More One Year War: North American Counteroffensive

[toysdream]

So I've been making some minor updates to my U.C. Timeline to reflect recent timelines and publications and whatnot. (One of the most interesting being the One Year War timeline published in The Gundam Chronicles Ver.2.0 - a timeline compiled by Aiyuki Okazaki, who also writes the Data Gundam column in Gundam Ace.) I've also been delving into the MSV stuff again, especially the arcane details of the Zaku Cannon. Along the way, I think I've arrived at a clearer picture of what was going on in North America during the tail end of the One Year War.


First, the Zaku Cannon stuff. As it turns out, the old 1/100 MSV kit manual has a ton of info about its deployment history which has never been reprinted anywhere else, although some of it is alluded to in the recent MG kit manual. In a nutshell, the stalled development of the Zaku Cannon was relaunched after info on the Guncannon reached the California Base, and the first prototype machines were organized into a team for combat testing. The original idea was that the Zaku Cannon would be tested in central North America or western Asia, so it was painted in sand-brown desert colors, but in the end it was tested in southwestern North America (where it mainly supported regular Zaku II units). The team then returned to the California Base for a formal data check and inspection.

Next, this Zaku Cannon team was redeployed to northwestern Canada, where it fought in two combat areas and engaged Federation Forces mobile suits just before the end of the war. At this point, the sand colors were changed to a low-visibility gray camouflage, and some machines were also painted in dark green for use in forest regions. (This dark green color scheme can be seen on pictures of Ian Graden's Zaku Cannon.)

The Mobile Suit Variation books flesh this out with some more detail. According to the first MSV book, the old 1/144 Zaku Cannon box art shows this team (still in the original sand colors) defending the California Base from a Federation Forces air raid, somewhere between mid-October and mid-November of U.C. 0079. The MSV book doesn't say whether this is before or after the initial combat test in southwestern North America, but the range of possible dates indicates that the team was formed in mid-October and redeployed to Canada in mid-November.

The MSV books also tell us more about the overall North American campaign. According to Mobile Suit Variation 3, the Federation Forces invade North America from two directions; one force heads south from a base in Alaska, and another heads north from a base in Panama, with both converging on the California Base. Around Seattle, Washington, the Alaskan force splits in two, with one group heading southeast to the Mayport base on the Gulf of Mexico. This latter group then continues on to Cape Canaveral and Newport on the east coast. According to the first MSV book, the old 1/100 Zaku Cannon box art shows the Zaku Cannon team battling part of the Florida-bound Alaskan force in early December; the location is Los Alamos, New Mexico, and the machines are back to their original sand colors. The second MSV book tells us that team leader Ian Graden was at Cape Canaveral when the war ended, so at this point the team is probably retreating toward Florida.


But what's happening back at the California Base? For a long time, Gundam books have been saying that this base falls on December 15 (I think this may have started with the Blue Destiny novelization). But recent kit manuals say the Federation actually recaptures it in early December (１２月上旬, meaning the time period from December 1 through December 10). As I've noted in my recent timeline additions, this is also supported by the dates that The Gundam Chronicles Ver.2.0 provides for the California Base missions in Zeonic Front, according to which the Midnight Fenrir team is fighting on the base's final defense lines on December 4 and covering the escape of their comrades on December 5.

According to Gundam Officials, the Federation's mopping-up operations in North America begin on December 5 and end of December 15. Given the route taken by the Federation Forces, and the fact that the California Base is one of Zeon's greatest terrestrial strongholds, it seems more logical that the capture of the California Base should mark the beginning of the mopping-up process rather than the end. It also seems appropriate that the Federation would want to deal with the California Base before shifting its attention to space, and that the Zeons receive such a swift karmic comeuppance for wasting all those resources on their Jaburo attack a few days earlier. (Or if you prefer, that the Jaburo attack was a desperate attempt to prevent the imminent fall of the California Base.)

One other relevant bit of info from the MSV books. According to the third book, the box art of the old 1/144 GM Cannon kit shows the newly deployed GM Cannon near Mount Shasta (which is at the northern end of the modern-day state of California), just before the attack on the California Base. The book explains that the GM Cannon was assigned to the Alaskan forces alongside the standard GM, and that these machines were repainted in winter colors after the capture of the Californa Base. It's elsewhere noted that the North American campaign was the first combat deployment of the GM Cannon, which means that they must have joined the Alaskan forces somewhere between November 20 (the earliest possible date for the deployment of the standard GM) and November 23 (when the GM Cannons of the White Dingo team fight their first battle in Australia). The MSV book adds that this is roughly one month after the start of the counteroffensive.


All of which means we can construct the following rough timeline for the North American campaign...

Mid to late October: The Federation Forces launch a North American counteroffensive, dispatching invasion forces south from Alaska and north from Panama.

Before mid November: The Zaku Cannon is tested against Federation ground forces in southwestern North America.

Mid November: The Zaku Cannon is redeployed to northwestern Canada to fight the Federation's Alaskan forces.

Late November: The GM and GM Cannon are deployed to the Federation's Alaskan forces, which then pass Mount Shasta and enter California itself. By this point, the Alaskan forces have split in two, and a separate branch is heading southeast towards the Gulf of Mexico and Florida.

Early December: Ian Graden and his Zaku Cannon team battle the Florida-bound branch of the Federation's Alaskan forces in New Mexico.

December 4: The Midnight Fenrir team fights at the final defense lines of the California Base.

December 5: The Federation Forces launch a mopping-up operation at the California Base. The Midnight Fenrir team cover the escape of other Zeon forces.

December 15: The Federation Forces conclude their mopping-up operations in North America. Ian Graden is now a prisoner of war at the Cape Canaveral base in Florida.

This also has some implications for the timing of events in the Blue Destiny side story, but I think this post is long enough already!

-- Mark

[Imperial]

Thank you as always for jumping through hoops to give us all of this information. I don't know how you have the patience to sit down and splice all of this together.

Whatever the case, it does bring to light some interesting notions, such as the timing of the Jaburo and California attacks. It's really too bad we don't really see the North American front outside of Blue Destiny, Zeonic Front, and the Lost War Chronicles manga. I always got the impression that it was one of the largest ground-based offensives of the war after the Odessa, yet it gets swept under the rug in favor of the space war more often than not.

[toysdream]

Thank you as always for jumping through hoops to give us all of this information. I don't know how you have the patience to sit down and splice all of this together.

The things we'll do in the name of procrastination...

Whatever the case, it does bring to light some interesting notions, such as the timing of the Jaburo and California attacks. It's really too bad we don't really see the North American front outside of Blue Destiny, Zeonic Front, and the Lost War Chronicles manga. I always got the impression that it was one of the largest ground-based offensives of the war after the Odessa, yet it gets swept under the rug in favor of the space war more often than not.

Perhaps part of the reason is that, technically, it didn't involve a whole lot of mobile suit combat. According to sources like the MSV Collection File, the Federation Forces only deployed about one battalion's worth of mobile suits in the North American campaign - in other words, about as many as they used in Operation Odessa, the defense of Jaburo, or the attack on the Apsaras development base. And, based on the timeline above, these mobile suits only joined the campaign in its final stages. So any continuity-accurate depiction would involve a lot of planes and tanks, and very little mobile suit fighting.

And the California Base, of course, already used up a lot of its mobile suits attacking Jaburo. So even the Zeon side would probably be using a lot of conventional weapons.

I guess, if we want a big exciting ground battle in the One Year War timeframe, you'd probably have to do it in Africa. That's meant to be the biggest Federation ground offensive of the war, and it goes on longer than the other ones, meaning there's more chance for Federation mobile suits to get involved.

-- Mark

[Chris]

So any continuity-accurate depiction would involve a lot of planes and tanks, and very little mobile suit fighting.

And the California Base, of course, already used up a lot of its mobile suits attacking Jaburo. So even the Zeon side would probably be using a lot of conventional weapons.

Sounds like the ideal sort of battle to have depicted in MS IGLOO 2, had it been set in America rather than Europe.

[Imperial]

Yes, I suppose the "boring" tank-and-plane nature of the North American offensive makes it unattractive to most. We would really only get to see something like that in IGLOO and IGLOO 2, which aim for a very narrow niche in the first place.

I guess, if we want a big exciting ground battle in the One Year War timeframe, you'd probably have to do it in Africa. That's meant to be the biggest Federation ground offensive of the war, and it goes on longer than the other ones, meaning there's more chance for Federation mobile suits to get involved.

-- Mark

Ironic that Africa winds up being the biggest hot bed of leftover Zeon activity in the postwar era

You'd think a fully revived Federation would have done a better job of wiping them out, but that's another topic altogether.

[toysdream]

Sounds like the ideal sort of battle to have depicted in MS IGLOO 2, had it been set in America rather than Europe.

Yeah, that would have been pretty cool! I guess MS Igloo 2 was focused on a particular front of the war, but one can imagine a similar kind of story tracing the developments on the North American front. It would be pretty interesting to see how soldiers who've been beating back Zeon with planes and tanks would react to a bunch of shiny new mobile suits parachuting in to steal their glory, not to mention how the Zeons would react to having to fight enemy MS with conventional weapons.

Of course, they could have done some of this stuff in MS Igloo 2 as well, but for some reason they opted not to have any continuing characters other than Major Colematta...

Ironic that Africa winds up being the biggest hot bed of leftover Zeon activity in the postwar era

Well, there are a couple of reasons for that. (Mainly that it's where all the other Zeons stuck on Earth fled to, and that the forces there were a "foreign legion" who couldn't back to their homelands at the end of the war.) One gets the impression that the Federation exerted just enough effort to quiet the region down, then declared victory and went home. Allowing Zeon renegades to hide out there almost seems like the conscious policy of a Federation government that didn't have the stomach for finishing the job.

-- Mark

[Imperial]

One gets the impression that the Federation exerted just enough effort to quiet the region down, then declared victory and went home. Allowing Zeon renegades to hide out there almost seems like the conscious policy of a Federation government that didn't have the stomach for finishing the job.

-- Mark

That's just complacent and lazy enough of the Federation that it makes sense. It's so like them.

Still, I'm a bit surprised the Titans didn't go traipsing off to Africa to poke that hornet's nest, whether as a part of their mission statement or to further Jamitov's goal of destabilizing the Earth Federation to a point of collapse. I'm sure committing horrible atrocities against Zeon rebels would stir up some resentment. Or maybe the general populace would think the Zeons had it coming after all the horrible things Zeon already did during the One Week War...

[toysdream]

That's just complacent and lazy enough of the Federation that it makes sense. It's so like them.

Yep. I think my recent translation research all tends to underscore the weakness of the Federation's position by the end of the war, and its eagerness to pretend that the war was over even though all these issues remained unresolved. That's pretty much the same reason it let all those Zeon remnants escape to Axis. Out of sight, out of mind.

Still, I'm a bit surprised the Titans didn't go traipsing off to Africa to poke that hornet's nest, whether as a part of their mission statement or to further Jamitov's goal of destabilizing the Earth Federation to a point of collapse.

A good question. I'm honestly not sure how much presence the Titans had on Earth before the start of Zeta Gundam, though; they still have a very small staff as the show begins, and it's telling that the pursuit of the Audhumla is conducted mainly by the regular Federation Forces and the Newtype Labs. And once the AEUG have given them a pretext to establish a foothold on Earth, they don't really need the Zeon remnants as an excuse anymore.

Or perhaps the notion of the Earth Sphere as being totally infested with huge numbers of Zeon remnants simply wasn't invented until after Zeta Gundam (I think the desert arc in ZZ was the first time we really heard about it). All these retcons, which have the Federation and Titans spending the entire period from 0081 through 0086 fighting armies of rebel Zeons, kind of have the creepy side effect of retroactively legitimizing the Titans.

-- Mark

[bluemax151]

Thanks as always for the info Mark. I really appreciate when you put in referenced kanji like that.

上旬/じょうじゅん/jyoujyun: first 10 days of the month

Does Blue Destiny even have date headers like RFTA? or can we only rely on the Manga and novel here? It's been a while since I played but I'm planning to go through it all the way shortly.

[toysdream]

Does Blue Destiny even have date headers like RFTA? or can we only rely on the Manga and novel here? It's been a while since I played but I'm planning to go through it all the way shortly.

Some of the games have internal dates, and some of them don't. Apparently the recent MS Frontline 0079 for the Wii mentions a handful of relevant dates in its mission briefings. The fact that these haven't shown up on Japanese fan sites yet, and that these fan sites haven't actually updated their UC timelines in years, seems like an indicator of the general worldwide slackening of Gundam online fandom.

The Blue Destiny game, though, doesn't seem to have included a lot of setting information - and certainly not specific mission dates a la Rise From The Ashes. The manga is hopelessly vague, too. As for the novel, it isn't all that internally consistent, and rearranges the order of some of the missions. So it's all pretty fragmentary!

One big question mark about Blue Destiny is the location of the base our heroes transfer to after their initial encounter with the Blue Destiny. (This is the seaside base where amphibious mobile suits try to destroy the base's energy plants.) In the novel, this is identified as the New Bern base in North America - an odd choice, since it's on the east coast, and thus poorly situated to spearhead an attack on California. What's more, the novel places these events after You Kajima becomes the Blue Destiny's pilot, which means his team has already transferred to North America.

The comic, of course, doesn't specify any locations. And as far as I can tell, the original game didn't do so either. Some of the Japanese fan sites suggest the seaside base may be in the Mediterranean, possibly at Gibraltar. In other words, it's a complete mystery!

-- Mark

[Zeonista]

Or perhaps the notion of the Earth Sphere as being totally infested with huge numbers of Zeon remnants simply wasn't invented until after Zeta Gundam (I think the desert arc in ZZ was the first time we really heard about it). All these retcons, which have the Federation and Titans spending the entire period from 0081 through 0086 fighting armies of rebel Zeons, kind of have the creepy side effect of retroactively legitimizing the Titans.

That's right, turn around and the Zeon are right there continuing the struggle! Sieg Zeon!! In all seriousness, there's a lot of plausibility in various ad hoc battle groups of Zeon remnants being left behind in out-of-the-way places on Earth. Not everybody could make it to a HLV platform or Zanzibar transport, right? Somebody had to hold the EFF ground troops at bay long enough for those launches to occur, right? What happens after that? Do the Zeon forces just surrender, or do they retreat into the bush and wait for the time to strike again, on their own or at the behest of a higher power? Not to say the remnant forces are all large, but even 1 Zaku with a conventional support team is dangerous enough. IIRC at least 10 Jukon class subs survived without surrendering, so with some satellite-bounce radio transmissions, a covert network of Zeon remnant groups could actually be in existence on earth, giving the EFF, the Federation's CIA/NSA/DIA, and the nascent Titans some work to do, with the occasional live-fire operation when a Remnant force is flushed. (The hard-liners who formed the Titans definitely felt that the Zeon threat was anything but gone in 0083, or 0087 for that matter. Why not give that anti-Spacenoid viewpoint something to feed on?)

Now, as to why the Zeon remnants on Earth would stay in the fight instead of just walking away form their equipment and catching a ride home in 0080 or 0081 may seem surprising to some here. But the ideologues and just-following-orders types would definitely stay in the fight, absent any orders to the contrary. (Certain units might also be in the position of Cima Fleet, unwelcome at home and hated by the EFF at large. Not much incentive there....) And due to the result at Aboawaku, there was no authority willing to issue the stand-down. So the isolated groups stay on, hoping to see victory one day.... For a real life example, see various isolated Imperial Japanese units, sometimes individuals, who were still in wartime mode up to 20 years after WW II ended. Once accidentally contacted, the Japanese government would send representatives to talk them out of Robinson Crusoe Banzai mode and into returning to Japan. (This could make the case that the Principality of Zeon is more like Axis-era Imperial Japan than Nazi Germany in operation, despite the Hollywood Nazi getup, but that's another topic.)

The base in Blue Destiny is definitely not New Bern! Topography is all wrong.... But then again, some of the topography in the first series looked a little hazy at times, too. What can yo about it sometimes?

I'm a little bemused at seeing the routes of the EFF attack on California Base, as well as the Zeon's fighting retreat eastward to Florida. The ZMF's lack of numbers on the ground must have hindered them, along with some ignorance of local geography. The mountainous and heavily forested terrain of the Pacific Northwest should have been able to give a flexible defense force the ability to hold the EFF at bay for months. Plus, the idea of doing a fighting retreat through the lower Rockies in December.... Ugh, it'd be better turning into a Remnant unit in Big Sur or Mexico, rather than having to do that.

[toysdream]

That's right, turn around and the Zeon are right there continuing the struggle! Sieg Zeon!! In all seriousness, there's a lot of plausibility in various ad hoc battle groups of Zeon remnants being left behind in out-of-the-way places on Earth.

Maybe so, but I think you're missing the point of my complaint: It makes the Titans right.

Now, as to why the Zeon remnants on Earth would stay in the fight instead of just walking away form their equipment and catching a ride home in 0080 or 0081 may seem surprising to some here. But the ideologues and just-following-orders types would definitely stay in the fight, absent any orders to the contrary. (Certain units might also be in the position of Cima Fleet, unwelcome at home and hated by the EFF at large. Not much incentive there....) And due to the result at Aboawaku, there was no authority willing to issue the stand-down. So the isolated groups stay on, hoping to see victory one day....

That's not the main reason, though. Most of the holdouts left on Earth aren't actually citizens of Side 3; they're Federation deserters or turncoats from other Sides, who joined the Zeon cause and were assigned to the "foreign legion" that was responsible for the African front. Likewise, according to some sources, for the submarine fleets. Spacenoids don't have any naval skills, so Zeon's submarine fleets are crewed mainly by Earthnoid traitors. That may be why, unlike most of the other Zeon characters in the original series, the submarine fleet crew have normal Earth names like "Mulligan" and "Connolly" and "Flanagan Boone".

Sure, there were some Side 3 citizens stuck on Earth at the end of the war. (The mission briefings from the "MS Frontline 0079" game mention that the commanders of Zeon's Earth Attack Force generally escaped first, leaving their leaderless troops behind as M'Quve did.) But they can always surrender to the Federation, become prisoners of war, and get sent home once the treaties are all signed. That's what happened with MSV ace Ian Graden, for example. But volunteers from Earth or the other Sides have nowhere to go back to; if they went home, any of their former neighbors who survived the Zeon genocide would simply lynch them. Thus, these are the ones who fought to the bitter end and then went into hiding after the war.

In space, we do have some Zeon remnants who keep fighting purely for the sake of the Zeon cause. But the ones stuck on Earth are generally the ones who have no other options.

I'm a little bemused at seeing the routes of the EFF attack on California Base, as well as the Zeon's fighting retreat eastward to Florida.

I think the retreat to Florida was mainly an attempt to get to the remaining HLVs. Cape Canaveral, in the Universal Century as today, is one of North America's few major spaceports. Probably Graden and friends got there too late to catch a ride home, and thus had to become POWs.

-- Mark

[Zeonista]

Maybe so, but I think you're missing the point of my complaint: It makes the Titans right.

Actually, what I was stating was that the existence of Zeon Remnants gave the Titans some validity for their conception as an elite counter-insurgency force. From the EFF's general point of view circa 0083, that would make sense. Some officers might even have seen it as a long-delayed active response to a problem that stubbornly refused to disappear, regardless of the fervent wishes of the EUG's representatives and bureaucrats. The invalid nature of the Titans stemmed from their independent paramilitary status, and their leaders' unwillingness to distinguish between Zeonist agitation and legitimate political expression by Spacenoids. After all (according to the Titans), the loyal & hard-working citizens of the Federation have nothing to complain about, right? It must all be the fault of those accursed Zeon remnants!

That's not the main reason, though. Most of the holdouts left on Earth aren't actually citizens of Side 3; they're Federation deserters or turncoats from other Sides, who joined the Zeon cause and were assigned to the "foreign legion" that was responsible for the African front. Likewise, according to some sources, for the submarine fleets.

A ZMF soldier who remained loyal enough to the cause not to give up afterward would be considered full-membership Zeon by both sides, regardless of origin. It would also seem unusual to me that the EFF would bother to make any distinction likewise. holdouts would be considered holdouts, and odious regardless of their origin. After the proclaimed "no soldier left" declaration of 0080, any unit still in the bush would be considered hostile, no matter their origin. The only ones who wouldn't have given in by then would be the diehards unwilling to give up for various reasons.

But volunteers from Earth or the other Sides have nowhere to go back to

Zeon remnants in space would have taken them in, or the Axis, if they could make it that far. With forged IDs some of them could have tried to call it quits and fade into the anonymous populace of the Sides. But none of those options could be present if there was no way to leave Earth in the first place. The EFF high command in 0081 may well have decided that camping on all the available spaceports was a better way to deal with Earth-bound remnant units than going to the effort & expense of hunting them down one by one.

I think the retreat to Florida was mainly an attempt to get to the remaining HLVs. Cape Canaveral, in the Universal Century as today, is one of North America's few major spaceports. Probably Graden and friends got there too late to catch a ride home, and thus had to become POWs.

That is definitely a valid point. It would explain the final phase of the North American operations, being a dash to Florida ahead of EFF units possibly advancing through the Great Plains along the Mississippi. But the cost of doing so through the southern Rockies then would be ruinous. Since California Base had its own space launch capabilities already, one might think that the ZMF could have made a greater stand north of San Francisco, trying to arrest EFF progress southward. Somehow I suspect strategy beyond a simple landward advance as having compromised the ZMF defenses. It might also have something to do with Char using their MS reserve to attack Jaburo, perhaps?

[toysdream]

A ZMF soldier who remained loyal enough to the cause not to give up afterward would be considered full-membership Zeon by both sides, regardless of origin.

That seems like an unsupported assertion. Going by the Japanese sources, it does seem like these "turncoats" were treated differently from actual Zeon citizens. And what's more, Mobile Suit Variation 2 says that this was the idea all along, and that Gihren planned to sell them out from the very beginning:

Most of the members of this foreign legion descended to the Red Sea and the coast of the Persian Gulf during the second landing operation, and without exception they were sent into Earth's most fiercely contested areas. Officially, this was because they were superb soldiers with strong anti-Earth Federation sentiments who would fight to the last man. But in fact, it is believed that Supreme Commander Gihren Zabi made a political judgement that this foreign legion could be readily discarded, and accountability for its actions easily avoided, during any postwar reckoning.

As for this:

After the proclaimed "no soldier left" declaration of 0080, any unit still in the bush would be considered hostile, no matter their origin. The only ones who wouldn't have given in by then would be the diehards unwilling to give up for various reasons.

Sure, but we were talking about what those "various reasons" were. In most cases, they seem to have little to do with ideology, and a lot to do with whether the soldiers in question had anywhere to go back to. I mean, what do you imagine would happen to these Earthnoids and non-Zeon spacenoids once they returned to society? Side 3 probably wouldn't take them - after all, they were originally meant to be disposable - and they'd be strung up from a lamppost anywhere else they went. Nobody likes a traitor.

Zeon remnants in space would have taken them in, or the Axis, if they could make it that far.

Maybe. But the Axis remnants didn't even accept Cima Garahau and her crew, who were actual Side 3 citizens. Besides, it's kind of handy for these space-based remnants to have allies on Earth they can impose on. You never see Gato, Delaz, or Haman promising to take their terrestrial allies back to space with them, do you?

In a nutshell: From the Japanese sources, I get the definite impression that these non-Zeon volunteers were treated as "second-class citizens" both during and after the war. The MSV books even state this explicitly. They aren't (just) fanatics, or the victims of misinformation like the famous Japanese holdouts who never learned that WWII was over. They're abandoned exiles, who don't have any realistic alternative aside from hiding out like war criminals.

Since California Base had its own space launch capabilities already, one might think that the ZMF could have made a greater stand north of San Francisco, trying to arrest EFF progress southward.

Sure, they did that - long enough, according to Zeonic Front, to launch all the California Base's remaining HLVs. Then there were no more shuttles, and the base was useless, and they all ran away to Cape Canaveral.


EDIT: Oh, and here's a bit more about the Earth-born soldiers who crewed Zeon's submarine fleets. This is from the profile of the Jukon-class submarine in the MSV Collection File:

Because they needed to accumulate the skill and experience to maintain and operate a naval branch, the Zeon forces could not immediately put it to use. They decided to resolve this problem by using Earth-born people who had experience with naval service as aides to space-born commanders and captains. Most of these people came from regions that were under Zeon occupation, or were naval personnel who defected from the Federation Forces due to their Zeon sympathies. This policy proved successful, and these superior soldiers used this submarine to sink large numbers of Federation ships.

-- Mark

[Gelgoog Jager]

A ZMF soldier who remained loyal enough to the cause not to give up afterward would be considered full-membership Zeon by both sides, regardless of origin.

That seems like an unsupported assertion. Going by the Japanese sources, it does seem like these "turncoats" were treated differently from actual Zeon citizens. And what's more, Mobile Suit Variation 2 says that this was the idea all along, and that Gihren planned to sell them out from the very beginning:

Most of the members of this foreign legion descended to the Red Sea and the coast of the Persian Gulf during the second landing operation, and without exception they were sent into Earth's most fiercely contested areas. Officially, this was because they were superb soldiers with strong anti-Earth Federation sentiments who would fight to the last man. But in fact, it is believed that Supreme Commander Gihren Zabi made a political judgement that this foreign legion could be readily discarded, and accountability for its actions easily avoided, during any postwar reckoning.

As for this:

After the proclaimed "no soldier left" declaration of 0080, any unit still in the bush would be considered hostile, no matter their origin. The only ones who wouldn't have given in by then would be the diehards unwilling to give up for various reasons.

Sure, but we were talking about what those "various reasons" were. In most cases, they seem to have little to do with ideology, and a lot to do with whether the soldiers in question had anywhere to go back to. I mean, what do you imagine would happen to these Earthnoids and non-Zeon spacenoids once they returned to society? Side 3 probably wouldn't take them - after all, they were originally meant to be disposable - and they'd be strung up from a lamppost anywhere else they went. Nobody likes a traitor.

Zeon remnants in space would have taken them in, or the Axis, if they could make it that far.

Maybe. But the Axis remnants didn't even accept Cima Garahau and her crew, who were actual Side 3 citizens. Besides, it's kind of handy for these space-based remnants to have allies on Earth they can impose on. You never see Gato, Delaz, or Haman promising to take their terrestrial allies back to space with them, do you?

In a nutshell: From the Japanese sources, I get the definite impression that these non-Zeon volunteers were treated as "second-class citizens" both during and after the war. The MSV books even state this explicitly. They aren't (just) fanatics, or the victims of misinformation like the famous Japanese holdouts who never learned that WWII was over. They're abandoned exiles, who don't have any realistic alternative aside from hiding out like war criminals.

-- Mark

Regarding the way Gihren treated the members of the 5th Terrestrial Division, it does seem to be a habit that was passed down to Neo Zeon:

After the Civil War at Side 3 switches from a fleet battle (which saw little MS combat) to a MS battle at Axis, we first see the Endra II overloaded with Axis MS (to the point of even towing several MS on a cable), including Gallus-J, Zssa, Dreissen, and a few other prototypes. Mashymere indicates that these are the reserve forces, while Chara's forces are the main force. Later on, we see Chara's MS forces which aside from her Geymalk and the two Gazus belonging to ther bodyguards, consists entirely of Hi-Zacks and Marasais, which I would presume are Titan remnants that joined forces with Neo Zeon. The rebel forces they engage, while including high spec units such as the Quin Mantha, Dooben Wolf and even Zaku III, also consist of Titan's Hi-Zacks, Marasais and even an Asshimar.

So in this case, the Titan remnants end up receivng a similair treatment, being the first ones thrown into battle and against their own former allies, while both Neo Zeon factions save their own regular forces for later on.

As for the Zeon remnants we see on Earth, Neun Bitter forces, the submarine forces and and the MS that attacked Torrington, they all seemed very eager to help the Zeon cause, many to the point of sacrificing themselves. In 0088, Rommel claims that he wants to support Minerva Zabi's cause, which is the reason he kept training his forces. And if Gundam Legacy can be considered canon, Ken Bederstadt from the foreign legion forces seem to have been integrated into the army Republic of Zeon after the war.

As for Cima's case, IRC, the reasons she wasn't allowed to join Axis was 1) for comitting war crimes (precisely what you mentioned Gihren meant to use the foreign legion for) and 2) her superior pushing all the blame into her.

Ultimately, those foreign legion forces that did comit war crimes might have also been banned from heading to Axis, but also consider the opposite case, for example: Thomas Kurtz, a member of the Chimera Corps that originally belonged to the foregin legion. Had he survived the Battle of A Baoa Qu, I don't think he would have been excluded from joining Axis regardless of his origin, especially considering his skills and achievements.

[toysdream]

As for the Zeon remnants we see on Earth, Neun Bitter forces, the submarine forces and and the MS that attacked Torrington, they all seemed very eager to help the Zeon cause, many to the point of sacrificing themselves. In 0088, Rommel claims that he wants to support Minerva Zabi's cause, which is the reason he kept training his forces.

They're certainly a pretty gung-ho bunch, no argument there. Although the ones we see in 0083 are a bit more fanatical, like all the Zeon characters in that show...

And if Gundam Legacy can be considered canon, Ken Bederstadt from the foreign legion forces seem to have been integrated into the army Republic of Zeon after the war.

Well, Gundam comics aren't official, but then neither are Gundam video games so it's kind of a wash. (And Ken doesn't even appear in the Lost War Chronicles game to begin with!) But Ken's kind of a special case; according to the various LWC spinoffs, Ken's a former Colony Corporation employee who ended up fighting for Zeon because they took his family hostage, so he was never really a volunteer. I can see that providing a pretty compelling defense in any postwar legal proceedings.

Ultimately, those foreign legion forces that did comit war crimes might have also been banned from heading to Axis, but also consider the opposite case, for example: Thomas Kurtz, a member of the Chimera Corps that originally belonged to the foregin legion. Had he survived the Battle of A Baoa Qu, I don't think he would have been excluded from joining Axis regardless of his origin, especially considering his skills and achievements.

We'll never know, will we? I don't think it's ever been established what kind of dirty tricks Cruz got up to when he was commanding his guerilla unit, but even so, there's no guarantee the Axis refugees would have taken him in. If he had a track record like Cima's, they could easily have used that against him, just as they did with Cima.

-- Mark

[Calubin_175]

Gundam Ace's adaptation of Gundam Senki 0081 has some flashbacks on this campaign.

http://www.xhood.net/book/view_155_6_3.html

[toysdream]

Just a quick "Told you so" update.

First, as Calubin noted, the Gundam Senki 0081 comic in Gundam Ace shows the Federation Forces hastily launching "Operation 41," a decoy operation that serves as the opening move in their attack against the California Base, on December 3. A more recent issue gives us another interesting reference point...

One of the newer serials in Gundam Ace is a comic called "MS Boys," which has been following a handful of young Zeon recruits as they retreat from Odessa to the California Base. The last couple of installments have been crossing over with Blue Destiny (probably because "MS Boys" artist Mizuho Takayama also did the Blue Destiny comic). In the May issue, we're told that the Blue Destiny's solo attack on a Zeon missile base - a mission which is supposed to take place immediately before the main attack on the California Base - happens on the night of December 4.

This strongly supports an earlier date for the California Base battle, as I proposed in my first post above. Between the Gundam Senki 0081 comic, MS Boys, and the Zeonic Front mission dates, I think we have a solid working consensus that the main attack actually begins on December 5, not December 15.

What's more, we seem to have an emerging consensus on the Blue Destiny timeline as well. For a while there, the HG-UC kit manuals claimed that the initial encounter between You Kajima's test team and the berserker Blue Destiny takes place on November 29. (I think they got this from the timeline in an old strategy guide.) But the most recent kit manual - the one from the Blue Destiny Unit 3 - revises this to say that November 29 is actually the date on which You Kajima is assigned to become the Blue Destiny's pilot. According to the original video game, the missile base attack is You's first mission as the Blue Destiny's pilot, so a gap of just a few days (from November 29 to December 4) seems perfectly reasonable.

-- Mark

[doghunter1]

toysdream wrote

If he had a track record like Cima's, they could easily have used that against him, just as they did with Cima.

-- Mark

Was that how Asakura sweet-talked the Axis brass into denying Cima and her buddies refuge?

[Zeonista]

Just a quick "Told you so" update.

First, as Calubin noted, the Gundam Senki 0081 comic in Gundam Ace shows the Federation Forces hastily launching "Operation 41," a decoy operation that serves as the opening move in their attack against the California Base, on December 3. A more recent issue gives us another interesting reference point...

One of the newer serials in Gundam Ace is a comic called "MS Boys," which has been following a handful of young Zeon recruits as they retreat from Odessa to the California Base. The last couple of installments have been crossing over with Blue Destiny (probably because "MS Boys" artist Mizuho Takayama also did the Blue Destiny comic). In the May issue, we're told that the Blue Destiny's solo attack on a Zeon missile base - a mission which is supposed to take place immediately before the main attack on the California Base - happens on the night of December 4.

This strongly supports an earlier date for the California Base battle, as I proposed in my first post above. Between the Gundam Senki 0081 comic, MS Boys, and the Zeonic Front mission dates, I think we have a solid working consensus that the main attack actually begins on December 5, not December 15.

What's more, we seem to have an emerging consensus on the Blue Destiny timeline as well. For a while there, the HG-UC kit manuals claimed that the initial encounter between You Kajima's test team and the berserker Blue Destiny takes place on November 29. (I think they got this from the timeline in an old strategy guide.) But the most recent kit manual - the one from the Blue Destiny Unit 3 - revises this to say that November 29 is actually the date on which You Kajima is assigned to become the Blue Destiny's pilot. According to the original video game, the missile base attack is You's first mission as the Blue Destiny's pilot, so a gap of just a few days (from November 29 to December 4) seems perfectly reasonable.
-- Mark

Seeing this topic refreshed, I came across this entry. I found it interesting since I had been reading some "MS Boys" chapters, and had been trying to match the events with my old translated Blue Destiny volume. This entry was very helpful, and nailed some events down for me.

In retrospect it seems the end for Zeon in North America came very swiftly. The angsty band of heroes on White Base of course had played their part well. In addition to defending Jaburo against Char's assault, they had earlier decapitated the American high command (Bye, Garma!) and probably left the front with no clear senior commander or any strategic directive. (The ZMF strategic directive, as indicated in the anime, passed to Asia and Europe, and then came back to North America at the time of crisis.) The California Base troops hunkered down to play defense, until they heard otherwise. Given the production and transportation facilities available, California could have held out indefinitely as long as the ZMF got a couple of victories to buy them some time.

Those victories of course never came, and in the wake of the anime's switch to space events the situation had become desperate. Forced to defend against two separate offensives with inferior numbers, the California Base units gave up a lot of ground and prepared to leave. Since the EFF now was gaining air superiority, evacuation into space could be carried out only at Florida Base, which was further to the east, and guarded by marine warfare units. The ZMF forces then headed east by any means possible, with a diehard rearguard of MS units and supporting conventional units providing cover. It being early December, the Sierra Nevada passes had snowfall that could be measured with a meter stick, and the Zeon units lost more people in 2 weeks of retreating than they had lost in 4 prior months of fighting. A much reduced but more mobile Zeon remnant made it to Florida and took all the available transport to space, or to Africa. The remaining rearguard elements then surrendered to the EFF c. 12/15/79.

The American Front's MS forces, although not numerous compared to conventional forces, became critical here to the success of the EFF. The new GM battalions were used to spearhead attacks into the California Base facilities, and meet the counterattacks of the ZMF rearguard. The prior ability of the Zeon MS to snatch victory (or at least stalemate) from the jaws of defeat was broken in a series of MS-oriented battles. (Blue Destiny & MS Boys took this into account, as well as the increasing lack of experienced pilots in the ZMF ranks. MS Boys outright claims that the EFF & ZMF MS units were in many cases balanced in ability, and the Zeon aces were offset by the Federation's mysteriously powerful (to the Zeons) prototype MS.) The EFF conventional forces then were free to mop up the base areas, and follow along the ZMF's route of retreat, accepting the surrenders of frozen Zeon soldiers who had never experienced a blizzard before, and had no desire to do so again!