Macross Mega Marathon

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Arbiter GUNDAM
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Re: Macross Mega Marathon

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am

MACROSS 7 EPISODES 16-20

Since in this series of episodes we get introduced to the Protodeviln Sivil, this is probably as good a time as any to talk about my feelings concerning these antagonists, to whit, THEY SUCK!

OK, more seriously, I take issue with them because, by and large, they have little to no character. Take Sivil for example. She actually has a rather awesome intro where she folds(?) in on top of an advance force that Max sent to try and secure the missing City 7 and then proceeds to rip the carrier apart and decimate most of the VFs that came with it, including Gamlin and Kinryuu’s VF-17s. Later she brainwashes (?) a bunch of zentradi citizens aboard City 7 to attack Milia in her office. But after these two incidents, she largely devolves to fanservice, which isn’t necessarily a problem in and of itself except that Sivil has, say it with me now, no character. She only very rarely speaks more than one or two words at any given time, leaving the reasons why she does certain things more or less a mystery. Why is she obsessed with Basara? Doesn’t she know that Anima Spiritia can seal her away again? Why does she, an other-dimensional energy being inhabiting a Protoculture bio-weapon, want to get it on with Basara? You’ll never know because Sivil has no character. Seriously, try doing the Plinkett Test with her or some of the other Protodeviln, like Boss Man Gepelnitch. Try to describe Sivil without—

A. Describing what she looks like (this includes adjectives like sexy, hot, busty, etc.)
B. What she wears
C. What her role and/or profession in the series is

Bet it’ll be pretty hard.

Even the ones who do have some character aren’t really good at it, case in point, Gavil. BEAUTY! Beauty of this, beauty of that, beauty of falling for the same stock footage of Gamlin’s about a dozen times. And don’t even get me started on Goram and Zomd (HA HA HA, HO HO HO)

Lastly, I can’t help but snark a bit at how the Protodeviln’s origins now don’t quite match up to recent revelations concerning the Protoculture. Even if you discount the PC’s reverence for the Vajra… I dunno, it still seems like a big, BIG leap in design aesthetic to go from fleets of ships and armies of giants and combat mecha to bio-weapons that look like they belong on the cast of a Super Sentai show. Seriously, what tactical function does Sivil being a sexy space elf serve? I know that makes me sound like an oldtaku but I think it just goes to show why the Protodeviln just aren’t very good villains. They don't have the intimidation of the Zentradi, they don't have the techno menace and kinda-sorta serial killer vibes of Sharon Apple, they don't have the douchiness of the space whale poachers, they don't have the raw hatred that Nora had, they don't have the creepiness of the Vajra or Grace and the Galaxy Conspiracy or the desperate blitz of the Windemereans/Aerial Knights. Even the Marduk and Lord Ingues from Macross II are better! Well, ok, Ingues is pretty flat too... at least the Marduk had Feff and Ishtar. ;)
I can fly if I ride the wind! Gori gori!

--Freyja Wion

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Macross Mega Marathon

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Since in this series of episodes we get introduced to the Protodeviln Sivil, this is probably as good a time as any to talk about my feelings concerning these antagonists, to whit, THEY SUCK!
... goodness, that was predictable. (Not saying I don't agree wholeheartedly, just that it's such a common thing found in reviews of the series by non-Japanese viewers that it almost feels mandatory.)


Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
OK, more seriously, I take issue with them because, by and large, they have little to no character. [...], she largely devolves to fanservice, which isn’t necessarily a problem in and of itself except that Sivil has, say it with me now, no character.
So she's a perfect match for Basara... neither of them has a personality or any kind of social awareness. :wink:


Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Seriously, try doing the Plinkett Test with her or some of the other Protodeviln, like Boss Man Gepelnitch. Try to describe Sivil without—

A. Describing what she looks like (this includes adjectives like sexy, hot, busty, etc.)
B. What she wears
C. What her role and/or profession in the series is
Can I get away with "idiot-seeking missile", "wallflower of mass destruction", or "taciturn, romantically-minded devourer of souls"?


Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Lastly, I can’t help but snark a bit at how the Protodeviln’s origins now don’t quite match up to recent revelations concerning the Protoculture. Even if you discount the PC’s reverence for the Vajra… I dunno, it still seems like a big, BIG leap in design aesthetic to go from fleets of ships and armies of giants and combat mecha to bio-weapons that look like they belong on the cast of a Super Sentai show.
It makes more sense with the supplemental materials. The Evil-series bodies the Protodeviln inhabit were, to cut it down to the simplest possible terms, an attempt to apply Vajra bio-technology to the Zentradi to improve their combat abilities. They'd already based most of their arsenal on the forms of natural super dimension lifeforms in the galaxy like the Vahla Ena and Vajra, it probably wasn't a huge leap from imitating form (as in the battle pods and starships) with limited applications of biotechnology[1] to a full-on imitation of Vajra biology.

The Evil series was initially a failed effort, given that they replicated many of the Vajra's "natural" abilities but the energy requirements were too great to integrate them into a self-contained biotechnological weapons platform at the time. It wasn't until they sussed out how the Vajra's fold dimensional energy conversion worked, and installed their own crude copy of the ability into the already-finished prototypes that everything went pear-shaped.

In practical terms, the technological advances that were pioneered on the Evil series Zentradi were the basis for the development of fully biotechnological mecha like the Fold Evil they sealed on Uroboros (Macross 30) or the Birdhuman (Macross Zero). They were, at least, smart enough to realize that giving a biotechnological weapon capable of obliterating fleets fully autonomous operation was a terrible idea, and their future efforts all required the presence of a pilot. (Except maybe the Dyaus, who don't appear to be sentient and are a good deal less killy.)



Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Seriously, what tactical function does Sivil being a sexy space elf serve?
Maybe she's the floor model for the showroom? Or maybe some especially savvy Protoculture marketing exec decided the Evil series would sell especially well at the next Apocalyptic Bioweapon and Knife Show if the booth babe was also a product?

(She's supposed to be an espionage/reconnaissance model, so maybe that has something to do with it.)


Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Well, ok, Ingues is pretty flat too... at least the Marduk had Feff and Ishtar. ;)
Ingues gets better in the novelization, though admittedly that's kind of somewhere between Boddole Zer and Space Voldemort for motive.



EDIT:
1. The Zentradi/Meltrandi themselves contained some applications of biotechnology, including bio-fiber optic nervous system augmentations, organic computer systems, and cybernetic user interfaces for select models of mecha.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

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Re: Macross Mega Marathon

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:51 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
OK, more seriously, I take issue with them because, by and large, they have little to no character. [...], she largely devolves to fanservice, which isn’t necessarily a problem in and of itself except that Sivil has, say it with me now, no character.
So she's a perfect match for Basara... neither of them has a personality or any kind of social awareness. :wink:
No social awareness maybe but Basara definitely has a personality.


Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Seriously, try doing the Plinkett Test with her or some of the other Protodeviln, like Boss Man Gepelnitch. Try to describe Sivil without—

A. Describing what she looks like (this includes adjectives like sexy, hot, busty, etc.)
B. What she wears
C. What her role and/or profession in the series is
Can I get away with "idiot-seeking missile", "wallflower of mass destruction", or "taciturn, romantically-minded devourer of souls"?
I like the taciturn one but even then it's a bit on the vague side, isn't it? At least it sounds interesting enough


Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 am
Lastly, I can’t help but snark a bit at how the Protodeviln’s origins now don’t quite match up to recent revelations concerning the Protoculture. Even if you discount the PC’s reverence for the Vajra… I dunno, it still seems like a big, BIG leap in design aesthetic to go from fleets of ships and armies of giants and combat mecha to bio-weapons that look like they belong on the cast of a Super Sentai show.
It makes more sense with the supplemental materials. The Evil-series bodies the Protodeviln inhabit were, to cut it down to the simplest possible terms, an attempt to apply Vajra bio-technology to the Zentradi to improve their combat abilities. They'd already based most of their arsenal on the forms of natural super dimension lifeforms in the galaxy like the Vahla Ena and Vajra, it probably wasn't a huge leap from imitating form (as in the battle pods and starships) with limited applications of biotechnology[1] to a full-on imitation of Vajra biology.

The Evil series was initially a failed effort, given that they replicated many of the Vajra's "natural" abilities but the energy requirements were too great to integrate them into a self-contained biotechnological weapons platform at the time. It wasn't until they sussed out how the Vajra's fold dimensional energy conversion worked, and installed their own crude copy of the ability into the already-finished prototypes that everything went pear-shaped.

In practical terms, the technological advances that were pioneered on the Evil series Zentradi were the basis for the development of fully biotechnological mecha like the Fold Evil they sealed on Uroboros (Macross 30) or the Birdhuman (Macross Zero). They were, at least, smart enough to realize that giving a biotechnological weapon capable of obliterating fleets fully autonomous operation was a terrible idea, and their future efforts all required the presence of a pilot. (Except maybe the Dyaus, who don't appear to be sentient and are a good deal less killy.)
And since that's all in supplemental matiriel, I'm still going to call the sudden shift to space monsters a bit of a fail.




Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm
(She's supposed to be an espionage/reconnaissance model, so maybe that has something to do with it.)
If Sivil is supposed to be something of a Meltrandi 2.0 I guess I can accept that.



Well, let's move along, shall we?

MACROSS 7 EPISODES 26-30

The first half of the series ends with one hell of a bang as Gepelnitch's massive flagship and fleet try to corner Macross 7 on planet Lux, where it's revealed that the Macross 5 fleet has been completely trashed and its civilians are missing. We get a massive action scene here that's so great that the subsequent episodes are just a little bit of a letdown, as seen in the following photos.
I can fly if I ride the wind! Gori gori!

--Freyja Wion

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