Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Taekmkm » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:41 am

Let me restate my main issue before it becomes muddled again.

Rebuild of Evangelion is made by Studio Khara, not Gainax. Anno is the money whore, not Gainax. Complain and ridicule all you want about Evangelion and how they spam items as much as Bandai in half the time, but don't take it out on a studio that has done nothing but unique, original work when very few others have.

I honestly don't care as much you seem to think I do about Evangelion, but I care about right information at the very least (and words not being put in my mouth.)

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Dollow » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:28 pm

I was listening to ep. 58, and SBR did give the Serenity movies Three SBRGs, the more he gives of them it seems like they have less of an impact. Again there was something that cross my mind when I was listening to this ep, are you guys even slightly afraid of the world that Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. presents that for alll we know could be our future? And if so what does, if you don't mind me asking.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Chris » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:25 am

Dollow wrote:are you guys even slightly afraid of the world that Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. presents that for alll we know could be our future? And if so what does, if you don't mind me asking.
I think that in the GitS future, cybernetic body parts would be a great thing, especially for amputees. However, I'm more wary of brain cyberization. While it would surely make communication easier, I don't like the idea of talking to people in my head. Our minds are the only sanctuary we have that's truly ours, so I don't want to hear someone else's voice talking to me. I also don't like the idea that people can hack into your head and erase your memories, or take control of you. Those are pretty scary prospects.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by jabman025 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:16 pm

that is one of the creepier aspects of Ghost in the Shell. I don't mind cybernectic body parts to help amputess or make the deaf hear or make the blind see. But if you cyberize your brain aren't you just killing yourself and making a robot copy. If you think about it the Major isn't the really a person anymore she is a copy of a person......or is she?
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Chris » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:24 pm

jabman025 wrote:that is one of the creepier aspects of Ghost in the Shell. I don't mind cybernectic body parts to help amputess or make the deaf hear or make the blind see. But if you cyberize your brain aren't you just killing yourself and making a robot copy. If you think about it the Major isn't the really a person anymore she is a copy of a person......or is she?
Not exactly. Cyberizing your brain adds mechanical parts to it, but you're still you. It's something almost everyone does, even Togusa, so if cyberizing your brain made you not human, most people wouldn't be human. The Major is still a person in the way that matters - she has a human brain inside of an android body. Of course, the question of where you draw the line between human and machine is one of the central philosophical questions of the series.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by jabman025 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:34 pm

Chris wrote:
jabman025 wrote:that is one of the creepier aspects of Ghost in the Shell. I don't mind cybernectic body parts to help amputess or make the deaf hear or make the blind see. But if you cyberize your brain aren't you just killing yourself and making a robot copy. If you think about it the Major isn't the really a person anymore she is a copy of a person......or is she?
Not exactly. Cyberizing your brain adds mechanical parts to it, but you're still you. It's something almost everyone does, even Togusa, so if cyberizing your brain made you not human, most people wouldn't be human. The Major is still a person in the way that matters - she has a human brain inside of an android body. Of course, the question of where you draw the line between human and machine is one of the central philosophical questions of the series.

Thats what I am saying if your brain is replaced by a machine (even partialy) and all of or your thoughts and memories are copied to it, are you still human or are you just a program running from that machine.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:38 pm

Actually, the Major doesn't have a human brain anymore. Everything about her is 100% machine, including her brain. On several occasions she's completely changed her body, brain and all, as opposed to others who move their cyber brains into the new body. This is a major part of her character, as she herself is not sure if she's human anymore
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Chris » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:32 pm

jabman025 wrote:Thats what I am saying if your brain is replaced by a machine (even partialy) and all of or your thoughts and memories are copied to it, are you still human or are you just a program running from that machine.
It's not a machine brain. As shown in the series, it's still a human brain encased in a mechanical shell.
Destiny_Gundam wrote:Actually, the Major doesn't have a human brain anymore. Everything about her is 100% machine, including her brain. On several occasions she's completely changed her body, brain and all, as opposed to others who move their cyber brains into the new body. This is a major part of her character, as she herself is not sure if she's human anymore
She still has a human brain, at least in SAC. She doesn't change brains, only bodies. When she had to change bodies in the first season, that assassin tried to kill her by sticking acupuncture needles in her brain. There have been multiple occasions where it's stated that the only thing left in her that's human is her brain, especially when they talk about her childhood accident in 2nd Gig.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by hawk of endymion » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:03 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
hawk of endymion wrote:Yeah, right. It's just because I don't share the hive mind mentality of Eva and these people need to troll.
So just because we disagree with you, we're trolling, eh Neo?

Dislike Eva all you want, that's just fine. What I take issue with is how you're always holding it up as the paragon of things that have a lot of retellings when it doesn't deserve that. It only has 2, 3 if you count the manga adaptation. I'm tired of you bringing it up over and over again when there are lots of other things you should use instead. How about all the rbe-releases of the Star Wars films? Or how about Blade Runner, which has 7 versions of the same movie?

You don't have to like Eva, you don't have to think it's the greatest anime of all time (I certainly don't think it is), but stop being unecessarily mean about it, especially in the one particular area that you overexaggerate.
Yeah, it is trolling, because you idiots are the ones that brought up Eva initially. Just like you think because I'm not cool with the eva retellings, I hate Eva. Kinda dumb logic, eh?

I use Eva as an example of retellings, because it is 1. a mecha show, 2. it's constantly in the news, and 3. because you and your followers took a conversation of a live action gundam movie and made it about gundam vs. eva (which was never mentioned by me).

I think I've been critical enough of Star Wars and Blade Runner, well, we haven't talked about it yet (and I don't know if we will). And in regards to Blade runners, most of those versions just had unreleased footage if I recall. Not the case in Eva. Last, I think the three of us have been critical of gundam, not matter the show.

I don't know if you're hard of hearing or suffer from selective hearing, it just seems as soon a the word "Eva" is mentioned, your fanboy blinders engage.

I'm starting to wonder, who would win in a fight the Robotech Defense Force, the Transformers Defense Force or the Eva Defense Force. Might be an entertaining pay per view.

Good day.

Ugh, How about that GITS:SAC, good stuff.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by jabman025 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:22 pm

I stand corrected Chris, your right.

The only thing still human about the major is her brain, everything else is machine.

Does anyone know if Aoi (aka The laughing man) was fully cyberized?
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Mu La Flaga » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:02 am

On a topic related note, WHY can't we all put our hate in to something more productive for bashing/hating on?
Such as Robotech Shadow Chronicles.
By the way you 2(Neo and Destiny Gundam) are going at it, I would have thought the General Austin had posessed you both or something along those lines. :mrgreen:
It's not really worth dragging it out for.

I mean let's just stop and break it down for a moment.

You have Evangelion the series, you have the director's cut episodes, you have Death and Rebirth and End of Evangelion movies, then you have the remake movies and then the manga.
I don't think need to bash it over the head how some companies just decide to milk products for all they are worth it happened with DBZ and others.

I believe some of the remakes are a good thing(the rebuild movies) and some bad(the director's cut movies or Death and Rebirth movie which is totally skippable mostly)

So those are my thoughts to throw in here, it aint really worth it for you both to go at it, over a topic which has been done to death numerous times before.

I mean I think Eva is a bit overhyped, but I like the remake movies, I have all those versions of things listed.
I mean I can see where Destiny is coming from that it just gets bashed unfairly.
But Neo's side is also kind of valid, in all fairness(I mean it gets so much exposure at times, then again you are the ill informed newscaster), I think balance and a little more respect is needed from both sides.

I just find it silly your both getting worked up over that.

I mean OK taking Neo's earlier post.
"I'll will say this though, Eva is better than MD Geist and MD Geist 2: Death Force."

Alot of things are but why compare to Eva just because it ranks lowly in his mind.
It is his opinion, why not respect it and move on?

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:07 pm

Chris wrote:She still has a human brain, at least in SAC. She doesn't change brains, only bodies. When she had to change bodies in the first season, that assassin tried to kill her by sticking acupuncture needles in her brain. There have been multiple occasions where it's stated that the only thing left in her that's human is her brain, especially when they talk about her childhood accident in 2nd Gig.
I'm still not sure... I mean, yeah she still has a cyber brain, but I don't know if it's actually her original brain or not. That scene when she switches bodies I recall her 'soul' being transfered over via wires, not by removing her cyberbrain and putting it into the new body. The whole reason she got out of that situation is that she sent her mind back into her old body via the wires because her new body was sabotauged. Let's not forget SSS, where she sent her mind into and used a bunch of different bodies without removing her cyberbrain.

Well, this is just what I remember anyways so I could be wrong...
hawk of endymion wrote:I don't know if you're hard of hearing or suffer from selective hearing, it just seems as soon a the word "Eva" is mentioned, your fanboy blinders engage.
And whenever Eva is mentioned, you get a huge stick up your ass. Seriously Neo, you always get pissy when it comes to Evangelion, and that's why people think you hate it, not because you're not cool with the retellings.

So what if Eva was brought up when discussing a live action Gundam? You could have just ignored it, but you made it a point to let your displeasure known. It's not all that unrelated, either, as the fact remains that apparently Gundam = not popular enough to get a live action movie, Eva = popular enough to get a live action movie (even if it's in development Hell).

It's perfectly fine to not like Eva, so that's not the issue here. The issue is you being completely unfair about one aspect. You've always harped on this one thing and I finally just got sick of it which is why I called you out on it. Yes, despite popular belief I do have a spine.

Well, I've said my piece so I won't bother with this topic any further.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Taekmkm » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:10 pm

I'm sorry, now you're blaming us for trolling when you started the insults?
And Gundam is far more confusing than Evangelion when it comes to the "Where do I start" syndrome for new fans. Not even close.
And you responded with an elitist backslap
Are you serious? There's Universal Century and Alternative Century, not Universal Century 1.1, 2.0 etc.

I see that the licensing of Turn A has cause an epidemic of Gundam/Mainstream Derangement syndrome.
And then I explain myself more clearly that two times Evangelion has been used is, logically, much easier to explain than 10+ shows that have Gundam in their name
Eva has two. The Series->EoE, and Rebuild. If you're honestly suggesting 10+ shows is easier to introduce than 1 show and a movie series, then whatevs.
And then you throw this out of nowhere
OK, I understand that I have to deal with fanboy dreamer at times.
I will say this now and will defend this to the end, Eva is not "the greatest anime of all time", it is MSG. Because without MSG(or really Ideon), there's no Eva. At least SUnrise tried to change some aspects of the AC gundam, what's Gainex excuse?

Gundam in its core is a war story, not a story of unrelated judo-christian themes that sound cool.
Where in ANYWHERE did I compare the quality, or even mention the two franchises story?

And then you call out on Gainax. What did Gainax do? Well, they certainly didn't do Rebulid.

So when one person (Which is Destiny, so this "hive-mind" insult also comes out of nowhere) calls out on you not liking Eva a tad bit, it wasn't random.

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Chris » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:15 pm

Guys, give it a rest. This is going nowhere and never will. You've got two sets of beliefs here about Eva, and nothing said is going to make either side change what they think. There's no point in continuing this.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Dollow » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:37 pm

Chris wrote:Guys, give it a rest. This is going nowhere and never will. You've got two sets of beliefs here about Eva, and nothing said is going to make either side change what they think. There's no point in continuing this.
I agree, lets just cool down here.

EDIT

All this fighting is reminds me of
this picture. Lets us just cool down and be respectful.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Dollow » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:17 am

I am downloading ep 60. I am so happy.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by Seraphic » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:16 pm

I'm actually pretty fascinated with cyber-brains. I always wonder what the education system is like in the GitS world because I'll be teaching high school soon. I think it could be a wonderful tool, but it could definitely be abused. Is there any detail on this in the manga or the books?

For some reason I've only seen the 2nd MD Geist movie which you tell me is the worst of the two. Should I bother to look for the first?? But good god, I couldn't believe I sat through any of that.

For other bad anime, I would like to suggest the X movie (not the series) or the Highlander anime movie. Sorry, I can't think of many mecha ones.

If you guys want to cover some bad live action, do Ultraviolet, lol. I had to fast-forward through that movie and it was still bad!!

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by MrVince » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:33 am

hawk of endymion wrote:Here's an idea for James Cameron now, write your own story.
Maybe I'm giving you too much credit, but are you (Neo) referring to the two Outer Limits episodes which serve as a basis for the original Terminator? If yes, I'd like to say out "ouch".

This was a really good episode.

I've heard at least a couple times in this podcast "Gibson" mentioned when discussing GITS. I'm probably one of the rare ones who read William Gibson's Cyberpunk trilogy as well as the Bridge Trilogy before picking up the VHS copy of the GITS movie. Those Gibson books really gave me additional appreciation for GITS. The movies and the series was a nice visualization of Gibson's stuff.

A couple interesting parallels (or maybe influences) from Gibson's works:
  • The Puppet Master's objective is very similar to Wintermute's from Neuromancer.
  • The protagonist of Count Zero, Turner, has a background and disposition similar to that of Battou.
Slight tangent moment, but I also think Automatic Jack from Gibson's short story Burning Chrome is the basis for Jet Black in Cowboy Bebop.

Going back on track, I highly recommend the Cyberpunk Trilogy of books for those who have some time to kill. For those with a bit less time but looking for a good taste of Gibson's works, I highly recommend two of his short stories... Johnny Mnemonic and Burning Chrome.

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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by jcncasval76 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:56 pm

Chris wrote:
Dollow wrote:are you guys even slightly afraid of the world that Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. presents that for alll we know could be our future? And if so what does, if you don't mind me asking.
I think that in the GitS future, cybernetic body parts would be a great thing, especially for amputees. However, I'm more wary of brain cyberization. While it would surely make communication easier, I don't like the idea of talking to people in my head. Our minds are the only sanctuary we have that's truly ours, so I don't want to hear someone else's voice talking to me. I also don't like the idea that people can hack into your head and erase your memories, or take control of you. Those are pretty scary prospects.
If anyone remembers this movie - the Minority Report, starred by Tom Cruise - and the premise of using your thought against you even though no actual event was enacted, that is just as scary as being probed into someone's head without permission.
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Re: Ep. 059 - Ghosts and Geists

Post by skyknight » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:31 pm

Alright, better late than never, huh? I think this is fitting for everything is ep.

While I was at SDCC with my bro, we only had the pass for the first day (Th), and we missed out out on several events. I did attend the Hasbro panel for TF: Prime, GI Joe Renegade, and Capcom panel for Dead Rising 2. My bro and I did see all the toys and plamo on the display floor, man, that's more than an eye full for me. But yeah, I did miss out on Bandai's panel.

At this point, I will take it as a good news for any Gundam series to be licensed for NA and Euro release, but not to have too high expectations. I am willing to accept sub-only anime release, rather than listen to that crappy English dubbing from Warriors series - I have no problems with Gintama being sub-only, as it is fitting for the in-jokes. And fellows, please do buy licensed anime, instead of waiting for it to be pirated on P2P sites.

For a live-action Gundam film, I have no problems with it, but I do agree it should not be based on any released series. It should be a stand-only series, allowing new and different creativity. Guys, would anyone mind if Josh Whedon said he wanted to do a Gundam movie that is not set in the UC universe?

For my questions that were from March, yeah, recap eps can be done better as I said, but I do find it very annoying when you have one within the first 6 eps, instead at Ep. 20 (of 52). But shouldn't producers be very careful with time management? No.2 is quite a tall order for many otakus to answer, but I think I should narrow it down to 4 characters in any setting you want - mecha, sci-fi, comedy... maybe some other time later. No.3 was already answered by the previous ep. that happened after I posted my question, but I do wonder if any of you attend SDCC, DragonCon, or PAX..., since MegaCon is held in FL.

G.i.t.S., as I did mentioned in the previous ep, I only saw the first film release on VHS in the 90's, never watched the later series. And you guys seemed to follow my previous comment on the blurring lines between human and cyborg, in which if the compounds that make up a human and cyborg are almost the same, then what's the fine line to separate one from another? OK, I may ask this on a separate thread, but I hope members can put some input to this.

- If I were to watch the whole G.i.t.S. release (first film, SA, C stories, SAC film) on either DVD/Blu-Ray, where should I start?

M.D. Giest, it is what it is that needs to be flush down the toilet (either the word crap or s**t will work). I actually saw it with my elder cousins, and they did ask should I watch this because of blood and boobs, but they let me finish the film. Boy, was I glad that I have saw Gundam ZZ before this, cuz like Chris said, it could've been the back-breaker for me on anime. Anime fans should list this as the one they should never lay their eyes on for eternal.

As for future anime toilet suggestion, since I haven't listen to the hater ep feat/Gen. Austin and "effin" Robotech: SC, I won't do any suggestion for what anime to be featured. But with SEED Destiny, I do think a roundtable discussion or Skype call-in should be consider.
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