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 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:49 am 
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War-ending Idol Singer
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*Please delete this, it's wrong thread*

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 Post Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:34 am 
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Mecha Flunky

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Posts: 17
I recommend to make the following corrections to the
LM312V06+SD-VB03A V-Dash Gundam Hexa
profile:

change
"2 x 29010 kg (all operable in mobile suit mode and on Core Fighter/Overhang Pack)"
to
"6 x 7390 kg (all operable in mobile suit mode, 2 operable in Core Fighter, 2 operable in Top Fighter, 2 operable in Bottom Fighter),
Overhand backpack adds 2 x 6840 kg thrust power (not thrusters!)(all operable in mobile suit mode and on Core Fighter/Overhang Pack)"

change
"2 x overhang beam cannon, mounted on Overhang Pack (backpack), operable in mobile suit mode only;"
to
"2 x overhang beam cannon, mounted on Overhang Pack (backpack), main gun port operable in mobile suit mode and dismounted backpack only, secondary gun port operable in Core Fighter only;"
proof:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5407/gundamv255092.png
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6759/gundamv255093.png
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3689/gundamv255094.png


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:07 am 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
Some corrections/updates are needed for the following in Victory Gundam series section:

ZMT-S33S Gottrlatan

The "2 x 6-tube micro-missile pod, mounted on optional mega beam cannon, can only be fired in "cannon form""
is probably wrong, since japanese pages only list "2 x 3 tubes". Looking at the mecha it's too dangerous to fire missiles inward from such short distances. The inward holes are probably blast exhausts.
It also makes more sense to fire out ward because this can also be done when the mega beam cannon is in stored mode.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/60/gundamv49504.png
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3009/gundamv49514.png

The mega beam cannon is actually a dual barrel mega beam cannon. It's the idea leading to the later Wing Gundam's twin buster rifle.
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1226/gundamv5053311.png
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1180/gundamv50534.png

"2 x hardpoint, 1 located outboard on each leg"
needs to be added. The notion of backpack hardpoints may have been wrongly assigned since backpack/booster connections are pretty much standard since ever.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1884/gundamv49527.png

-------------------------------------------
Note: Variants text may also need same fixings.

LM314V21 Victory 2 Gundam

"Performance: maximum thruster acceleration: mobile suit mode 20 G"
Is wrong, I know it has been like this for many years, but now it's time to make the correction with other edits. This is not an official information and is a maqh.net database extra. It should be 4.20 G. You can calculate that by adding all thrusters and divide by weight (simple physics). 66790 kg/15900 kg = 4.2 Thrust kg is of course 9.81 Nm/s^2.

The total number of sabers should be two.

"multi-launcher, location unknown"
This probably refers to the laser mines. They are released from the front skirt (pod).
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5013/gundamv30505.png

-------------------------------------------
LM314V23 Victory 2 Buster Gundam

"6 x micromissile launcher pod, 2 mounted in single pod on each leg, 1 mounted on each front skirt armor plate"
This is wrong.
"6 x micromissile launcher pod, 1 mounted outboard on each leg, 1 mounted on each front skirt armor plate, 1 on each aft skirt pod"
The error lies with the knee caps being also blue. I wrote "aft skirt pod" because those are thruster pods. It's also a logical error seeing how they are placed on hardpoints and skirts.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7170/v2gd0011.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4852/v2gd0015.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4783/v2gd0016.jpg

------------------------------------------
LM314V23/24 V2 Assault-Buster Gundam

"mega beam cannon, mounted on backpack over right shoulder"
add the following for completion
"spray beam pod, mounted on backpack over left shoulder;"


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 2733
Location: San Francisco, CA
In some of these cases, you're urging the editors to replace what's written in the official Japanese specs with what seem to be your pet theories...

* The official specs for the V-Dash list its main thrusters as "29010 kg x 2", not some elaborate mishmash of old and new thrusters.

* The V-Dash Core Booster weapons aren't listed in the official specs, but captions in the original line art say that the weapons on top are "beam guns" (not alternative outlets for the overhang cannons). It also has gatling guns in the frontmost point of its booster units.

* The official specs for the Gottrlatan list its armament as including two 6-barreled micromissile pods and a single mega beam cannon. They don't say where the two hardpoints are located, though.

* The V2 Gundam, of course, doesn't really have an acceleration of 20G. On the other hand, its official specs do not include the thrust from the Minovsky drive. The 66,790 kg of thrust listed in its specs comes entirely from sub thrusters, including whatever devices are providing "16,700 kg x 2" in mobile suit form. The output of its main engines is unlisted and unknown. So this needs to be fixed, but not in the way you suggest, and it'll probably never happen. :-)

* The V2's official specs say it has "beam saber x 2(2)". The extra "2" refers to a set of spares which are also stored in the forearms, just as noted in the current profile. The multi-launcher is attached to its beam rifle, and this should probably be added to the MAHQ listing.

* You're correct that the V2 Buster has micromissile pods on its front and back skirts. The pods on its legs have two openings, which is probably why the current listing counts them as two pods apiece. And yes, the spray beam pod should be included in the V2 Assault Buster profile. Aside from the possible location of the Gottrlatan's hardpoints, I think these are the only "corrections" in your list that need to be implemented.

And now I'm noticing that a bunch of the V and V2 profiles say their beam rifles are powered by energy CAPs, rather than energy packs. Sigh... this is what happens when you start elaborating on the official specs and make everything that much more complicated. :-\

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
toysdream wrote:
In some of these cases, you're urging the editors to replace what's written in the official Japanese specs with what seem to be your pet theories...

It's because I'm stupid enough to dig up truths while everyone just dicusses opinions like politicians without providing anything to forward the issue.
For some reason most japanese pages list what I found to be different.

Quote:
* The official specs for the V-Dash list its main thrusters as "29010 kg x 2", not some elaborate mishmash of old and new thrusters.

Yes, but the mecha is not a new design it just puts on a backpack. The number given is the totaled thrust. I just broke it into the normal mecha spec and what's been added from the backpack. If that was not obvious. You also have to consider that officials usually don't care to check their own data and just give some number. Best example of this happening are Star Trek infos. All easy to check but still inconsistancies everywhere.

Quote:
* The V-Dash Core Booster weapons aren't listed in the official specs, but captions in the original line art say that the weapons on top are "beam guns" (not alternative outlets for the overhang cannons). It also has gatling guns in the frontmost point of its booster units.

Can't confirm the gatlings, but the anime does confim beam weaponry. I don't see any japanese listings having gatlings on the backpack. Might just be one of those planned sketches but dropped later. Wouldn't be something new, and they are likely not bothered to redraw everything. Typical human laziness to consider here.

Quote:
* The official specs for the Gottrlatan list its armament as including two 6-barreled micromissile pods and a single mega beam cannon. They don't say where the two hardpoints are located, though.

As I suspected this was just a wrong conclusion on the side of the editor here.

Quote:
* The V2 Gundam, of course, doesn't really have an acceleration of 20G. On the other hand, its official specs do not include the thrust from the Minovsky drive. The 66,790 kg of thrust listed in its specs comes entirely from sub thrusters, including whatever devices are providing "16,700 kg x 2" in mobile suit form. The output of its main engines is unlisted and unknown. So this needs to be fixed, but not in the way you suggest, and it'll probably never happen. :-)

I wouldn't be so sure. Just because they didn't put the number beside the Minovski drive does't mean it's not included in the numbers provided below. As I said above they may not care to do it approprietly.
From what I understand the 2 assigned for the core fighters are in fact the white lower part of the drive wings. As we all can seel neither the top part nor the bottom part are exhausts but just thruster pads. The exhaust is in the middle of both at the mecha's back.
See my break-up comment on the backpack above.

Quote:
* The V2's official specs say it has "beam saber x 2(2)". The extra "2" refers to a set of spares which are also stored in the forearms, just as noted in the current profile. The multi-launcher is attached to its beam rifle, and this should probably be added to the MAHQ listing.

Well, the launcher was not clearly stated. So the launcher is the big underbarrel addon for the 2nd beam rifle version. The first rifle had no underbarrel attachment, but received the grenade launcher later.
But then again it's listed under 'Fixed armaments' not optional armaments. Either this is wrong or it's what I suspect as the dispenser reference for the mines.

-------------
Since we are at it..
"2 x I-field beam-deflecting barrier generator"
should be listed together with the Mega Beam Shield. It's obviously not part of the basic V2 and only appears together with the buster/assault armor listing. Obviously the backpack does not have shields.

I also see in some other thread that it's probably worth a notion to list the V1/V2/LM111e02/3 as being able to act under water since we see them fighting underwater in the anime. Well, I believe most gundam mechas are able to anyway or the makers don't care to make such restrictions to begin with. :lol:

I don't really care if the database will be corrected or not, but don't hold me responsible later. :D It just happens that I'm building the mecha for use.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 2733
Location: San Francisco, CA
Almighty wrote:
It's because I'm stupid enough to dig up truths while everyone just dicusses opinions like politicians without providing anything to forward the issue.

I think what you're doing is more like asking the site editors to replace the official specs with your own opinions. You're perfectly entitled to these opinions, and it might be interesting to discuss them in a mecha thread, but these really aren't "corrections" that the site editors need to act upon.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
Funny thing is, according to that logic you would have to remove all the G force stats and pretty much most of the detailed descriptions since most aren't officially stated either.
It's your choice to adopt my so called opinions which are purely base on facts and do not do any real changes on stated stats as far as I have seen them. They are more elaborate and detailed, just as have been done. You could just add notes, which is always a good idea to supplement official data. But I think I said something like that already. Well, I'm long done with this project anyway and my mechas, too. I still want to note that there are lots more that may need to be checked overall not just about this one show. ;)


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Traitor Villain
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Location: California
where did you get all these "facts" anyways?


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 2733
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The only source I'm seeing Almighty cite for this is "most japanese pages", but if so, they're not any pages I've ever seen. At the very least, one would normally expect a link.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:15 am 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
The most more or less 'legit' ones
http://ja.gundam.wikia.com/wiki/LM314V21_V2%E3%82%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/V2%E3%82%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0
http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimeComic-White/5599/gundam/history/uc_victory_lm.html
http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimeComic-White/5599/gundam/history/uc_victory_bespa.html
http://www.unkar.org/read/anime2.2ch.net/x3/1178632006
http://hiki.cre.jp/SRW/?VictryGundam

These don't have much interpretation of their own and list as is.
I forgo links to a bunch of others.... I'm doing quick but deep researches.

Edit:
Btw. you can contact Mr Okawara through Mr Hiroshi Akira Kato. But the information he provides come with a non-official notice. :lol: Well, I have a certain decency so I'm not bothering these people as a fan or such. If it's about business that's another matter. So I'm not providing the addresses either. Look for yourself.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 2733
Location: San Francisco, CA
You know, these links don't actually support your opinions.

On the V2 Gundam: The wiki pages and the message board thread (seriously, a message board thread?) say it has "beam saber x 4", as per the official specs. All of your links list the specific thruster outputs separately from the Minovsky drives as "sub thrusters" - the wiki pages add that the total is "impossible to measure" - and include "beam rifle with multiple launcher" under the weapons listing.

There's actually some legitimate uncertainty over how many beam sabers the V and V2 carry, but most of the links you provided support the official claim that they have four.

On the V Dash Gundam: The Geocities page lists the same thruster outputs as the official specs. Its weapons listing for the V Dash Core Booster includes "top-mounted beam gun x 2" and "side-mounted gatling gun x 2", which as I mentioned is indicated on the original line art.

On the Gottrlatan: The Geocities page does say it has triple micromissile pods, although everywhere else says they're six-barreled (including the official specs and the Wikipedia page, which I notice you didn't link to). Nobody agrees with you on the mega beam cannon.

If you're going to paste in a bunch of links as supporting evidence, you should check first to make sure they actually support your opinions. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.

Almighty wrote:
Btw. you can contact Mr Okawara through Mr Hiroshi Akira Kato. But the information he provides come with a non-official notice. :lol: Well, I have a certain decency so I'm not bothering these people as a fan or such. If it's about business that's another matter. So I'm not providing the addresses either. Look for yourself.

You realize that Okawara didn't design any of the machines we're discussing, right? But it's polite of you not to bother him with your pet theories anyway.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
Out of the 100+ japanese links I posted only the links that looked good. Yes, I didn't bother to recheck them. Half of the rest was about the mecha model details. Since, anime footage and models are obviously ignored here I didn't bother to repost those. Other would say these are canon. *shrug*


The missiles on the Gottrlatan is the same problem as has been listed for the six pods on the V2. Which I may remind that the two exit holes of one pod is still only one pod launcher. It would have hit the VSBR if shot up. We only see the outboard ones being fired. It's just more reasonable, although, getting a definitive confirmation is better.
The mega cannon has no single hole at the front but two at each sides. If that is no indication. Since it is one single structure calling it one cannon is correct. I didn't say it was two cannons, I said it was a dual barrel one. ;)
The hardpoints have to be changed, however.

Yes, I posted the thread because it used the 20G bit from here with the related discussions, including the notice of Hiroshi Ôsaka's death. It was a good archive to be shared. The I field generator & shield was support here (or above?) if I remember right.

Have you noticed the long and listing of every section of the V1/V2 gundam link?
Obviously someone else bothered making an analysis.

Okawara was the leading one if I remember right. Hajime Katoki on the other side has pretty much not updated his pages for ages, for which reason he created a blog. The blog, however, is close to dead. At least no one except him is active. And since he didn't list any agent to contact I didn't bother any further.

In any case I still had pointed out many obvious errors in writing/assignment. At least changed those. It's time for me take care of my more favorites stuff. So if that's all.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:07 pm 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
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Almighty wrote:
Out of the 100+ japanese links I posted only the links that looked good. Yes, I didn't bother to recheck them.

Then if nothing else, I'm grateful that you didn't post a hundred links for us to wade through! If you're planning on doing more of this sort of thing, you might find it more effective to find links that actually support your opinions.

As far as mecha designers, most of the Zanscare machines were designed by Junya Ishigaki, while Katoki designed the V and V2 Gundams and their assorted variations. There's even a site called MAHQ that lists the designers in its mecha profiles...

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Bald Wizard
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Almighty, please do everyone a favor and drop it with your theories. You're wasting everyone's time, including your own, along with clogging up this thread with stuff that doesn't belong here. I've known Mark for a long time, so trust me when I say that when it comes to Gundam, you're never going to one-up his knowledge and collection of information, and certainly not with a handful of flimsy links.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 am
Posts: 17
Oh, I did check Junya Ishigaki, only he doesn't really have a dedicated site. Well, actually he put up any other works than from V Gundam.

Well, there was one good link with sections for the mega beam shield and backpack. I will at least try to recover this one again.

I think I should explain something about the situation since it seems to me we got a little misunderstanding. I'm a power user, doing quick and extensive research is normal for me. I go roughly through 100+ pages an hour. Originally I just needed some data to create the V1/V2 for RPG. I already knew some of the problematic info and went to check, that's when I decided to share my findings. It was never really a pet project as you thought it was. Gundam ranks low on my list of favorites. (Sorry.) It was a side track activity of mine... I finished ten mecha last week during this little time and so was my research. I only posted the summary here. That's why I didn't make much notes on this and only drew on resources I already got at hand. But I gained about 700+ good model and original 3D design pictures from this. I also saved 1600+ files from the designers so I'm well stuffed for the future. :lol:
I still need to write 20 pages for the mechas for a forum and mailing list archive. *damn formats* Then take care of another army within the next days, including xxx automatic tactical performance tests, and I should finally get away from mechas. :lol: So I will probably not be around for months if not longer.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:35 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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I understand that you're busy. But so am I, and so are the MAHQ editors, and none of us really have the spare time to fact-check your pet theories. Some of these are interesting points, but it might be best to share your opinions in the mecha discussion forum, rather than pestering the site editors to make factual "corrections" without bothering to provide any supporting evidence. As it is, people are simply going to ignore you, which means you're wasting your own time as well.

Speaking of which, I'd better take my own advice and get back to work! :-)

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:08 am 
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Almighty wrote:
Oh, I did check Junya Ishigaki, only he doesn't really have a dedicated site. Well, actually he put up any other works than from V Gundam.

Does Junya Ishigaki's homepage not really count as a dedicated site?

I know it doesn't have the material being discussed, but we can't just say he's got nothing.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:43 am 
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Mecha Flunky

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 9:27 pm
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Not sure if this is the right section or not, but I was casually perusing the Japanese Wikipedia earlier and the relevant Gundam 00 article has names given for the A-LAWS vessels seen in S2.

I'd like to know what source was used for this because aside from the giant Regnant carrier I don't think there's been any official naming for those ships yet. Still, who knows - maybe someone with a better grasp of Japanese would like to poke around?

The relevant page is here, with a (very) rough Google Translate result of the appropriate section below.

Quote:
Baikal-class space cruiser
[[00F 』』 2nd appearance. EF regular army, and Arrows flagship cruiser. Hull of the type characterized by Tanburuhomu. Obitaruringu time for boarding and the movable bridge and left and right units. The machine can be equipped with MS 06, which is stored in the form of the head toward the bottom of the ship hatch sortie. The main armament for the laser gun and anti-ship missile GN deck. In the drama, and the pro-coup Gundam MS approach allows, occasionally showed a lot of it is sadly sunk.
Earth class battleship Guyana
』[2nd appearance. Large ship capable of flying under gravity. With a number of other possible MS, a total of 10 parts of the hull on 10m-class laser cannon, and with many mouths GN missiles, also has high thermal [18]. When landing the wings folded, as it can operate as a ground base. Federal Regular Army, operating in both the Arrows, but he was the captain and Sergei mannequin.
USS Bering Sea Level
』[2nd appearance. The large aircraft carrier style catamaran, which is operated by the Arrows. MS W-shaped back has a large hangar, at least at least 10 aircraft from MS seems to be that size can be mounted. Such as the Trilobite, MA was also used for large-scale underwater operations. Meinrezakyanon armed, and with air Rezafanrakusu, high combat ship itself [18].
Ural-class transport ship
[2nd 』transport ship that appeared. The machine also can be up to 96 with another MS, such as a laser gun with a total of 12 groups around the hull, yet also has a high thermal transport ship [18]. The hangar is large midships, as a large store can Regunanto MA.
The Arrows and the Battle of Lagrange 2, was operated as a coup led by pro mannequin ship.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:12 am 
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Master of Mecha

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
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These ship names were listed in the new "Ship & Aerospace Plane Encyclopedia" from Media Works, and they seem to be on the level. The Google Translate text looks like gibberish, though; it's probably not worth posting that stuff. :-)

The Guyana class is described in the book as a "mothership" (the kanji expression is more like "land mothership"), and the Bering class as an aircraft carrier.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:16 am 
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Mecha Flunky

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Well, how about that. I guess we should probably let the folks on the Gundam Wiki know as well.


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