Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by hawk of endymion » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:14 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Odello died for our sins.
He did? Then what did Lelouch die for?

Hows Windsor?
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:16 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:Hows Windsor?
Hell if I know. I live in Tecumseh :wink:
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by jabman025 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:45 pm

Hey my topic got selected, and I got a shout out to boot, thanks guys

Anyway, first on the topic I didn't put out there, Escaflowne. I am one of the people who have seen the movie but have not seen the series, and personally I really liked the movie. I thought it had a great plot, iteresting characters, and amazing visuals. Maybe it just seems worse for those who saw the series before. I guess I will have to start digging around to find the series now.

Now for my topic, if I could bring back some characters from the dead I would choose the following.

1. Sleggar Law, he was a great character and personally I thought he was the best bad ass on the federation side. If he lived I doubt much would have changed with Bright's family but it would have been nice to see Sleggar in later episodes and series.

2. Haman Karn, maybe this is just me wanting the Char vs Haman war that we never got to see in ZZ. I understand how Haman would have commited suicide considering what had happened to here life but I would have loved to see her in Char's Counterattack.

3. Schwarz Bruder/ Kyoji, for most of the series I wanted him dead, but when we learn the truth we can't stand the way he goes out. I would much prefer Kyoji sacrificing himself to save his brother, as apposed to forcing his brother to kill him for the good of the planet. Kyoji deserved a better ending after all the hate we laid on him for the first part of the series.
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by hawk of endymion » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:52 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
hawk of endymion wrote:Hows Windsor?
Hell if I know. I live in Tecumseh :wink:

Did the lolis run you out of town?
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:33 pm

If lolis were running at me, I sure as hell wouldn't move!
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Seraphic » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:59 pm

Yay, Escaflowne! Again, Yoko Kanno's music was making the conversation much more epic than it really had any right to be. I really liked how you used "Shadow of Doubt" rolling into the second discussion.

Escaflowne is actually placed as my #1 rated anime series, but I've got a bit of a weird relationship with it. I first watched it on Fox, and thought it looked absolutely obsurd compared to Gundam Wing, which was the only mecha anime I knew at the time. A few years later, I watched the movie, and thought it was pretty good despite the crawling pace. A little while after that, I hunted down a boxset of the series, and I was pretty much in love after that. I honestly rank it over any Gundam series I've seen, but that's because it just does everything extremely well, and it's devoid of any weirdness that can often be found in Gundam. Still, I don't talk about it as much because there's not much technology to the series.

I love all the combat and sword fights in Escaflowne. Absolutely beautiful. And it actually gets more exciting with each successive viewing. I suppose I just have a different appreciation for combat than other people. My god, the parries and counters in the last fight were just insane. (It's all much more intense than all the hit-and-run/clashing battle in Gundam.)

On top of that, I really appreciated Van's growth in the series. It was really great to see someone genuinely develop his skill in a believeable way instead of just being really good for no apparent reason. He really had to work for it, too! The story and characters were all also excellent, but that's been discussed a lot.

Going back on all this, I really don't like the movie in comparison to the series. It kind of just snatches all the visually interesting things about the series and shoves it all into a movie. And Van suddenly has psychic powers, too. :| To me, it really wasn't as interesting as the power of perception. I wonder if he could have used the same power while piloting the Escaflowne. (Which looked absolutely beautiful, by the way.) The movie really killed what I liked about Hitomi. Her personality and purpose was completely flipped. And of course the art was breathtaking, but the facial design of the characters really got to me. I didn't even recognize Millerna was Princess Millerna until someone pointed her out to me! -,-; Still, the movie does pretty decently as a stand-alone.

I've heard that Kawamori originally intended for the project to be another transforming fighter plane show, but it somehow changed into what we've got now. There are still traces of this, seen in the transformation of the Escaflowne. Does anyone have any hard evidence of this? I'd be really interested to know what caused the change of setting. And thank god, too, because I don't think there are too many sword duels when it comes to transforming fighter planes.
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by skyknight » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:50 am

wielder wrote: Speaking of Code Geass...I agree, Euphemia's death is surely something to regret considering its tragic and unexpected nature, for all the mentioned reasons, but in terms of emotional impact I'd say Lelouch's death was equal if not superior to it, even if I do understand the fact that was also quite a fitting end for him. I wouldn't want to see him survive after the ending, all horrible fanfiction aside, though part of me does wish the situation hadn't come to that in the first place.

For that matter, Shirley's death may be a distant third or fourth in that show, but it probably also counts. Even though her character's fate could be seen coming from almost a mile away, it would have been interesting to see her survive and grow out of just being a carefree high school student with a crush.
Will have to disagree on Lulu's death being equal or GREATER than Euhpy's. Remember, Lulu's end was the result of his choices and actions, which C.C. did warn him earlier about having great powers. Euphy never had a choice when the Geass was cast upon her. And the title, Lelouch of the Rebellion, if you are into literature, it should give you a fair warning that Lelouch will meet his end. I remember a quote that goes like this, if ends in failure, its a rebellion; if ends in success, its a revolution.

On Shirley's death, I do agree with you, as I always felt that she was going to be the next victim of Lulu's ambitions; which is a shame, since she is nice girl that was pure-heart and bit naive. I did like the last few eps of S1, when she is re-discovering her crush on Lulu, but then R2 just had to blow things up by doing the hard-restart, which killed off any interesting development - instead we have two eps of her regain her "true" memories and admitting her love for Lulu while dying in his arms.

On to Escaflowne, IIRC there was a complet box set released several years ago, is it hard to find?
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Taekmkm » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:54 am

Available for about 40 bucks on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Escaflowne-Anime- ... 531&sr=8-1

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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by skyknight » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:23 pm

Thanks for the link, I keep hearing the story that Escaflowne was suppose to be longer than 26-eps, but was cut due to poor receptions from mother company as well as lower-than-expected ratings or just simply a budget shortage. Any truth to any of the above?

Also, I keep hearing from other anime fans that Escaflowne is quite depressing, I wonder if they only saw the film-edited version?
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by wielder » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:29 pm

skyknight wrote: Will have to disagree on Lulu's death being equal or GREATER than Euhpy's.
I'm not denying it was relatively predictable too, by reading into those and other elements.

If you really wanted to go in that direction though, then Euphemia's death could be ostensibly deduced by reading into the episode title (Bloodstained Euphy). I think that wasn't exactly a good sign. You should also remember that Lelouch's initial intentions were to sabotage her whole plan, so in this case the unexpected factor was that he actually ended up agreeing with her, but in the end he still screwed things up and then decided to kill his sister anyway. Lelouch's fate was mainly the result of his own choices, but that just adds to the tragedy of his own life.

And well, what else do you want me to say? It's true that Lelouch's death was always a possibility, but emotional impact is entirely subjective.
Also, I keep hearing from other anime fans that Escaflowne is quite depressing, I wonder if they only saw the film-edited version?
From what I can understand, without actually watching the series...I'd think the fact Hitomi decided to go back to her own world is what would make it depressing for some, especially shippers, so I imagine they wanted her to stay with the man she loved. This part of the ending was briefly mentioned on the podcast.
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Wellman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Odello died for our sins.
No, he died for sake of no lighter sequel or spin off being made down the line.

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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:37 pm

Wellman wrote: No, he died for sake of no lighter sequel or spin off being made down the line.
*Looks at G Gundam* ... Then he died for nothing!
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Wellman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:26 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Wellman wrote: No, he died for sake of no lighter sequel or spin off being made down the line.
*Looks at G Gundam* ... Then he died for nothing!
:lol:

You know, I mean no UC sequel or spinoff of V like there was of Z but that was a good one, sir.

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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by Vent Noir » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:36 pm

Okay, I'm back from my trip. Good to find more Gundamn! to listen to.

It's been a while since I've watched Escaflowne, but I remember that I liked it. I should get around to picking up the boxset.

Regrettable deaths in anime... you named most of the ones I had in mind, although I should mention Fafner (and leave it at that).

Also, Soundwave in Transformers: Headmasters, just for the fact that we got to see Galvatron (who I'd previously thought of as a one-dimensional villain) seeming genuinely upset when he died. Oh, and while we're on Transformers, Optimus Prime in the movie, of course, so we wouldn't have needed to have Rodimus as leader.

Oh, and going back to last episode, Transformers: The Movie had one of the great amusing deaths, too:

"Coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy."
"Megatron? Is that you?"
"Here's a hint!" (BLAM!)

Since Rayearth got a mention, Eagle Vision is another regrettable death.

But I really have to mention some deaths from a show that was not a mecha or sci-fi show, but were the most memorable ones in anime, and still make me tear up whenever I watch them: The Sailor Senshi in the first season finale of Sailor Moon. I think Jet Wolf's page articulated it best:

I knew it was coming -- I had read the spoilers ahead of time. And I knew that the Senshi would come back in the end. Yet knowledge of both of these events did nothing to lessen its impact.
From Mako turning back and seeing a battered "Motoki" to a wish that her Princess remain happy ...
From Ami's lonely and unselfish sacrifice to the final use of her computer ...
From Minako's leap to save Sailor Moon to a vengeful, shattering "Crescent Beam!" ...
From Rei's final admittance of what is in her heart to a wish that she had listened to Usagi after all ...
And finally, to Usagi's realization that even death cannot separate her from those she loves as she runs across the snow, determined to bring down the monster that caused all this pain ... It doesn't get any better than this.
It is nothing short of brilliant.
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Re: Ep. 037 - An Englishman in King Arthur's Court

Post by mobiusdiablo » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:25 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:
Destiny_Gundam wrote:Odello died for our sins.
He did? Then what did Lelouch die for?
Lelouch died for the sake of all other anime companies that want to attempt to produce mecha anime. Think about it; if Code Geass became a huge franchise like Gundam, that would practically kill any hope of other companies even trying to enter the real robot genre.

That, and he was THE magnificent bastard of the decade.
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