity. Though I wish the movie script could've been better for between him and Feldt.

I wouldn't call that "full circle" (full circle would be if he ended up just like Ali), but he certainly has come a long way.

Spoiler

And a another question should arise, how are the genome/characteristics of Innovators spread? It's not just Mina looking like Nena, but the press secretary, and some other faces are seen from one scene to another stemming from the end of S2.

Regarding Mina,

Spoiler

she's not an Innovade at all. She's the actual descendant of the woman whose genes were contributed to Nena. I have no idea what the significance of her showing up here and now is, though.

Spoiler

Where does Celestial Being go on from here? With Setsuna gone for a good chunk, what do they do? And what is Feldt to do? But I do love the final scene where Setsuna pays his visit to Marina, as it finally closes the chapter between the two. I do want to hear on what others think about their relationship. For me, it is definitely not a mother-son, but something greater than nee-san - otodo (old sis - young bro), and maybe more defined than Heero/Relena?

My guess is

Spoiler

since first contact has been successfully made and the Federation is an open and presumably just world-state, Celestial Being has nothing to do. Either they wait around, like they did between S2 and the movie, or they actually disband. As for Marina and Setsuna, I think it's pretty clear that their relationship isn't the usual shipping fodder, and it's also not as simple as a surrogate mother and the oldest orphan (though it is more similar to that). I don't think there's any need to define it more concretely than that: It's just Marina and Setsuna.

[Meteoid]

I have a question regarding the end of the Movie.

Spoiler

What happens to Tieria? His body was destroyed when Rapheal exploded but his mind remained in Veda and helped Setsuna during the final battle through a little Veda terminal right? So did he remain in Veda when Setsuna went to the ELS' world or did he stay onboard the terminal in 00 Qan[T]? I'm presuming the distance is too great for him to maintain the link and be in both places at once. And also i'm guessing that the "Tieria" floating behind the reporter on the Sumeragi was another innovade with the same body. So what happens to the "real" Tieria?

[blind_dead_mcjones]

On Setsuna

Spoiler

Kira and Shin can kiss his ass! I am not apologizing for this at all! Granted he doesn't have many spoken dialogue in the Movie, he has became the Innovator that Aeolia wanted to be. And if you were to saw the 00 series from S1 to the Movie, he has come full circle from a child soldier to become savior of all humanity. Though I wish the movie script could've been better for between him and Feldt.

i wouldn't say he's gone full circle but he has developed quite a bit, the fact that he

Spoiler

used diplomacy, a convention he flat out despised back in season 1 is rather telling as to his development, along with the fact that he actually lets some people get into physical contact with him (saji in season 2, feldt in the movie, though i'm not how much the last one counts as he had just woken up from a coma after having his brain fried, then again he had enough motor control to hug back)

On the End?

Spoiler

Where does Celestial Being go on from here? With Setsuna gone for a good chunk, what do they do? And what is Feldt to do? But I do love the final scene where Setsuna pays his visit to Marina, as it finally closes the chapter between the two. I do want to hear on what others think about their relationship. For me, it is definitely not a mother-son, but something greater than nee-san - otodo (old sis - young bro), and maybe more defined than Heero/Relena?

Spoiler

no matter which way you slice the relationship between the two it was definately platonic in nature, the way they greeted each other reminded of the way old firends would say hi when they've been out of contact for a while

speaking of which, and this is probably more a criticism of shippers in general, but why the hell do most assume that any relationship between a man and woman (or two men/two women) is always or has to be romantic/sexual in nature? when you look at the number of times one comes across

Spoiler

HUURR DUURR setsuna is banging a blind old batty marina HERP-A-DERP

you end up wondering 'gee, real mature guys'

[Shinji103]

speaking of which, and this is probably more a criticism of shippers in general, but why the hell do most assume that any relationship between a man and woman (or two men/two women) is always or has to be romantic/sexual in nature? when you look at the number of times one comes across

Spoiler

HUURR DUURR setsuna is banging a blind old batty marina HERP-A-DERP

you end up wondering 'gee, real mature guys'

I know you're not speaking of me or any SetsunaxMarina fan in any specific sense, but why are you assuming that SetsunaxMarina fans are thinking that? Sure there are probably bad apples in the batch, but that goes for fans of everything, TV shows, single characters, games, etc, and it's almost always the trolls/"perverts" (for lack of a better word) who are loudest. So I'm not sure why you think "most" assume such. I for one see this couple as the non-physical romantic type; I in no way expect or see them hopping in bed to have kids. ^^b

[blind_dead_mcjones]

speaking of which, and this is probably more a criticism of shippers in general, but why the hell do most assume that any relationship between a man and woman (or two men/two women) is always or has to be romantic/sexual in nature? when you look at the number of times one comes across

Spoiler

HUURR DUURR setsuna is banging a blind old batty marina HERP-A-DERP

you end up wondering 'gee, real mature guys'

I know you're not speaking of me or any SetsunaxMarina fan in any specific sense, but why are you assuming that SetsunaxMarina fans are thinking that? Sure there are probably bad apples in the batch, but that goes for fans of everything, TV shows, single characters, games, etc, and it's almost always the trolls/"perverts" (for lack of a better word) who are loudest. So I'm not sure why you think "most" assume such. I for one see this couple as the non-physical romantic type; I in no way expect or see them hopping in bed to have kids. ^^b

i wasn't assuming most setsunaXmarina fans think that i was using that as an example (and on reflection its probably a poor example) and like said at the beginning its was a complaint of shippers in general, not fans of a specific pairing, my apologies if i implied that was what setsunaXmarina fans thought,

you have to admit though with the sheer ammount of fan dumb and bad fanfiction out there, plus taking stugeons law into account its difficult to determine who's being serious and who's just trolling

[SonicSP]

I have a question regarding the end of the Movie.

Spoiler

What happens to Tieria? His body was destroyed when Rapheal exploded but his mind remained in Veda and helped Setsuna during the final battle through a little Veda terminal right? So did he remain in Veda when Setsuna went to the ELS' world or did he stay onboard the terminal in 00 Qan[T]? I'm presuming the distance is too great for him to maintain the link and be in both places at once. And also i'm guessing that the "Tieria" floating behind the reporter on the Sumeragi was another innovade with the same body. So what happens to the "real" Tieria?

I think he just stayed with Setsuna inside the 00 Qan(T). I guess that means Regene is left inside Veda to run things then.

Regarding pairings, I really like how Setsuna's possible relationships are potrayed differently from Saji/Louise's which is sort of almost a sure romantic scene as the series progresses but Setsuna relationships are more complicated and more subjective in nature, and possibly (but not surely either) aren't even romantic at all and it fits his character IMO. I like how they potrayed both Saji and Setsuna's relationships with their respective relationship-ees, is what I'm trying to say.

[Flame-X]

I've been a little confused on the subject of innovators.

If I'm correct, Setsuna became a purebred innovator due to being overexposed to 00 Raisor's twin drives in season 2. But how did Descartes Sherman become one? Did he just naturally evolved into that stage like a newtype? I always thought it can only happen by having the original GN drives.

Also, someone please tell me what Louise Halevy is. She's definitely not a purebred innovator or an innovade. Maybe I'm wrong but I just want a confirmation on this.

[Raiden]

I think they said in some side materials that the particles from 00 Raiser when it went Trans-Am Burst mode during the last battle spreads throughout the Earth Sphere or something to that extent. Thats what induced the natural evolution of several people and Descartes happened to evolved quicker.

As for Louise, the meds Ribbons gave her forced her develop quantum brainwaves so he could use her for his plans. I wouldn't rule out that she doesn't have potential tho (or is starting to become one) because during the movie She reacts to the ELS on Earth and starts showing her symptoms that she was supposedly cured from by the end of S2.

[SonicSP]

I've been a little confused on the subject of innovators.

If I'm correct, Setsuna became a purebred innovator due to being overexposed to 00 Raisor's twin drives in season 2. But how did Descartes Sherman become one? Did he just naturally evolved into that stage like a newtype? I always thought it can only happen by having the original GN drives.

Also, someone please tell me what Louise Halevy is. She's definitely not a purebred innovator or an innovade. Maybe I'm wrong but I just want a confirmation on this.

More precisely, 00V Senki mission 4 mentions that Innovation is induced by GN Particles when they are in Trans Am state. It doesn't particularly mention original Drives are needed just Trans Am. In fact, the way Ian puts it in the chapter make it sound like he's worried that the ESF was going to notice this fact since they too have Trans Am machines now (IE suggesting that it's possible with Tau Drives as well, otherwise he wouldn't be worried about this specific issue with the ESF having TA but no original Drives). Ribbons likely wasn't aware of the actual/specific stimuli that is needed to make a True Innovator but at least knows that the Original Twin Drives had a hand with Setsuna, which is likely a reason why he may have attempted to get both the Drives in the final episode. The final S2 novel mentioned that he wanted to mass produced powerful True Innovators that were under his control with the Original Drive(s), he was quite impressed with Setsuna's Innovation in the Reborns battle it seems.

A lot of the people who were Innovating in the movie were likely affected by the Trans Am Burst in S2, since the 00V Senki 4 mentions numerous reports of "Innovators" appearing around the world already and the movie seems to follow up with this fact. Descartes likely became one due to TAB in S2, just like a lot of other people out there. Do note that TAB effect appears to have an unlimited range according to 00V Senki 4 and since not everyone transformed, there's likely some genetic factors that make certain people more easier to become Innovators than others.

Some of the people who became Innovators by 2364 also became so due to their contact with the ELS, according to 00V Senki 15. I'm still not sure whether the ELS sped up their Innovation or they literally became one purely due to the ELS. (since the ELS likes to target people who were on their way to becoming Innovators as it is due to their high QBW levels)

As for Louise Halevy, she seems likely to be a Pseudo Innovator, which is neither an Innovade or an Innovator. The term just appeared in the recent 00V Senki Mission 15 and is used to described a breed of humans forced to transform and have QBW power to pilot machines like the Gadelaza for the non-Innovator "Old Human Faction" (IE an anti-Innovator/ELS faction consisting of natural humans, who detests the Innovators and the ELS that live in human soceity). In the future, these Pseudo Innovators were people that were forced to transform into the Pseudo Innovators by methods of super soldier R&D or whatnot, not too much different from what Ribbons was using. Ribbons did say she was going to be the first "Innovator among humans" and while the term Innovator can be confusing at this point in time (since Ribbons & co was still using them and considered themselves some, even though they know they're not), the new Pseudo Innovator term does seem to fit what she is since she's modified through means different than what makes True Innovators and yet she's not exactly an artificial mass produced humans like the Innovades either. Kinda like the Pseudo Innovators used by the Old Human Faction in the future.

On an unrelated note, the ELS were indifferent about having a faction of humans that utterly despise them. They didnt seem to care at all.

We still don't know what the Trinity siblings are though. All we know is that they were made of some Innovade DNA (Ribbons had a hand in their creation) and some of the DNA of other people including Mina Carmine's ancestors in Nena's case. But we do know they are test tube babies though which makes them sort of natural unlike the Innovades that are created straight adults. They sound a lot like Pseudo Innovators to me but it's harder to define IMO.

As for Louise, the meds Ribbons gave her forced her develop quantum brainwaves so he could use her for his plans. I wouldn't rule out that she doesn't have potential tho (or is starting to become one) because during the movie She reacts to the ELS on Earth and starts showing her symptoms that she was supposedly cured from by the end of S2.

Her reaction seems to be pretty stronger than Innovades/Super Soldiers, which suggests her QBW levels are quite high indeed. This may be because she's actually on her way to becoming a True Innovator already as you've mentioned or if my classification of her being a Pseudo Innovator is correct, than they (P-Innovators) may have quite high QBW levels in general. Considering in the future they pilot Gadelazas and that machine is designed for high QBW level people, it's not really out of the question.

Or she could be a Pseudo Innovator transforming into a True one. I think this is most probable IMO.

[Flame-X]

Wow! thanks for the detailed informative response guys. I guess it makes more sense now.

We still don't know what the Trinity siblings are though. All we know is that they were made of some Innovade DNA (Ribbons had a hand in their creation) and some of the DNA of other people including Mina Carmine's ancestors in Nena's case. But we do know they are test tube babies though which makes them sort of natural unlike the Innovades that are created straight adults. They sound a lot like Pseudo Innovators to me but it's harder to define IMO.

Oh snap I forgot about them. I don't remember the TV series explaining the Trinity's origin. So I'm assuming all that info was in the side story manga as well?

[Meteoid]

More precisely, 00V Senki mission 4 mentions that Innovation is induced by GN Particles when they are in Trans Am state. It doesn't particularly mention original Drives are needed just Trans Am. In fact, the way Ian puts it in the chapter make it sound like he's worried that the ESF was going to notice this fact since they too have Trans Am machines now (IE suggesting that it's possible with Tau Drives as well, otherwise he wouldn't be worried about this specific issue with the ESF having TA but no original Drives).......

I would guess that would mean that quite a few Celestial Being members eventually achieved innovation since they've spent the most time with Trans-Am equipped suits.

[SonicSP]

Wow! that's for the detailed informative response guys. I guess it makes more sense now.

We still don't know what the Trinity siblings are though. All we know is that they were made of some Innovade DNA (Ribbons had a hand in their creation) and some of the DNA of other people including Mina Carmine's ancestors in Nena's case. But we do know they are test tube babies though which makes them sort of natural unlike the Innovades that are created straight adults. They sound a lot like Pseudo Innovators to me but it's harder to define IMO.

Oh snap I forgot about them. I don't remember the TV series explaining the Trinity's origin. So I'm assuming all that info was in the side story manga as well?

We know very little about the Trinity's origin as it is, other than they were made partly from Innovade DNA (Ribbons specifically) and that some scientist made them. The info came from S1 Novel 1 IIRC.

A lot of the side-materials info in Gundam 00 comes from various sources, manga sidestory, novel sidestories, novel adaptations, dozens of sourcebooks, manuals, interviews. I made a habit of remembering as best as I could what comes from where but with literally dozens of sources out there, it gets hard sometimes. There's someone I know that does it better though.

We haven't even gone through all of the books, so there are probably some stuff that we don't know. For example, we the English community don't know the exact differences between the GN Particles of Original and Tau Drives up until after S2 finished airing, where one of us read and translated a part of one of an old S1 book.

More precisely, 00V Senki mission 4 mentions that Innovation is induced by GN Particles when they are in Trans Am state. It doesn't particularly mention original Drives are needed just Trans Am. In fact, the way Ian puts it in the chapter make it sound like he's worried that the ESF was going to notice this fact since they too have Trans Am machines now (IE suggesting that it's possible with Tau Drives as well, otherwise he wouldn't be worried about this specific issue with the ESF having TA but no original Drives).......

I would guess that would mean that quite a few Celestial Being members eventually achieved innovation since they've spent the most time with Trans-Am equipped suits.

That appears likely to be the case but again it's hard to tell. While we know what causes Innovation, what affects the rate is still very much a mystery. One big examples of this is Trans-Am Burst. Some people have Innovated or began Innovated around the world because of it after 2312 (00V Senki 4), however the TAB also possesses an unlimited range that pretty much affects everyone within/near Earth (or as the article puts it, "unlimited range") so the Meisters who are relatively near TAB was definitely among those affected and yet none of them have begun to show signs of Innovating as of 2314. It doesnt mean they have not gotten any "net Innovation points" so to speak, but they're not Innovating yet while some people far off (the schoolgirl from the movie for example) appears to be ahead.

So yeah, we still don't know the factors that affect "the rate of Innovation" yet. My main bet is genetics though, plus a few other unknown factors perhaps.

[Mr_SP]

That appears likely to be the case but again it's hard to tell. While we know what causes Innovation, what affects the rate is still very much a mystery. One big examples of this is Trans-Am Burst. Some people have Innovated or began Innovated around the world because of it after 2312 (00V Senki 4), however the TAB also possesses an unlimited range that pretty much affects everyone within/near Earth (or as the article puts it, "unlimited range") so the Meisters who are relatively near TAB was definitely among those affected and yet none of them have begun to show signs of Innovating as of 2314. It doesnt mean they have not gotten any "net Innovation points" so to speak, but they're not Innovating yet while some people far off (the schoolgirl from the movie for example) appears to be ahead.

So yeah, we still don't know the factors that affect "the rate of Innovation" yet. My main bet is genetics though, plus a few other unknown factors perhaps.

There's also the possibility that Allelujah, Soma and Tieria may not be able to innovate. As they are already incomplete innovators, possessing highly weakened versions of Innovator abilities, their ability to progress further into Innovators may be stalled. (see: the Artificial Newtype evolution dilemma) Indeed, Tieria shouldn't show any signs, as both bodies that he used and were exposed to GN Particles were killed. On the other hand, Ribbons called himself an Innovade who became an Innovator, surpassing both, but he might just be talking out of his ego. Lockon 2 hasn't spent any more time around Trans-am GN Particles than Saji, either.

But with the total number of innovators around 2314 to be essentially two people, with a fraction of one ten thousandth of the population showing even the slightest potential to achieve Innovation, that Ian or Feldt or Sumeragi haven't shown obvious signs of innovation isn't shocking. And even that might be an exaggeration, depending on what population each of those shelters were built to deal with. It'd take a long campaign of flooding areas with Trans-am particles to see clear results.

[teslashark]

Who is Barack? Never knew there's someone called Barack in OO.

[Strike Zero]

Who is Barack? Never knew there's someone called Barack in OO.

Barack Zinin. The guy whose Ahead Setsuna eviscarated when he upgraded to the 00 Raiser.