The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

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Amadi Akintunde
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote:
HellCat wrote:But at the minute the narrative is incomplete.
Ironically, we could say the same thing about Gundam SEED Destiny. :) There was a movie to cap it off, too; though it's currently in development hell.

Sorry, couldn't resist. But anyway, any "punishment" of CB seems irrelevant at this point, because, as noted in this thread, they've crossed the point of their reason for being in Aeolia's plan. Kati's "threats" don't seem to phase them, as Setsuna, Sumeragi, and co seem more than ready to keep doing their thing. (Lyle even talks about how he's going to go on as a full-time Gundam Meister; he's quitting Katheron. Which is funny, because I have no idea what he's going to do as a Gundam pilot unless fighting breaks out quickly). These are just the way I see things, though. The movie can still be entertaining, but I don't know if satisfying things this late will fix the rest for people who were bugged by the series' overall execution.

Speaking of Katheron, did they join the Federation? Because they hated the Federation, and it wasn't just because of the A-LAWS. They didn't like the Federation itself and wanted it overthrown, whereas CB only wanted A-LAWS gone (according to the episode where Sumeragi first meets with Claus).
I'm certain Katharon was dissolved as well.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

Katharon has likely dissolved, or at least suspended hostilities with the Federation, judging from the Claus and Shirin blurb in the epilogue.

Claus originally went on about the inequities of the Federation and how it had to be toppled altogether, but you may remember the conversation he had with Shirin about Marina's song. He commented on how everyone had gotten so caught up in the fighting that they lost sight of diplomatic answers. Fortunately for him, it seems Marina's good vibes had an effect on him, as he was willing to extend the olive branch once the A-Laws disbanded.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote:Speaking of Katheron, did they join the Federation? Because they hated the Federation, and it wasn't just because of the A-LAWS. They didn't like the Federation itself and wanted it overthrown, whereas CB only wanted A-LAWS gone (according to the episode where Sumeragi first meets with Claus).
Was this cut from the broadcast as well? Claus and Shirin are seen in the Federation assembly at the end of ep.25, where the new Federation president is talking about the need for reform and new policies, etc. Given that Kati and (presumably) Patrick have also rejoined the Federation, and Marina is back in Azadistan, it seems obvious that the Federation has changed or is in the process of changing.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

It was in the broadcast - Saji looks over at the TV and comments that there are people from Katharon present at the Federation assembly, and it shows both Shirin and Claus, as well as the Anew-like Innovade in the background.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

Dark Duel wrote:It was in the broadcast - Saji looks over at the TV and comments that there are people from Katharon present at the Federation assembly, and it shows both Shirin and Claus, as well as the Anew-like Innovade in the background.
(I like how this series uses quick snippits, sometimes without closeups, to get across its changing narrative :P ). ...OK, yeah, that's right, I thought I heard and saw that, but I couldn't remember for sure because it was so brief and because Lyle said he was quitting Katheron (implying that Katheron still exists). I find it a bit of a leap that Katheron makes up with the Federation because of Claus and Shirin getting excited about Marina's song, especially since they aren't the only leaders in Katheron, but I'll go with it. Katheron was a shell/McGuffin organization in this series anyway. (If they still exist, though, even without Claus/Shirin, it means they could be targets for armed intervention, eh?).

For that matter, the reformation of the Federation was curious. I mean, Kati went into that last battle with ONE ship--her and her loyalists who were fed up with A-LAWS after the 'Break [Pillar] Incident'. Now, Hercury had his coup contingent--I don't think a majority of them survived--but even so, could this relatively small faction within the GLOBAL federation really change its entire course and evict its current president? Seems a miraculous turnabout, particularly since the whole Innovator conflict was basically unknown by the majority of the Federation.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

ZEEEECHS!! >=o

"If the world has gone crazy, then I'll believe in myself and keep on fighting!"

So I wish I had been able to keep up with the show in the same pace the rest of you had. Since I did not, I'll have to write this very long summation of my thoughts. I can't possibly cover much of it in depth, and I'm likely going to forget many things I once wanted to bring up. Just so you know, I actually have a bit of an outline I'm writing from, lol.

Let me say first that I liked 00, and I appreciate the fact that I had the opportunity to watch it. Also keep in mind that I probably don't watch as much TV or anime as some of you, and 00 was actually one of the few shows I was keeping up with at the time. So yeah, that means I was paying as much attention as I possibly could. On the other hand, I don't have access to any supplementary material, so don't assume that I understand or know those things.

Overall, 00 never really did anything that was all too awful. At least none of it insulted my intelligence, right? =p However, like any other Gundam series, it had its share of quirks and weirdness. And yes, like any other Gundam series, it will have people who can both love or hate it. I seem to be a bit backwards from most of you (like usual....) since I did not really care for the first season of 00, but liked the second season better. I guess you can attribute that to the fact that the show had finished introducing stuff and was now free to just develop. And we finally had a bit of character development. I like character development.

I have a small list of strange things I wanted to point out. Don't see these as complaints, but rather just things that made me react, "Huh, that was weird...!" They were just things I couldn't make sense of really. I guess this is only for S2, as I've forgotten most of the things from S1.

Why did stabbing the Masurao's shoulders suddenly cause its helm to explode?? O_o Were they just trying really hard to reveal it was a Flag, but couldn't find a better way to do it?

What's with the auto-purge of the Africa Tower? I'm guessing it did that so it didn't topple, but I'm sure the engineers could have foreseen what dangers it would cause to the land beneath the tower! Why not have some sort of "defense net" against all of that? Or maybe have the panels self destruct? I don't know.

On top of that, why did the mass of the panels suddenly disappear in a puff of smoke whenever it was shot by a MS? It's like it was deleted from existence and was suddenly not dangerous anymore. Wouldn't shooting a panel just turn it into a rain of shrapnel instead? I'm also worried about the stray bullets coming back down to earth. =/ Sorry, I can't help but point out these things as a physicist. =p

Who was Ribbons talking to when he announced the ultimate goal of Schenburg's plan?? Because it obviously was not the fleet of ships outside. They acted like they didn't hear what he said at all. I mean...aliens, suddenly? Did they not care at all? Nobody stopped to understand what was going on? Just...go in and start attacking like buffoons?? =(

Tieria...c'mon, man! I know you had to confront Ribbons, but why not do it from the safety of the hallway or something?! He's obviously going to have a gun! You just sat there in the open and got your ass killed for no reason! =(

***

To be honest, I was feeling real good after episodes 23 and 24. Things were going great, and I enjoyed it. But because of the way those episodes were done, it made episode 25 seem completely superfluous and a bit pointless. And my opinion of the "end" dropped notably after it. I would have been perfectly cool if they had just ended with 24.

I mean, at that point, they had toppled Ribbons by taking control of Veda. And Setsuna had fulfilled his ambition in becoming God, becoming Gundam. And through that he could make people understand each other. I appreciated both the symbolism and the literalism of that. This sets me apart from most people, but I appreciated the fact that 00 had a method for all people to understand each other, even if it's something that WE can never have. You'll find that I'm not a person that is bitter about things being fictitious, but can appreciate when people look for solutions, even if they only exist in the story.

So for me, the show was done at that point. But then I got episode 25 on my plate. Despite having basically lost his battle already, Ribbons decides to show up in a new MS. Who CARES if Ribbons has a new Gundam?? What can one Gundam do? He's already lost control of Veda and all of his troops asides from two other mobile suits. Ribbons wasn't really a threat anymore at that point, and it felt like he was just a fly that needed to be swatted down.

I would have just ignored him. =/ CB should have repaired and regrouped. Let Tieria keep track of Ribbons. He'll be after your GN drives anyway, so he's not gonna disappear or anything. And fight him when your people aren't so worn down. (Also, why didn't Setsuna's whole transformation episode make Ribbons understand what was going on? Was he just too much of a dick to get it?)

For me, Ribbons and the Innovades were really one-dimensional villains. They were just people with god complexes. That pretty much painted them as the bad guys with no real redeeming qualities. Making things so cut and dry was uninteresting for me. (On top of that, just what WAS Regene's plan?? All she said was that she had her own alternate plan before she was shot, and that was all we heard!) =/

I will probably be the ONLY person you'll run into who will say this, but to me the fighting actually got notably worse in the last episode. Instead of Setsuna or Ribbons really doing anything innovative, they were just surprising each other a lot for some reason and were being reckless, and both of their machines go wrecked because of it. Just what is up with the Reborns Gundam anyway? It obviously has a Twin Tau Drive, but it didn't exhibit any twin drive behavior. =/ On top of that, the "epic duel dialogue" was just petty talk about Innovator-ness.

Ribbons is an awful pilot. And instead of giving Setsuna trouble, to me it seemed like Setsuna was just being kinda dumb in comparison to how he fought in other parts of the season. I mean, they both exhibited some really poor swordsmanship. =(

Ribbons...c'mon, man. Setsuna was obviously going to STAB you with that last attack. I don't know how he could have made it any more obvious than that. You probably would have been fine if you decided to sidestep, or maybe risk a parry. I know he's coming in REALLY FAST, but you can use that to your advantage! It's hard to change direction or attacks when moving like that! Jesus....

I really don't like it when the final boss mecha is introduced in the last episode. I don't have a lot of time to familiarize myself with it, or really appreciate it. I like the look of the Reborns Gundam, but it was basically throw-away trash because it had to be introduced and shot down so quickly. On top of that, we had to rush the fight between the ExiaR2 and the 0 Gundam, too! Again, that fight seemed to go too quickly and it made Ribbons seem like a horrible pilot again.

I guess I don't have much to say about the epilogue. It was kinda bland, and I just kinda have to swallow how they decided to fix everything up. And I really wanted to like Marina, but what makes her a good princess again?? =( Patrick, lol.

***

About the show overall, there were some things that bothered me. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. All I'm saying that I didn't think these things were handled well in my eyes. They don't make me upset or anything, and they don't cause me to say 00 was a bad show. Simply, they just bothered me is all.

I think the motion blur was somewhat overused in the fight scenes. And after a while, I got really tired of mobile suits flying in and out of "the camera". Yeah, it looks dynamic, but nothing should be overused. Perhaps zoom out a bit so I can try to follow what you're doin'?

I'm not a person that really approves of time-skips. Instead of the creators doing the developing, I'm just made to assume whatever they need me to think. In a literal, real-world sense, it's a cheap and easy trick for a director. In a narrative sense, I can see how they are necessary sometimes, and yeah, I understand "things happen" between then and now. For 00 however, they always happen directly after something catastrophic occurs. And instead of really seeing the damage play out, we just skip ahead to the parts where "the action can go on". Hmm. >=/

I didn't like Ali. Instead of the Gundam Meisters really dealing with their traumatic pasts or personal sins, they just kinda blamed this a**hole for all of it. It's harder to make things right and forgive yourself than it is to just kill some jerk. This was a damn shame.

Graham....seemingly didn't accomplish anything for the series overall?? A break-down of the masked-man archetype, you say? Well, I never bought into the whole Char-clone thing. I just saw everybody as their own character. Graham kinda just got in a few fights and then trailed off.... Perhaps not a good use of character investment or screen time? =(

(And while I'm trying to figure people out, just what the hell was up with Lasse??? Were they just trying really hard to make him look cool or something? I didn't buy it, lol. Sorry. Limited screen time, sir. Get the hell off the screen!) =/

The Trans-Am spamming got a little stale. If there's ever ANY trouble at all, you can promise yourself that the solution is going to be Trans-Am, in every episode. Not that anyone is figuring out anything exceptional or innovative. They just have very good timing on when to use a power boost. =/ I stopped being surprised eventually. I mean, when you have the same punch line every time, it really loses its impact. (Lol, I say the same thing about this show on the Health channel called "I didn't know I was pregnant!" The punch line is the same EVERY TIME. "I was pregnant, and didn't know it!!" *gasp* Yeah, that's shocking, but when it's the case for absolutely everything.....) Gah! >,<;

The ONE exception to this was Lockon's use of Trans-Am in the last episode. I've been waiting years for someone to use a dodge and counter like that!! THAT'S HOW YOU FUCKING DO IT!! =D Much respect for you, sir! God, that made me so happy.

*This here is the biggest problem I saw for 00: it had a lack of subtlety. I guess it was simply from the way the director handled the dialogue or something, but a lot of it sounded very ham-handed to me. Oftentimes, instead of really hearing what a character was saying to someone else, it kinda sounded like the actor was talking to me, saying, "I'm developing my character!" or "I'm advancing the plot!" Saji was often the perpetrator of this, as he often has a kind of hybrid narrator/observer role as he watched Celestial Being. I know this may all sound strange, like an episode of crazy in Seraph's brain, but let me try to explain or at least give some examples.

I can identify when this happens because I happen to write a little. It happens when the writing literally tells the audience what it wants you to think instead of showing the audience how things are like and then letting you make the connection yourself. Let me try to give a few examples:

After Lyle kisses Feldt, he says to *himself** "I'm not like my brother." You know what, if he hadn't said that, I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between the two of them. I had to take his word for it.

All of Saji's talk to and about Louise....

When Saji says to CB/me** "This isn't going anywhere!" Not subtle at all. This is a really important point, but CB apparently just grimaces at Saji, and then they just ignore him and keep on doing things exactly like before.... This may have been the worst offense for me.

Setsuna's literal declarations for change. Both a good and bad thing. =) Good in that he sees the bigger picture, bad in that he's being very vague. Change how, sir? It's never discussed really.

Setsuna and Ribbon's fight dialogue. Ribbons is blaming everything on these Innovator abilities, but to me Setsuna doesn't seem any different. Ribbons is just so insistent.

And this part actually made me laugh at how ham-handed it was, but I can't believe that CB actually had the whole epic RPG final briefing where everyone exposes their reasons to fight the good fight. Sure, go ahead and assure yourself of what you're doing, but I think the choice of words in the dialogue made this waaay too obvious. And then there's Lasse's whole interrupting to the meeting to announce just how important and COOL he is!! That Lasse! :P

***

All in all, I say that 00 was a strong attempt. It was a good show, and I'll likely grow to like it more in subsequent viewings, but ultimately I think it failed to really impress/surprise me or connect with me. I never exclaimed "HOLY SHIT!!" I was never inspired to think deeply because of it. It never tugged at my heart. (Save for Colonel Smirnoff.) =) Sure it was good TV, but I don't think I'm carrying away from it anything particularly significant.

I think at this point, Sunrise and Gundam have good things going for them. They've pretty much nailed down art, animation, and production values. I think that instead, they should really work hard in the future and focus on eliminating weaknesses and quirks from future installments of Gundam. No more weirdness. Wouldn't that be nice? For once, I would like to see something that is universally loved by all Gundam fans. I know it's impossible to please everyone, but if you can make something SO wonderful and beautiful that I automatically forgive it of any flaws, then that's something I'll uphold as a classic for the rest of my life. This is not an expectation, but rather a HOPE from the bottom of my heart.

Still, I fear that Sunrise could potentially water Gundam down in the way Squre-Enix is approaching Final Fantasy. A cash cow that panders to everyone and no one. High production values. But perhaps no heart. I suppose asking to separate business from art and creativity is not a reasonable thing. Let's hope for the best.
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Rawinder
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote:I find it a bit of a leap that Katheron makes up with the Federation because of Claus and Shirin getting excited about Marina's song, especially since they aren't the only leaders in Katheron,
Between Memento Mori and the killer robots from Ghost in the Shell, a lot of those other leaders are probably dead. :P
LightningCount wrote:For that matter, the reformation of the Federation was curious. I mean, Kati went into that last battle with ONE ship--her and her loyalists who were fed up with A-LAWS after the 'Break [Pillar] Incident'. Now, Hercury had his coup contingent--I don't think a majority of them survived--but even so, could this relatively small faction within the GLOBAL federation really change its entire course and evict its current president? Seems a miraculous turnabout, particularly since the whole Innovator conflict was basically unknown by the majority of the Federation.
I don't think it's Claus and Shirin alone who are changing the course of the Federation. Once the truth about the A-LAWS got out, the Federation pretty much had no choice but to begin reform (hence Homer Katagiri's suicide and the Federation electing a new president).
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

Seraphic wrote:I seem to be a bit backwards from most of you (like usual....) since I did not really care for the first season of 00, but liked the second season better. I guess you can attribute that to the fact that the show had finished introducing stuff and was now free to just develop. And we finally had a bit of character development. I like character development.

[...]

*This here is the biggest problem I saw for 00: it had a lack of subtlety. I guess it was simply from the way the director handled the dialogue or something, but a lot of it sounded very ham-handed to me. Oftentimes, instead of really hearing what a character was saying to someone else, it kinda sounded like the actor was talking to me, saying, "I'm developing my character!" or "I'm advancing the plot!" Saji was often the perpetrator of this, as he often has a kind of hybrid narrator/observer role as he watched Celestial Being. I know this may all sound strange, like an episode of crazy in Seraph's brain, but let me try to explain or at least give some examples.

I can identify when this happens because I happen to write a little. It happens when the writing literally tells the audience what it wants you to think instead of showing the audience how things are like and then letting you make the connection yourself.
In my opinion, also coming from the perspective of a writer, it's the subtlety aspect that makes S1 significantly stronger than S2. One of the things I particularly liked about S1 was how it pursued character development through less telling and more showing, even though neither season necessarily played up to the strength of the medium in this regard.

What I can say is that what the characters became at the end of S1 was something I could easily believe in, looking back at the explicit and implicit information I had received. This wasn't the case in S2.

To me, S2's narrative structure wasn't as strong, which does make me less excited about the coming movie (though infinitely more excited than the development hellbound SEED movie), for many of the reasons Lightning Count talked about, chief among these being the less interesting, essentially two-sided conflict.

That said, and this is ultimately what kept me enthusiastic about the series, I found Setsuna's theological conflict throughout quite interesting. However, this doesn't keep me from noting that the series character balance, which I thought was fairly good for the first season, deteriorated significantly in the second. It's the sort of deterioration that makes me wonder whether the second season was quietly rewritten to be more popular with a traditionalist Japanese audience, since this team has roundly demonstrated its competence in the first season.

Ah well, that's neither here nor there, since the series is finished. It is what it is. I am still waiting patiently to see how the saga ends. I do feel the series had a great amount of potential that wasn't capitalized on and think that S1 would've been an excellent stand-alone series had it been choked up to... oh... 39 episodes. Again, though, what's done is done.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

I think in terms of characters, Al and Graham suffered fairly badly. Al basically did nothing after saving Marie and the angle with Hal was never really explored despite the S1 setup. It's like the weighed him down with certain stereotypes and demographic tickers they didn't want to stick on the other three. Graham, whilst an effective send up of the constant masked men, just became fairly flat. I know the point was he'd become an obsessive, but without the more human depth we saw before there was no meat to his constant clashes with Setsuna. Even his fate (last seen considering suicide, but apparently fine in the epilogue) was far too dusted over.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

about the auto purge on the tower i don't think the people who built it expected it to be hit with a giant lazer from orbit and all of the panels would fall at once. it was more of an small impact device to keep the central part connected to earth while the section would break up in reentry.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

Seraphic wrote:All in all, I say that 00 was a strong attempt...It never tugged at my heart. (Save for Colonel Smirnoff.) =) Sure it was good TV, but I don't think I'm carrying away from it anything particularly significant.
For me, Lockon's death and Louise's arm loss were the only moments that sold me emotionally. Sergei and Anew were in the ballpark, but didn't hit me. Regarding taking away something, that's what I find strange, because the director before Season 1 aired, intended something different in an interview: (http://www.japanator.com/an-interview-w ... 5150.phtml):

"...While this will be a drama connecting people with people or people with the world, I will not be forcing answers on them. I'm hoping this series will motivate viewers into thinking...I don't want to present a solution to this social problem [speaking of Middle East]. If young people ended up searching on the net, it would be worth making the series. Instead of just watching the events, I'm personally hoping we can approach it more closely. For us, it is hard to understand the thoughts of people who are living under war conditions, but we can know a little bit by studying. I want to absorb them and express them on film. I do believe this is a hard thing to do...It is possible to make this story a fantasy, but I didn't want to do that with this Gundam. I wanted an era based on today's world."

Granted, he said this as well, which somewhat contradicts his statement on "Fantasy"; though, he does note reflecting reality, as well:

"...I personally have no deep knowledge about UC or CE so jumping into their worlds would be inappropriate and offensive to the staff who worked on those series. To me, it made perfect sense to make this series connected to our world. By doing this, it is easier to reflect our history and blend it with the series. At this moment, I am not focusing too much about making this ultra real or serious. This is entertainment after all so I'll mirror some of the real world issues in this series like I have with the anime I worked on in the past."

...Unless you were a young kid or young teen, I don't think this series did a lot to make you really think through the political and social issues of the current world. It started out trying to include those elements, but it just glossed over them without significant depth and eventually turned into a superhero kumbaya that had nothing to do with the real world you're supposed to think about. I think the setup of this series definitely had its heart in the right place, though: energy crisis, orbital elevators, child soldiers, experimentation issues, religious extremism, ethnic conflict, arms dealing, military build-up with hints of Jingoism, terrorism, PMCs...but all that got a flyby and then was thrown out the window for Ribbon's side show.
Kenji wrote:...I found Setsuna's theological conflict throughout quite interesting. However, this doesn't keep me from noting that the series character balance, which I thought was fairly good for the first season, deteriorated significantly in the second. It's the sort of deterioration that makes me wonder whether the second season was quietly rewritten to be more popular with a traditionalist Japanese audience, since this team has roundly demonstrated its competence in the first season...I do feel the series had a great amount of potential that wasn't capitalized on and think that S1 would've been an excellent stand-alone series had it been choked up to... oh... 39 episodes. Again, though, what's done is done.
I don't think enough time was spent of Setsuna's theological conflict as the series went on. I think you might be onto something on the way the series seemed to shift gears toward more traditional elements as it went on...certainly it went away from the real-life, mirrored stories the director was talking about above. If you cut out the Innovator story, 39 episodes, with more time in the Middle East and more time with the other Meister's national backgrounds might have been closer to what I expected. Though, even that would probably be a bit too rushed. As you said, it's over with now. BUT, I'm interested to see just how condensed this series can get. The Special Editions will be a good indicator on how straightforward/glossed over the overall series was if they can fit the whole story of Season 1 neatly in just one movie :!:
Seraphic wrote:Why did stabbing the Masurao's shoulders suddenly cause its helm to explode?? O_o Were they just trying really hard to reveal it was a Flag, but couldn't find a better way to do it?
True; but to be fair, they kind of did that when Zechs' mask "broke" in wing. As cool/poetic as that was, to this day, the only logical reason I can come up with for that was the pressure of the Tallgeese's previous velocity, combined with the change in pressure from being underwater and the concussive metal reverberations of torpedoes & a large sub blowing up. Now, in the case of the Masurao, perhaps the reverberations and force of the shoulder explosions carried up to its head section? (That doesn't change the fact that the Masurao wasn't half as cool as any of the Flags :D Why were all of Graham's custom machines thrown into Season 2 so weak and short-lived?)
Seraphic wrote:...Setsuna had fulfilled his ambition in becoming God, becoming Gundam. And through that he could make people understand each other. I appreciated both the symbolism and the literalism of that. This sets me apart from most people, but I appreciated the fact that 00 had a method for all people to understand each other, even if it's something that WE can never have. You'll find that I'm not a person that is bitter about things being fictitious, but can appreciate when people look for solutions, even if they only exist in the story.
I can understand this perspective, but what bothered me was that it was a supernatural device entered late in the story that allowed them to close it off, like a Deus Ex Machina. It particularly bothered me since this is supposed to be an A.D. future. And yes, MS are largely fantasy, but they have a technological grounding and are expected, inherent devices to a future war story that allow the story to play out in a contrasting, human manner.
Seraphic wrote:Ribbons...c'mon, man. Setsuna was obviously going to STAB you with that last attack.
Yes, this last battle was not very compelling, and the final showdown between 0 Gundam and Exia R2 made Ribbons look like a really bad pilot.
Seraphic wrote:...Patrick, lol.
Patrick is a sign of the series' problems. It's a testament to how a lot of the characters were handled--the easy way out. Who said Patrick had to be the Team Rocket slapstick man? In episode 1, he is cocky but competent, flying around and taking out targets with more aerobatic maneuvers than we see in a majority of the series. I expected him to be a loudmouth, but I didn't expect him to be a goofball and a poor pilot who survives by flukes. He's a man who was good at mock battles, and therefore should have wanted to push himself to be an true "ace" in real battles. The Gundams should have honed and focused his skills. His visual design was very cool, and ended up wasted. Plus, the Kati "romance" was just random and forced.
Seraphic wrote:I think the motion blur was somewhat overused in the fight scenes. And after a while, I got really tired of mobile suits flying in and out of "the camera". Yeah, it looks dynamic, but nothing should be overused. Perhaps zoom out a bit so I can try to follow what you're doin'?
This really came in during Season 2 as far as I recall. Or at least, was tons more prevalent. It shocks me that for how good and non-recycled most of the animation was, a lot of the choreography didn't feel particularly memorable or dynamic. The motion blur hurt more than it helped. I came away feeling like the A-LAWS were less exciting combatants than the Mobile Dolls of Wing, which have gotten flak over the years for being "soulless."
Seraphic wrote:I didn't like Ali. Instead of the Gundam Meisters really dealing with their traumatic pasts or personal sins, they just kinda blamed this a**hole for all of it. It's harder to make things right and forgive yourself than it is to just kill some jerk. This was a damn shame.

Graham....seemingly didn't accomplish anything for the series overall?? A break-down of the masked-man archetype, you say? Well, I never bought into the whole Char-clone thing. I just saw everybody as their own character. Graham kinda just got in a few fights and then trailed off.... Perhaps not a good use of character investment or screen time? =(
Ali was almost pointless after Season 1. They needed him to stoke some emotions/grudges and have a credible combatant in S2, but his story was done in Season 1 when Lockon sacrificed himself to "kill" him. The fact that they stopped using Ali halfway through Season 1 as a symbol of Setsuna's theological conflict made him less important even before that point, though. For that matter, don't even know at what point he got mixed up with Laguna Harvey and Alejandro.

...As Hellcat said, Graham was short-changed. Like you noted, he wasn't particularly a Char-clone, even though he was supposed to fit that role to some extent. He was an interesting military man in most of Season 1 (for what little time he got even then). I think Graham had some of the standout dialogue in the series, and that if given more time and importance, he would have gone down to be very memorable. He didn't really need the whole mask story attached to him.
Seraphic wrote:(And while I'm trying to figure people out, just what the hell was up with Lasse??? Were they just trying really hard to make him look cool or something? I didn't buy it, lol. Sorry. Limited screen time, sir. Get the hell off the screen!) ...And then there's Lasse's whole interrupting the meeting to announce just how important and COOL he is!! That Lasse! :P =/
LASSE!!! :lol: Oh man, Lasse cracks me up. I like that he tries to do more than just be a fly on the wall, but he was a muscle-head in Season 1 (no more important than any other bridge member, if that) that they elevated to a CB mascot/pseudo-Gundam Meister. His miraculous survival in Season 1, and his whole plot of being sick ended up in him being miraculously cured. I don't know. Whatever they were trying to do with him, it didn't really add up for me. But he was amusing nonetheless. :P
Seraphic wrote:The Trans-Am spamming got a little stale. If there's ever ANY trouble at all, you can promise yourself that the solution is going to be Trans-Am, in every episode.
This became crazier than SEED mode in Cosmic Era. And then they pulled out 'Trans-Am Burst' out of thin air, because Trans-Am wasn't crazy enough! lol. Trans-Am was cool at first, but Season 2 did it to death. There's actually one point in the last few episodes where Ptolemaios II does a Trans-Am dash WITHOUT any Gundam Solar Reactors on board to smash into Ribbons base. I don't know if that's even possible.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

I don't agree Trans-Am Burst came out of nowhere. According to the backstory it was always intended to be the Trans-Am Mode for Twin Drive but couldn't be achieved without an Innovator to complete the circuit. Setsuna's evolution was gradual, hence the fact it didn't appear until he'd finished his GN caused mutation. Really I see it as consistent with how CB treats any other system they produced. 00 Raiser's true power was that it basically removed the will to fight from opponents via Quantum Brainwaves and GN Particles. Makes perfect sense to me that the true power of the system would be a focussed form of that over the earlier "Now I kill yo-...why are we all naked and floaty?"
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote:Sergei and Anew were in the ballpark, but didn't hit me.
Maybe Sergei's death would have had a greater impact if you had actually seen it. :P
LightningCount wrote:...Unless you were a young kid or young teen, I don't think this series did a lot to make you really think through the political and social issues of the current world.
But Gundam is aimed at kids and teens. I think (or rather, would hope) that older viewers are already aware of these issues and don't need to learn about them through a cartoon.
LightningCount wrote:Yes, this last battle was not very compelling, and the final showdown between 0 Gundam and Exia R2 made Ribbons look like a really bad pilot.
I think the fact that Ribbons survives for as long as he does is actually a testament to his piloting skills. Pitting the 0 Gundam against the Exia...come on, that's like the RX-78 fighting the Zeta, it's no contest. That Ribbons is able to keep up (to an extent) and even get some hits in kind of shows that he's the superior pilot. Hell, if he hadn't been so arrogant and thrown his shield away, he might have won.
LightningCount wrote:Patrick is a sign of the series' problems. It's a testament to how a lot of the characters were handled--the easy way out. Who said Patrick had to be the Team Rocket slapstick man? In episode 1, he is cocky but competent, flying around and taking out targets with more aerobatic maneuvers than we see in a majority of the series. I expected him to be a loudmouth, but I didn't expect him to be a goofball and a poor pilot who survives by flukes. He's a man who was good at mock battles, and therefore should have wanted to push himself to be an true "ace" in real battles. The Gundams should have honed and focused his skills. His visual design was very cool, and ended up wasted. Plus, the Kati "romance" was just random and forced.
Patrick is a joke character and always has been since the first episode. Even so, he's definitely not a poor pilot, he's just not a serious character, like Graham or Soma.

And I don't think his romance with Kati was random or forced, he was fawning over her every chance he got. If anything felt forced, it was Kati agreeing to marry him, but even that isn't so random since she had obviously grown fond of him by the end of the series.
LightningCount wrote:For that matter, don't even know at what point he got mixed up with Laguna Harvey and Alejandro.
Alejandro became aware of what Laguna was doing when he hacked into VEDA (or maybe some point before that, I can't remember). Seems clear to me that he would become aware of Ali at that same point and just hire him out.
LightningCount wrote: There's actually one point in the last few episodes where Ptolemaios II does a Trans-Am dash WITHOUT any Gundam Solar Reactors on board to smash into Ribbons base. I don't know if that's even possible.
Trans-Am isn't something that requires a GN Drive; a solar reactor is only needed if you want to sustain Trans-Am for any decent amount of time. So the Ptolemy can use Trans-Am on its own, but it only lasts for a couple seconds (and this is shown in the animation, where the ship goes Trans-Am and powers down literally a few seconds later).
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

Dark Duel wrote:It was in the broadcast - Saji looks over at the TV and comments that there are people from Katharon present at the Federation assembly, and it shows both Shirin and Claus, as well as the Anew-like Innovade in the background.
It cuts what comes after though--Klaus and Shirin talking about how the world just starts to change and they still have a lot to do (or something to that effect). The closeup on the Anew lookalike is also originally longer. In the original broadcast I was wondering why the long focus on this Innovade, in contrast to the other embedded Innovades that's just shown briefly.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote: ...Unless you were a young kid or young teen, I don't think this series did a lot to make you really think through the political and social issues of the current world. It started out trying to include those elements, but it just glossed over them without significant depth and eventually turned into a superhero kumbaya that had nothing to do with the real world you're supposed to think about.
And thus, especially considering the target audience, your expectations were a wee too high there. :P Compared to other Gundam series, 00 still in all this took a more serious in depth look at politics and social issues than past series, and to a more believable degree as well given the medium we're talking here. Were you truly expecting a deep down, highly politicized, thought provoking philosophical series even though much of the franchise's main draw involves colourful robots? :P Me, I was more amazed at the fact that 00 even bothered to get as political as it did, not to mention even touch on the subject that series like SEED and Wing propagated: peace via armed conflict and the consequences of those actions.
Patrick is a sign of the series' problems. It's a testament to how a lot of the characters were handled--the easy way out. Who said Patrick had to be the Team Rocket slapstick man? In episode 1, he is cocky but competent, flying around and taking out targets with more aerobatic maneuvers than we see in a majority of the series. I expected him to be a loudmouth, but I didn't expect him to be a goofball and a poor pilot who survives by flukes. He's a man who was good at mock battles, and therefore should have wanted to push himself to be an true "ace" in real battles. The Gundams should have honed and focused his skills. His visual design was very cool, and ended up wasted. Plus, the Kati "romance" was just random and forced.
But... since the beatdown from Setsuna in the very first episode, which was not very long into the said episode, he was already established as the joke of the series. The guy was practically gloating about being about how great he is, and all over his prowess over training above all else, then predictably gets his butt handed to him when a real enemy shows up, and you're telling me that he wasn't destined to be the butt joke? :p Same with the Kati romance. The guy was a stubborn fool for her for much of the series, and given how many times he got blasted, it'd be a darn shame if the two didn't end up together for his sake.

A better example of dropping the ball on characters would be Marina. I thought she truly had alot of potential as the tragic figurehead of a dying nation with as much potential to help lead both protagonist and world alike in a different direction, yet in the end she was so underused that you might as well not bother keeping her there. It really is too bad, because I was one of the few who liked her. She's the poster girl of 00's cast of 'ZHEY DO NOTHING!' Mind you, I prefer her not doing a whole lot over, say, Lacus for sticking her nose too much.
Graham....seemingly didn't accomplish anything for the series overall?? A break-down of the masked-man archetype, you say? Well, I never bought into the whole Char-clone thing. I just saw everybody as their own character. Graham kinda just got in a few fights and then trailed off.... Perhaps not a good use of character investment or screen time? =(
If Marina makes for the poster girl, Graham would be the poster boy. He was simply underused, albeit nowhere as bad as Marina ended up. Most have said that Graham ended up nothing but a joke in the second season, and they don't mean that in a good way either. He really didn't make for a compelling rival to Setsuna the way Ali did, and that's truly a downfall I see in his character.
This became crazier than SEED mode in Cosmic Era. And then they pulled out 'Trans-Am Burst' out of thin air, because Trans-Am wasn't crazy enough! lol. Trans-Am was cool at first, but Season 2 did it to death. There's actually one point in the last few episodes where Ptolemaios II does a Trans-Am dash WITHOUT any Gundam Solar Reactors on board to smash into Ribbons base. I don't know if that's even possible.
Trans Am was not so bad if it's not being used by the 00 Raiser. Pretty much as the series wore on, no one could touch 00 Raiser even in it's 'normal' Trans Am level. That, and the Gagas being Trans Am suicide missiles, though they're ridiculous for a different reason. Everyone else who has pulled a Trans Am (including even the Reborns Gundam) didn't seem so bad at all.

And as mentioned, Trans Am does not require GN Drives to work. The actual mechanism to perform the move is actually separate from GN Drives as established in the supplementary write-ups on the AD universe. What it does require are GN Particles, which the Ptolemy II would've had even after the Gundams were deployed. When the show established the fact that Trans Am can also be accomplished with Tau Drives, suddenly it wasn't even a stretch to think that, at least for a short duration, a machine with condensers would also be capable of performing Trans Am as well.

Overall, I still like the series, but I also have to agree that it did drop the ball enough times to keep it from being the best, the most original Gundam series made. For me, Turn A Gundam still remains as the most radical and best series in the franchise.
Rawinder wrote:Maybe Sergei's death would have had a greater impact if you had actually seen it. :P
Wait, they cut up that scene? Fans all around saluted sergei and cried over his death for a good reason here, and they cut it up?
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

patrick was the AEU ace only because of his simulator scores. Basically he was the "video game gundam fan" who boasted about his abilty to over come computer oppoents and has the delusion that real ms will play fair. only for a gundam to show up with someone who actually knows combat. graham and sergei actually saw real combat and provided a true threat to the gundams.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

There's some responses to be made here, so watch out, Tallgeese coming through! :P

Firstly, to all those who explained the Trans-Am's "science," I see how it could work now with the Ptolomy II. Thank you. I still find Trans-Am Burst to be out of nowhere, though, given that the "pure-blood Innovator" was an idea put so late in the series that came to dominate the series. (I mean, elements that important, like Newtype or Coordinator, are usually revealed earlier on so you can get comfortable with the supernatural idea co-existing with the characters. Throughout Season 1, the idea of Quantum Brainwaves were highlighted as part of "super soldiers," and the central idea of Innovator/Innovades was not there at all--leaving me to believe that Tieria, Ribbons, and Nena were essentially bio-androids or Ghost in the Shell-esque cyborgs at that point. How was I to get comfortable with the idea that there would be god-like beings coming?). And, as was noted, 00 Raiser in Trans-Am was overly tough enough without another level of ability. But that's just my beef, and a very tiny one at that.
Aegis wrote:
LightningCount wrote: ...Unless you were a young kid or young teen, I don't think this series did a lot to make you really think through the political and social issues of the current world. It started out trying to include those elements, but it just glossed over them without significant depth and eventually turned into a superhero kumbaya that had nothing to do with the real world you're supposed to think about.
And thus, especially considering the target audience, your expectations were a wee too high there. :P Compared to other Gundam series, 00 still in all this took a more serious in depth look at politics and social issues than past series, and to a more believable degree as well given the medium we're talking here. Were you truly expecting a deep down, highly politicized, thought provoking philosophical series even though much of the franchise's main draw involves colourful robots? :P Me, I was more amazed at the fact that 00 even bothered to get as political as it did, not to mention even touch on the subject that series like SEED and Wing propagated: peace via armed conflict and the consequences of those actions.
OK, somebody give me a break here. :roll: First off, mecha series are not off-limits to adult political science--case in point, SUNRISE's own Gasaraki. (And Gundam is no stranger to politics, either). For that matter, 00 was meant as a "third pillar," leaving its age content flexible, and the director said he wanted to look at issues more closely as he started the series in those interviews I noted. This same director ended up doing more religious/ethnic conflict politics in his FullMetal Alchemist, and that was a story about the mythical Philosopher's Stone!

Secondly, I'm tired of this ridiculous, repeated claim on these boards that 00 blew Wing and SEED out of the water for social-political maturity. That's like saying cliff notes had more depth than a book. Let's look at Wing: The Wing guys "changed the world" with their "interventions," too--they were tricked into assassinating the moderate leaders of the Alliance, leaving OZ to do its thing. And you see time and again how that conflict action-reaction evolves between the ideals of peace and war through coups, assassinations, martial law, villagers getting beaten up & stores trashed, media manipulation, refugee lines, rebel camps getting blown up, soldiers becoming confused or radical enough to start executing without mercy; disarmament and rearmament negotiations, nations rising and falling, the Romefeller's expansion of global arms, the push for automations as nation police, the Gundam pilots being betrayed and isolated by their own homeland-colonies, etc. That more consistently "showed" better than 00 "told." If 00 had done even that much with its politics, it would have gone a long way toward satisfying me.
Aegis wrote:
LightningCount wrote:Patrick is a sign of the series' problems. It's a testament to how a lot of the characters were handled--the easy way out. Who said Patrick had to be the Team Rocket slapstick man? In episode 1, he is cocky but competent, flying around and taking out targets with more aerobatic maneuvers than we see in a majority of the series. I expected him to be a loudmouth, but I didn't expect him to be a goofball and a poor pilot who survives by flukes. He's a man who was good at mock battles, and therefore should have wanted to push himself to be an true "ace" in real battles. The Gundams should have honed and focused his skills. His visual design was very cool, and ended up wasted. Plus, the Kati "romance" was just random and forced.
But... since the beatdown from Setsuna in the very first episode, which was not very long into the said episode, he was already established as the joke of the series. The guy was practically gloating about being about how great he is, and all over his prowess over training above all else, then predictably gets his butt handed to him when a real enemy shows up, and you're telling me that he wasn't destined to be the butt joke?


Tell me, did Wing or SEED, or a majority of Gundam for that matter have a guy as over-the-top, Saturday-morning-cartoon goofy as this in a war drama? It's a waste of a character and a disservice to representing a side in the conflict. His course was undetermined by his failure in his first battle in Season 1. We've seen plenty of anime military pilots as boastful as that take their licks, like Isamu Dyson from Macross Plus, but they don't let that loudmouthed boastfulness turn into raw, Three-Stooges slapstick. Even the annoying, loudmouthed 0083's Moncha can be taken more seriously. After episode 1, I had no idea that Patrick would turn into such a butt of all jokes, so it bothered me.
Aegis wrote:
Rawinder wrote:Maybe Sergei's death would have had a greater impact if you had actually seen it. :P
Wait, they cut up that scene? Fans all around saluted sergei and cried over his death for a good reason here, and they cut it up?
A few more frames and a bloody face doesn't change the fact that the whole situation was put upon us: the sudden rush of flashbacks in the previous/same episode, and then Andrei's laughable, irrational assertions against his father. Maybe if Andrei wasn't such an idiot and the whole thing wasn't spur of the moment (much like Nena's Halavy wedding "fun"), it would have been more tragic.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

LightningCount wrote:Tell me, did Wing or SEED, or a majority of Gundam for that matter have a guy as over-the-top, Saturday-morning-cartoon goofy as this in a war drama?
You rang?
LightningCount wrote:It's a waste of a character and a disservice to representing a side in the conflict.
The AEU also has Mannequin.
LightningCount wrote:A few more frames and a bloody face doesn't change the fact that the whole situation was put upon us: the sudden rush of flashbacks in the previous/same episode, and then Andrei's laughable, irrational assertions against his father. Maybe if Andrei wasn't such an idiot and the whole thing wasn't spur of the moment (much like Nena's Halavy wedding "fun"), it would have been more tragic.
But Andrei acting irrational and spur-of-the-moment was what made it tragic. I'm really not sure what you're complaining about here.
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

There was an instrumental song in episode 24, before the mid-way commercial break/logo, that wasn't on any of the soundtracks. Does anyone know where to get it? It's a beautiful piece, maybe a slight version of "Trust You".
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Re: The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

eanetdude wrote:There was an instrumental song in episode 24, before the mid-way commercial break/logo, that wasn't on any of the soundtracks. Does anyone know where to get it? It's a beautiful piece, maybe a slight version of "Trust You".
The single of Trust You has an instrumental version just like any other single for Japanese music. I have a feeling the song was one of the BGM versions of "Tomorrow" that were only released on the Single. Hope that helps.
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