Ep. 028 - Marky Mark & The 30 Bunch!

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Areku
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Post by Areku » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:30 pm

I enjoyed Eva for what it was. I wouldn't say it was great, but it entertained me the one time I watched it. I wouldn't go so far as saying it was revolutionary, but it definitely started (or at least, was one of the major forerunners of) a trend towards "darker", conspiracy-laden plots. Subjectivity aside, this status of establishing a trend (which many see as different enough to be called it's own genre) makes it important, and this can't really be argued. After all, a production doesn't really need to introduce something new to shake up an industry. It just needs to use old things in new ways, and from an objective standpoint, Eva definitely did this.
hawk of endymion wrote:Not being snarky at all, just stating the facts.
Eh, I wouldn't be so sure.
hawk of endymion wrote:And I would have disagree that Eva was a complete new approach to robot anime and that the concepts expressed in it are still fresh.
This is fine, no snark here.
hawk of endymion wrote:But, I'm sure you'll have some flim flam retort, can't wait.
You gotta admit, this is classic snark; a 50/50 blend of sarcasm and irreverence. :razz:

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Post by Chris » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:49 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:I guess it comes down to an age difference. You have the older generation of anime fans like Chris and Neo who had plenty of titles under their belt and then you have the younger generation fans like me who had never seen anything like Eva before.
I really wish you would stop using this flimsy excuse of youthful ignorance to defend everything. Just because you haven't seen as much doesn't mean something newer is "revolutionary." Your argument makes no sense because as you get older, you see more things and your opinions have to change. When I was 5, I thought Transformers was the best thing ever. When I was 18, I thought Eva was amazing. But as time progresses I've seen lots more things and my understanding has grown, thus has my opinion on certain shows. You're a grown man now, so you can't keep hiding behind these opinions of "I saw this when I was 14 and liked it!"
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Post by hawk of endymion » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:26 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:I guess it comes down to an age difference. You have the older generation of anime fans like Chris and Neo who had plenty of titles under their belt and then you have the younger generation fans like me who had never seen anything like Eva before.
News Flash Here, Peter, I know you're in college, so your excuse of being younger doesn't fly.

Once again, for the upteenth time, I like Eva as a show. I just believe the claims of being, "revloutionary", "greatest of all time" are a little unfounded. It seems with most fans of Eva is that if you do not agree with these claims, you either don't know what's good or you didn't "get" Eva. Also, the constant revisions of Eva are making it lose its luster.

Also, shows like Astro Boy, Mazinger, First Gundam, those are revolutionary. Mixing various references to eastern and western religion with no link, doesn't. Those references are just plot gimmicks.
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Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:15 pm

Chris wrote:You're a grown man now, so you can't keep hiding behind these opinions of "I saw this when I was 14 and liked it!"
I never said that. I've said that I rewatch Eva often. So I have grown, accumulated experience, and watched many other shows, but Eva is still that damn good every time I watch it. So I guess there's something I'm not 'getting'.

No, I don't think Eva is the best anime ever. I've said many times that that title belongs to Gunbuster. But I do recognise Eva's impact on the anime scene. Can you imagine a world without Eva? The R1 industry probably wouldn't be as successful, and great animes like RahXephon and Fafner would have never been made. The fact that people still remember Evangelion, that it still has a huge, devoted fanbase even after so many years shows just how much it stands out from the crowd. It changed the way people thought of anime. In that sense, it is revolutionary.
hawk of endymion wrote:Once again, for the upteenth time, I like Eva as a show.
Forgive me for being skeptical, but all your previous comments seem to contradict this. If you like it, why do you keep speaking ill of it?
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Post by T.V. » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:24 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:Once again, for the upteenth time, I like Eva as a show. I just believe the claims of being, "revloutionary", "greatest of all time" are a little unfounded. It seems with most fans of Eva is that if you do not agree with these claims, you either don't know what's good or you didn't "get" Eva. Also, the constant revisions of Eva are making it lose its luster.

Also, shows like Astro Boy, Mazinger, First Gundam, those are revolutionary. Mixing various references to eastern and western religion with no link, doesn't. Those references are just plot gimmicks.
Well, I'm sorry Neo but you're being subjective regarding Eva's status as well.

For Evangelion, or any other 'groundbraking' piece of entertainment, it's save to say it is a landmark, when it has made a definite impact on (a part of) society, becoming part of pop culture.
Wether it's good or not is subject of (heated) debate and personal taste, but quality notwithstanding, Evangelion has made a name for itself.
Discussing a show's importance or status has less to do with taste or quality, which are difficult to measure quantitatively, but more with popularity and (apparent) novelty.

I'm not really a fan of Evangelion, but I can see that it had -and still has- a huge following.
So, like 60's Batman, First Gundam, Transformers G1, Macross, 80's Knightrider, Pokemon (1995?) and Cowboy Bebop, it garnered a huge following offering something that at least brought alot of attention to it.

D_G, you may be better off by being more clear about putting aside your own view when discussing a show's merits. Personal taste =/= impact on society.
I like to hear what you like and why you like it, but at the same time it's good to hear what it is that made it part of pop culture or not.

Speaking for myself, I reckon a show is genre defining, when it has been very popular and is being frequently copied, homaged or having inspired other works.
In that sense Evangelion ranks as a high as the original Macross and perhaps even Gundam.

Relatively new to Evangelion was that the 'goodguy' organisation wasn't really good, and that they have essentially brought, or are bringing, doom upon themselves.
"Playing God turned wrong," is what I would call it.
Another novelty was that the EVAs were more like 'tamed' monsters than mechanical robots, and more fearsome than awesome.
A third novelty is the deconstruction of a character's psyche, in this case whiny Shinji.

I didn't find Evangelion a particularly good show, since to me it became unthreaded more and more towards the end, without having a satisfying conclusion.
That may have been the intent, or perhaps just accidental brought about by circumstance, but it didn't make for a really entertaining show.
I'd classify it more as a "could-have-been" that fell apart, than a wellmade thought provoking show, but that's just my own view.

And apparently there's a large crowd of people who thought or think otherwise and have become (staunch) fans of it.

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Post by hawk of endymion » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:47 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
hawk of endymion wrote:uot;]Once again, for the upteenth time, I like Eva as a show.
Forgive me for being skeptical, but all your previous comments seem to contradict this. If you like it, why do you keep speaking ill of it?
So, if I'm critical or don't have the opinions as others, I'm being contradictary? Do you actually listen to our reviews of shows? I've been as critical with shows that I love as I've have with Eva. Once again, my two issues with Eva is "it is not the greatest of all time" and it's constant reconns.

I do acknowledge its place in anime/mecha history, but I do not think its anymore groundbreaking or revolutionary than other shows.
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Post by Chris » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:44 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:I never said that. I've said that I rewatch Eva often. So I have grown, accumulated experience, and watched many other shows, but Eva is still that damn good every time I watch it. So I guess there's something I'm not 'getting'.
What you're not "getting" is exactly what I said: whether it's G-Saviour, Eva, or something else, you keep using age as an excuse to explain why you like something that older people don't. That's a completely nonsensical argument, because age shouldn't even be an issue. Even though I'm like 6 years older than you, you've seen just as many (if not more) anime than I have. But you keep bringing up age as if that has some bearing on anything, which it doesn't.
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Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:04 pm

Chris wrote:What you're not "getting" is exactly what I said: whether it's G-Saviour, Eva, or something else, you keep using age as an excuse to explain why you like something that older people don't. That's a completely nonsensical argument, because age shouldn't even be an issue. Even though I'm like 6 years older than you, you've seen just as many (if not more) anime than I have. But you keep bringing up age as if that has some bearing on anything, which it doesn't.
What I refered to by 'not getting' is the reason why Eva isn't as good as I think it is.

Why keep bringing up age? Because it's the most obvious difference between us. Six years is a long time, and you guys have more experience, knowledge, refined tastes, etc compared to me. So when I'm wrong about something because you know something I don't, or can see things that I don't, my first thought is obviously "It's because they're older and wiser than I am." Saying "It's because I have horrible taste" doesn't do much for my self-esteem.

So, if I have seen more anime than you, and yet I still think Eva is better than 90% of them, what does that mean?
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Post by ShadowCell » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:05 pm

If your self esteem is so fragile that it can be damaged by other people's taste in anime not matching up with your own, then you have bigger problems to worry about.

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Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:46 am

ShadowCell wrote:If your self esteem is so fragile that it can be damaged by other people's taste in anime not matching up with your own, then you have bigger problems to worry about.
Not everyone, just the people I respect and admire. My lackluster relationship with my father and older brother causes me to seek older male approval. But I'm sure nobody cares about stuff like that, so I'll just shut up already.
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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:02 am

And this is why talking about Eva will make great radio.

Can't wait to talk about it on the show. ^_^

Probably in 2015. ~_~

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Post by AceWhatever » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:47 am

T.V. wrote: Relatively new to Evangelion was that the 'goodguy' organisation wasn't really good, and that they have essentially brought, or are bringing, doom upon themselves.
"Playing God turned wrong," is what I would call it.
Another novelty was that the EVAs were more like 'tamed' monsters than mechanical robots, and more fearsome than awesome.
A third novelty is the deconstruction of a character's psyche, in this case whiny Shinji.
Wouldn't the soon-to-be Titans from 0083 or Ulube from G Gundam predate SEELE? I'm sure someone could find other examples predating NGE for your first and second point.

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Post by thanatos » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:58 pm

Soul Bro Ryu wrote:And this is why talking about Eva will make great radio.

Can't wait to talk about it on the show. ^_^

Probably in 2015. ~_~
Wait until Neo and Chris are out of the country, or perhaps on the other side of the country, then send out a call for level-headed listeners to phone in. That's the only way I can ever see the Eva Mecha Spotlight segment being made.

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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:26 pm

thanatos wrote: Wait until Neo and Chris are out of the country, or perhaps on the other side of the country, then send out a call for level-headed listeners to phone in. That's the only way I can ever see the Eva Mecha Spotlight segment being made.
You got a deal, man! It'll be the ultimate showkiller. It may kill Neo just to listen to it ^_^
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Post by Momaru » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:43 pm

Oh noes! Soul Bro takes over Gundamn! Surely that would be an awesome show or a complete disaster. I am holding out hope for the former.
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Post by Kavik Ryx » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:50 pm

It would be awesome.

If there is one thing that Evangelion most likely did that was revolutionary, or at least I think, was to mess with the audience in the cruelest sense possible. Anno gave everyone something with a million questions and no answers, and the very reactions of the fans is priceless. Me being a fan myself, have fallen for this numerous times.

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Post by hawk of endymion » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:10 am

Soul Bro Ryu wrote:And this is why talking about Eva will make great radio.

Can't wait to talk about it on the show. ^_^

Probably in 2015. ~_~

Back to the fight! Box!
Not really, because the basis of this arguement is not Eva. It is how rabid fanboyism is destroying anime.

To be honest, there not much more that we can say about. It's pretty stated our positions and in realty there isn't much request for it.
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Post by Kavik Ryx » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:57 am

Out of curiosity, I watched G Savior a couple nights ago, and I will say this. While not terrible or horrible in the sense that MD Geist or the last 30 minutes of LOTR, it was absolutely lame. The movie failed in almost every aspect to capture the spirit of Gundam, let alone the Universal Century. The technology setback was a real annoyance, the Mobile Suits were merely incidental, and the factions were a little too clear cut without any factors to complicate things. I will admit that it was entertaining by B movie standards, and could have been good given a better script and whatnot, but yeah, I can barely consider it Gundam, because if you take out those minimal references, it doesn't even feel like the same thing.

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Post by hawk of endymion » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 pm

That was the whole point of our G-Savior roundup. While its not the worst movie ever made, its place in Gundam lore is dubious.
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Post by Kavik Ryx » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:17 pm

Well I had to see it to believe it.

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