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 Post subject: Mobile Suit Variations
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:03 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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I'm spinning this off from bilbros's Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread for the sake of a more detailed discussion of how the stuff currently filed under "variations" should be categorized.


Historically speaking, Mobile Suit Variations series tend to be roundups of existing designs rather than created from scratch. The original MSV series started out as a grab-bag of unused TV series designs (like the Acg series and the Prototype Gundam), original illustrations that Kunio Okawara had created over the previous couple of years, and even the G-3 Gundam from Tomino's novels. Likewise, the so-called ZZ MSV and Char's Counterattack MSV series are an assortment of unused anime designs, kit manual illustrations, original designs published in the first edition of the MS Encyclopedia, and more stuff from Tomino's novels. One common thread is that most of these machines were created by professional mecha designers involved with the anime itself.

At the same time, the powers that be can be fairly selective about what counts as an official MSV. The Ga Zowm Gunner Type and Super G-Fortress are Mika Akitaka designs featured in model kit manuals, yet they've never been included in the ZZ-MSV lineup in any official publication. (Neither has Katoki's Methuss Mariner, another unused anime design.) The Beta Azieru, meanwhile, is the only machine from the CCA kit manuals which is omitted from official listings of the CCA-MSV series.

The official publications - the MS Encyclopedia, the Encyclopedia of Gundam, et cetera - also tend to overlook Okawara's MSV designs for Gundam F91 and Victory Gundam. In other words, officially there's no F91-MSV or V-MSV series. This just seems mean.


On the whole, then, MAHQ's current breakdown of the various MSV series seems fairly equitable. Looking at the lists, I'd make a few suggestions...

* The ZZ-MSV listing should probably note that the Super G-Fortress isn't officially part of the series, and the Ga Zowm Gunner Type should probably be on there as well.

* The CCA-MSV listing, on the other hand, omits a bunch of officially recognized machines. The Hi-Nu and Nightingale, although inspired by Tomino's novels, are normally placed in this category; in fact, since the name "Hi-Nu" is never used in the novel itself, we could just as well consider the Hi-Nu Gundam to be an original MSV design inspired by the novel illustrations. The Beta Azieru, meanwhile, isn't officially part of the CCA-MSV series and should perhaps be tagged accordingly.

* The F91-MSV listing shouldn't include the Hardygun variations, since this is a Silhouette Formula machine. The rest of these machines come from B-CLUB, Gundam Magazine, and Hobby Japan, and I think only the latter were identified as "F91 MS Variations" in the original publication. Then again, these are all Okawara designs, and since there's no official F91-MSV category in the first place there's no real basis for excluding any of them.

* Likewise, there's no official V-MSV series, so anything from the New MSV Handbook series is surely fair game.

* And lastly, Kunio Okawara's MS Collection (or M-MSV) should be listed alongside the other MSV series.


After that, it gets trickier. I'm still of the opinion that the "Mecha Designers' Variations" should be reorganized into a listing by product series - Master Grade, HG-UC, Gundam Fix Figuration, and so forth. (After all, there are at least half a dozen different versions of the "Gundam Ver.Ka" at this point.) Pretty much everything else in this section is just random spot art from books or magazines. But I'll make specific suggestions on these later.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Creepy Bishonen

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So, according to your scheme, Fukuchi Mobilesuit Station (F.M.S.) should be placed together with the other MSV lists (i.e. MSV, MS-X, M-MSV, Z-MSV, ZZ-MSV, CCA-MSV, F91-MSV, V-MSV). I fully agree, but I wonder if the same would apply also to:
- MSV90 (a small set of quite obscure original designs by Tatsuya Tomosugi, appeared in some Comic Bom-Bom issues dating back to 1990)
- Solomon Express (Dengeki Hobby Magazine "Solomon Express", currently in the Hobby/Model Magazine Variations section).

Concerning "Mecha Designers' Variations", I'm waiting for your specific suggestions; in the meantime, I propose a possible subgroup arrangement of this category, as follows:

1) Art from books or magazines
They can be categorized either by source (i.e. B-Club magazine, Newtype magazine, etc.) or by designer (i.e. Hajime Katoki, Kazumi Fujita, etc.); each solution has its pros and cons.

2) Unused designs / rough drafts from anime productions
In order to avoid too many complications, it's important to establish a precise policy: for instance I believe that it would be quite hard to list stuff such as the earliest Okawara designs for the Gunboy / Gundam (some of which resemble Daitarn 3!). As an alternative, one should completely exclude the rough drafts.

3) Illustrations for model kit and action figures
As previously suggested, I don't see there's a real need for them (please, forget my last post on the Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread). In any case, I agree that if one wants to include them in MAHQ, they should be listed by product line:
High Grade (HG) (i.e. the 1990 model line with drawings by Kunio Okawara)
Master Grade (MG)
High Grade Universal Century (HGUC)
Gundam Fix Figuration (GFF)
Zeonography.

Depending on replies, I will provide more detailed listings in the
Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread.


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:18 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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bilbros wrote:
So, according to your scheme, Fukuchi Mobilesuit Station (F.M.S.) should be placed together with the other MSV lists (i.e. MSV, MS-X, M-MSV, Z-MSV, ZZ-MSV, CCA-MSV, F91-MSV, V-MSV). I fully agree, but I wonder if the same would apply also to:
- MSV90 (a small set of quite obscure original designs by Tatsuya Tomosugi, appeared in some Comic Bom-Bom issues dating back to 1990)
- Solomon Express (Dengeki Hobby Magazine "Solomon Express", currently in the Hobby/Model Magazine Variations section).

I don't remember whether Solomon Express had a story or just the designs themselves, but if the latter, then this would logically go in the MSV category along with FMS and MSV90. The only real difference is that MSV, MS-X, M-MSV, Z-MSV, and most of the ZZ and CCA MSV designs are officially recognized and the others aren't.

On the other hand, Sentinel 0079, Gundam Secret Weapons, Tyrant Sword, and Dragoon 13 all have text stories along with the mecha designs, making these "diorama stories" rather than design series.


Quote:
Concerning "Mecha Designers' Variations", I'm waiting for your specific suggestions

I got held up with final projects for school, so this will have to wait for a few more days. Sorry! But in the meantime, let's ponder...

Quote:
1) Art from books or magazines
They can be categorized either by source (i.e. B-Club magazine, Newtype magazine, etc.) or by designer (i.e. Hajime Katoki, Kazumi Fujita, etc.); each solution has its pros and cons.

I'd vote for doing it by source. This would be more consistent with the way the rest of the listing is organized, and each profile has a slot for designer/artist credits anyway.

Quote:
2) Unused designs / rough drafts from anime productions
In order to avoid too many complications, it's important to establish a precise policy: for instance I believe that it would be quite hard to list stuff such as the earliest Okawara designs for the Gunboy / Gundam (some of which resemble Daitarn 3!). As an alternative, one should completely exclude the rough drafts.

Perhaps we should leave this up to Chris. MAHQ doesn't presently cover rough drafts, so this would be a whole new task for him. Anyways, many of these unused designs eventually end up being revamped into MSV-style designs like the Prototype Gundam, Prototype Gouf, and the Psyco Doga (which is based on an early Izubuchi design for the CCA movie).

Quote:
3) Illustrations for model kit and action figures
As previously suggested, I don't see there's a real need for them (please, forget my last post on the Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread). In any case, I agree that if one wants to include them in MAHQ, they should be listed by product line:

I agree completely. This caters to my previously noted preference for grouping by source rather than artist. :-)


Quote:
Depending on replies, I will provide more detailed listings in the
Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread.

If you like, I'll give you first crack at this and then kibitz from the sidelines. I think you're just as capable as I am of navigating the variations thickets.

In that case, a couple things I was going to suggest in the event that I got around to it:

* Eliminating the deparate "Double Fake Variations" and "Gundam Sentinel Variations" categories. Whether they appeared in the story or not, these were published along with it and are part of the same multimedia experience. There's a stronger argument for purging the Oldsmobile designs from the Gundam F90 section, since these only appeared in the Formula Wars 0122 video game, but at this point they're considered to be part of the overall F90 package.

* Adding M-MSV, Silhouette Formula 91, and Katoki's "early" Gundam Wing designs to the first category alongside stuff like MSV and Gundam F90.

* As noted above, moving diorama stories like Gundam Secret Weapons, Sentinel 0079, and Tyrant Sword to the general side story category.

* Collapsing the separate Gundam Wars sections into a single Model Graphix category. Most of the original Gundams in these sections originally appeared in the regular magazine and were merely compiled in the Gundam Wars books.

That was pretty much my to-do list. I was also going to suggest grouping the comics by publisher - or at least magazine of origin - rather than the brand the compiled volumes happened to be released under, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. :-)

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:45 pm 
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toysdream wrote:
Perhaps we should leave this up to Chris. MAHQ doesn't presently cover rough drafts, so this would be a whole new task for him. Anyways, many of these unused designs eventually end up being revamped into MSV-style designs like the Prototype Gundam, Prototype Gouf, and the Psyco Doga (which is based on an early Izubuchi design for the CCA movie).


I had considered doing this a few years ago and even began collecting lineart. But I eventually quit for two reasons: 1) it was becoming a mammoth task, and 2) a lot of those older rough drafts from the MSG-ZZ era have pretty poor scan quality.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Creepy Bishonen

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Following your advices related to the reorganization of the "Variations" category, I've prepared a new index for UC and AW Gundam series; other alternative universes may follow the same general scheme.
This index includes both items already listed by MAHQ (sometimes I've reported a slightly different and more complete name) and brand new series (these latter are underlined).
As suggested, the "spurious" Double-Fake Variations and Sentinel Variations are included respectively in the Double-Fake and Gundam Sentinel listings.
Similarly, to avoid proliferation of index pages, I've omitted novel and manga versions of series such as Advance of Zeta, MS IGLOO, Blue Destiny and Zeonic Front. In other instances (The Origin; Hi-Streamer, Beltorchika's Children, etc.) this distinction might be retained; I have some doubt on how to treat the novels of F91, Victory, Zeta and ZZ.
In any case, I've tried to group novels and manga by publisher.
Of course, the list is far from being exhaustive, particularly concerning Video & Computer Games and Gundam Ace manga... further integrations and corrections are welcome. :)

Animation, Live Action & Computer Animated Productions

Animation Productions

Universal Century
Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team
Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack
Mobile Suit Gundam F91
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam

After War
After War Gundam X

Live Action Productions
G-Saviour (TV movie)

Computer Animated Productions
Gundam Evolve
Gundam Mission To The Rise
Gundam Neo Experience 0087: Green Divers
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: The Hidden One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: Apocalypse 0079

Amusement Park Attraction
Gundam Crisis
Gundam the Ride: A Baoa Qu

Variations

Variations Series' Based on Animation Production Designs
MSV (Mobile Suit Variations)
MS-X
Z-MSV (Zeta Gundam Mobile Suit Variations)
ZZ-MSV (Gundam ZZ Mobile Suit Variations)
CCA-MSV (Char's Counterattack Mobile Suit Variations)
Mobile Suit Gundam F90
Mobile Suit Gundam Silhouette Formula 91
F91-MSV (Gundam F91 Mobile Suit Variations)
V-MSV (Victory Gundam Mobile Suit Variations)
Kunio Okawara's MS Collection (aka M-MSV)
Fukuchi Mobilesuit Station (F.M.S.)
MSV90
Solomon Express
After War Gundam X Hyper Guide

Mecha Designers' Variations

Books and Magazines
Anaheim Journal
B-Club Magazine
G20
Gundam Magazine
Masterpiece of Huge Arms
Newtype Magazine
RPG Magazine

Model kit and Action figures
Model Kit Instructions Variations
High Grade (HG)
Master Grade (MG)
High Grade Universal Century (HGUC)
Gundam Fix Figuration (GFF)
Zeonography

Hobby/Model Magazines
Dengeki Hobby Magazine
Hobby Japan/Gundam Weapons Series
Model Graphix/Gundam WARS Series

Manga, Novels & Side Stories

Animage
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Hi-Streamer
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Four's Story

Bandai
Char's Return
Enhanced Human Tale Another Z Gundam Story
Iron Maiden
Jupiter Mirage
Last Night Before Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam Aishim
Mobile Suit Gundam MS Generation
Mobile Suit Gundam: Program Master
Mobile Suit Gundam Saigon 0081
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story Legend of G
Mobile Suit Gundam Vs. Giant God: Counterattack of Gigantis
Mobile Suit VOR!!
New MS Senki: Mobile Suit Gundam Short Story Collection
Night-Hawks!
Outer Gundam
Side Story of Gundam Zeta
Stampede: The Story of Professor Minovsky
Top Gundam
Under the Gundam: Almarya
Under the Gundam: Double-Fake

Hobby Japan
Go Ahead!! (Another War in UC 0044)
Gundam Game
Mobile Suit Gundam G-Strategy
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ gamebook
Operation Buran U.C. 0079
Original Gundam Story: Inner Gundam Space of Ageta
The Star of Zion - Mobil Suit in Action
Tyrant Sword of Neofalia

Kadokawa
After War Gundam X: Under the Moonlight
Char's Deleted Affair: Portrait of Young Comet
Gaia Gear
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Steel 7
Mobile Suit Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Beltorchika's Children
Mobile Suit Gundam Developers: Before One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Hathaway's Flash
Mobile Suit Gundam École du Ciel
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Crossbone Vanguard
Mobile Suit Gundam Ixab: Goddess of the Fallen Soldiers
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: From Place Beyond the Blaze
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team U.C. 0079 +α
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Revival of Zeon
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Z Gundam 1/2 UC 0087: Another Story
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Day After Tomorrow- From Kai Shiden's Report
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam novel
Newtype War Chronicles
Nightmare of Solomon
Secret Rendezvous: Amuro and Lalah

Keibunsha Adventure hero books
Mobile Suit Gundam Last Red Comet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0087: Jerid Sortie Order

Kodansha
Mobile Suit Gundam: MS Senki
Mobile Suit Gundam Silouhette Formula: The Ghost of Formula 91
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
MSV Senki: Johnny Ridden
Plamo-kyo Shiro

Mediaworks
Advance of Zeta: The Flag of Titans
Enhanced Human Tale Madwang 1160
Go! Go! Our Victory Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Side Story: The Sky Fleet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Operation Stardust
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis Side Story: Highlanders
Mobile Suit Gundam REON
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team Side Story: Trivial Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Runner
Mobile Suit Gundam Secret Weapons: Phantom Bullets
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Side Story: Escape Plan

Model Graphix
Gundam Sentinel 0079
Gundam Sentinel
Gundam Proceed: Techno Wars 0090
The First Step
MS Senki Side Story Born to be Wild Again

Out Magazine
Mobile Suit O Gundam: Newtype's Light

Softbank
Gundam MS Graphica

Sony Magazine
Gundam Pilot series of Biographies: The Brave Soldiers in the Sky

Tsukuda Hobby
Twilight of Zeon

Video & Computer Games

Arcade
Mobile Suit Gundam: Bonds of the Battlefield
Mobile Suit Gundam: Ex Revue
Mobile Suit Gundam: Spirits of Zeon ~Dual Stars of Carnage~

Bandai Wonderswan/Wonderswan Color
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat 2
SD Gundam: G Generation: Monoeye Gundams

Microsoft Xbox 360
Mobile Ops: The One Year War

Multiple Platform
Gundam 0079: The War for Earth
Gundam Musou
Mobile Suit Gundam: Federation VS Zeon DX
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Greed
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: AEUG VS Titans

Nintendo DS
SD Gundam: G Generation DS

Nintendo Game Boy
SD Gundam: G-Arms

Nintendo Game Boy Advance
SD Gundam: G Generation Advance

Nintendo GameCube
Mobile Suit Gundam: Pilot's Locus

Nintendo Super Famicon
Mobile Suit Gundam: Cross Dimension 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122
SD Gundam: GX

Nintendo Wii
SD Gundam Revolution

Personal Computer
Mobile Suit Gundam: Advanced Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam Tactics Mobility Fleet 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Return of Zeon

Sega Dreamcast
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 0079: Rise from the Ashes

Sega Saturn
Side Story of Mobile Suit Gundam: The Blue Destiny (game)

Sony PlayStation 1
Gundam: The Battle Master 2
Gundam Battle Assault 2
SD Gundam: G Generation
SD Gundam: G Generation Zero
SD Gundam: G Generation F

Sony PlayStation 2
Battle Assault 3 featuring Gundam SEED
G-Saviour (game)
Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Ambition: Record of Zeon Independence War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Journey to Jaburo
Mobile Suit Gundam: Lost War Chronicles
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079: Zeonic Front
SD Gundam: G Generation Neo
SD Gundam: G Generation Spirits

Sony PlayStation 3
Mobile Suit Gundam: Target in Sight

Sony PlayStation Portable
Gihren's Greed: Menace of Axis

Miscellaneous Items

Meaningless War 0091: Mobile Suit Gundam Another Story
Unconfirmed and Non-Classified Mecha
Burke's All the World's Mobile Weapons
Burke's Fighting Spaceships & Vehicles


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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bilbros wrote:
Following your advices related to the reorganization of the "Variations" category, I've prepared a new index for UC and AW Gundam series; other alternative universes may follow the same general scheme.

Impressive! Now all that's left to me is to kibitz from the sidelines. :-)

Quote:
Similarly, to avoid proliferation of index pages, I've omitted novel and manga versions of series such as Advance of Zeta, MS IGLOO, Blue Destiny and Zeonic Front. In other instances (The Origin; Hi-Streamer, Beltorchika's Children, etc.) this distinction might be retained; I have some doubt on how to treat the novels of F91, Victory, Zeta and ZZ.

I suppose there's no harm in listing these under all the relevant categories - e.g. novel, manga, game, et cetera - as long as all the links point to the same index page. (Technically speaking, in the case of Blue Destiny, Zeonic Front, and so forth, the game is the primary work and everything else is just an adaptation.)

Now to comment by category...


Animation, Live Action & Computer Animated Productions

Animation Productions

I might be inclined to list the title simply as "Mobile Suit Gundam 0083" because the "Stardust Memory" subtitle refers only to the OVA series; the movie is titled "Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Afterglow of Zeon" (or whatever they're callling it this week).

Tempted as I am to quibble about the categorization of things like Green Divers - is it more like an amusement park attraction? does the use of traditional cel animation disqualify it from the "Computer Animated" category? - I think I'll leave well enough alone. :-)


Variations

Variations Series' Based on Animation Production Designs

Technically, "MSV" stands for "Mobile Suit Variation" singular. I might also list the M-MSV stuff as "M-MSV (MS Collection)," and once we factor in the other universes the Gundam Wing "Early Type" designs would go here too.

Chronologically speaking, M-MSV should perhaps be listed between CCA-MSV and Gundam F90, since it runs through the Char's Counterattack time period and the designs were published in 1990.

Oh, and maybe we should give "Harmony of Gundam" its own listing here. Otherwise this looks good to me.


As an aside: I've been trying to find out what I can about the publication history of some of these variations. It looks like Fukuchi's FMS feature in MJ magazine was a replacement for his previous "MS 90's" column (not to be confused with MSV90). Fukuchi's "MS 90's" column accompanied the serialization of Double-Fake, presenting the mecha designs from the story along with bonus sketches of unused mobile suits; this column is considered an adjunct to the manga itself, which is why the unused machines are lumped in with the stuff that actually appeared in Double-Fake.

The same kind of thing applies to Gundam Sentinel, Advance of Zeta, and the M-MSV series, all of which combined a serialized story with mecha design features. In the case of M-MSV, there were a couple of story features accompanying Okawara's mecha designs - a series of one-shot "MS Collection Novels" and a couple of serialized "Secret Formula" stories, which showcased the accompanying mobile suit designs. As with the previous examples, I think it's reasonable to lump all this content into the general "M-MSV" category.


Books and Magazines

Perhaps this should be combined with the "Hobby/Model Magazines" section. There's no particular reason why B-CLUB should be listed under one category and Dengeki Hobby under another.


Manga, Novels & Side Stories

Thanks for breaking these out by publisher; I think that's more useful than doing it by brand, and this is how they're typically identified in Japanese sources. The publisher for the Animage titles would be Tokuma Shoten.

Some of the titles credited to Media Works - such as Gundam 0079 and Moon Crisis - began publication in the "MS Saga" anthology when it was still being published by Bandai, before the title was handed off to Media Works. However, Bandai only put out three volumes of MS Saga and never compiled any of the featured manga, so I think these should remain under the Media Works listing.

Tomino's Mobile Suit Gundam novels were originally published by Asahi Sonorama.

Finally, I might be inclined to add the "MS Igloo 603" comic under the Kadokawa Shoten heading. Although it includes retellings of episodes 1 and 3 of "The Hidden One Year War," it also has several original stories, characters, and mecha designs, and if the two MS Igloo anime series each get their own index then the comic should probably get one too.


Video & Computer Games

"Gihren's Ambition" should be "Gihren's Greed" in every case; this is the English title established on the Japan side.


I think that's all my nitpicks. Tremendous job tallying all these weird spinoffs!

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:40 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy
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Chris wrote:
toysdream wrote:
Perhaps we should leave this up to Chris. MAHQ doesn't presently cover rough drafts, so this would be a whole new task for him. Anyways, many of these unused designs eventually end up being revamped into MSV-style designs like the Prototype Gundam, Prototype Gouf, and the Psyco Doga (which is based on an early Izubuchi design for the CCA movie).


I had considered doing this a few years ago and even began collecting lineart. But I eventually quit for two reasons: 1) it was becoming a mammoth task, and 2) a lot of those older rough drafts from the MSG-ZZ era have pretty poor scan quality.


If you ever consider taking this up again, I've collected a lot of print materials with rough drafts and such. In such a project, we might want to start by listing what books/mags/etc people own or already have scans of, and what series/designs are in those publications - to divide the labor more evenly... so we don't have a bunch of people scanning overlapping collections of rough designs from different books.

On another note, I have a bunch of 7th Fight stuff to scan soonish. It should fill out that section quote nicely... I even think I can crop out perfect drawings of some of the MS' weapons from the back views of the mechs.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:18 am 
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Creepy Bishonen

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OK, here's the "version1.1" of the series index, corrected according to toysdream's latest comments.

Concerning the precise nature of Green Divers, I agree with you: it should represent a category on its own, but I cannot find a proper definition for it (perhaps a vague "Theatrical presentation"?), so for the moment I left it under the "Computer Animated Productions" heading.

As for the opportunity to list separately the multiple versions of a given product (all pointing to a single index page), this is surely the formally most correct approach, but for some people to reach the same result from different links might be quite misleading. Furthermore, most of the main series "automatically" gave rise to a novel and / or a manga version (The 08th MS Team; Rise from the Ashes; The Blue Destiny; Lost War Chronicles; Zeonic Front; Target in Sight; 0080; 0083; École du Ciel; Z Gundam A New Translation; F90; Formula Wars 0122; Silhouette Formula 91; etc.), which would greatly lenghten the list.
At any rate, in this index "version1.1" I didn't add them yet.

Animation, Live Action & Computer Animated Productions

Animation Productions

Universal Century
Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team
Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack
Mobile Suit Gundam F91
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam

After War
After War Gundam X

Live Action Productions
G-Saviour (TV movie)

Computer Animated Productions
Gundam Evolve
Gundam Mission To The Rise
Gundam Neo Experience 0087: Green Divers
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: The Hidden One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: Apocalypse 0079

Amusement Park Attraction
Gundam Crisis
Gundam the Ride: A Baoa Qu

Variations

Variations Series' Based on Animation Production Designs
MSV (Mobile Suit Variation)
MS-X
Fukuchi Mobilesuit Station (F.M.S.)
MSV90
Z-MSV (Zeta Gundam Mobile Suit Variation)
ZZ-MSV (Gundam ZZ Mobile Suit Variation)
CCA-MSV (Char's Counterattack Mobile Suit Variation)
M-MSV (MS Collection)
Mobile Suit Gundam F90
Mobile Suit Gundam Silhouette Formula 91
F91-MSV (Gundam F91 Mobile Suit Variation)
V-MSV (Victory Gundam Mobile Suit Variation)
Solomon Express
Harmony of Gundam
After War Gundam X Hyper Guide

Mecha Designers' Variations

Books and Magazines
Anaheim Journal
B-Club Magazine
Dengeki Hobby Magazine
G20
Gundam Magazine
Hobby Japan/Gundam Weapons Series
Masterpiece of Huge Arms
Model Graphix/Gundam WARS Series
Newtype Magazine
RPG Magazine

Model kit and Action figures
Model Kit Instructions Variations
High Grade (HG)
Master Grade (MG)
High Grade Universal Century (HGUC)
Gundam Fix Figuration (GFF)
Zeonography

Manga, Novels & Side Stories

Asahi Sonorama
Mobile Suit Gundam novel

Bandai
Char's Return
Enhanced Human Tale Another Z Gundam Story
Iron Maiden
Jupiter Mirage
Last Night Before Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam Aishim
Mobile Suit Gundam MS Generation
Mobile Suit Gundam: Program Master
Mobile Suit Gundam Saigon 0081
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story Legend of G
Mobile Suit Gundam Vs. Giant God: Counterattack of Gigantis
Mobile Suit VOR!!
New MS Senki: Mobile Suit Gundam Short Story Collection
Night-Hawks!
Outer Gundam
Side Story of Gundam Zeta
Stampede: The Story of Professor Minovsky
Top Gundam
Under the Gundam: Almarya
Under the Gundam: Double-Fake

Hobby Japan
Go Ahead!! (Another War in UC 0044)
Gundam Game
Mobile Suit Gundam G-Strategy
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ gamebook
Operation Buran U.C. 0079
Original Gundam Story: Inner Gundam Space of Ageta
The Star of Zion - Mobil Suit in Action
Tyrant Sword of Neofalia

Kadokawa
After War Gundam X: Under the Moonlight
Char's Deleted Affair: Portrait of Young Comet
Gaia Gear
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Steel 7
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Beltorchika's Children
Mobile Suit Gundam Developers: Before One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Hathaway's Flash
Mobile Suit Gundam École du Ciel
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Crossbone Vanguard
Mobile Suit Gundam Ixab: Goddess of the Fallen Soldiers
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO 603
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: From Place Beyond the Blaze
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team U.C. 0079 +α
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Revival of Zeon
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Z Gundam 1/2 UC 0087: Another Story
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Day After Tomorrow- From Kai Shiden's Report
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam novel
Newtype War Chronicles
Nightmare of Solomon
Secret Rendezvous: Amuro and Lalah

Keibunsha Adventure hero books
Mobile Suit Gundam Last Red Comet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0087: Jerid Sortie Order

Kodansha
Mobile Suit Gundam: MS Senki
Mobile Suit Gundam Silouhette Formula: The Ghost of Formula 91
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
MSV Senki: Johnny Ridden
Plamo-kyo Shiro

Mediaworks
Advance of Zeta: The Flag of Titans
Enhanced Human Tale Madwang 1160
Go! Go! Our Victory Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Side Story: The Sky Fleet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Operation Stardust
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis Side Story: Highlanders
Mobile Suit Gundam REON
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team Side Story: Trivial Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Runner
Mobile Suit Gundam Secret Weapons: Phantom Bullets
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Side Story: Escape Plan

Model Graphix
Gundam Sentinel 0079
Gundam Sentinel
Gundam Proceed: Techno Wars 0090
The First Step
MS Senki Side Story Born to be Wild Again

Out Magazine
Mobile Suit O Gundam: Newtype's Light

Softbank
Gundam MS Graphica

Sony Magazine
Gundam Pilot series of Biographies: The Brave Soldiers in the Sky

Tokuma Shoten
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Hi-Streamer
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Four's Story

Tsukuda Hobby
Twilight of Zeon

Video & Computer Games

Arcade
Mobile Suit Gundam: Bonds of the Battlefield
Mobile Suit Gundam: Ex Revue
Mobile Suit Gundam: Spirits of Zeon ~Dual Stars of Carnage~

Bandai Wonderswan/Wonderswan Color
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat 2
SD Gundam: G Generation: Monoeye Gundams

Microsoft Xbox 360
Mobile Ops: The One Year War

Multiple Platform
Gundam 0079: The War for Earth
Gundam Musou
Mobile Suit Gundam: Federation VS Zeon DX
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Greed
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: AEUG VS Titans

Nintendo DS
SD Gundam: G Generation DS

Nintendo Game Boy
SD Gundam: G-Arms

Nintendo Game Boy Advance
SD Gundam: G Generation Advance

Nintendo GameCube
Mobile Suit Gundam: Pilot's Locus

Nintendo Super Famicon
Mobile Suit Gundam: Cross Dimension 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122
SD Gundam: GX

Nintendo Wii
SD Gundam Revolution

Personal Computer
Mobile Suit Gundam: Advanced Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam Tactics Mobility Fleet 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Return of Zeon

Sega Dreamcast
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 0079: Rise from the Ashes

Sega Saturn
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: The Blue Destiny

Sony PlayStation 1
Gundam: The Battle Master 2
Gundam Battle Assault 2
SD Gundam: G Generation
SD Gundam: G Generation Zero
SD Gundam: G Generation F

Sony PlayStation 2
Battle Assault 3 featuring Gundam SEED
G-Saviour (game)
Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Greed: Record of Zeon Independence War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Journey to Jaburo
Mobile Suit Gundam: Lost War Chronicles
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079: Zeonic Front
SD Gundam: G Generation Neo
SD Gundam: G Generation Spirits

Sony PlayStation 3
Mobile Suit Gundam: Target in Sight

Sony PlayStation Portable
Gihren's Greed: Menace of Axis

Miscellaneous Items

Meaningless War 0091: Mobile Suit Gundam Another Story
Unconfirmed and Non-Classified Mecha
Burke's All the World's Mobile Weapons
Burke's Fighting Spaceships & Vehicles


From next time on, I think I'll proceed with the Miscellaneous Gundam contributions thread, perhaps starting from Gundam Mission To The Rise and then following the order of the list above.


And now, a brief reply to asterphage
asterphage wrote:
If you ever consider taking this up again, I've collected a lot of print materials with rough drafts and such. In such a project, we might want to start by listing what books/mags/etc people own or already have scans of, and what series/designs are in those publications - to divide the labor more evenly... so we don't have a bunch of people scanning overlapping collections of rough designs from different books.


It seems a good idea.
I'm currently preparing the list of the rough draft material I have, and I'll try to post it as soon as possible. I hope other people would do the same.
:)


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:13 pm 
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Thanks, bilbros and Mark for the comments. I've reorganized everything based on version 1.1 of this list so far, so I'll be waiting for the next full list before making anything public. I've also condensed some things, such as Gundam WARS, Sentinel/Sentinel variations and Double Fake/Double Fake variations.

As a side note to one of Mark's suggestions, I decided to change 0083's name entry to Stardust Memory/The Last Blitz of Zeon to cover both. Similarly, I added /A New Translation to Zeta's entry, so hopefully that will be clear enough that people stop constantly asking me why the section lists MS that aren't in the series.

EDIT: I've also gone and moved all the Harmony mecha from individual game sections to the new Harmony section for ease of management. To make sure that section is up to date, I'd appreciate a list of everything that falls under Harmony. It's been awhile, so I don't remember, but is the GP02 MLRS counted as Harmony?

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:36 pm 
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Yes, I do believe that the GP02 MLRS does count as part of Harmony. I am 99% sure of this, but someone can feel free to correct me on that.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:18 am 
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Catching up...

bilbros wrote:
Concerning the precise nature of Green Divers, I agree with you: it should represent a category on its own, but I cannot find a proper definition for it (perhaps a vague "Theatrical presentation"?), so for the moment I left it under the "Computer Animated Productions" heading.

Well, I guess that's the difficulty of grouping these things by the animation technique used, rather than the release format. I suppose Green Divers could be placed alongside the amusement park rides in a generalized "events" or "attractions" category, but it's not like anyone's going to have trouble finding them when they're all at the top of the list. :-)

Quote:
As for the opportunity to list separately the multiple versions of a given product (all pointing to a single index page), this is surely the formally most correct approach, but for some people to reach the same result from different links might be quite misleading.

Misleading perhaps, but there are surely a lot of people who wouldn't think to look for Blue Destiny under video games. Perhaps there could be appropriately phrased links - "see Blue Destiny (video game)" - under the comic and novel listings? That seems more helpful than just making people guess where it's filed, and we don't have to do it for the novel and manga versions of everything, which as you point out would be pretty ridiculous. :-)


Chris wrote:
As a side note to one of Mark's suggestions, I decided to change 0083's name entry to Stardust Memory/The Last Blitz of Zeon to cover both.

I think it's being billed as "Afterglow of Zeon" nowadays, which is also a more literal translation.

Quote:
Similarly, I added /A New Translation to Zeta's entry, so hopefully that will be clear enough that people stop constantly asking me why the section lists MS that aren't in the series.

Awesome! That should help. :-)

Quote:
EDIT: I've also gone and moved all the Harmony mecha from individual game sections to the new Harmony section for ease of management. To make sure that section is up to date, I'd appreciate a list of everything that falls under Harmony. It's been awhile, so I don't remember, but is the GP02 MLRS counted as Harmony?

According to the HG-UC model box, yes it is. That actually covers two versions - the MLRS type (with rocket launchers) and the beam bazooka type.

The others in the line are the Zaku I Sniper Type, GM Striker (standard and prototype versions), Dom Cannon (single and double cannon versions), and the Aqua GM.
-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Finally, here's the "version1.2" of the UC and AW series index, updated according to the latest suggestions.
The main changes compared to the previous list are the position of Green Divers (now in the Amusement Park Attraction/Events category) and the addiction of a few other things, among wich some "important" manga/novel adaptations (The Blue Destiny manga & novel; Advance of Zeta manga; F90 manga; Silhouette Formula 91 manga), choosen chiefly because they refer to rather poplular series (as suggested also by the existence of Bandai model kits). In such instances, as hinted by toysdream, perhaps it would be useful to add an appropriate reference to the index of the original series on which these adaptations are based.
As in the previous instances, new items are underlined.
I still omit other manga adaptations (e.g. Rise from the Ashes; Formula Wars 0122; etc.) and most novels "duplicating" already-covered series (e.g. 0080; 0083; etc.).
In the absence of substantial corrections (and provided the insertion of non-UC/AW series), I think this list can be considered public-ready.

Animation, Live Action & Computer Animated Productions

Animation Productions

Universal Century
Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team/Miller's Report
Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory/The Afterglow of Zeon
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam/A New Translation
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack
Mobile Suit Gundam F91
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam

After War
After War Gundam X

Live Action Productions
G-Saviour (TV movie)

Computer Animated Productions
Gundam Evolve
Gundam Mission To The Rise
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: The Hidden One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO: Apocalypse 0079

Amusement Park Attraction/Events
Gundam Crisis
Gundam the Ride: A Baoa Qu
Gundam Neo Experience 0087: Green Divers

Variations

gariations Series' Based on Animation Production Designs
MSV (Mobile Suit Variation)
MS-X
Fukuchi Mobilesuit Station (F.M.S.)
MSV90
Z-MSV (Zeta Gundam Mobile Suit Variation)
ZZ-MSV (Gundam ZZ Mobile Suit Variation)
CCA-MSV (Char's Counterattack Mobile Suit Variation)
M-MSV (MS Collection)
Mobile Suit Gundam F90
Mobile Suit Gundam Silhouette Formula 91
F91-MSV (Gundam F91 Mobile Suit Variation)
V-MSV (Victory Gundam Mobile Suit Variation)
Solomon Express
Harmony of Gundam
After War Gundam X Hyper Guide

Mecha Designers' Variations

Books and Magazines
Anaheim Journal
B-Club Magazine
Dengeki Hobby Magazine
G20
Gundam Magazine
Hobby Japan/Gundam Weapons Series
Masterpiece of Huge Arms
Model Graphix/Gundam WARS Series
Newtype Magazine
RPG Magazine

Model kit and Action figures
Model Kit Instructions Variations
High Grade (HG)
Master Grade (MG)
High Grade Universal Century (HGUC)
Gundam Fix Figuration (GFF)
Zeonography

Manga, Novels & Side Stories

Asahi Sonorama
Mobile Suit Gundam novel

Bandai
Char's Return
Enhanced Human Tale Another Z Gundam Story
Iron Maiden
Jupiter Mirage
Last Night Before Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam Aishim
Mobile Suit Gundam F90 manga
Mobile Suit Gundam MS Generation
Mobile Suit Gundam: Program Master
Mobile Suit Gundam Saigon 0081
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story Legend of G
Mobile Suit Gundam Vs. Giant God: Counterattack of Gigantis
Mobile Suit VOR!!
New MS Senki: Mobile Suit Gundam Short Story Collection
Night-Hawks!
Outer Gundam
Side Story of Gundam Zeta
Stampede: The Story of Professor Minovsky
Top Gundam
Under the Gundam: Almarya
Under the Gundam: Double-Fake

Hobby Japan
Go Ahead!! (Another War in UC 0044)
Gundam Game
Mobile Suit Gundam G-Strategy
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ gamebook
Operation Buran U.C. 0079
Original Gundam Story: Inner Gundam Space of Ageta
The Star of Zion - Mobil Suit in Action
Tyrant Sword of Neofalia

Kadokawa
Advance of Zeta: The Flag of Titans manga
After War Gundam X: Under the Moonlight
Char's Deleted Affair: Portrait of Young Comet
Gaia Gear
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Steel 7
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Beltorchika's Children
Mobile Suit Gundam Climax U.C. Spinninig Lineage
Mobile Suit Gundam Developers: Before One Year War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Hathaway's Flash
Mobile Suit Gundam École du Ciel
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Crossbone Vanguard
Mobile Suit Gundam Ixab: Goddess of the Fallen Soldiers
Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO 603
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: From Place Beyond the Blaze
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: The Blue Destiny manga
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team U.C. 0079 +α
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Revival of Zeon
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam novel
Mobile Suit Z Gundam 1/2 UC 0087: Another Story
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Day After Tomorrow- From Kai Shiden's Report
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam novel
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam Side Story: Mirage of Zeon
Newtype War Chronicles
Nightmare of Solomon
Secret Rendezvous: Amuro and Lalah

Keibunsha Adventure hero books
Mobile Suit Gundam Last Red Comet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0087: Jerid's Sortie Orders

Kodansha
Mobile Suit Gundam: MS Senki
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: The Blue Destiny novel
Mobile Suit Gundam Silouhette Formula: The Ghost of Formula 91
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
MSV Senki: Johnny Ridden
Plamo-kyo Shiro

Mediaworks
Advance of Zeta: The Flag of Titans
Enhanced Human Tale Madwang 1160
Go! Go! Our Victory Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Side Story: The Sky Fleet
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Operation Stardust
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis
Mobile Suit Gundam 0099: Moon Crisis Side Story: Highlanders
Mobile Suit Gundam Impulse
Mobile Suit Gundam REON
Mobile Suit Gundam Silhouette Formula 91 in UC 0123 manga
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team Side Story: Trivial Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Runner
Mobile Suit Gundam Secret Weapons: Phantom Bullets
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Side Story: Escape Plan

Model Graphix
Gundam Sentinel 0079
Gundam Sentinel
Gundam Proceed: Techno Wars 0090
The First Step
MS Senki Side Story Born to be Wild Again

Out Magazine
Mobile Suit O Gundam: Newtype's Light

Softbank
Gundam MS Graphica

Sony Magazine
Gundam Pilot series of Biographies: The Brave Soldiers in the Sky

Tokuma Shoten
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Hi-Streamer
Mobile Suit Z Gundam Four's Story

Tsukuda Hobby
Twilight of Zeon

Video & Computer Games

Arcade
Mobile Suit Gundam: Bonds of the Battlefield
Mobile Suit Gundam: Ex Revue
Mobile Suit Gundam: Spirits of Zeon ~Dual Stars of Carnage~

Bandai Wonderswan/Wonderswan Color
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat
SD Gundam: G Generation Gather Beat 2
SD Gundam: G Generation: Monoeye Gundams

Microsoft Xbox 360
Mobile Ops: The One Year War

Multiple Platform
Gundam 0079: The War for Earth
Gundam Musou
Mobile Suit Gundam: Federation VS Zeon DX
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Greed
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: AEUG VS Titans

Nintendo DS
SD Gundam: G Generation DS

Nintendo Game Boy
SD Gundam: G-Arms

Nintendo Game Boy Advance
SD Gundam: G Generation Advance

Nintendo GameCube
Mobile Suit Gundam: Pilot's Locus

Nintendo Super Famicon
Mobile Suit Gundam: Cross Dimension 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122
SD Gundam: GX

Nintendo Wii
SD Gundam Revolution

Personal Computer
Mobile Suit Gundam: Advanced Operation
Mobile Suit Gundam Tactics Mobility Fleet 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam: The Return of Zeon

Sega Dreamcast
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 0079: Rise from the Ashes

Sega Saturn
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: The Blue Destiny

Sony PlayStation 1
Gundam: The Battle Master 2
Gundam Battle Assault 2
SD Gundam: G Generation
SD Gundam: G Generation Zero
SD Gundam: G Generation F

Sony PlayStation 2
Battle Assault 3 featuring Gundam SEED
G-Saviour (game)
Mobile Suit Gundam Climax U.C.
Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Greed: Record of Zeon Independence War
Mobile Suit Gundam: Journey to Jaburo
Mobile Suit Gundam: Lost War Chronicles
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079: Zeonic Front
SD Gundam: G Generation Neo
SD Gundam: G Generation Spirits

Sony PlayStation 3
Mobile Suit Gundam: Target in Sight

Sony PlayStation Portable
Gihren's Greed: Menace of Axis

Miscellaneous Items

Meaningless War 0091: Mobile Suit Gundam Another Story
Unconfirmed and Non-Classified Mecha
Burke's All the World's Mobile Weapons
Burke's Fighting Spaceships & Vehicles


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Thanks, bilbros. I moved the stuff you hadn't covered into the appropriate categories, with some assistance from Deacon Blues. The next step is further consolidation of some sections, namely BEE-CRAFT and Katoki. I don't want to assume where every piece goes, so a list would be handy as far as moving stuff to the new HG, HGUC, MG and GFF sections. We should probably also start soliciting for Zeonography lineart. In addition, although it's been discussed a bit here or in the other thread, I'd like to finalize what we're going to do with the other mecha designer variation sections currently listed under UNSORTED. Any further consolidation suggestions can be listed here. Once the reorganizing is done, I'll switch focus to all of bilbros' new contributions and corrections.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:31 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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Chris wrote:
The next step is further consolidation of some sections, namely BEE-CRAFT and Katoki. I don't want to assume where every piece goes, so a list would be handy as far as moving stuff to the new HG, HGUC, MG and GFF sections. We should probably also start soliciting for Zeonography lineart. In addition, although it's been discussed a bit here or in the other thread, I'd like to finalize what we're going to do with the other mecha designer variation sections currently listed under UNSORTED.

Hokay, let's give this a shot.


BEE-CRAFT Variations: Most of these are Master Grade line art. The only exceptions are the Infinite Justice and Saviour Gundams, which were created for the regular 1/100 Gundam Seed Destiny model kit series in an attempt to bring its aesthetics up to Master Grade standards. BEE-CRAFT also did corresponding new line art for the 1/100 Legend Gundam and Akatsuki. These four designs from the regular 1/100 series could perhaps be lumped in with the Master Grade line art, since they're meant to match the MG style.


Hajime Katoki Variations: The vast majority of these are Master Grade line art. I'll note the exceptions separately below.

RGM-79 GM, MSN-02 Zeong, AMX-107 Bawoo: High Grade Universal century line art. The MG line art for the Zeong is considerably fancier.

Crossbone Gundam X-1 and X-2: Gundam Fix Figuration art.

RX-78-2 Gundam Ver. Ka: I believe this image is from the "Sentinel 0079" diorama story in Model Graphix, so it belongs here.

Psyco Gundam Mark III: Probably fraudulent. It looks like fan art to me.

Turn A Gundam: I have no idea where this comes from. I think it may have appeared in a bonus pamphlet that came with a deluxe edition of one of Katoki's art books.

Wing Gundam Early Version et al: The "Early Versions" of the Gundam Wing mobile suits should have their own section under "Variation Series." I guess they'd fit right in between MS-X and the Comic BomBom designs.


Kazuhisa Kondo Variations: This one defeats me. There are so many of these, and their appearances overlap so often in Kondo's comics, that it's tempting to leave them in their own "Kondo-verse" section.


Kazumi Fujita Variations: As I've noted before, these are simply models inspired by Fujita's illustrations for the Zeta Gundam novels. They don't count as "variations" per se, and arguably don't belong on MAHQ at all.


Makoto Kobayashi Variations: Likewise, these are simply spot illustrations that Kobayashi did for Newtype magazine. They're just pretty pictures, not "variations" in their own right, and I suggest they be eliminated from MAHQ.


Syd Mead Variations: These models are based on unused production designs from the Turn A TV series. Unless there's a section for rejected rough drafts, I'd file these under the model magazines in which they appeared or purge them entirely.


Ta-dah! I think that covers everything.

-- Mark


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Maybe a section should be made specifically for rejected rough drafts of MS designs. After all, there seem to be quite a few of them floating around, such as the famous spacesuit-headed Gunboy and the early versions of the Wing Gundams from Okawara's design works book.

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AmuroNT1 wrote:
Maybe a section should be made specifically for rejected rough drafts of MS designs. After all, there seem to be quite a few of them floating around, such as the famous spacesuit-headed Gunboy and the early versions of the Wing Gundams from Okawara's design works book.


Well, you have to recognize that at a point, this gets very difficult. There are literally a dozen rough drafts each for the RX-79[G], Wing Gundam, and Shining Gundam. I think any rough draft designs currently on the site should be saved, for a point in the future when things are more organized and more people have time to tackle the task.

In the Model Kits and Action Figures section, there should also be a HCM Pro ("High Complete Model Progressive") section. I can supply most of the Char's Counterattack HCM Pro art, though it'll take a while.

By the way, along with the 1/100 Gundam Seed model art, the Gundam 00 1/100 models have their own, higher-detail art, which has been published in Hobby Japan in extensive detail (and in color!) as well as in the kit booklets. These seem to me like they were drawn before the final animation designs, as they show the style of the individual designers much more strongly.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:35 am 
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Master of Mecha

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AmuroNT1 wrote:
Maybe a section should be made specifically for rejected rough drafts of MS designs. After all, there seem to be quite a few of them floating around, such as the famous spacesuit-headed Gunboy and the early versions of the Wing Gundams from Okawara's design works book.

Chris actually addressed this earlier in the thread, explaining that he'd ruled it out once it proved to be a major hassle. Seems like a good project for somebody, though, whether on MAHQ or elsewhere.


asterphage wrote:
By the way, along with the 1/100 Gundam Seed model art, the Gundam 00 1/100 models have their own, higher-detail art, which has been published in Hobby Japan in extensive detail (and in color!) as well as in the kit booklets. These seem to me like they were drawn before the final animation designs, as they show the style of the individual designers much more strongly.

Ah, good point. It appears that Bandai and Sunrise have learned from the Gundam Seed product line that there's a solid demand for "detail up" versions of the Gundams, and in the case of Gundam 00 they've planned ahead by having the mecha designers draw these up ahead of time. Unlike the Gundam Seed designs, which are labeled in the kit manuals as "plamodel mechanism illustrations," the extra-detailed Gundam 00 designs are labeled as "G-mecha designer arrange" versions which could be considered a category of variation in their own right.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:02 am 
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Creepy Bishonen

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:25 pm
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Location: Italy
toysdream wrote:
Kazuhisa Kondo Variations: This one defeats me. There are so many of these, and their appearances overlap so often in Kondo's comics, that it's tempting to leave them in their own "Kondo-verse" section.


Tempting indeed, since when a mecha appears in more than one series this is often associated with a different model number and sometimes also a more or less slightly different aspect!

Anyway, I think we can at least try to assign most of them.
I will provide a more detailed list in the next days, but for the moment I can anticipate that the main sources for the Kondo mechas reported by MAHQ are The Revival of Zeon (A/FMSZ-007II, AMX-101G, MSN-04B, etc.), New MS Senki (PMS-007, RAX-778, RX-79M, etc.), Operation Buran (e.g. MA-05HG, VPKW-005) Mobile Suit VOR!! (LPW-007AL, MSM-03Cbis, etc.) and Go Ahead (e.g. MF-92S, SSR-92).
:)


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Creepy Bishonen

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:25 pm
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Location: Italy
As promised, here's the complete "who-goes-where" list for the Kazuhisa Kondo mechas reported by MAHQ. Obviously, each of the mentioned series would include also some units not present in the current listing, but this would be the subject of future contributions.

A/FMSZ-007II Zeta
The profile picture is from The Revival of Zeon; the MS appears in New MS Senki as well.

AMS-119 Geara Doga
The profile picture is from The Revival of Zeon; this version is also labeled AMS-119A1.

AMS-119G Geara Doga
This appears in New MS Senki, where it was originally designated as MS-16G Geara Doga G.

AMX-101G Galluss-G
The mecha is briefly seen in The Revival of Zeon.

G-3 ("Gei Drei") Early Version
I don't know where this one comes from...it seems a sort of "transitional design" between the MSN-010G-3 from Zeta Gundam manga and the MAN-07G from Side Story of Z.
In any case, I would like to note that a better extended transliteration for "G-3" is "Ge Drei", which is exactly the German for "G-3".

G-3 ("Ge Drei") Sturmgeschuetz
This profile picture is used as a separator page between two New MS Senki stories, so I think it could be placed in there as well.
I'm not completely sure, but perhaps its name is ntended to be "Sturmgeschütz", which in German means "assault cannon".

LPW-007AL Schreck Gustav
The profile picture is from Go Ahead!!; the MS appears in Mobile Suit VOR!! as well.

LPW-007CN Faust Gustav
M2A1 G-I
M4AA2R BGR (Body Guard Radiobeam)
All these three come from Go Ahead!!.

MA-05HG (PMA-05HG, PKF-05) Buran
As a general rule, I noticed that when a Kondo mecha has two or more model numbers, each one can be properly associated to a different series.
So, the PKF-05 (which is the one depicted in the MAHQ profile) is from Operation Buran, whereas the remaining model numbers refers to two slightly redesigned versions: the MA-05HG is from Mobile Suit VOR!!, and if I'm not wrong the PMA-05HG appears in Go Ahead!!.

MAN-010 G-3 ("Ge Drei")
The drawing labeled as "Mobile armor mode" represents the version originally appeared in The Revival of Zeon. Subsequently, it featured also in:
1) the compiled edition of Zeta Gundam manga (both in the initial color pages of volume 3 and in the related closing "Mechanical Manual" section), designated as MSN-010 G-3;
2) the "Mechanical Manual" section of Side Story of Z (where it's called MAN-07G);
3) Mobile Suit VOR!!.
On the other hand, the drawing reported as "Mobile suit mode" perhaps comes from Go Ahead!!, in whcih case it would probably represent a PWN-010.

MF-92S G-Commander
This appeared in Go Ahead!!; another G-Commander version (with missile launchers replacing the BGR container) is seen in New MS Senki, but I think that it would be more properly labeled as RX-92LAS, and I also have the impression that the profile picture refers exactly to this latter.

MS-06D Desert Zaku
MS-09E Dowadge
MS-09G Dowadge
MS-09K Dowadge
MS-106 Hi-Zack-B
MS-106 Hi-Zack-D
[b]MS-108 Marasai-E
[b]MS-108 Marasai-G

MS-108 Marasai-H
MS-108 Marasai-S
All these are from The Revival of Zeon.

MS-109A (PKW-109) Goblin (aka "Stuka")
MS-109D (PKW-109) Goblin (aka "Stuka")
Other two mechas from The Revival of Zeon, where they're more properly reported as MS-109A Goblin and MS-109D Goblin, respectively. The name "Stuka" and the model number PKW-109 identify different Goblin versions (see below).

MSA-003 Nemo
This appears in The Revival of Zeon.

MSM-03Cbis Hygogg
From Mobile Suit VOR!!.

MSN-04B Sazabi
The profile picture is from the artbook Gundam Crossover Notebook II. The mecha appears in The Revival of Zeon and New MS Senki. On B-Club Magazine it's reported as AMS-04B Sazabi (Ground Combat Heavy Type).

NZ-333 α Azieru
This appears in Go Ahead!!.

ORX-005EX (VPKW-005) Sturm Jaguar (aka "Gaplant")
Another "mixed" profile. The standard Mobile suit and Mobile armor mode pictures are slight redesigns of the RX-005 Sturm Jäger from Side Story of Z, whereas the picture reported as "Alternate version in mobile suit mode" is the ORX-005EX Sturm Jaguar from The Revival of Zeon. Finally, VPKW-005 designates a further Sturm Jäger variant, seen in Operation Buran and Go Ahead!!.
Needless to say, but Kondo's ORX-005 Gaplant from Zeta Gundam manga differs from all the above-mentioned versions!

PKW-107 Gelub
The profile picture is probably a model from Go Ahead!!, subsequently released by Kotobukiya as 1/220 scale garage kit. Two different versions featured in Operation Buran and in The Revival of Zeon (although in this latter case, as far as I know, it isn't expliciely identified).
By the way, in the garage kit coloring guide it's clearly said that the name of this MS comes from the German word for "yellow": therefore it should be spelled as "Gelb" rather than "Gelub".

PKW-109 Goblin
This is more properly named Stuka, and most likely comes from Go Ahead!!. Another PKW-109 variant is seen in Operation Buran.

PMS-007 Jaguar I
The first profile picture is seen in the New MS Senki story titled Side Operation of the Zion UC 0092; the so-called "Alternate version" comes from Land Battle, which is a sort of "scene" depicted in the first two color pages of New MS Senki.
The mecha features also in Go Ahead!!.

PMS-007B Jaguar II ("Jaguar Zwei")
From Go Ahead!!.

PMX-003 The O II
The profile picture is from The Revival of Zeon; a slightly different version is seen in Go Ahead!!.

PMX-005 (YPKW-006) Breda
The first profile picture is the PMX-005 Breda appeared in The Revival of Zeon; the so-called "Alternate version" is a redesigned PMX-005 from New MS Senki.
Similarly to other instances, the YPKW-006 is a separate Breda variant, seen in Operation Buran and Go Ahead!!.

PPW-002 Luchs
From Go Ahead!!.

PWN-010 G-3 ("Ge Drei")
This profile is complementary to the MAN-010, since the drawing labeled as "Mobile suit mode" represents the version originally appeared in The Revival of Zeon, subsequently seen in Zeta Gundam manga, Side Story of Z and Mobile Suit VOR!!.
The "Mobile armor mode" is slightly different, and perhaps comes from Go Ahead!!, in whcih case it would probably represent a PWN-010.

PX-00531
This ν Gundam Pre-Test Type comes from The Revival of Zeon.

RGM-79E GM II
Another unit from The Revival of Zeon.

RGM-79U Aqua GM
The profile picture is from Mobile Suit VOR!!. A different version of this MS is seen in The Revival of Zeon.

RGM-86T GM III
RGM-89T Jegan
These two come from The Revival of Zeon.

RX-79M Gundam Submarine
From New MS Senki.

RX-178 Gundam Mark II B
From The Revival of Zeon.

SSMS-010ZZ Double Zeta
The profile picture is the SSMS-010ZZ Double Zeta "Siegfried" from The Revival of Zeon; a slightlly different version appeared in Go Ahead!!.

SSR-92 Latchbum
From Go Ahead!!.

The O Custom Type 1
I don't know the precise provenance of this model...perhaps is from the old Hobby Japan Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ book; in any case, it appeared together with a Makoto Kobayashi design called "The-O Special" (different from the one currently in the Unsorted listings).

The O Custom Type 2
All I can say is that this drawing is labeled as "Kobayashi-style The O", and it's quite close to Kondo's PMX-003 The O from Zeta Gundam manga; I think it comes from the same source of the The O Custom Type 1.

TMS-007X Z Gustav[/b]
From Side Story of Z

Type-2001 Grasshopper
From Go Ahead!!; it featured also in a Kondo manga published by Fujimi Shobo and titled Over Gloss (but I'm not sure this is related to the Gundam universes!).
Curiously, the corresponding Kotobukiya 1/35 scale garage kit is labeled M2A1 Grasshopper.

RAX-778 G-Ray
The picture reported as "Early version" appeared in the New MS Senki story titled Side Operation of the Zion UC 0092; the so-called "Detail up version" comes from Land Battle, which is a sort of "scene" depicted in the first two color pages of New MS Senki.
If I'm not wrong, the mecha would features also in Go Ahead!!.

Concerning the unused / draft designs...
in preparing a list of the related material I have, I finally realized more specifically the problems and difficulties connected to the inclusion of this kind of things in MAHQ...perhaps for the moment it's better to omit them.
A possible solution is the establishment of a "ragbag" section for all the temporaneously unsortable drawings, designs and so on, organized by mecha designer.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Newtype Emo Guy
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Here's a list of Hobby Japan mooks related to their original Gundam variations, up to a point-

Hobby Japan books:
  • How to Build Gundam
  • How to Build Gundam 2
  • How to Build Gundam World 3 - Mobile Suit Z Gundam
  • How to Build Gundam World 4 - Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ - Mobile Suit in Action
  • How to Build Gundam World 5 - Mobile Suit Gundam New Generation
  • How to Build Gundam World 6 - Gundam Weapons U.C. 0080
  • How to Build Gundam World 7 - Mobile Suit Gundam F91 - Mobile Suit in Action U.C. 0123
  • Gundam Weapons 2
  • Gundam Weapons 3 - 0083 Stardust Memory
  • Gundam Weapons 4 - MS Competition Special Edition
  • Gundam Weapons 5 - Master Grade Model Special Edition
  • Gundam Weapons 6 - Master Grade Model Special Edition
  • Mobile Suit V Gundam - Neo How To Build Gundam
  • Kido Butoden G-Gundam - Gundam Fight The 3D
  • Gundam Wing The 3D
  • (08th MS Team book - title unknown to me)
  • Hobby Japan Mook 5 - Gundam X The 3D
  • Hobby Japan Mook 8 - Gundam Wing Endless Waltz
  • Gundam Weapons: Master Grade Model MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam Special Edition
  • Gundam Weapons: Master Grade Model MS-06R Zaku II Special Edition
  • Gundam Weapons: Master Grade Model RX-78GP-01 Gundam GP01 Special Edition
And so on throughout the rest of the books in the current Gundam Weapons series. I don't have a complete list of them, or of books related to Turn A, Seed, etc. However, those books should be relatively easy to find information on.

Now, to focus on one particular book I have a lot of information on:
"How to Build Gundam World 5 - Mobile Suit Gundam New Generation" focuses on Char's Counterattack, and contains variations including all these Neo Zeon mecha:
  • AMS-117B Doga Land Battle Type (described as Gouf-like)
  • AMS-117X Prototype Doga
  • AMS-119D Desert Doga
  • AMS-119E Geara Doga Marine Corps type
  • AMS-119F Sturm Doga (based on an original Yutaka Izubuchi design)
  • AMS-119G Geara Doga
  • AMS-119M Marine Doga
  • AMS-119N Röte Doga (not "Lethe" or "Leyte" as I'd originally guessed. Char custom; based on AMS-120 Geara Doga Psycommu Test Type; prototype of Jagd Doga)
  • AMS-119R Welter Doga (Rezun Schneider custom; based on Doven Wolf and The-O)
  • AMS-119V Panzer Doga (Appears to be built off a Magella tank, or the lower half of a Zaku Tank)

The book also includes a section on Kondoh's Revival of Zeon comic, profiling the following MS:
  • AMS-04B Sazabi Mass Production Type (Heavy Equipment for Land Battle type)
  • AMS-119A1 Geara Doga (Heavy Equipment for Land Battle type)
  • MS-106 Hizack Ausf.D
  • MS-108 Marasai Ausf.E
  • MS-109A Goblin
  • PMS-007 Jaguar
  • PMX-005 Bredda
  • RAX-778 G-Ray
  • RX-00531 Nu Gundam prototype

I'm told that the Prototype Nu Gundam did not appear in the manga itself, but was covered in the HTBG New Generation book.

_________________
-Paul Segal


Last edited by asterphage on Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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