Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

MAHQ's general podcast for nerdy things, which ran from 2011-2017.

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Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Chris » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:48 am

Chaos Theater Ep. 045 - "The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5"
- Download Now: 64 kbps - 146 mins, 59 sec. (2:26:59) 67.33 MB

Segment Breakdown for this Episode:

01. Intro: "What We've Been Up To"
Runtime: 0:00:01 - 0:27:58

02. Discussion: "The Dark Knight Returns"
Runtime: 0:28:27 - 1:08:12

03. Discussion: "Back to the Future: The Game (Part 5)"
Runtime: 1:08:48 - 1:36:01

04. Outro: "Audible recommendations", "Chaos Theater Mailbag" and "Internet whoring"
Runtime: 1:36:37 - 2:26:46

It's time for another fattening (yet delicious) installment of Chaos Theater. After catching up on what we've been doing, we get into an in-depth discussion of Frank Miller's class Batman graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns, along with its recent animated adaptation. Then it's time to bring our game club to a close as we cover "OUTATIME," the last episode of Back to the Future: The Game. We then wrap up with our Audible recommendations and your questions from the Mailbag. Next time, watch out for another voice actor interview.

Music Featured in this Episode:
"Boing Zoom DAKOTA!" from Rock Candy 1 by Shadow
"I Dream of Sushi" from Mass Effect 3: Citadel by Cris Velasco and Sascha Dikiciyan
"Shepard's Tango" from Mass Effect 3: Citadel by Sam Hulick
"Farewell and Into the Inevitable" from Mass Effect 3: Citadel by Sam Hulick

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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Gundam420 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:52 pm

The movie you guys are thinking of was Stuart Little.

And yes, Kid Tannen is Biff's father.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Varnis » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:31 am

Great, choosing The Walking Dead as the next game club topic gives me more incentive to start it since I bought the physical disc version, especially since finishing the latest Starcraft 2 game, I've been needing a reason to break away from it.

P.S. Props to Pedro for using some Mass Effect 3 tracks for this episode.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:21 pm

I haven't read the Dark Knight Returns graphic novel, but I did watch the movies. As with the rest of the DC animated movies I liked it and thought it was well done.

Despite what you might think I don't have any problems with Batman beating Superman at the end. Like you said, Batman planned extensively, had outside assistance, Superman was weakened, and it's not like the Man of Steel was seriously trying to kill his old friend. Even when he learned Bruce was still alive, he didn't do anything.

Still, you're incorrect in thinking Superman doesn't know what it's like to be vulnerable. Putting aside that there are many super powered beings that can and have beat Superman up using only their fists, people are always whipping out the kryptonite, or exposing him to red sunlight. I remember an episode of the animated series where some one turned our sun red and Superman had to deal with his vulnerability. Even without his powers, Superman is a hero at his core, and, while not on par with Bruce, Clark is still a clever guy.

Superman may be God-like, but that comes with it's own set of problems. Precisely because he's so powerful he has to be extra careful to use his power the right way. He tries to help humanity, but doesn't want to do everything for them. He doesn't want to force anything onto them either, even if it's tempting due to how easy that would be. There have been times where he makes the wrong decision, screwes up royally, and has to deal with the consequences of that.

Yes, this all depends on the writer, but Batman's the same way and he can be just as bad. Pedro touched on it with All Star Batman and Robin: Batman is always right and every other hero is an idiot. Batman can pull whatever plan out of his ass, or grabs the right thing on his utility belt and it always saves the day. In Act of God everyone loses their powers and eventually they see the "light" and realise how TOTALLY AWESOME AND PERFECT Batman is for fighting crime without super powers.

It's this prevalent attitude of kissing Batman's ass and treating Superman like a total loser that I hate. That's why I'm in Superman's corner because some one has to be. He deserves more than what Batman fans give him.

And perhaps this was unintentional, but some of your comments sounded like you were looking down on the Adam West version and the 'damage' it did. Adam West's Batman was awesome!
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Chris » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:58 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:It's this prevalent attitude of kissing Batman's ass and treating Superman like a total loser that I hate. That's why I'm in Superman's corner because some one has to be. He deserves more than what Batman fans give him.

And perhaps this was unintentional, but some of your comments sounded like you were looking down on the Adam West version and the 'damage' it did. Adam West's Batman was awesome!
Typical. Of course you have to defend Supes just to be contrarian, like you always are. You always defend these characters because "someone" has to. 8)

And yes, Adam West's version did damage Batman because it made an entire generation of people think that Batman was a goofy character. If you watch clips of how the 1989 Tim Burton movie was talked about, there's lot of references to the 60s show because they just assumed that's what Batman was supposed to be like. I perfectly enjoy West as a Shatner-esque caricature of himself or his insane version on Family Guy, but his Batman did the character no favors.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:37 pm

Well I do genuinely like Superman. The contrarianism merely intensifies it :lol: If the opposition is fierce I have to step up my game, don't I?

But really, Batman used to be all goofy and stuff in the comics too. He was only around for about a year before Robin entered the picture. Adam West's portrayal was actually the more faithful one to the source material. So rather than Adam West 'ruining' it and Miller 'fixing it', it's simply Batman being one way and then being reinvented in another.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Chris » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:51 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Well I do genuinely like Superman. The contrarianism merely intensifies it :lol: If the opposition is fierce I have to step up my game, don't I?
Something that has always baffled me. Why do you need to "step up your game"? Why do you care if other people don't like something you do, and why does it compel you to defend it? Superman isn't real, and his feelings aren't going to be hurt if you're not fighting on his behalf online.

I also never denied that Batman has been goofy in the comics, and we mentioned that in the episode. Nor did I say that West "ruined" the character, so don't put words in my mouth.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:41 pm

Chris wrote:Something that has always baffled me. Why do you need to "step up your game"? Why do you care if other people don't like something you do, and why does it compel you to defend it? Superman isn't real, and his feelings aren't going to be hurt if you're not fighting on his behalf online.
I don't know. Why do we get worked up when bad things happen to characters we like? Why are we sad when they die? Why do we care what happens to them at all? They aren't real, as you say.

Obviously I know this, and it's not like I'm gonna make a youtube video of me crying and going "LEAVE SUPERMAN ALONE!!!" But I think it's reasonable enough for me to voice my disagreement when you voice your own opinion of him. And obviously when the opponent in such a debate is pretty good at it, I need to try harder to make good arguments in return.

I mean, this forum is for such discussions, isn't it?
Chris wrote:I also never denied that Batman has been goofy in the comics, and we mentioned that in the episode. Nor did I say that West "ruined" the character, so don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't say you said that. I was speaking in general terms and putting the word in quotation marks meant I was using the word loosely. Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Mu La Flaga » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:15 pm

Well this was rather informative to listen to that whole segment on Dark Knight Returns.
I haven't read a whole of Batman stuff, so it's nice to hear he can do some bad ass stuff on his own even when he is much older :P

As for SEGA, well I just thought to bring it up because they are being kind of dicks on youtube or in general it seems.

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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Chris » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:47 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:I don't know. Why do we get worked up when bad things happen to characters we like? Why are we sad when they die? Why do we care what happens to them at all? They aren't real, as you say.

Obviously I know this, and it's not like I'm gonna make a youtube video of me crying and going "LEAVE SUPERMAN ALONE!!!" But I think it's reasonable enough for me to voice my disagreement when you voice your own opinion of him. And obviously when the opponent in such a debate is pretty good at it, I need to try harder to make good arguments in return.

I mean, this forum is for such discussions, isn't it?
There's nothing wrong with caring about what happens to characters. You're missing the point. There's also nothing wrong with arguing in defense of your position, but there's a limit to that. I don't know anyone else who feels this compulsion to defend fiction to the lengths you do simply because *other people* don't like it. Or the fact that you feel even more compelled to do so just because X number of people are "against" a character/series. I may give an argument on the merits of Zeta Gundam in a discussion, but I'm not going to go on a crusade defending it just because /m/ likes to go on and on about how terrible they think the show is.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Were I to psychoanalyze myself I'd say it's a simple matter of projection. When I feel I see something or some one, fictional or otherwise, being unfairly picked on (key word: unfairly) I see myself in them. I've been a victim of bullying all my life and no one has ever stood up for me. I could always be bitter about that and go "No one stands up for me so I won't stand up for anyone!" but I don't want to be like that. I want to be some one who will stand up for others. I know how it feels so I feel more empathy and get more attached as a result.

You might be rolling your eyes but that's just how it is. I definitely don't think I've been in any way unreasonable about my defense of things. Besides, this is, like, only the second time it's been about Superman specifically and I think it's been quite awhile since the last one. My sig is merely a funny line from a College Humor video.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Chris » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:31 pm

I'm not rolling my eyes, but it still doesn't make any sense. I was bullied as a kid and I know plenty of other people who were as well. I wouldn't say myself or any of them are cynical like that about standing up for people. But again, we're talking about fictional characters. Criticizing the writing or depiction of a character isn't anywhere near the same as bullying people. They don't need you to stand up for them. And I'm not just talking about Supes here, this has been the case with multiple characters for as long as I've known you.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:55 pm

What can I say? I just don't have the mental or emotional fortitude that you or others have. But we're not here to play Freud.

And yeah, criticizing the depiction is one thing (remember how I said unfairly picked on?) but a lot of hate gets placed on the characters themselves. Obviously I don't need to stand up for them, but I will anyways. Just like how people don't need to voice their dislike but will anyways.

As it stands it's not like I'm gonna start cutting myself just because a fictional character is hated so I still don't see how it's much of a problem. Besides, there's plenty of ridicule pointed at me directly for me to get upset about.
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Re: Ep. 045: The Dark Knight Returns & Game Club Pt. 5

Post by The Fowl Sorcerous » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:24 pm

The problem with the dark knight returns is that its re-imagining of the Batman character and presentation is that it's become so much a part of Batman's dna the only thing that stands out about it today are the seeds of Frank Miller's insanity and/or bad writing habits.

As for the movie version, I watched the first part when it came out and was just disappointed. Not that there aren't some great elements to the movie but it seems like a direct translation of the comic except the setting. I liked the cyber-punkish distopian vibe of gotham in the comic and here the city seems like bruce wayne only took an extended vacation. So all during my viewing I kept saying to myself 'you kept every single page of the talking heads on the news exposition sequences, but couldn't get the setting right. grr.' It's dumb and fanboyish, but that's how i feel about it. I really think this could have been adapted to a single 90 minute piece and kept the emotional core of the story, this version just seems bloated.

I've never liked the Superman arc, not because I'm in love with superman, but the idea of his descent to government-controlled death machine and redemption there from should be much bigger than something to make 80-year old Batman look bad-ass.

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