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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:03 am 
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Chris wrote:
TheSuspiciousRedLamp wrote:
For those worrying about DESTINY, worry no more. As bad as parts of it are, as a whole it's not bad enough to qualify for Anime Toilet. For those who like Shadow Chronicles, well, sorry in advance!


I will advise caution about marking shows for the Anime Toilet segment when you haven't watched them all the way through. Linkara of Atop the Fourth Wall has had some trouble with marking comics he hadn't read properly for that, and then discovering they either weren't that bad, or were just too boring to really make fun of (I'd say that an anime example of the latter would be Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross).

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:01 am 
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Hey I'm new to mecha talk  but I wanted to add two cents into the forum. First of all great episode like usual. Totally excited about turn a gundam  coming to america , I am waiting for a preorder realease at this momment.  Great review gsac, personally ghost in the shell is one of the few reasons that got me interested in the whole cyberpunk future. 
Your review about md Geist was gold unlike neo an soul bro I remember how terrible this show was and revisiting was even more interesting. I watched robotech shadow cronicles on Hulu but I completely forgot about it and don't remember if it was terrible or not. I need to watch it again for an educational visit.  A question I need someone to answer. How the hell did the chick with the mess up boobs got into the braaaaain palace. People are dying left to right just to get into the place and this braud walks in without a dust on her. They where robots outside gaurding the place. Sigh

Anyway I have two problem with Chris statement about a the gundam turning to a movie. 
1st. Calling the transformer movie a bunch of robots blowing *ish* up is a bit baised because gundam itself is a giant robot blowing ish up. What does gundam do anything diffrent from transformer beside the obvious ; no light sabers, not seintent, don't transform, and no kid whining about my dad don't even hit me. Everything else gundam is the same as transformers. Slap a cockpit in optimism prime with the keys to ignition and you'll have gundam. At least with transformers they can transorm unlike most gundam 

2nd. The fact that you guys completely dismiss a gundam movie couldnt be possible. It might be a little unrealistic but impossible. Japan is starting to get mainstream in America in terms of anime manga and foreign movies. I went to bestbuy and I was going to pick up casshern the movie and someone sawn me and said it was great. The thing you guys kinda forget is that action movies is a universal langauge and with gundam it will cross all borders with the right story and enough action. Look at iron man, clearly a movie that doesn't appeal to main stream America but with the right director an cast it worked. Gundam could be directed by Steven Spielberg or James Cameron or Even the directer of district 9 could make it work. That's all I have to say but keep in mind ghost in the shell( WTF they ripped off matrix) battleangel( using that blue furry gwap Aka money aka avatar lol)   and cowboy bebop( duuude I know karate)  is being made.  keep up the good work and btw for neo a question for you; which is better 2nd season of 00 or beast machines
Srry if I sound like a troll but I suck at writing      


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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:40 am 
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Vent Noir wrote:
I will advise caution about marking shows for the Anime Toilet segment when you haven't watched them all the way through.


As I already mentioned earlier in this thread, we won't be doing Dragonaut for precisely this reason.

DepthCharge wrote:
The fact that you guys completely dismiss a gundam movie couldnt be possible. It might be a little unrealistic but impossible.


There are lots of things that are possible, but are so improbable that they might as well be impossible. Just because Gundam has robots blowing things up, it doesn't mean that it has an audience in the U.S. for major feature film. Transformers movies work on two levels: appealing to adults like me who watched the original cartoon 25 years ago and still like the series, as well as the kids who are watching the current shows. Ever since Beast Wars started in 1995, there's been a new Transformers show every few years, and there are constantly new toys all the time.

Transformers is so identifiable that every time I show a non-anime fan a Gundam, they say "hey, cool looking Transformer!" I can't count the number of times that this has happened in the 11 years that I've been a Gundam fan. When it comes to making big budget action movies, most of them cost at least $100 million or more, sometimes double that. Hollywood studios are very conservative about throwing that much money down the toilet, so they're going to go with something that has name recognition. Gundam doesn't have that, no matter what you might think. You cite Iron Man as an attempt to justify a potential Gundam movie, but there's no comparison. Iron Man is an American comic that's been around since 1963. Iron Man isn't Batman or Spider-Man, but it has lots of built in fans, unlike Gundam, which has no release history in the U.S. before 1998.

So yes, I will dismiss the possibility of a Gundam movie in the U.S. Western Gundam fans have a tendency to overinflate the popularity of the franchise, but it has to be looked at from a realistic perspective. The possibility of a Gundam movie here is so unrealistic that it might as well be impossible.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:35 am 
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Coming from someone whose username is the man who makes the impossible possible :P
Why is it such a stretch to give an in depth opinion.
Chris likes to seem to crush the hopers and dreamers as of lately though I've noted, wether it's this or the Turn A topic in the news of this episode :P


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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:03 pm 
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I notice there are time when Soul Bro will use what I can only call a "slow dark" Batman voice, that was creepy.

I like this ep a lot, to your take on Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, it takes me back to some of your earlier ep when you would talk about the show. I feel stupid because up until this ep and a few back, I have never hear any one call the show by "Gits:Sac", I would agree with Soul Bro that the show has one of the best warp up eps a show to go out on, it was serious, funny (Batou: Motoko!!!!) that gets me everytime, and made you feel that world was real in what it talked about, which still kind of scares me. I agree with Peter, I have to watch this in the Dub, its hard to keep in the sub as I always feel like I am speed running my old school text book, at least in the english the words can flow over me and its better to take in, plus I have a great respect for Mary Elizabeth McGlynn and Richard Epcar for there preformance.

M. D. Geists, this was not so bad that it made want to swear off anime forever, but it just me that anime is good as its team who made it, case and point, M. D. Geists 2.

To Soul Bro, I like the wall breaker with the flushing sound, to show the feeling of the moment, you don't do it that often; but when you do it is very funny.

Good work, this ep came at a time that I needed a pick me up. Thank you. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Okay I see your point. It must be the soul bro in me to see this happen.


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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:32 pm 
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Taekmkm wrote:

And Gundam is far more confusing than Evangelion when it comes to the "Where do I start" syndrome for new fans. Not even close.


Are you serious? There's Universal Century and Alternative Century, not Universal Century 1.1, 2.0 etc.

I see that the licensing of Turn A has cause an epidemic of Gundam/Mainstream Derangement syndrome.

Also, if James Cameron EVER directed a gundam movie, I'd probably puke.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:07 pm 
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hawk of endymion wrote:

Also, if James Cameron EVER directed a gundam movie, I'd probably puke.


You don't like James Cameron Neo, or do you think he is just overrated?

Oh yeah, Soul Bro, "He's channeling his inner Voldemort" That made laugh so much, FTW!

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Dollow wrote:
hawk of endymion wrote:

Also, if James Cameron EVER directed a gundam movie, I'd probably puke.


You don't like James Cameron Neo, or do you think he is just overrated?

Oh yeah, Soul Bro, "He's channeling his inner Voldemort" That made laugh so much, FTW!


His early stuff is good, but I think he's a little overrated. I was the only person that didn't get suckered in to watch Avatar. I had no desire to watch it then and still don't when it get's re-released. I'm sure the sheep will go in masses later this month.

Like Precious Roy said, SUCKERS!

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:05 pm 
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@neo What if James Cameron do the visual aspect to the movie would you watch it. I know he's overrated and he's a extreme copy cat ie avatar but honestly I think he could make it into b level movie with an a level visual. At least if he rips off a story for gundam there's plenty of material in fanfiction dot com. Lol I'm might sound like a James Pansy but I enjoy his robot designs. The story itself I could care less. If it's not terminater or aliens I could care less what he do. I watch avatar in the hopes of seeing furry sex but I was denied. Lol jk kinda


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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:31 pm 
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Quote:
Are you serious? There's Universal Century and Alternative Century, not Universal Century 1.1, 2.0 etc.


What are you talking about? If a complete outsider asks about Gundam, they would be far more confused about the 10+ Gundam shows and where to start, what belongs to what universe, etc.

Eva has two. The Series->EoE, and Rebuild. If you're honestly suggesting 10+ shows is easier to introduce than 1 show and a movie series, then whatevs.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:58 am 
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Taekmkm wrote:
Quote:
Are you serious? There's Universal Century and Alternative Century, not Universal Century 1.1, 2.0 etc.


What are you talking about? If a complete outsider asks about Gundam, they would be far more confused about the 10+ Gundam shows and where to start, what belongs to what universe, etc.

Eva has two. The Series->EoE, and Rebuild. If you're honestly suggesting 10+ shows is easier to introduce than 1 show and a movie series, then whatevs.


OK, I understand that I have to deal with fanboy dreamer at times.

Here's the deal, the core of Gundam is in essence MSG(universal century). That story has not been changed, only the order of events per the movie trilogy. The alternative century are extra. In contrast the core of Eva has been told in at least three different version, the show, the movies and now the new movies.

I will say this now and will defend this to the end, Eva is not "the greatest anime of all time", it is MSG. Because without MSG(or really Ideon), there's no Eva. At least SUnrise tried to change some aspects of the AC gundam, what's Gainex excuse?

Gundam in its core is a war story, not a story of unrelated judo-christian themes that sound cool.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:05 am 
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DepthCharge wrote:
@neo What if James Cameron do the visual aspect to the movie would you watch it. I know he's overrated and he's a extreme copy cat ie avatar but honestly I think he could make it into b level movie with an a level visual. At least if he rips off a story for gundam there's plenty of material in fanfiction dot com. Lol I'm might sound like a James Pansy but I enjoy his robot designs. The story itself I could care less. If it's not terminater or aliens I could care less what he do. I watch avatar in the hopes of seeing furry sex but I was denied. Lol jk kinda


Here's an idea for James Cameron now, write your own story.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:45 am 
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hawk of endymion wrote:
DepthCharge wrote:
@neo What if James Cameron do the visual aspect to the movie would you watch it. I know he's overrated and he's a extreme copy cat ie avatar but honestly I think he could make it into b level movie with an a level visual. At least if he rips off a story for gundam there's plenty of material in fanfiction dot com. Lol I'm might sound like a James Pansy but I enjoy his robot designs. The story itself I could care less. If it's not terminater or aliens I could care less what he do. I watch avatar in the hopes of seeing furry sex but I was denied. Lol jk kinda


Here's an idea for James Cameron now, write your own story.

I'm asking to much am I. lmao.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:15 am 
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Quote:
OK, I understand that I have to deal with fanboy dreamer at times.

Here's the deal, the core of Gundam is in essence MSG(universal century). That story has not been changed, only the order of events per the movie trilogy. The alternative century are extra. In contrast the core of Eva has been told in at least three different version, the show, the movies and now the new movies.

I will say this now and will defend this to the end, Eva is not "the greatest anime of all time", it is MSG. Because without MSG(or really Ideon), there's no Eva. At least SUnrise tried to change some aspects of the AC gundam, what's Gainex excuse?

Gundam in its core is a war story, not a story of unrelated judo-christian themes that sound cool.


Good job putting words in my mouth.

Where, in my posts, did I ever bring up the quality of the shows?

Please tell me.

Edit: Seriously, bringing up extremes? I can easily call it Psychic espers vs. space nazis. I love Gundam, but it's not to the point I'm heavily biased to attack others just for liking certain shows.

Edit 2: Gainax? Really?


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:33 am 
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hawk of endymion wrote:
Taekmkm wrote:

And Gundam is far more confusing than Evangelion when it comes to the "Where do I start" syndrome for new fans. Not even close.


Are you serious? There's Universal Century and Alternative Century, not Universal Century 1.1, 2.0 etc.


*Face palm* I wish I knew you were joking Neo, but... Seriously? Evangelion 1.0, 2.0, etc are all titles of the Rebuild movies, just like how we have Mobile Suit Gundam I, Mobile Suit Gundam II: Soldiers of Sorrow, and Mobile Suit Gundam III: Encounters in Space.

But yes, I'd agree that Gundam would be far more confusing. It's not just UC and Alternative Century, it's UC and FC, AC, AW, etc etc. There are so many different Gundam series where some one who wants to get into Gundam will go "Okay, so I want to watch Gundam. Which of these series are good to start with?" You see the same thing happen all the time on /m/ with the so many different Kamen Riders series. With all the varying tones, stories, and quality, it's hard to pick the right one to hook you.

hawk of endymion wrote:
In contrast the core of Eva has been told in at least three different version, the show, the movies and now the new movies.


Not even. The original movies are expantions on the TV series ending, not some completely different story. You only have the original and now, over 20 years later, the Rebuild movies. So it's not at all different from the MSG and its movie series, only Rebuild is changing things drastically.

You complain about Eva's rehashed story, but what of Gundam, where every series eventually boils down to "war is bad, buy our toys"?

I'm not trying to argue about which is the 'greatest anime of all time', but seriously Neo your hate on for Eva is ridiculous.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:

Not even. The original movies are expantions on the TV series ending, not some completely different story. You only have the original and now, over 20 years later, the Rebuild movies. So it's not at all different from the MSG and its movie series, only Rebuild is changing things drastically.

You complain about Eva's rehashed story, but what of Gundam, where every series eventually boils down to "war is bad, buy our toys"?

I'm not trying to argue about which is the 'greatest anime of all time', but seriously Neo your hate on for Eva is ridiculous.


I love how if a person's opinion is different than others, that is automatically hate. I guess mentally you are as young as you claim to be.

I now know how Chris feels, having to explain myself over and over.

For the last time, I've never said I hate Eva. I just feel the constant retelling in film and print have diminished the power of the story.

I also like how you contradict yourself, it's so great. As you stated, the Eva movies had to change the story for whatever. The comparison of the MSG is moot, because the core story of MSG never changed. All that changed is the order of a few events and guntank in space. The results of the battles and characters did not, like it has in Eva. Yes, some of the AC gundam have the basic war is bad theme like UC, but in the end they end up being their own story. And let's face it, Gainex is like Sunrise, in it's story in Eva that, "parents suck, buy our toys and every couple of years our blu-rays for the true story of Eva".
Gundam, a thirty year old franchise that has similar story offerings with a large collection of characters and themes.
Eva, a ten year old franchise that multiple retellings of the same characters.

Both profit centers for their respective companies.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Look, I'm not trying to start anything, but if bring up Eva, at least state some correct facts and clarify some things for me.

Quote:
I just feel the constant retelling in film and print have diminished the power of the story.


How is one and a half constant? I'm seriously curious on this. Eva has told its story completed once. Rebuild's -better and much more accurate comparison- would be like Gundam SEED, in that it's a reboot of sorts with very similar beginnings (I.E. Luna II, ugh) but taken in a drastically new direction that you can call it its own story compared to the original.

You can't call EoE a separate entity, just as much as you can't call the Baldios end movie separate, the Ideon end movie, Final Plus for SEED Destiny, or A Wakening for 00. Death and Rebirth is a recap compilation, so counting that is more like counting those Turn A compilations than an actual "retelling."



2nd point: Why do you keep mentioning Gainax? It's Studio Khara, Anno's very own studio. He left Gainax to make his own, like George Lucas did to start his Star Wars Prequels. If you're trying to argue "It's essentially the same thing," then do you ignore Bones Studio when talking about Cowboy Bebop: Knocking on Heaven?

If you want to blame the reboot, blame all the complaints and irks you have about Rebuild and its "rehashing," blame the right people. Gainax does not linger when it comes to projects. They have made FLCL, Diebuster, Gurren Lagann, and the upcoming Panty and Stocking since Eva's wake. If anything, they're more guilty of milking Gurren Lagann ala Parallel Works than they ever did Evangelion animation-wise. Gainax are one of the last studios bringing diversity to an increasingly stale anime market of adaptations of ecchi light novels and sub-par shonen titles.

Point: Blame Anno and Studio Khara for milking Evangelion, not Gainax which has done great work otherwise.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 pm 
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hawk of endymion wrote:
I love how if a person's opinion is different than others, that is automatically hate. I guess mentally you are as young as you claim to be.


Disagreeing doesn't make it hate, sure. However Neo you always groan when Eva is mentioned, you've never said anything nice about it, you're always mocking it, and if I recall you said Asuka is the only good thing to come out of Eva. And then there's how you harsh on Eva for doing things you forgive other series for (Gurren-Lagann had a remake only a year after it finished airing, which is actually worse than what Eva did, but I don't hear you complaining).

Looking at all that, you can't blame others for thinking you hate Eva.

hawk of endymion wrote:
I just feel the constant retelling in film and print have diminished the power of the story.


Again, you keep stressing this point but you're greatly exaggerating. Eva has a TV anime (and its movie conclusion), a manga adaptation, and now remake movies. There are lots of other mangas, but they are all complete AUs with different premises. So no, there are no 'constant' retellings.

But if that 'diminishes' the power of the story, then what about Gundam? It had a TV anime, retelling movies, and then there's Gundam The Origin, which retells the same story with a bunch of changes like how the Eva manga does. And if you wanna go even further, there's Tomino's novel retelling too. So Gundam is no stranger to rehashes of Amuro's story.

And I wasn't contradicting myself, I was pointing out your contradiction. You speak of Eva's story rehashing, and I pointed out how Rebuild isn't just rehashing it, but sending it in a completely new and interesting direction. And like you just said, the MSG movies didn't change that much, which is what you're accusing Eva of doing. So yeah Neo, you don't like how Eva is telling the same story, but it's okay if Gundam is telling the same story?

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
hawk of endymion wrote:
I just feel the constant retelling in film and print have diminished the power of the story.


Again, you keep stressing this point but you're greatly exaggerating. Eva has a TV anime (and its movie conclusion), a manga adaptation, and now remake movies. There are lots of other mangas, but they are all complete AUs with different premises. So no, there are no 'constant' retellings.

Well, to be fair, there was also Death and Rebirth, and then there was the edited-for-TV version called Death(true). And then there was Revival of Evangelion, which edited Death again and combined it with the End of Evangelion. All of them released within one year. Not to mention the Director's Cut of several episodes.

But hey, guys, why all the negativity in this topic? Can't we all just love one another and save the hating for MD Geist? :D

...

(I do want to point out that I actually liked Shadow Chronicles. Then again, I've only seen a couple of episodes of the original Robotech show, so maybe that's why.)

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