Ep. 026 - Milquetoast Buffet

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skyknight
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Post by skyknight » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:41 pm

Just finished listening to this podcast after working most of last week.

Gundam 00 S2: it did what CG: R2 failed to do, continue the story; R2 did a HARD restart to begin, which took out all the suspense from Season 1. And it failed to flesh out S1 characters while adding a bunch of new ones, so far 00 S2 hasn't done that. Can't wait to see how 00 S2 ends, and believe me, I will buy the entire 00 on Blu-Ray if it ever comes to the US!

GW: Endless Waltz: a good way to end the Wing series, we get the backgrounds of each pilot, and we see each pilot dealing with the new world in their own way (Wufei joining the opposite side, Heero and Duo doing the best as the heroic duo!). I would definitely recommend the movie version over the 3-pt OVA, as the story transition was better (gotta love the movie ver. in-space W-Zero retrieval), and I loved Last Impression more than White Reflection.

SoulBro's my men: when did we reach that stage!?

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Post by Ohmygodiamonfire » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:26 pm

My choices for Soul Bro's men:
Gundam X: Prince Willis (How did you guys forget him?)
Big O: Beck and his crew.
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Post by ReGZeta » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:16 am

I dunno if anyone has mentioned a MyMan! for Patlabor.

Chief Shige Shiba
The one episode that he actually has a main role in turns out to be a dream from a concussion. I wanted CLAT to be real, dammit!

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Post by hawk of endymion » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:15 pm

Ohmygodiamonfire wrote:My choices for Soul Bro's men:
Gundam X: Prince Willis (How did you guys forget him?)
Big O: Beck and his crew.
I don't know about Beck and crew, they were more like loser villians than milktoast loser.

And who was Prince Willis again?
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Chris
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Post by Chris » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:19 pm

ReGZeta wrote:I dunno if anyone has mentioned a MyMan! for Patlabor.

Chief Shige Shiba
The one episode that he actually has a main role in turns out to be a dream from a concussion. I wanted CLAT to be real, dammit!
No, Shige is too awesome to be Soul Bro's man. It has to be Shinshi, even though he can be quite scary when he's pushed over the edge.
"What did catch my eye, however, was a podcast named Gundamn!. At first I thought it was a podcast about firearms and [rednecks] discussing their collection, but after looking at the episode titles I was sold." - Xhavalor

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Post by LightningCount » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:42 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:And who was Prince Willis again?
Prince Willis Aramis of Estard. He was the weak prince of the country next to Northernbell and Gastar, who relied on his general and adviser to keep his country safe against the New Federation until the Freeden arrives and Garrod Ran toughens him up a little.

Anyways, on to *ENDLESS WALTZ*...

OVA vs. Movie:
One thing I want to point out about the OVA vs. the Movie is the placement of music. The Movie version made some decisions that hurt certain scenes. For example, the jazzy action song that plays during Duo and Heero trying to fly through the MM army's colony defenses was replaced with something far less dramatic, damaging the intensity of that scene.

Other curious notes: The OVA shows a still frame of Tallgeese III in harsh lighting in one of its Next Episode previews that never appears anywhere else. Also, the redesigned Maganac Corps MS were designed in detail, but never used except in a still frame in the epilogue if I recall right.

I'm torn on the OVA vs. Movie. The OVA's pacing is much more in tune with the series. The extra scenes of the Movie and the changing of scenes/music selections seem to bog down the pacing and make it more mild in intensity. However, the extra scenes, especially the battle extensions, are nice to see (but maybe redundant). I like that the OVA ending leaves more to the imagination about where all the pilots go, too.

General Thoughts:
Endless Waltz, in my opinion, was nowhere near as good as the TV series story-wise. Unlike the panel members, the simplified plot felt like a dumbing down of the series. HOWEVER, I realize it was an OVA/Movie, and so it needed to be more straightforward, lest it get muddled like F91. Don't get me wrong, I still think Endless Waltz is an enjoyable watch, but outside of its animation, it doesn't stand too well on its own. I think of Endless Waltz as a sort of "Curtain Call." After all, Gundam Wing was sort of like a play with its underlying romanticism. And, in that, it did a good job, giving us just enough background and final development for the characters to put a close on the universe.

...The plot is actually cool when seen in conjunction with the series, because of the way it cleverly changes the whole understanding of the story by explaining the original intention of Operation Meteor. That point and the chance to see the characters' past and final development (esp. Wufei with his inner demons) is probably the best thing about this OVA/Movie except for the animation and music. Both of these are stellar. Despite stylistic differences, the animation harkens back to stuff like 0080 and F91 in terms of quality. (A real boon, since IMO Gundam Wing already had strong animation for a TV series, and this just put it through the roof).

Ending:
There were two possible, acceptable reasons for the narrator saying there'd never be MS and war again. 1.) I believe I've heard SUNRISE wanted a way to close the door on Gundam Wing once and for all. This narration gave them an excuse to move on to other productions without having to return to Wing again and again. 2.) Given the play-like romanticism of the series, this ending puts a convenient, allegorical close on the theme of war and peace. It ends with a message putting hope in humanity to make the decision not to continue conflicts, and displays an allegorical world that did the impossible and chose to do so.

Expectations/Shortcomings:
Coming off the high of Gundam Wing, I was incredibly excited going into Endless Waltz. All and all, I was not disappointed. The mecha design changes threw me for a loop. It was good, as I believe Neo said, that they re-animated the White Fang fight with the new designs, or it would have been very confusing. On the other hand, I agree with Soul Bro that the lack of an explanation--that it's simply a retcon--is annoying...

The Serpent troops and Tallgeese III are suitably cool and fit great. The Gundams are cool, but are sort of odd in what was added and taken from their designs. Sandrock came away the most balanced and Heavyarms was a logical "upgrade," but the others were seemingly downgraded. Altron received stronger arms, but lost its trademark flame guns and dual beam cannon tail that gave it its much-needed long-range attack for space combat. Wing Zero lost a true flight mode, and Deathscythe lost the dual beam scythe, buster shield, invisible mode, and dual wing set. And, while these additions and losses ended up looking streamline and nice, they didn't seem as military/mechanically-minded overall as those designs from the TV series.

Something about the model kits made me believe Tallgeese III would battle Wing Zero, so I was sad when that didn't happen. But it wouldn't have fit in the script's direction, anyways.

The whole idea of throwing the Gundams into the sun was fairly tacky, especially with the ending noted of detonating the Gundams on Earth...

Finally, I didn't know about the Mariemaia controversy, but the Episode Zero manga seems to all but confirm that she is Treize's daughter. The injured Treize is seen with Nurse Leia Barton in a hospital and they seem to have a similar mindset. It's strongly implied, at least. (If it's true, it's interesting, because Heero helped put Treize in the hospital and that would mean he inadvertently created the future figurehead of Mariemaia).

My last regret of the Wing universe is the loss of Episode Zero. I'm glad some of it was in Endless Waltz, but there should have been another OVA series of Episode Zero, since it clarifies a lot and brings more gravity to the universe. (Sans the post-EW Preventer addition, which was unnecessary and half-hearted).

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Post by Thundermuffin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:05 pm

You guys missed a chance after the "more than meets the eye" line to say that Tieria is a ROBOT IN DISGUISE.

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Post by hawk of endymion » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:37 pm

Thundermuffin wrote:You guys missed a chance after the "more than meets the eye" line to say that Tieria is a ROBOT IN DISGUISE.
Are the Innovators actual robots? I thought they were more genetically engineered humans.
The Equation of the Robot Apocalypse:

The Admiral + Flashlight = Dead Robo

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Post by Areku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:10 pm

hawk of endymion wrote:Are the Innovators actual robots? I thought they were more genetically engineered humans.
A popular-yet-unconfirmed rumor is that Tieria/Innovators are androids, and this rumor's been around since early in Season 1. I personally favor it (and constantly reference it in jest), but as of now it's completely unfounded and looking increasingly unlikely.

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Post by Chris » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:30 pm

Areku wrote:A popular-yet-unconfirmed rumor is that Tieria/Innovators are androids, and this rumor's been around since early in Season 1. I personally favor it (and constantly reference it in jest), but as of now it's completely unfounded and looking increasingly unlikely.
It's more than just unlikely, it's pretty much a certainty that they aren't. If the Innovators were androids, they wouldn't need genetic engineering and nanomachines to adapt to space and suppress aging. They're nothing more than superhumans, or if you prefer the term, maybe "biological androids."
"What did catch my eye, however, was a podcast named Gundamn!. At first I thought it was a podcast about firearms and [rednecks] discussing their collection, but after looking at the episode titles I was sold." - Xhavalor

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Areku
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Post by Areku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:45 pm

Chris wrote:It's more than just unlikely, it's pretty much a certainty that they aren't. If the Innovators were androids, they wouldn't need genetic engineering and nanomachines to adapt to space and suppress aging. They're nothing more than superhumans, or if you prefer the term, maybe "biological androids."
I must have missed that. Or did you mean that because they use QBWs, they must have gone through the same procedures as Soma? That sounds like an assumption (there may be a non-biological way to create QBWs), but not one I'm going to argue over. I will point out that, if basically human, the Innovators seem to have gone through more modifications than those in the HRL Super Soldier program, notably because the Innovators don't seem to age. Until we get concrete information one way or the other, I'll cling to my old impressions, but that's all they are and I won't pretend otherwise.

Should we move this to the Anime thread or is it fine here?

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Post by Chris » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:49 pm

Areku wrote:I must have missed that. Or did you mean that because they use QBWs, they must have gone through the same procedures as Soma? That sounds like an assumption (there may be a non-biological way to create QBWs), but not one I'm going to argue over. I will point out that, if basically human, the Innovators seem to have gone through more modifications than those in the HRL Super Soldier program, notably because the Innovators don't seem to age. Until we get concrete information one way or the other, I'll cling to my old impressions, but that's all they are and I won't pretend otherwise.

Should we move this to the Anime thread or is it fine here?
Regene flat out explains that Innovators have undergone genetic engineering and have nanomachines to suppress aging and adapt to space. Robots don't age and don't need genetic engineering to be in space, so they're clearly biological creations.
"What did catch my eye, however, was a podcast named Gundamn!. At first I thought it was a podcast about firearms and [rednecks] discussing their collection, but after looking at the episode titles I was sold." - Xhavalor

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Areku
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Post by Areku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:05 pm

Chris wrote:Regene flat out explains that Innovators have undergone genetic engineering and have nanomachines to suppress aging and adapt to space. Robots don't age and don't need genetic engineering to be in space, so they're clearly biological creations.
Was that in episode 33? If so, it looks like my decision to try a different subber for that episode was a bad idea. Otherwise, it must have just been a lapse of attention on my part. :oops:

Either way, that's a rather overwhelming point you have thar.

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Re: Ep. 026 - Milquetoast Buffet

Post by Red Comet90 » Sun May 03, 2009 9:04 pm

I wanted to ask yet another question about the music. What's the song that plays when the Gundam Roundup for Endless Watlz is ending?

The episode was hilarious and the segment on Soul Bro's men was hilarious. Another awesomely hilarious episode. :mrgreen:

I found it really interesting that we still aren't 100% sure that Mariemaia is really Treize's daughter or not. I would have to agree that she may not have been his daughter because of what Dekum says.
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Re: Ep. 026 - Milquetoast Buffet

Post by Demon Lord of L5 » Tue May 12, 2009 2:17 pm

I want to reply a comment that Soul Bro said on Xbox Live that even though he is not an anime character he said that Top Gears James May is one of his men I am sorry SBR but your wrong your man from Top Gear is Top Gear Stunt Man due to he has failed at everything he has tried
COME AND HAVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOUR HARD ENOUGH!!!

BECAUSE I THE DEMON LORD OF L5, ODENST
WILL NOT BACK DOWN TO THAT CHALLENGE

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