The Official Gundam 00 Season 1 Thread Mk I

[ZeonsSilverStar]

My only complaint is how SciFi cut the epilogue but other than that went fine.

I also enjoyed the little back and forth between Graham and Setsuna.

[mrliy]

Loved the last episode, and pissed about the epilogue...

Sad about Setsuna's and Graham's fight. It just seemed too forced at the end. Almost as if to say, Hey we forgot about Graham!! Oh just put him behind Alejandro. Seems to me that the fight could have lasted one episode not the last 2-3 mins. Maybe I'm just too much of a Graham fan. I was also left a little curious about the masked character. Was his hair blonde? which would probably instantly point to Graham.

As much as I think the Masked villain archetype is an integral part of Gundam, it would have been nice to have left it off this time around. You know for varieties sake.

[ShadowCell]

Yes, the masked character's hair is blond. Beyond that, I will not say.

[Kavik Ryx]

Well, with any luck, the dvds will be out soon, allowing everyone to witness the epilogue.

[RedBlitz]

I still find it kinda stupid that they cut the epilogue, that was easilly one of the coolest segments in the first season of Gundam 00. Seeing that Gundam fly away in the distance with all those particles spewing out had me squealing ike a little girl!!

[frezik]

As much as I think the Masked villain archetype is an integral part of Gundam, it would have been nice to have left it off this time around. You know for varieties sake.

I'll give you this much: Gundam 00 will have its own little twist on the idea, as it so often does.

EDIT: Post edited to remove spoilers. Seriously, guys, it's condescending of you to barge into this thread and go "I know things that you don't know." Treat this thread as though you have never seen season two before.

~ShadowCell

[mrliy]

Dont know if anyone has pointed this out, but you can get the epilogue on youtube it'll be subbed but it gets the job done. I was online looking for it within seconds of seeing Sci Fi screw it up. It did ruin the cinematic feel

[ORegan]

Am I the only one who thought of the Jetsons when hearing Alejandro yell "RIBOOOOONS"...I was literally waiting for him to say "You're fired!"

But I wonder, since Hal/Al was each 1/2 super soldier*making them the first fusing between personalities that I've ever witnessed* and combined to become perfect, which one had which part of the mentioned choices of Reflexes and Instict? I like to assume Hal is Instinct, since he's inclined to do whatever needed to survive.

[Cygnwulf]

But I wonder, since Hal/Al was each 1/2 super soldier*making them the first fusing between personalities that I've ever witnessed* and combined to become perfect, which one had which part of the mentioned choices of Reflexes and Instict? I like to assume Hal is Instinct, since he's inclined to do whatever needed to survive.

In the original, subtitled version I watched, he told her she couldn't combine Reaction and Thought. I'm not sure why they changed it, but it makes more sense like that. Hal would be reaction/instinct, while Al is thought (Al did tend to really overthink things)

[OpMegs]

The line itself was something akin to "Your reactions are good, but thinking so slow as you are, you'll always be one step behind!"

Effectively, Hal seemed to be implying that Soma's reaction speed indeed was above human norm, but that her thoughts couldn't keep up. Similar to a computer that has all the RAM in the world, but a primitive processor that can't use a tenth of it.

[LightningCount]

Episode 25 was enjoyable, but not as much as the previous few episodes. The pacing issues of the season really catch up in its finale. One of the biggest problems is that it tried to cram too much into one episode. As a result, just about everything felt forced.

Graham being shoehorned in was a disservice to his character and a poor choice. Graham has been haphazardly side-lined for most of the season as a minor character, and to bring him in as the main rival for Setsuna here felt irresponsible. The sudden rise of Alejandro from a hardly-seen schemer to a lunatic battle pilot was bordering on laughable. And elevating Ribbons as a secret mastermind is ridiculous.

The Marina/Setsuna relationship doesn't seem to have enough background to it to make it believable. It's not that it's a bad idea, but like a lot of elements it was downplayed and under-developed. I liked Al/Hal's season 1 conclusion with the linking of the personalities. I'm not sure about the Soma connection making sense age-wise to what they're hinting, but we'll see. (Al/Hal looked to be her age a long time ago, so she should have aged if they knew each other as children).

There were many good ideas in Season 1 of Gundam 00. The shell was there, but the filling didn't mesh. The epilogue (as seen on Youtube) was more interesting than what Sci-Fi gave us, but I wouldn't say it's a seamless transition. Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force did the mecha-show time skip back in 1999-2000, and carried that off a lot smoother with a more conclusive "Season 1" climax.

I don't know what to make of Graham's mask yet. It looks more like a Japanese Oni mask or something. I'll have to see a better shot of it to see if it works or not. But in some ways, Graham was never presented enough to be a "mask character." ...I think even Sergei had more screen-time than Graham. I didn't see Patrick in the epilogue, but I'll take everybody's word for it that he's alive. (Though, sadly, Patrick has been a joke character ...What a waste).

With one season of Gundam 00 down, I'd say it had its moments, but it wasn't particularly special or moving in the larger pantheon due to its execution. The early part with the "missions" was interesting, but fizzled a few episodes in when the interventions themselves grew more and more lackluster. There was a mad dash to develop Al/Hal above all the other Meisters early on, but this backfired on Al/Hal because it was rushed. The same thing would happen to Setsuna during the Middle East arc, where he would randomly meet Marina here and there. The move away from Graham to Ali as Setsuna's "rival" made Graham insignificant to the plot, and thus his development was squandered and the Union was cast to the periphery. The introduction of the Thrones, while a "twist," began to throw the plot all over the place. And then they just decided to throw everybody in space for one big battle. It all felt very loosely connected to me.

...I guess I expected the first season to establish the world by focusing on individual character development and the intricate politics of various regions of the world. Instead, it was kind of a flyby of the 00 universe that threw everybody all over the place just to unite the world so there can be a new setup for season 2. This, in effect, neutralizes one of 00's best points--that it was multiple armies and not some ambiguous "federation."

Well, that about does it for my reaction for now.

[Imperial]

I liked Al/Hal's season 1 conclusion with the linking of the personalities. I'm not sure about the Soma connection making sense age-wise to what they're hinting, but we'll see. (Al/Hal looked to be her age a long time ago, so she should have aged if they knew each other as children).

Allelujah is 20 years old, while Soma is 18.

She's simply not hyper-developed like the greater part of the show's female cast members.

[ShadowCell]

Patrick does show up in the epilogue. He's behind Kati in that crowd of Federation soldiers.

[Duo Himura]

Huh... Well, I wasn't watching the dub (heard some of it, thought the quality of the acting sounded -particularly- dreadful, but really I'm just not big on dubs in general), but I -did- just catch up to the end of the first season, so some thoughts of my own:

1) MY GOD THE PACING! Seriously, the final episode should not be a marathon of... what was it, four one-on-one fights? Well, one of them was two-on-one, but Sergei was being pretty useless. Some cool stuff went down, but it was way too much, and I would have sacrificed a few earlier episodes that were slow for these final battles to be more spread out (they could lose the "Gundam-inside-the-mobile-armor" altogether). Really, it makes you appreciate what Tomino did in the final episode of Zeta Gundam... the juggling of all the characters who were still alive and important was quite good there.

2) On the subject of the end of Zeta Gundam, episode 25 of 00 somewhat lacked that philosophical debate element so prevalent in Gundam series. I mean, it had a little of it, but it's just not quite the same as a standoff in a -theater- while various dramatis personae deliver their dramatic monologues about the fate of the world. Of course, comparing 00 to Zeta probably isn't fair. Nonetheless, the thematic element here could have been improved if the Big Bad wasn't just trying to do the same thing he does every night, Pinky.
--On a side note, I do appreciate that Alejandro got a line to the effect of "The world has already begun to heal, are you just going to go on destroying?!" The series -has- been good about pointing out how unrealistic Celestial Being's mission is.

3) This is actually episode 24, but... Tieria uses his freakin' aristeia on PATRICK!? Are you -kidding- me? What a waste... I mean, I know that Nadleeh doesn't do much of anything, and I find Virtue hideous to look at and kind of boring to watch since its fighting style amounts to taking lots of bullets and then shooting back, but nonetheless, he deserved something cooler than taking out the COMIC RELIEF character. (Who still isn't dead? Are you -kidding- me?)

4) Complaint against the last few episodes in general--people in Gundam 00 survive RIDICULOUS things to be killed by relatively minor things. Mind you, I wouldn't trade most of those scenes, but why do so many of the various technological bits in this series seem to like to explode -twice-? Any of the characters who were killed by such a second explosion could have just drifted through space for a while and we'd take for granted that they died of blood loss, so really it was kind of unnecessary. Also, the cockpits are apparently lined with impact-sensitive detonators, for some reason...

5) Really... I would have been satisfied with ending the series there, I think. Before the epilogue, I mean, right at the "IT'S A GUNDAM!" only much less overstated, or maybe even leave that part out. I mean, without any resolution, you would be left to assume that Setsuna, Tieria, and Allelujah died shortly thereafter, along with... pretty much all the series' antagonists who were front line fighters. Setsuna's whole list of questions there, with no answers, as he drifts through space, would be a very poignant conclusion. You'd need to cut out Ribbons' betrayal and maybe go back a few episodes and give Alejandro an -interesting- motive, but with relatively few tweaks, an open-ended conclusion like that seems to fit the series' mood, and everyone -actually- dying would work quite well thematically. The Gundam flying alone at the end (if it was clear that the original Meisters were all dead) would then symbolize how the whole situation continues into the future, and give the impression that Setsuna and everyone else were really just expendable after all. I would have forgiven the series a -lot- if we'd gotten that ending, I think.

--As sort of a continuation, the epilogue really did kill a few things for me... by... apparently bringing everyone back to life. I was kind of interested to see where the series would go with 80% of its antagonists biting it, and a decent chunk of the supporting cast besides. If those characters had all stayed dead, I'd feel more certain that the second half of the series would have to go in a new direction, without revisiting the same ideas/motivations, i.e. "Setsuna wants revenge on Ali," "Graham wants revenge on Setsuna," etc. I mean, it's not like I expect to learn much more about these people in the future: Ali will continue to be a self-serving jerk (who basically gets to kill anyone in the cast who was splitting the story too many ways), and Graham will continue to obsess over his past failures in a rather Jerid-like way but with more innuendo. To that end, I think I'd rather see someone new, and perhaps a little less "Been there, done that."

To be honest, that's sort of the core of my evaluation of the series at this point. Gundam 00 does some things quite well, but just as often shoots itself in the foot by going too far, or tacking on some new idea that ruins (at least, partially) what it already had going for it. For instance, Louise's family is killed and she loses her hand, and she actually sends Saji away because she doesn't want to derail his life. This is all very tragic (also I called it back when people on the interwebs were whining about why Louise was in the series in the first place), but the LouisexSaji "Goodbye" montage was almost COMICAL.

So, so far... the series definitely brushes against what a Gundam set in a more plausible future ought to be, but it's marred by a lot of odd decisions that don't let it live up to its potential. And there is -definitely- potential... I think Chris' death (and Lichty's, to be fair) was easily the most tragic bridge-crew death I've seen, unless we include captains (Zeta fans will know what I mean... SEED's answer wouldn't quite make it, I don't think). Further, the eventual development of the main cast made them far more likable than I thought they would be, and the actual -threat- that was posed by grunt suits in the last third or so made the show interesting in a way I hadn't imagined it would be.

Anyway, now to try and catch up with the where the show is currently before it ends...

[Chris]

I was kind of interested to see where the series would go with 80% of its antagonists biting it, and a decent chunk of the supporting cast besides. If those characters had all stayed dead, I'd feel more certain that the second half of the series would have to go in a new direction, without revisiting the same ideas/motivations, i.e. "Setsuna wants revenge on Ali," "Graham wants revenge on Setsuna," etc.

I pretty much disagree with everything you're saying, but this stands out the most. What's the point in having a series where most of the main characters die before the end? You wouldn't really have much in the way of thematic consistency if all the storylines associated with dead characters are dropped.

[ShadowCell]

You guys know there's more to this show than that, right?

Like, a whole second season? A whole second season that you haven't seen yet?

*sigh*

[Imperial]

If I might play devil's advocate for a moment, the phrase "second season" carries with it a certain connotation.

ZZ is the second season of Zeta, after a fashion, but it features a drastic shift in characters, tone, etc. Thematic elements carry over, such as the discussion of Newtypes and the failings of the Federation, and so do characters such as Haman and Bright. However, there is enough brand new material introduced that it is able to stand on its own.

Looking forward to 00's second season with only a few hints as to what it might entail could rub people the wrong way. A great many characters have lived on with very little of the future conflicts explored. There are some nods toward things to come, but it looks like a lot of the same with Celestial Being presumably preparing for another string of interventions. To the unaware, it could very easily appear as a case of repetition.

Those of us acquainted with the second season know that is features some radically different ideas bandied about, such as dropping the three-way cold war angle, but not everyone has that luxury.

[wraith1701]

I'm not sure if this has been stated yet (and I'm too lazy to read through all 22 pages of posts), so I'll just jump in and ask- - Does anyone know when the DVD collection of season one goes on sale in the U.S.?

[Wingnut]

I'm not sure if this has been stated yet (and I'm too lazy to read through all 22 pages of posts), so I'll just jump in and ask- - Does anyone know when the DVD collection of season one goes on sale in the U.S.?

Current rumors place it sometime in May or June.

[Duo Himura]

I was kind of interested to see where the series would go with 80% of its antagonists biting it, and a decent chunk of the supporting cast besides. If those characters had all stayed dead, I'd feel more certain that the second half of the series would have to go in a new direction, without revisiting the same ideas/motivations, i.e. "Setsuna wants revenge on Ali," "Graham wants revenge on Setsuna," etc.

I pretty much disagree with everything you're saying, but this stands out the most. What's the point in having a series where most of the main characters die before the end? You wouldn't really have much in the way of thematic consistency if all the storylines associated with dead characters are dropped.

Not the main characters, just the main antagonists. It'd be sort of halfway between villain of the week and "The Big Bad"; villains who stick around for about half the story then are killed off, allowing the story to explore characters with some different reasons to fight in its second half, without it becoming stale, which is where I see Ali and Graham going if nothing changes the basic dynamic between them and the Gundam pilots.

And you could definitely have thematic consistency with new characters, all you would have to do is take variations on the general idea--just as an example: in the first half, you have the members of Celestial Being who were "created," if you will, by terrorist attacks and wars that killed their loved ones, and they fight against, to some extent, the forces that brought them to that point (Allelujah fights another super-soldier, Lockon and Setsuna fight Ali, etc.). In the second half, the new set of villains would be people who Celestial Being "created" in the same way (ala Louise or Saji, though their anger is actually misplaced against the original Gundam pilots). That is, Celestial Being fighting people who mirror themselves rather than people who are opposite them in mentality. Thus we raise a lot more questions about whether Celestial Being is actually doing any good, and, being rid of our most abjectly evil character, Ali (with the possible exception of Ribbons, but I'm not crazy about him anyway), we push the series towards a grayer moral area on all sides.

My problem with Ali is that he's kind of a generic evil blood-knight type, and I'm not sure I see him doing much in the future that's that different from what he's done in the past. Also, I'm not sure I really feel the need for Setsuna to fight him again--I think that conflict had enough closure if you left him dead at the hands of Lockon.

Graham's something of another story. He definitely has room for more development, in either a growth or decay sense. In his case, I just think that "revenge for past failure" gets to be kind of a boring motivation if you keep hammering on it (which he did for the entire first season, basically). Also the mask looks absurd with his hair, but that's beside the point. I don't mind his return terribly since I had that particular point spoiled for me, I just hope they're going to try and keep him from turning into a complete Jerid clone (even if he's shooting for Char at the moment).

What it really boils down to is "Why kill somebody if you're going to bring them back?" It's kind of typical of Sunrise, and it's getting a little tiresome at this point. I can live with once or twice, but doing it en masse is just kind of silly. And anyway, wouldn't it be a more interesting moment, characterization-wise, if Graham never showed up to fight in the last episode, and at the end we're left with him pounding his fist into the wall in frustration that the Gundams have disappeared without him ever getting a chance for revenge, because the GN-Flag couldn't be completed in time? He could then go on to blame Billy or whomever and use that as the basis for some further interactions between them or what-have-you, although that would depend on how immature you wanted to make him.