The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Dub Thread

[flabortast00]

I wonder why Tieria didn't delete Ribbons from VEDA though. Will he have a role in the movie.

[vertu]

Are people seriously wondering how Azadistan was rebuilt at the end of the series? You forget Ali only attacked the capital city and burnt down the most important facilities, not the entirety of the city or the country. Also, why would the ESF leave the capital in ruins once they had complete control over the country?

[hellbore]

...Speaking just more generally for once, there's something familiar about the Reborns Gundam. At first I thought it reminded me of RahXephon (especially in that shot Strike Zero has for his profile pic) but that's not really it when I look closely. There's something about the shape of its head/face and coloring that looks like some other mecha...not necessarily from Gundam, though. It escapes me. Probably just a case of unexplainable deja vu or something.

Later information told us that the Reborns Gundam was created using data from Exia originally. The face still has similarities, even even the addition of the Cannon mode and other upgrades, most similarities have been lost.

[Dark Duel]

I wonder why Tieria didn't delete Ribbons from VEDA though. Will he have a role in the movie.

Tieria/Regene (not sure which, if not both) kicked Ribbons off of Veda in last week's episodes.
Ribbons'd thus been cut off from Veda, so the link between his consciousness and Veda presumably was cut at this point as well.

Honestly, I hope we don't see him again - it'd be nice to see a villain whose name didn't make me want to laugh every time anyone says it.

[LightningCount]

Honestly, I hope we don't see him again - it'd be nice to see a villain whose name didn't make me want to laugh every time anyone says it.

Agreed. I didn't like Ribbons as a main villain. Despite Alejandro's over-the-top quirks near the end of Season 1, I found him to be a more credible character and likable main villain.

...Just for kicks, I've put together a list of the scenes I personally feel need to be in the October Japanese Special Edition Compilation 1 release. If it has at least these, it's a done deal for me:

-Krugis Prologue (ep.1)
-Exia vs. Enact (ep.1)
-Exia/Dynames vs. Hellions (ep.1)
-Kyrios/Virtue vs. Space Terrorists (ep.1)
-Exia/Dynames vs. Ceylon Rebels vs. HRL (ep.2)
-Exia vs. Graham Pt.1 (ep.2/3)
-Exia vs. Sergei (ep.3)
-Taribia conflict (ep.4)
-Moralia conflict (ep.6/7)
-Exia vs. Ali (ep.6/7)
-Dynames vs. Graham (ep.12)
-Exia vs. Azadistan Army (ep.12)
-Gundams vs. UN Desert Exercise (ep.15)
-Graham vs. Johan (ep.18)
-Trans-Am Exia vs. Ali (ep.22)
-Dynames vs. Ali (ep.23)
-Alejandro vs. Exia (ep.25)
-Graham vs. Exia finale (ep.25)

I know that won't cover the "story," but it'd be nice to see these animation scenes in a tight package.

[Rawinder]

Honestly, I hope we don't see him again - it'd be nice to see a villain whose name didn't make me want to laugh every time anyone says it.

Agreed. I didn't like Ribbons as a main villain. Despite Alejandro's over-the-top quirks near the end of Season 1, I found him to be a more credible character and likable main villain.

Alejandro was likable?

I thought he was a pretty boring character, myself. Ribbons was pretty one-dimensional too, but at least he made up for it with some occasional "gotcha!" moments and a pretty badass fight in episode 25.

Personally, my favorite villain of the series--as a character--was Al Al-Saachez.

[LightningCount]

Alejandro was likable?

I thought he was a pretty boring character, myself. Ribbons was pretty one-dimensional too, but at least he made up for it with some occasional "gotcha!" moments and a pretty badass fight in episode 25.

Personally, my favorite villain of the series--as a character--was Al Al-Saachez.

Compared to the whiny, androgynous, bell-bottoms-wearing waif that was Ribbons (who got his butt handed to him in 0 Gundam/RX-78), Alejandro earned some extra credit from me. Not saying he's great, but there was more to work with IMO.

Now, Al-Saachez was more credible as a combatant, but what bothered me was that he was essentially a maniac with no higher ambitions. When he took on that Gary guise, I started to think he might end up an AEU mole that's inserted into terrorist cells and other like situations to stir up arms deals and war profits. Instead, he was an adrenaline junky when it comes down to it. Plus, once he got under Ribbon's thumb, he became a goofy lapdog that seemed more like a violent Saturday morning cartoon villain. Regardless, he probably was the most threatening opponent among the cast.

[JEFFPIATT]

Alejandro was one fluffy cat away from being a bond villain. Ribbons ended up becomeing just like him he had his whole god complex fall apart around him. the biggest hit to his ego had to be what he thought was his devoted follower basically tell him to his face that he was no god. he got so desperate by the final battle he thought he could take on a 3.5 gen gundam in the system prototype rather than cutting and running setsuns was not only in a more advanced suit he was the better fighter.

[Dark Duel]

My problem with Ribbons was really just his name. Well that and the fact that he's probably the least threatening-looking male character in the entire series except for Patrick and Saji.
But mainly his name. I mean, RIBBONS fer chrissakes. Who could possibly take seriously a villain who's named after something girls put in their hair?

[Imperial]

ShadowCell once concocted a great explanation for that. Let me see if I can convey the spirit of it (I lost the actual turn of phrase some time ago).

The name, Ribbons, is dastardly simply because it is the sort of thing we would never see coming.

When Alejandro's effeminate man-child came waltzing on screen, did any of us take him for anything more than a handy lackey? I know that's all I really expected out of him. If you would have told me in the home stretch of season 1, even after he showed off his VEDA-hacking credentials, that he was the big mover and shaker of the show, I would have scoffed at the absurdity of it all. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED US TO THINK!

The man is so smooth he can put one over on the audience. His schemes reach past the fourth wall. Haman and Sirocco have nothing on that.

[ShadowCell]

Hell, he may even be so smooth that not even the writers know what his plans are.

[LightningCount]

Hell, he may even be so smooth that not even the writers know what his plans are.

Heh. Now that I wouldn't doubt... Like people said, Ribbons being anything more than Alejandro's odd lackey and an anti-Tieria "bio-android" was a big surprise. But the problem was, it was such a surprise it was like: "What? Seriously?" (Being a counter to Tieria was good enough for me; he didn't need to be the man behind the curtain, especially since he didn't have the foot size to fill those shoes, IMO.) It's interesting to note that with Ribbon's rise, the series took a decidedly stronger "sci-fi fantasy" tone about it, more akin to something along the lines of Gurren Lagaan in its cast of weirdo enemies (people wearing loose satin loungewear with colored-coded hair and kooky names) and super powers. For that matter, there's a lot of mystery behind how Ribbons and Alejandro got so close and how Ribbons stayed off CB's map for so long before taking control of Veda. Well, anyway, I agree with Alejandro: "RIBBONS! You're fired!!!"

And one last note on Alejandro: Yes, the "gold" stuff was what made him Bond-esque, but gold plating is a part of Gundam via Zeta and DESTINY, and before he got his "Golden Gun" on, he was a character that was trying to be in the realm of Gundam schemers like Durandal and Treize, albeit much, much weaker. I liked how he was a political/businessman type, though, but he never got enough screen time, which should have signaled that he wasn't important. (At least he had his "Corner family dream"). And those other Observers...killed off camera. Yeah... (Aeolia reawakening from cold sleep and more intrigue from the ambiguous Observers were things I thought were on the horizon during Season 1).

[Dark Duel]

The man is so smooth he can put one over on the audience. His schemes reach past the fourth wall.

That's actually something that amused me a bit was how 00 S2 kicked a hole in the fourth wall a couple of times.

[Rawinder]

Compared to the whiny, androgynous, bell-bottoms-wearing waif that was Ribbons (who got his butt handed to him in 0 Gundam/RX-78),

I don't think you could really call Ribbons whiny.

Now, Al-Saachez was more credible as a combatant, but what bothered me was that he was essentially a maniac with no higher ambitions.

That's what I liked about him! So many Gundam villains have delusions of grandeur and illusions of greatness surrounding them, but at their core, they're just one-dimensional, power-hungry megalomaniacs. With Ali, there is no pretense. He embraces that maniacal side right from the start, which makes him all the more fun to watch.

Not to mention, he's pretty effective at his job. How many other villains can claim to have killed three Gundam pilots?

[Imperial]

I don't think you could really call Ribbons whiny.

Whiny? Perhaps not, but he was certainly quite petulant. When things don't go his way, he starts glassing entire countries like he's playing a game of Whack-a-Mole on a global scale.

Really, "whiny" or not is just a measure of scale. Most whiny people don't have an army at their beck and call, so there's point in paying attention to them. When those whiny people do happen to get some juice, giant naked albino girls start turning the world into Tang. Deliciously Freudian, terrifying Tang

[HellCat]

I'm not going to call the show flawless (I was nitpicking season 2 alot myself a few months back) but I will echo that the movie is yet to come. Mizushima has said the ending for the show was changed once they were told to create an opening for an ending. Therefore it's natural to assume that alot of the dangling plot threads will be addressed there, ESPECIALLY since the epilogue has all the Meisters comment they will continue to fight and pay the price when their job is done. It's still a work in progress. I can think of any number of earlier Gundam shows which had the characters warble on about paying for their sins but by the end made the pilots out to be saints. 00 hasn't even done that. CB are still on the run and will be targetted as soon as they strike again. The Federation used them to off Ribbons but still considers them enemies. The moral ambiguity may have been lost somewhat in season 2 but I remain confident this production team will deliver an ultimate ending that fits all the build up. They're very good at doing that

[Imperial]

I'm not going to call the show flawless (I was nitpicking season 2 alot myself a few months back) but I will echo that the movie is yet to come. Mizushima has said the ending for the show was changed once they were told to create an opening for an ending. Therefore it's natural to assume that alot of the dangling plot threads will be addressed there, ESPECIALLY since the epilogue has all the Meisters comment they will continue to fight and pay the price when their job is done. It's still a work in progress. I can think of any number of earlier Gundam shows which had the characters warble on about paying for their sins but by the end made the pilots out to be saints. 00 hasn't even done that. CB are still on the run and will be targetted as soon as they strike again. The Federation used them to off Ribbons but still considers them enemies. The moral ambiguity may have been lost somewhat in season 2 but I remain confident this production team will deliver an ultimate ending that fits all the build up. They're very good at doing that

Not to insult you, but I have no faith in the "If X does it, then it's okay for Y!" argument. Yes, other Gundam shows have made the same mistake of lionizing its otherwise morally dubious protagonists (Gundam SEED Destiny spawned a cottage industry about this), casting off the moral grays in favor of absolutes (I'm looking at you, Zeta Gundam), or featuring some of the most tepid romances around (pick a Gundam, any Gundam), but none of these things absolve 00 of its shortcomings. Are we supposed to take the mediocre moments that 00 served up and be grateful for them simply because it's Gundam tradition to handle these things poorly?

(Again, I don't mean to come off as too aggressive, but I've seen this argument bandied about so much that is has begun to rankle.)

With the way the movie has been set up, I very much doubt we will see that much-hinted-at comeuppance. Celestial Being's entire purpose is to pave the way for the dialogues to come. If they're essential to resolving whatever man-alien conflict that has been rather deeply suggested, how can Celestial Being not emerge as the glorious saviors of Mankind? Of course, the movie has yet to air even in Japan, so I'm whining in future tense at this point.

However, that doesn't address the very real issues that plagued 00, which, as it stands, is a complete series, epilogue movie or no.

[Rawinder]

With the way the movie has been set up, I very much doubt we will see that much-hinted-at comeuppance. Celestial Being's entire purpose is to pave the way for the dialogues to come. If they're essential to resolving whatever man-alien conflict that has been rather deeply suggested, how can Celestial Being not emerge as the glorious saviors of Mankind? Of course, the movie has yet to air even in Japan, so I'm whining in future tense at this point.

I think you're incorrect here. Celestial Being's purpose is not to pave the way for space exploration or "the dialogues to come"; that responsibility partly belongs to the Innovades (and I say partly because the Innovades are not responsible for the actual migration to space, they're just supposed to help set the stage for that).

The only part of Aeolia's plan that involves CB is the first phase: uniting the world through armed interventions. Remember that Celestial Being was supposed to be completely destroyed at the end of S1; their continued existence in S2 is a pretty large deviation from the plan.

Truthfully, I wouldn't be surprised if CB did emerge as heroes at the end of the movie, if only because I could see fanservice start to dominate storytelling (as in the case of SEED Destiny). But as far as the plot goes, CB has long since accomplished their only goal.

[HellCat]

I'm not going to call the show flawless (I was nitpicking season 2 alot myself a few months back) but I will echo that the movie is yet to come. Mizushima has said the ending for the show was changed once they were told to create an opening for an ending. Therefore it's natural to assume that alot of the dangling plot threads will be addressed there, ESPECIALLY since the epilogue has all the Meisters comment they will continue to fight and pay the price when their job is done. It's still a work in progress. I can think of any number of earlier Gundam shows which had the characters warble on about paying for their sins but by the end made the pilots out to be saints. 00 hasn't even done that. CB are still on the run and will be targetted as soon as they strike again. The Federation used them to off Ribbons but still considers them enemies. The moral ambiguity may have been lost somewhat in season 2 but I remain confident this production team will deliver an ultimate ending that fits all the build up. They're very good at doing that

Not to insult you, but I have no faith in the "If X does it, then it's okay for Y!" argument. Yes, other Gundam shows have made the same mistake of lionizing its otherwise morally dubious protagonists (Gundam SEED Destiny spawned a cottage industry about this), casting off the moral grays in favor of absolutes (I'm looking at you, Zeta Gundam), or featuring some of the most tepid romances around (pick a Gundam, any Gundam), but none of these things absolve 00 of its shortcomings. Are we supposed to take the mediocre moments that 00 served up and be grateful for them simply because it's Gundam tradition to handle these things poorly?

(Again, I don't mean to come off as too aggressive, but I've seen this argument bandied about so much that is has begun to rankle.)

With the way the movie has been set up, I very much doubt we will see that much-hinted-at comeuppance. Celestial Being's entire purpose is to pave the way for the dialogues to come. If they're essential to resolving whatever man-alien conflict that has been rather deeply suggested, how can Celestial Being not emerge as the glorious saviors of Mankind? Of course, the movie has yet to air even in Japan, so I'm whining in future tense at this point.

However, that doesn't address the very real issues that plagued 00, which, as it stands, is a complete series, epilogue movie or no.

What I'm saying is that other shows HAVE made that mistake whilst 00 has yet to. It it ultimately does, sure, complain if you dislike it. But at the minute the narrative is incomplete. The movie may well end with CB being trotted off to prison. Either way, until it happens we can't say. If you want to go by how the show itself ended, they're isolated and on the run. Hardly a heroes' welcome.

[LightningCount]

But at the minute the narrative is incomplete.

Ironically, we could say the same thing about Gundam SEED Destiny. There was a movie to cap it off, too; though it's currently in development hell.

Sorry, couldn't resist. But anyway, any "punishment" of CB seems irrelevant at this point, because, as noted in this thread, they've crossed the point of their reason for being in Aeolia's plan. Kati's "threats" don't seem to phase them, as Setsuna, Sumeragi, and co seem more than ready to keep doing their thing. (Lyle even talks about how he's going to go on as a full-time Gundam Meister; he's quitting Katheron. Which is funny, because I have no idea what he's going to do as a Gundam pilot unless fighting breaks out quickly). These are just the way I see things, though. The movie can still be entertaining, but I don't know if satisfying things this late will fix the rest for people who were bugged by the series' overall execution.

Speaking of Katheron, did they join the Federation? Because they hated the Federation, and it wasn't just because of the A-LAWS. They didn't like the Federation itself and wanted it overthrown, whereas CB only wanted A-LAWS gone (according to the episode where Sumeragi first meets with Claus).