Ep. 007 - 00: Month 3, Macross Frontier, Super Tomino Wars I

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Ep. 007 - 00: Month 3, Macross Frontier, Super Tomino Wars I

Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:41 am

Wake your daughter up! Another episode of Gundamn! @ MAHQ has sortied!

Ep. 007 - 00: Month Three, Macross Frontier, Super Tomino Wars! (Part One)
Regular Version - Unplugged Version

In Episode 007, we discuss subjects new and old as:

- "MSG00: Month Three" - The saga of Continues with Eps. 9-12
- "Return to Macross" - Sneak-Peek of the pilot episode of Macross Frontier
- "Super Tomino Wars I" - finally we start our two-part roundtable on the "Bald Wizard" himself, Yoshiyuki Tomino, rapping about his Gundam series.

The ball is rolling on Japan's favorite baldy. In episode 8, we'll get into his non-Gundam works! Strap in!

Thanks for listening & Enjoy!

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Post by Destiny_Gundam » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:00 pm

Another good episode. I do have one thing to say though.

Comparing Saji to King Arthur made me shake my head in shame.
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Post by hawk of endymion » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Another good episode. I do have one thing to say though.

Comparing Saji to King Arthur made me shake my head in shame.
LOL, my heads been shaking for a long time.

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Post by Skippy438 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:15 pm

Another great episode guys, keep them coming! I wholeheartedly agree with Neo's rating for Macross F, the things I disliked the most with the new series are the homo-avis flight suits it introduced. I think they look foolish and I find the concept awkward and unnecessary. 26 episodes from now I'm sure I'll love them, but we'll see in April.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to the show too. Just thought the opening ep. could've been a little better.

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Post by Destiny_Gundam » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:49 pm

Skippy438 wrote:Another great episode guys, keep them coming! I wholeheartedly agree with Neo's rating for Macross F, the things I disliked the most with the new series are the homo-avis flight suits it introduced. I think they look foolish and I find the concept awkward and unnecessary. 26 episodes from now I'm sure I'll love them, but we'll see in April.
I thought those flight suits were really cool. They're quite practical as ejection devices that let you keep fighting. Naturally they're no match for space bugs though.
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Post by V2Buster » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:56 am

Neo's argument against Alto knowing how to fly the valkyrie was pretty ill informed, since if he was paying attention he would have known that Alto and his colleagues were cadets at the pilot academy, hence why they were training with the suits. It's not much of a leap of logic to assume that a pilot trainee would know how a Valkyrie worked. Hikaru is still the only main character in Macross that didn't know what he was stepping into, but he was at least still a pilot and the VF-1 was still a plane when Roy told him to take it for a spin.

As for the camera gig at Sheryl's concert, it was pretty obvious that it was a part time job that they had picked up for that one event.

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Post by hawk of endymion » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:34 pm

V2Buster wrote:Neo's argument against Alto knowing how to fly the valkyrie was pretty ill informed, since if he was paying attention he would have known that Alto and his colleagues were cadets at the pilot academy, hence why they were training with the suits. It's not much of a leap of logic to assume that a pilot trainee would know how a Valkyrie worked. Hikaru is still the only main character in Macross that didn't know what he was stepping into, but he was at least still a pilot and the VF-1 was still a plane when Roy told him to take it for a spin.

As for the camera gig at Sheryl's concert, it was pretty obvious that it was a part time job that they had picked up for that one event.
How is that being ill informed? Just because someone knows how something works does not mean that person is able to operate it. For example, I understand how a Formula One car works and have experience driving, but that does not mean I would be able to operate the car the first time out or even be able to get it out of first gear.

Now regarding Alto's situation, we don't know how much training, if any, he had on the suits or Valkyries. My observation was that we were being fed the same old plot device regarding the main character's introduction to the suit, not his knowledge. In addition, what logic is there having civilian suits being able to interface with military suits. Talk about lack of security, that's like having one key for everything.

My comments dealt with more with the story direction, instead of the character's knowledge.

But, thanks a lot for the comment. And keep them coming, when we cover Macross Frontier in the future.
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Post by V2Buster » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:56 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:In addition, what logic is there having civilian suits being able to interface with military suits. Talk about lack of security, that's like having one key for everything.
Again, one of Alto's squadmates comments that the suit they wear is the same model as the ones that are used in the military, so it's logical to assume that they're training to fly valkyries at the academy.

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Post by SOCL » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:05 am

Great episodes, gents! As always, I enjoyed it thoroughly! :)

I guess I never really had a problem with the environmentalist perspective put into the show--heck, there hardly exists any of that in anything, so at the least it seemed like an interesting change of perspective. I can understand that one wants to watch anime to get away from the real world, but I suppose it's all at the discretion of the director and/or writer and what he or she is trying to bring to light. I personally believe that emphasizing the jeopardy humankind has put Earth in is quite good, which is quite similar to Char's comments in Zeta about "further polluting the Earth". But I digress...

I hate to be a complaint-department, but I had hoped that the show would exclusively cover Gundam, the title being Gundamn, so the Macross and such being thrown in with major segments kind of turns things off to me. That's not to say a mention of other mecha/anime series shouldn't be allowed, in fact, I can see how it would be necessary, I just want to hear more analysis and talk about Gundam as a whole and less about mecha anime in general. I'm likely a minority here, but I figure some original feedback might be in order.

I look forward to Episode 8!
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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:01 am

Well, you'll get your fill in Ep. 8. After recording it last night, we wax about Gundam longer than we ever have! Seriously, though, I my eyes Gundam relates to every mecha show in some way, and even in that Macross Frontier segment, we also made comparisons of it to 00. You have a very valid point though, SOCL, and as always I appreciate your insight and creative criticism, man ^_^
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Post by Chris » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:37 am

SOCL wrote:I hate to be a complaint-department, but I had hoped that the show would exclusively cover Gundam, the title being Gundamn, so the Macross and such being thrown in with major segments kind of turns things off to me. That's not to say a mention of other mecha/anime series shouldn't be allowed, in fact, I can see how it would be necessary, I just want to hear more analysis and talk about Gundam as a whole and less about mecha anime in general. I'm likely a minority here, but I figure some original feedback might be in order.
There's a whole world of mecha out there aside from Gundam, and we want to cover it all. Gundam is certainly big enough that we could do the podcast for years on just it, but I think we would all get sick of it. Even though MAHQ is best known for Gundam coverage, we've always covered more than just that because I know I'd get sick of Gundam if it was all I ever wrote about. The same goes for the podcast. Even though we'll be focusing on mecha anime as a whole, believe me, our list of upcoming topics is like 80% Gundam-related anyway, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. For example- although it's only been mentioned in passing here, when 00's first season ends, we're going to devote one segment each episode to every Gundam anime produced, all the way from the original series up to STARGAZER. And for pain, we might even do G-Saviour.
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Post by SOCL » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:35 pm

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I was saying it was bad, I just personally prefer Gundam since I know little to nothing about the rest of the mecha-anime genre. Ironically, and perhaps positively, it has led to my interest in seeing Dunbine, based on the descriptions I heard in the show. So perhaps the non-Gundam segments are good. :lol:

Keep up the good work, gents! I look forward to more! :D
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Post by Quiddity » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:21 pm

*SPOILERS, OF COURSE. CLOSE YOUR EYES SOCL*

Good episode guys, from what I listed to anyway. Skipped the 00 and Macross segment as I haven't watched any of them yet and don't want to be spoiled, but did listen to the Tomino segment.

Comments:
-Man, would have loved if Emma could have lived to ZZ (which I'm currently watching now for the first time, up to ep 5) as originally planned. One of my favorite if not my favorite Gundam female of all time :( Although I agree that her role doesn't fit as well with Zeta over; not so much the lack of the Titans but the big sister role to Kamille, whose a vegetable by ZZ.

-Glad to hear Chris accurately account for Tomino's Kill Em All style origins, with all that misdirection out there about him being depressed or on medication (not that I would ever expect you to get it wrong :P). The deaths being concentrated at the end of Zeta did not so much bother me as much as say Dunbine though, where I really felt it was to the point of absurdity, as I think I mention in my reviews up on the site. Dragging things out for 15 or so episodes then killing every single major character off except for Todd(who died in ep 46 I believe) in episodes 48 and 49 has always bugged me. Not so much the deaths, but wasting so many episodes before that. At least in Zeta things were slightly better spreaded out with characters like Jamaican and Four dying off much earlier.

-ID EEY UN? Yikes. O_o EEY DAY ON.

Looking forward to the Tomino discussion next ep! Make sure to follow up the interesting death discussion with some of the notable ones from Zambot, Dunbine and Ideon! :P
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Post by SOCL » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:00 pm

If there are plans to discuss memorable death scenes, I think Gihren's death in the novel version of MSG must be covered, as well as Kyclilia's less-than-amazing death in the book...
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Post by thanatos » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:00 am

Another great episode guys. Though I did skip the Gundam 00 and Macross parts because I haven't seen them yet.

The Tomino analysis was great. I was intrigued by those plans for ZZ. One can only imagine what that would have been like...
I think Tomino has embraced the Gundam franchise, to an extent. The whole Turn A theory of all the series being part of one long (though disjointed) saga is proof. I guess you could call that acknowledgement by Tomino of what Gundam has become. That combined with his comment that Gundam should have younger directors makes me think that Tomino and Gundam have parted ways for good.

Someone mentioned they'd like to see a non-mecha series by Tomino. I'd say that Turn A is pretty much it since mobile suits play as small a role in that series than any other Gundam series. They're really more like tools used to move the plot forward than the focus of the show. They could very well have dug out giant trucks, like in Ideon, and the same story could have been told. That's the greatest strength/weakness (depends on your opinion) of Turn A: there's so much character development and interaction that all out combat is seldom seen.
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Looking forward to the next episode.

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Post by thehod » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:51 am

Nice analysis of Tomino's style of anime. It is true how Char and Jerid both have a major disappearance to the point where you ask yourself "what happened to these guys?"

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Post by Quiddity » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:04 am

I don't recall either having a large absense in Zeta; maybe 3-4 episodes a couple of times, but never anything like the huge 20+ episode absenses that happened with Bask and Rosamia as mentioned in the podcast where you wonder if they even exist anymore. Char did have about a 15 episode or so absense in MSG if I remember correctly after Dozle kicked him out of his forces due to Garma's death.
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Post by mcred23 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:40 am

Quiddity wrote:I don't recall either having a large absense in Zeta; maybe 3-4 episodes a couple of times, but never anything like the huge 20+ episode absenses that happened with Bask and Rosamia as mentioned in the podcast where you wonder if they even exist anymore. Char did have about a 15 episode or so absense in MSG if I remember correctly after Dozle kicked him out of his forces due to Garma's death.
Jerid is absent for about eight episodes following Jaburo, and he isn't seen again until the return to space, after which he remains around fairly constantly. Char isn't seen for about seven episodes in Zeta, after he leaves Earth and before he returns for Operation Apollo. Whether or not someone would call those "large" absences is mainly a matter of preference.

And you do remember correctly, Char was out of MSG for 13 or 14 episodes during MSG after Garma's death and before he returns with the Mad Angler Squadron (The number of episodes depends on whether or not you count Cucuruz Doan's Island).
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Post by SOCL » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 am

I think Rosamia's absence is both important and necessary to the show. Think about it, suddenly this young, pretty enemy pilot who is a cyber-Newtype shows up on the scene and does some damage, then you think she's dead (at least I did when I saw her first episode). The Rosamia who appears next isn't Rosamia at all--in fact, I think it's inadequate to call her Rosamia at all since she's a completely different character, rebuilt from the ground up as Rosamy. Hell, it took me a while to realize it was the same pilot as before! Then suddenly, she becomes a third character, something more vicious and utterly disturbed than the professional-esque pilot from the first time around and the happy-go-lucky little girl from the second bit. It shows how someone who is nearly completely stable (as in the first bit) is utterly destroyed by warfare. Her first appearance can be considered the "average pilot" routine where she does her job and follows her orders to the best of her ability. Then suddenly we get this sort of back-in-time glimpse at the person Rosamia was as a child, and then we get the truly destroyed soul of Lieutenant Rosamia Badan, tortured by war. It's the evolution of the human spirit in the midst of war. Granted, there is an in-universe explanation, namely all the cyberization experiments and such she is forced to undergo by the various Titan-controlled Newtype labs...and yet the important part isn't the actual there-and-not of the character, but what the character becomes. It's nearly the same with Four, only that with Four its actually easier to take in some ways because she never shows that truly innocent side we see in Rosamy. I think Rosamia's story was truly horrific and symbolizes how governments and nations are willing to use their people to whatever ends are required for the state's goals to be accomplished.

I also think this grumbling about characters disappearing is, with all due respect, pointless. You're not always going to see your best friend every day and at times, especially in war (and for soldiers), you may see him or her after one, two, three--ten years, and then who are they? They aren't the same person you remember joking with, going out to hit up the pubs, or just watching TV with--they're different...utterly so.

If we're talking about villains/bad-guys coming and suddenly going, then returning--think about it in real-world terms. Osama bin Laden works in conjunction with the CIA to oust the Soviet presence in Afghanistan during the 1980s and then disappears off the face of the earth. He returns, rather like Char does in 0093, with a vastly different outlook on life and the world and decides to lead a war against his former allies--i.e. the United States of America (rather how Char led a war against the EFF, though technically he never made peace with them--yes, I know--he still had allies within the Federation; also, recall a line Amuro delivers in Char's Counterattack about how Char's time working for/with the Federation in the form of the AEUG has led him to grow angrier and bitter with the Federation and the Earth as a whole). Osama bin Laden turns up and hits American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, then goes into hiding again, only to return on September 11, 2001--we all know the outcome. And where is he now? In hiding. Will he turn up again? No one knows. The point is that real-world villains/bad-guys do this all the time. It's not just an anime/Gundam thing, it's a strategic thing.

As for Char disappearing--hell, he had good reason. After betraying Garma, he has to go into hiding, and likely for good reason as it's easily possibility that Dozle would sooner see him dead. Luckily for Char, Kycilia saves him from a certain court-martial and essentially forces him into hiding in plain sight, namely as something of an anonymous officer within the Zeon forces. He won't make an appearance again until the Battle of Jaburo, likely because the moment is right for the Red Comet to return, and by now the war is growing desperate for the Zeon on Earth. The Zeon high command has no choice but to allow a capable officer like Char to return to front-line duty, political considerations aside--no doubt, had Zeon won the war, Char would still have been court-martialed or assassinated. As it turns out, Char fails at Jaburo, just another sign of how desperate things are becoming for the Zeon, but rather than punish him openly through a court-martial, Kycilia saves him again and puts him in a post that to most in the Zeon military must seem backwater and rather like a coastal-artillery command in Montana; she puts him in charge of the Zeon Newtype Corps.

His disappearances and reappearances, as well as most others, aren't odd, but rather logical and, from the standpoint of developing the character, necessary.

Those are my three and half cents on the matter,
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Post by Quiddity » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:51 am

I think many times the character absenses are necessary. Gundam shows always have huge casts. You reach a certain point where you simply can't give every person an appearance. The only other option is to either cut down on the number of characters in the first place, or kill those characters off. In the long run I don't consider it a very significant flaw with Gundam or Tomino. I like the large casts and understand what has to come with them.
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