Super Dimension Century Orguss

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TakaTahuNuva
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Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by TakaTahuNuva » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:07 pm

Okay, I just finished this series and I have a question about the ending. Obviously, spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show yet;

So, they've been trying to reach the Daitokuiten for 35 episodes, and they finally get there a few minutes before the show ends... and then what exactly happens? You see Olson and Kei and their past versions shooting each other... and then there are glimpses of (what I guess are) alternate realities.

So does that mean they rewrote history? Everything we've seen so far has been erased? Because on one hand, you see Kei and Tina, which implies the bomb never exploded. But on the other hand, you also see Olson and Athena - who should still be a child since Olson never traveled through time. Same with Kei and Mimzy and their baby. Not to mention, both Mimzy and Athena of this reality should be stuck in the middle of space, since the rest of the elevator was destroyed.

And then you also see Kei and Mhoom, who should be dead either way... or is this just a flashback?

Honestly, it seems as if the writers just didn't know how to end this show, so they threw together a 'happy ending' where everything turned out for the best, even though it doesn't make sense and doesn't really resolve anything. So, uh, yeah, could somebody explain this?
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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by Chris » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:35 pm

If you want some further explanation, I'd suggest watching Orguss II. It's a good OVA in its own right, but it also expands on some of the repercussions of the TV show's end. Basically, the way I see the "happy ending" is that those glimpses represent all the possible parallel worlds where these characters could've met, but obviously in different ways from what actually happened in the show.
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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by wielder » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:25 pm

The way I see it, the ending of the original Orguss was intentionally left open to interpretation.

You could argue that those images were simply a series of flashes from a bunch of possible realities that never existed and merely represent "what could have been" but never was or, on the contrary, they are new parallel worlds created as a result of "fixing" the problem at hand. It's not set in stone.

I remember trying to search for Japanese reactions and interpretations and, while machine translations aren't always trustworthy, it seems many of them were just as confused and unsure about what to make of the ending.
Chris wrote:If you want some further explanation, I'd suggest watching Orguss II. It's a good OVA in its own right, but it also expands on some of the repercussions of the TV show's end. Basically, the way I see the "happy ending" is that those glimpses represent all the possible parallel worlds where these characters could've met, but obviously in different ways from what actually happened in the show.
The one thing that always bugs me about Orguss 02, Chris, is that it was made by a completely different creative team an entire decade after the original series. In fact, it was apparently part of the same wave of "revivals" that brought us Macross II.

In the best case scenario, the staff could have potentially consulted the original creators about how to interpret the ending, that's not impossible, but it's probably more likely that they just took the existing materials and decided to go with their own ideas for the franchise. After all, Orguss 02 is more of a spin-off than a sequel in terms of content and style.

In addition to the fact that it retroactively re-writes what happened during the last couple of episodes of the original, a number of new concepts are introduced out of nowhere. Not much of an issue when you're dealing with mostly new characters and situations, granted, but it does affect some of what had been previously established by the first series.

That's not to say Orguss 02 is a bad show. In fact, I actually enjoyed it. I just don't think the continuity between both series works that smoothly. Not that I have anything against anyone who chooses to argue otherwise though.
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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by TakaTahuNuva » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:18 am

Alright, thanks guys! Guess I'll watch Orguss 02, then.
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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by Kei Katsuragi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Being a large fan of Orguss (I mean really large fan) I joined Mecha Talk today, after seeing this post. I know this is nary over a year old, but rather than just starting a new thread, I felt responding to this would be better.
TakaTahuNuva wrote:Okay, I just finished this series and I have a question about the ending. Obviously, spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show yet;

So, they've been trying to reach the Daitokuiten for 35 episodes, and they finally get there a few minutes before the show ends... and then what exactly happens? You see Olson and Kei and their past versions shooting each other... and then there are glimpses of (what I guess are) alternate realities.

So does that mean they rewrote history? Everything we've seen so far has been erased? Because on one hand, you see Kei and Tina, which implies the bomb never exploded. But on the other hand, you also see Olson and Athena - who should still be a child since Olson never traveled through time. Same with Kei and Mimzy and their baby. Not to mention, both Mimzy and Athena of this reality should be stuck in the middle of space, since the rest of the elevator was destroyed.

And then you also see Kei and Mhoom, who should be dead either way... or is this just a flashback?

Honestly, it seems as if the writers just didn't know how to end this show, so they threw together a 'happy ending' where everything turned out for the best, even though it doesn't make sense and doesn't really resolve anything. So, uh, yeah, could somebody explain this?
As for the past and present versions of Kei and Orson shooting each other, since the past versions had to be killed for the problem to be fixed, and the Emaan said that the Tokuitens had to die in order to repair the world, one would assume whatever happened between those four, could have only ended with all four of them dying.

Alright now for the 7 glimpses into the different dimensions. Right after the past and present Kei, and Orsons shoot each other, we see the Earth, with six earths splitting away from it (which would be seven). Then we are followed by 7 glimpses where, like Chris said, are the possibilities of the different worlds.

The first glimpse shows a child Kei chasing a child Mimzy (without the Emaan tendrils). In this world, Mimzy and Kei are one form of human (if not Terram/Chilam) and knew each other as kids.

The second glimpse shows Jabby looking at Mimzy holding what, is safe to assume, her and Kei's child. This world, in my opinion, is the continuation of the dimension we know, since nothing out of the ordinary is in this glimpse. Lack of Kei, could mean he's dead after all, if my theory is true.

The third glimpse shows Orson and Athena kissing, which I admit, doesn't give me much room to work with. Since Orson is alive, and Athena seems to be the age she was in the show, this mite be the dimension we know, and only Kei had to die, or just mite be one where Athena didn't exist as Kei's daughter, or Kei died in the explosion, etc. Unfortunately there isn't much wiggle room in this glimpse.

The fourth glimpse shows Kei and young Tina (as seen in the beginning of episode 1). This one is easy, simply if the Dimensional bomb never went off, or it did and he found her some other way. Safe to say, doesn't matter how, but he ended up with Tina in this world.

The fifth glimpse shows Mome running to Kei, but to answer TakaTahuNuva, this wouldn't be a flashback. If you look at Mome she has the Emaan tendrils, where Kei does not. In this world Mome is not a Mu, but seems to retain the same relationship with Kei. Sadly this glimpse doesn't tell us much. Kei looks like himself, and is clearly not a Emaan like Mome is. One could only speculate.

The sixth glimpse shows Shaya with Lance (I think that was his name). Both are still Emaan. Maybe this dimension is one where Shaya took more charge, but like the fourth glimpse, it doesn't matter how, but Shaya ended with her dream man.

The seventh, and final glimpse shows Kei and Mimzy with their child. However, Kei and Mimzy both appear to have Emaan tendrils. This one could simply be, Kei was in the Emaan dimension, as an Emaan, he still ended up with Mimzy, and they still had their child.

So to conclude, the 6 earths, splitting from the center earth (making 7) and the 7 glimpses, I am lead to believe that we saw a glimpse of each of the 7 earths, and they all resulted in a happy ending. Again, I'm a huge Orguss fan, and have wanted to get this off my chest for some time. If anyone has a better explanation, please, be my guest and tell me about it.

And as for Orguss 02, I am on the same boat as wielder, were Orguss 02 was really good, but it's a spinoff that has nothing to do with the original series. (To be fair, I haven't seen it in a long time and I just recently re watched SDC Orguss)

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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:45 pm

One of the best real robot anime ever made and it was better than most of the other stuff that adapted into Robotech (Macross, Mospeada, and Megazone 23 trilogy) although I haven't seen Southern Cross. At first I wondered why this wasn't adapted into Robotech, then I actually watched it and I seriously doubt they could have cut out all the sex references. I have yet to see Orguss 02 because eps 3-6 are too hard to find. :( Some parts of Orguss I didn't care for, but as a whole and with Kei being one of the best anime characters out there it does hold up.

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Re: Super Dimension Century Orguss

Post by Kei Katsuragi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

I have seen Macross, and Megazone 23. Haven't gotten to M.O.S.P.E.A.D.A yet, but I'm currently watching Southern Cross. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Orguss is my personal favorite over all the series that were adapted into Robotech, but objectively I would have to say Macross is the best, and a superior show to Orguss.

As for the quality of Orguss, I am a bit of an apologist when it comes to Orguss, but I will admit that the show has quite a bit of flaws. Upon my initial viewing of the show I was in awe, because I was really young and all the mecha action was a real treat to me, but after watching it as many times as I have I will admit after they arrive to the Emaan country the show starts to drag quite a bit, and becomes redundant.

However, I love the cast, and tied with Yang Wen-Li, Kei Katsuragi is my favorite anime protagonist, with Mimzy being one of my favorite love interests. Them, as a couple, are easily my favorite anime lovey duo :wink:

But I agree, this series holds up and deserves massive amounts of praise :mrgreen:

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