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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Loved the show, as always.

I've never seen X but have read some things about it and you guys seem to be with the general concencus that it is a good watch.

I was also loving the 'jihad' on internet fanboyism. I couldn't be more with you all in this matter and have always actively questioned what people have said when they rant and complain about movies/bands/anime.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Good Stuff Gundamn Crew, and quick release too.

I haven't watched all of Turn A, but I'll give it a shot sometime before 2009 ends. And kudos to your jihad declaration. A lot of that stuff annoys me, especially episode bashing, when in a series, each episode is to contribute to the overall storyline, something one won't see until near the end of a series. Patience is a virtue these trolls need to learn, among other things.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Thanks to all of you guys for a great podcasting.

Good timing for me, as I finished the entire Turn-A Gundam series just this week, after watching it sparingly from last fall until now. And YES, it is one of the best Gundam series, but again I wouldn't recommend it to Gundam virgins.

But how all of you think if Bandai North America went with Gundam X and Turn-A Gundam right after Gundam Wing, instead of MS Gundam; would Gundam be able to keep its fans around?

I do love most of the characters in Turn-A, as Loran and Diana are most interesting couple in Gundam universe (anyone dare to challenge that?), I did love Diana's journey of experiencing life from both sides of Earthlings and Moonrace. This is one of the few Gundams to have strong female characters, and not all of them are MS pilots.

I was able to browse through a Turn-A Gundam illustration book, though I don't know if it is an "official" one; one part that did caught my attention was the early concept designs for the main characters. I didn't see any "Lora," but I saw Loran as a Caucasian boy, and Kihel with brunette hair instead of blond.

While there wasn't much large-scale battles in T-A, plenty much of them were tense, such as Loran protecting Diana disguise as Kihel from Corwin, the confrontation at the relay-station in space where both sides won't try to start a fight. And a sad part is at the end, where the battle has turned into a conflict between the Moonraces (spaceships and MS going against each other), no longer the duality between Moonrace and Earthlings.

I do have a question for all if you could answer, what happened to Cancer and Muron, I didn't see them in later eps and in the ending?

Also, for JP Voice actors fans T-A Gundam feature VA's that would make it big later, Jun Fukuyama (Lulu!) was the voice of Keith, the baker and friend of Loran; Romi Paku (Ed from FMA, Regene from G 00) was the voice of Loran; and Fumiko Orikasa (Rukira from Bleach, Sheryl of CG) voiced Dona, childhood friend of Loran.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:05 am 
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Another great episode guys.

Turn A has been my favorite series so when Chris said the first episode put him off of the series, my brow furrowed. For about a year, the first episode was all I had of the show and I rewatched it constantly. Once I downloaded some of the music (Moon is possibly the best piece of music I have ever heard) I realized that I had to see it so I ordered the awful HK dvds. As painful as they are to watch, I've actually watched them twice, hoping the second time might let me enjoy the show more and not try to decode the subtitles.

The great thing about Turn A is how many questions that beg to be asked. The origins of all the mobile suits in the Mountain Cycle, the fate of the colonies and the full extent of the Turn A's power invite the imagination. On a side note, you didn't mention the novels/manga. Have either been translated by anyone, official or not?
I'm suprised by Chris's analogy of Turn A to the Israel-Palestine conflict. I thought Gundamn was a politics-free zone.
Btw, Dianna's last name is Soleil, the french word for "sun" and pronounced "so-lay". Sorry, but the butchering of elegant French by Americans is one of my pet peeves.

Your discussion of fanboyism poisoning the culture was right on the money. I'm glad I didn't get into anime culture until recently, having been an anime fan since GW aired back when I was 13. I'm surprised that you didn't mention the new Cowboy Bebop movie in your talk. There has been a ton of baseless criticism about it (some even found in the thread about it in the General Discussion section). There have been no trailers or even concept art for this movie but people are already dismissing it since they don't like Keanu Reeves. Frankly, it's pathetic.

Soul Bro's apology made me think that he could have a collection of "Soul Bro's Women". They would be females who embody the characteristics of Emma Sheen, who apparently is Soul Bro's favorite female Gundam character.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:56 pm 
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Ok, this one is a reply to the second part of the podcasting.

Well everyone is going to have an opinion and going to criticize on something. But the good question is when is the appropriate time to do so? If its at the earliest stages, it will be pointless, the most you can do is wish for a good production team: good scriptwriters, animators, and a solid director. With the Gundam universe, I know how rabid fans can be, even when I look at JP fan blogs for Gunpla there's harsh criticism for missing some details. But fans shouldn't dictate the direction of a series, as that will destroy all originality: Turn-A wouldn't come out, and we'll probably be stuck with endless Newtypes battles...

When a series has ended, I would say its fair game to review and compare, to see how much of great work was done. You could compare to other works of similar genre or the production team's previous works, to determine if it was a great original or a best of the genre. I don't like to say this, but most of us like to give crap to each other, not just anime, but with sports, videogaming, and socializing. Is it a tragedy of our human nature?

Well, I'm also aware of the latest Code Geass rumors, as ANN reported it, and some anime blog were pondering about it as well. My best hope is that the whole production team watched through the entire series from S1 to R2 to see how many flaws were there, and if some parts needed serious changes. I wouldn't mind an alternative route/another story, but a sequel is not needed.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:50 pm 
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As I've said before, I was one of the people who dismissed Turn A as not being a Gundam series solely based on the mech designs. Though I did always think the Turn X looked cool.

Anyways, after looking at Chris's reviews, I began to wonder if it wasn't a bad series after all. And for the sake of saying I've seen every Gundam series ever, I watched it. It was during one of the earlier eps when Loran got the Gundam Hammers and started twirling them around, when I went "This is awesome!"

So yeah.

The Turn X was still the greatest part of the show.

I always had a problem with the ending though. I don't think Loran should have ended up with Dianna. I don't think their relationship was developed too well outside of Loran being a Dianna fanboy. I was digging them together when Loran thought she was Kheil, but once he found out the truth he went back to being subserviant.

I have to disagree that it's the happiest Tomino Gundam ending too. I think that title belongs to Double Zeta.


The biggest problem I seem to be having with fans recently is in regards to fanservice. It seems people are trying way too hard to be on the moral high ground, as if to say "Any show with fanservice is garbage and totally benieth me." They think condeming such things makes them seem superior to everyone else.

Well, for some shows like Strike Witches, where the fanservice is predominant, that's understandable to a degree. But when some people go "Oh look, this show has moe character designs. It's going to be crap!" is what I can't stand. It's like writing off Gundam 00 as a trashy shonen-ai show just because Yun Kouga does the character designs.

Fanservice is an integral part of anime anyways. It's been around since the very beginning. Just look at the random nude scenes in First Gundam. I just think saying "I'm a huge anime fan, but I'll never associate myself with those trash shows that have fan service in them" is like saying "I'm a huge sports fan, but I hate sports that involve physical activity."

Anyways, I find it amusing how you guys have this segment where you critisize people for hating something because it didn't turn out the way they wanted it to...

... and next time we're covering G-Saviour. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Anyways, I find it amusing how you guys have this segment where you critisize people for hating something because it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to...

... and next time we're covering G-Saviour. :wink:


I thought about that, but by the same token, I didn't walk into G-Saviour with a list of expectations, other than it not suck. All the bitching I do in the segment results from that, not expectations about what it should've done.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Chris wrote:
I didn't walk into G-Saviour with a list of expectations


Well, everyone has that subconcious list of expectations for everything. You probably had an idea of what an UC installment of Gundam should be like, and G-Saviour obviously didn't live up to that.

But more of this talk when the next ep is released.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
I always had a problem with the ending though. I don't think Loran should have ended up with Dianna. I don't think their relationship was developed too well outside of Loran being a Dianna fanboy. I was digging them together when Loran thought she was Kheil, but once he found out the truth he went back to being subserviant.


Dianna and Loran may not have had much of a relationship, but I don't think Dianna stayed on earth because she loved Loran. She stayed because she was tired of being queen and wanted to live out the rest of her life in peace. I suppose Loran, a guy who would wait on her 24/7, was as good a choice as any.

On another note, you guys mentioned that Turn A was the only show with only one Gundam. Since the use of the label "Gundam" in this show consists of the insane raving of a demented lunatic, and Gym's saying that the Turn A and Turn X are "brothers", why would the Turn X not be considered a Gundam as well? (sorry if this point has already been discussed elsewhere)


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:39 pm 
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thanatos wrote:
On another note, you guys mentioned that Turn A was the only show with only one Gundam. Since the use of the label "Gundam" in this show consists of the insane raving of a demented lunatic, and Gym's saying that the Turn A and Turn X are "brothers", why would the Turn X not be considered a Gundam as well? (sorry if this point has already been discussed elsewhere)


What I said was that Turn A was the only show other than the original to have only one Gundam. The Turn X isn't considered a Gundam because Bandai doesn't call it one.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Enjoyed the ep guys, my thoughts on Turn A is that it is a well presented character orientated show that Tomino and all the other staff got the tone and feel of every arc right. But I didn't know that the turn A was designed by someone outside of Japan.

My thoughts on trollers is that they have a narrow mind view on how things should be and if it doesn't match there views it is undoubtedly wrong. And the worst thing is that it can ruin the experience for people.

but on another note I like to say from the news that I actually own and built a 1/72 scale VF-25-F which I bought at the London Expo.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:24 am 
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Demon Lord of L5 wrote:
My thoughts on trollers is that they have a narrow mind view on how things should be and if it doesn't match there views it is undoubtedly wrong. And the worst thing is that it can ruin the experience for people.


Just some general thoughts: Trollers and haters are one thing, but what about people who come in genuinely interested and/or give things a fair shot, then express a rational opinion of disappointment, and subsequently get chastised in return?

...I think it's just about impossible for someone not to have some expectations coming into a show. The creators themselves broadcast expectations when they put a franchise name like "Gundam" on a product. If the creators wanted viewers to have no expectations, they would just drop the franchise name and start something totally new.

And, given the essentially negative comments toward G-Saviour thus far--deserved or not--it shows that everyone has some kind of expectations when it comes to Gundam. Does that disappointment automatically make one a troll or hate-spreader, though? I'd say not. And I'm concerned the two groups are getting shoved under one definition.

Last note: I don't know if I buy into the notion going around that episodes can't be reviewed in one's mind until one has seen an entire show. It may be true that later episodes bring things into focus, but getting there is half the fun, and so episodes should provide engaging build up. For me, a show shouldn't depend on one lump sum "gotcha!" conclusion. Does that mean every episode has to be spot on or jaw-dropping? No. But the limited time of an episode should be used for maximum effect, providing more rewards to a series than just its climatic moments.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:36 am 
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LightningCount wrote:
Last note: I don't know if I buy into the notion going around that episodes can't be reviewed in one's mind until one has seen an entire show. It may be true that later episodes bring things into focus, but getting there is half the fun, and so episodes should provide engaging build up. For me, a show shouldn't depend on one lump sum "gotcha!" conclusion. Does that mean every episode has to be spot on or jaw-dropping? No. But the limited time of an episode should be used for maximum effect, providing more rewards to a series than just its climatic moments.


I'll disagree and say that you really cannot give a true concise review from a segment or fragment of a series.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:45 am 
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Personally I think this whole Seiji Mizushima fiasco is getting blown out of proportion throughout the internet. If he didn't crack under the FMA hate then he won't crack now, angry Gundamtards be damned.

I agree that the times are changing and the industry is leaning towards attracting the current generation fans, but I reserve the right to be slightly annoyed by trend's such as the increased extremity with which the Macross franchise panders to moe/loli fans with silly things like Ranka's moving hair or Klan's miclone-induced genetic deficiency. Of course it's not to the point where I write off the entire work.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:40 pm 
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LightningCount wrote:
Just some general thoughts: Trollers and haters are one thing, but what about people who come in genuinely interested and/or give things a fair shot, then express a rational opinion of disappointment, and subsequently get chastised in return?

...I think it's just about impossible for someone not to have some expectations coming into a show. The creators themselves broadcast expectations when they put a franchise name like "Gundam" on a product. If the creators wanted viewers to have no expectations, they would just drop the franchise name and start something totally new.

And, given the essentially negative comments toward G-Saviour thus far--deserved or not--it shows that everyone has some kind of expectations when it comes to Gundam. Does that disappointment automatically make one a troll or hate-spreader, though? I'd say not. And I'm concerned the two groups are getting shoved under one definition.

Last note: I don't know if I buy into the notion going around that episodes can't be reviewed in one's mind until one has seen an entire show. It may be true that later episodes bring things into focus, but getting there is half the fun, and so episodes should provide engaging build up. For me, a show shouldn't depend on one lump sum "gotcha!" conclusion. Does that mean every episode has to be spot on or jaw-dropping? No. But the limited time of an episode should be used for maximum effect, providing more rewards to a series than just its climatic moments.


There's nothing wrong with having expectations when watching something. Everyone does. For me, my expectation is that something not suck and be enjoyable. But the point I was trying to make is that in this hyper critical age where people are watching something minutes after it airs in Japan, we're seeing a whole boatload of complaints from people because they expected 20 things to happen in that episode, and only a few did, or none at all. And because all those things they wanted to happen didn't, it sucked.

I've seen things and have been disappointed about them, and I'll definitely criticize them (as you'll hear in the G-Saviour segment). But what separates us from trolls is we don't walk into it already expecting to hate the series. A lot of recent shows like 00, Frontier, Code Geass and Gurren-Lagann already had a bunch of people hating the shows before they ever aired one episode. There's nothing wrong with criticizing episodes as they air - heck, it's what I do on MAHQ. But when I review a show, I'm listing legitimate complaints I have about things that bothered me, not a whole list of things I was looking to hate beforehand. To hear it from some people, every episode of 00 season 2 is worse than the last - but these people aren't really disappointed, as Mizushima said, they're hating because its en vogue to hate something new/popular.

In some respects you can't judge every aspect of a show until it's over. When DESTINY started, I thought it was going to be way better than SEED. You can see from my reviews how wrong I was. Even then, I didn't judge the series as a whole until it was over. You can't say the whole of a series sucks based on a few episodes, and of course on the flip side you can't say it's the best thing ever based on just a few episodes.

Wow, that was long....

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Anyways, I find it amusing how you guys have this segment where you critisize people for hating something because it didn't turn out the way they wanted it to...

... and next time we're covering G-Saviour. :wink:


There's an awful lot of 'mending the damage' done by internet trolls and fanatics on Gundamn!, like saying 'hey, try out G Gundam even if a million people tell you it's not real Gundam' or 'Gundam Wing isn't the worst series of all time, despite the ridiculous fans'. All of the hosts try to re-watch whatever they are going to be talking about before they record the show, so you know at least they have given it a second chance. I know hardcore Gundam fans that won't even watch or discuss SEED and Destiny.

If Chris dislikes something to the level that I'm hearing in that preview then it's probably terrible, regardless of what his notions of a good Gundam series are. I mean, he did watch it after all, and this past episode was criticizing people that don't even give things a chance.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:45 pm 
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chaosmeika wrote:
I'll disagree and say that you really cannot give a true concise review from a segment or fragment of a series.


I've gotta disagree with you there. A person certainly can watch only part of a show and then be able to criticize it. Of course, the amount the person has to watch varies according to the show. I'd say that if you've seen 20-25% of the episodes, you have seen enough to pass judgement on some aspects of it (style, pacing, animation).


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:06 am 
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I carried the torch on the idea of internet trolling and hyper criticism a while back, more or less saying that people are going to want to sit up and pay attention because this is an issue that is going to become important soon enough and eventually that people are going to start seeing the patterns in how certain blogs and the like are "reviewing" their anime. Looks like it's finally come to pass and speaking of passing, the torch has shifted out of my hands quite smoothly. I love it when a plan come together.

For old times sake though, yes unfortunately some people do deal in absolutes and their idea of what an anime should be is often predefined not by what it presents itself as, but what they themselves believe it should be. I also came across a lot of couch directors in 2007 who seemed to think that they had it all figured out as far as anime writing, pacing and direction goes, and that somehow the actual director of the show they were criticizing at any given time was some big idiot who had no idea what they were doing. Somehow I highly doubt that blogger x sitting comfortably on his couch or computer chair has more of an idea about the proper way of creating an anime then a person with actual hands on experience, but meh, logic is at a premium these days.

Hopefully this trend is drawing to a close though.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:49 am 
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One thing, though, on the subject of trolling...

Can we keep the definition of "Troll" to "Someone who deliberately sets out to annoy people"? I don't think people with genuine complaints (misguided though they may be) are trolls.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Vent Noir wrote:
One thing, though, on the subject of trolling...

Can we keep the definition of "Troll" to "Someone who deliberately sets out to annoy people"? I don't think people with genuine complaints (misguided though they may be) are trolls.


But that's what we were addressing, complaints based on misinformation and the constant use of the term "the director is trolling is us", due to the story not going the way fans want it to.

BTW, Destiny Gundam, our criticisms of G-Savior have nothing to do with trolling in anyway. We have been fair with every Gundam roundup, especailly when it comes to the unpopular series (like Double Zeta).

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