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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Great episode guys. I can't wait for the last reviews of Code Geass. I actually agreed with Soul Bro about the Black Knights betraying Lelouch. I think they believed Shneizel about geass because it explained all of the "miracles" Lelouch was able to perform. If he did have the ability to Geass people, then they would be scared to even talk to him. But I can definately understand those with the oposing opinion though.

I do have a question about what Chris said concerning the recording of Suzaku and Lelouch's conversation though. He mentioned that when Lelouch told Suzaku that he geassed Euphi, it was taken out of context, because Suzaku already knew that it was an accident. When did Suzaku find this out? I either missed it (quite possible), or it was in the picture dramas (which I have so far only seen the first two of)

Keep up the good work

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:11 pm 
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Battosai28 wrote:
Great episode guys. I can't wait for the last reviews of Code Geass. I actually agreed with Soul Bro about the Black Knights betraying Lelouch. I think they believed Shneizel about geass because it explained all of the "miracles" Lelouch was able to perform. If he did have the ability to Geass people, then they would be scared to even talk to him. But I can definately understand those with the oposing opinion though.



But the Black Knights passed judgement on Lelouch without hearing his side. Also, they quickly accepted the testimony of the opposing side. The same opposing side who lied and deceived the Black Knights in the past. No matter what Lelouch did to gain success, he still delivered the Black Knights what they wanted most, the freedom of Japan. But they threw it all away by quickly throwing with Britianna over weak evidence.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:23 pm 
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hawk of endymion wrote:
Battosai28 wrote:
Great episode guys. I can't wait for the last reviews of Code Geass. I actually agreed with Soul Bro about the Black Knights betraying Lelouch. I think they believed Shneizel about geass because it explained all of the "miracles" Lelouch was able to perform. If he did have the ability to Geass people, then they would be scared to even talk to him. But I can definately understand those with the oposing opinion though.



But the Black Knights passed judgement on Lelouch without hearing his side. Also, they quickly accepted the testimony of the opposing side. The same opposing side who lied and deceived the Black Knights in the past. No matter what Lelouch did to gain success, he still delivered the Black Knights what they wanted most, the freedom of Japan. But they threw it all away by quickly throwing with Britianna over weak evidence.


But remember that they made the deal with the promise that Japan would be totally free from Britannia's rule. Not to defend them or anything, but the Black Knights were reaching their breaking point, and all it took was Shneizel and Oghi to cause everything to go to hell. And to be honest, when people are angy, they are not interested in the other side of the story. Not to defend them or anything.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:41 pm 
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That really is the kicker. In the first few eps of R2, the Black Knights, or what remained of them, still trusted Zero enough that they devoted all of their resources to rescuing Lelouch from the tower. Hell, their devotion was to the point that Urube sacrificed his life. When Lelouch frees the rest of the Black Knights, there was a bit of dissent, but Lelouch pretty much said "Yeah, I used you, and I'll keep on using you until both our goals are met", and Todou and Ohgi pretty much accepted that.

I think what Chris and Neo have a problem with, is that the seed of dissention for the Black Knights started with the slaughter of the workers at a creepy Britannian lab in the middle of a fracking desert. Sure, it seems like an odd thing to do, but really, you're at war with Britannia and they have a weird lab in the middle of a desert. It's not a hospital for sick kids by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, when Lelouch returned to the Black Knights, Kallen confronted him about his use of Geass and left satisfied with his answer, so much so that she suffered through imprisonment and torture to keep his secret. When the Black Knights turn on Lelouch, all of a sudden she turns on him as well? A big WTF? moment there.

The Black Knights had Schneizel, the Prime Minister of Britannia and the leader of the military forces occupying Japan, sitting in a board room on their ship, prime for assassination and a quicker end to their struggle and war, and what do they do? Get duped into mutinying on their own leader.

The Black Knights truly are useless without Lelouch holding their hands.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:10 pm 
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V2Buster wrote:
Also, when Lelouch returned to the Black Knights, Kallen confronted him about his use of Geass and left satisfied with his answer, so much so that she suffered through imprisonment and torture to keep his secret. When the Black Knights turn on Lelouch, all of a sudden she turns on him as well? A big WTF? moment there.


I guess someone has to point out that Kallen actually wanted to let them hear Lelouch's side of the story. She was technically willing to die for him in fact, given the circumstances. Granted, that wasn't just out of loyalty but also included her feelings for him, going by the dialogue in that episode and other later bits.

Kallen didn't move out of the way until Lelouch told her, intentionally because he didn't want her to die with him, that she was simply a pawn and that everything else had been a game.

When he told her to "live on" she once again went back to her initial position....but then Rolo came in and things went in another direction.


Last edited by wielder on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Exactly, both sides did some horrible things. But for the Black Knights to turn on Lelouch who only gave them things they wanted, is ungrateful. In essence, the Black Knight acted the same way Britianna did, condemning people without proper evidence or defense.

All of this because, Oghi couldn't remember "bros before hoes"

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Battosai28 wrote:
I do have a question about what Chris said concerning the recording of Suzaku and Lelouch's conversation though. He mentioned that when Lelouch told Suzaku that he geassed Euphi, it was taken out of context, because Suzaku already knew that it was an accident. When did Suzaku find this out? I either missed it (quite possible), or it was in the picture dramas (which I have so far only seen the first two of)


I never said Suzaku knew it was an accident. I said Suzaku knew Lelouch was lying when he gave his reason for why he used Geass on Euphemia.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:56 pm 
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Just finished up the final segment.

On G, I think you hit all the main points, including the impact that episode 6 has. I'll add that the Domon/Master Asia fight in 45 is even more awesome because Chibodee and the other SA members are proclaiming that it is going to be the awesomest fight ever (not-so-subliminal brainwashing!) and that Rain gets her own Gundam kill at that time (and against an HK, no less, which is especially impressive because it took the other SA members 2v1 to beat the others). I was also expecting for one of you point out a few ideological parallels between Master Asia in this episode and Char in CCA. Good job and a great listen.

Don't really have anything to say about the CG segments, besides addressing this:
Chris wrote:
I never said Suzaku knew it was an accident. I said Suzaku knew Lelouch was lying when he gave his reason for why he used Geass on Euphemia.

Starting at 1:50:30, your exact words (doing what I could to accurately punctuate it; I'm not a reporter or anything so sorry if I didn't use the appropriate punctuations for vocal pauses and such) are:
Chris wrote:
"Schneizel plays an out of context tape of Lelouch admitting to using Euphemia and the massacre to control the Japanese, which obviously he said to Suzaku but that's not what he really meant because he was covering up that he Geassed Euphemia by accident. And Suzaku knew it but obviously you don't know that hearing this clip out of context. So now the Black Knights are totally against..."

With the explanation you provided above, I can see how you were trying to say that, but I don't think you can fault anyone for misinterpreting it as "Suzaku knew it was an accident" instead of "Suzaku knew it was a lie". I put the part that I think is confusing in bold; that "it" attracts attention to "accident", not "covering up".

I'm not out to grill you or anything, just trying to clear up confusion. If only podcasting had a simple edit button...


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:23 pm 
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:13 pm 
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I'm kinda surprised that AmuroNT1 wasn't a special "guest" in this episode cause I really liked his comments and expertise in Geass disscussions but can't complain too much since the episode is already out. Hope you guys include him in the finale reviews/disscussion of Code Geass.

PS: Also loved G-gundam because it's just one of those shows you can enjoy without expecting too much out of it like some people did from UC when this show is AU.


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Areku wrote:
Don't really have anything to say about the CG segments, besides addressing this:
Chris wrote:
I never said Suzaku knew it was an accident. I said Suzaku knew Lelouch was lying when he gave his reason for why he used Geass on Euphemia.

Starting at 1:50:30, your exact words (doing what I could to accurately punctuate it; I'm not a reporter or anything so sorry if I didn't use the appropriate punctuations for vocal pauses and such) are:
Chris wrote:
"Schneizel plays an out of context tape of Lelouch admitting to using Euphemia and the massacre to control the Japanese, which obviously he said to Suzaku but that's not what he really meant because he was covering up that he Geassed Euphemia by accident. And Suzaku knew it but obviously you don't know that hearing this clip out of context. So now the Black Knights are totally against..."

With the explanation you provided above, I can see how you were trying to say that, but I don't think you can fault anyone for misinterpreting it as "Suzaku knew it was an accident" instead of "Suzaku knew it was a lie". I put the part that I think is confusing in bold; that "it" attracts attention to "accident", not "covering up".

I'm not out to grill you or anything, just trying to clear up confusion. If only podcasting had a simple edit button...


Thanks for clearing that up. At least now I know I'm not completely crazy.

Conceerning the "Black Knights are idiots" arguement that I unintentially started, all I have to say is that I am not saying what they did was smart. I just can't help putting myself in their shoes on this one. If my mysterious masked leader had performed these mysterious and miraculous actions, I would be incredibly suspicious. Geass tied together most, if not all, of the reasons for the BK's inexplicable success. That being said, most of the Black Knights are simple resistance fighters, and a common trait which can be found in a group of simple people is paranoia. It is not unreasonable to me to see that the BK's may believe that they have already been geassed, and thus are afraid of Zero. Again, I am not defending the BK's. Rather, I can fully understand why they would be terrified enough to do what they did, as I would be.

Also, they didn't kill Shneizel because they were under the threat of the Knightmare that came with him.

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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Real quick:

01. You're on Demon! And we'll do it live on Level Nine (if the hosts are cool with it)!!!!

02. Level Nine is finally up, for those who have been asking! Check it!

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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:47 pm 
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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:58 pm 
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yazi88 wrote:
I'm kinda surprised that AmuroNT1 wasn't a special "guest" in this episode cause I really liked his comments and expertise in Geass disscussions but can't complain too much since the episode is already out. Hope you guys include him in the finale reviews/disscussion of Code Geass.

PS: Also loved G-gundam because it's just one of those shows you can enjoy without expecting too much out of it like some people did from UC when this show is AU.


There were some scheduling issues with AmuroNT1, but I'm sure he'll make an appearance sometime soon.

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:16 am 
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The week they did that episode I was pretty busy, and even if I'd gotten the time to participate, I don't know if my comments would have been the same caliber as my last broadcast.

But rest assured, I do plan on making a triumphant return to Gundamn...

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:02 am 
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AmuroNT1 wrote:
The week they did that episode I was pretty busy, and even if I'd gotten the time to participate, I don't know if my comments would have been the same caliber as my last broadcast.

But rest assured, I do plan on making a triumphant return to Gundamn...


Awesome, looking forward to it.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:39 am 
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Another great episode guys.

Could someone explain to me how the Wing Gundam appeared in G Gundam when G came out before Wing? Does Kunio Okawara have 100 years worth of Gundam designs premade that he just pulls out as needed?

The only thing that ever made me shake my head at G Gundam were its space colonies. I'm no physicist, but I'm pretty sure that a chunk of land in the shape a country, covered in a glass dome, will not be very comfortable. Not to mention ideas like Neo Mexico's colony in the shape of a giant sombrero. That and the boxing ring beam ropes that encircle the earth during the fight. It sometimes crosses the line into corniness.

Finally, a shout out to the most powerful of all the Gundam Fighters: LUMBER GUNDAM.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:48 am 
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thanatos wrote:
Could someone explain to me how the Wing Gundam appeared in G Gundam when G came out before Wing? Does Kunio Okawara have 100 years worth of Gundam designs premade that he just pulls out as needed?


It wouldn't surprise me if he has software that randomly generates Gundams for him. But seriously, the last episode of G aired the week before Wing and featured an episode preview for Wing at the end. We don't know when, but Wing was well in production before G ended.

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Another Guntastic episode, guys! I've been lurking around MAHQ for years and was a member of the old GundamOfficial.com forums; I love the Gundam Roundup features, and I was happy you did G-Gundam proud. You touched on all the points!

I am excited for your GUNDAM WING roundup. I'm hoping you guys will give it a fair shake. It gets way too much undeserved hate in my opinion. In some ways, I think it could be said it has the best Gundam has to offer mixed into it. And, while it has UC elements in it, they were remixed and blended with many unique elements in powerful ways. Just a few include:

*The numerous armies and organizations involved; evolving the Gundam universe past Federation vs. Zeon, or Titans, AEUG, etc.

*The previous point leading to a realistic, dynamic world where friend and foe are constantly turned upside down and the changing political map affects each character in different ways.

*The mad doctors' agendas being a catalyst in the story.

*The personal demons of each of the [mysterious] pilots trying to regain their humanity after being forced into being teen soldiers for various reasons/under various circumstances.

*The story of the creation of Tallgeese in relation to the Leo and Gundams, creating a self-contained continuity of mecha development.

*The unique look of the Zodiac line of mobile suits.

*The debate of removing mankind from combat; replacing mankind with AI/robots and what that does toward making war a game.

*Guerilla warfare being the primary warfare style presented.

*Outside the Gundams' immense power, the world presented feels more grounded and less like sci-fi (IE: there's not huge fleets of space warships).

*The design of the colonies.

*War as an incentive for the military industrial complex.

*The debate on peace, and what it means.

*The peaceful kingdom archetype later used in SEED, etc.

*The action being more intense, dynamic, and unpredictable, with such scenes as Heero and Quatre rolling out of a plane with machine guns.

*No home base ship (ala White Base) until the end with Peacemillion.

*Zechs being different from Char in that he searches for meaning and a cause to fight for after getting revenge for his family.

*The numerous unique characters and their motives, such as Trieze, Lady Une, Noin, Howard, etc.

*More female characters in strong roles: Noin, Une, Relena, Dorothy, etc.

*ZERO System and how it bends/challenges a person's humanity. (Later mirrored by the UC's EXAM System)

*The story focuses on Earth in the beginning more than most other Gundam series, and touches on the politics of many regions, from Asia (Boont and Nanaki) to the Middle East (The Maganac Corps).

*Of Note: The Gundams are not invincible despite comments to the contrary, for they do actually get damaged, run out of ammo, or are destroyed at various points in the series. It is simply a case of superior technology. We see that as those who fight the Gundams become more powerful with Mobile Dolls, the Gundams' advantages wane.

*Of Note: the missing details lost because the Episode Zero manga was not animated due to time constraints.


Last edited by LightningCount on Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:30 pm 
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That was a good show, guys. I've been listening to Frontier, Geass, and 00 reviews even though I haven't seen them myself yet. I'm waiting for them to air stateside. I won't have terrible withdrawals and excruciating cliff hanger anxiety like the rest of you! =p

Your G Gundam cover wasn't as developed as I expected it to be. I suppose the discussion you had for G earlier on was much more enthused and passionate. Maybe it's mostly due to the fact that you guys are trying to avoid too many spoilers.

I have to admit, I was REALLY not a fan of G Gundam when it first aired. In fact, I thought it was really dumb, and it detracted from people's understanding of Gundam Wing. I was only able to watch through G Gundam once, and that was during the CN airing. I was never much into it. However, strangely enough, after listening to Neo and Soul Bro discuss it in one of their earlier episodes, I fell in love with it, too. I didn't even need to watch it again. I could remember everything. It's strange how you guys can change a guy's mind!

My first impression of G Gundam was really terrible though. A lot of weird, mind-melting things happened! "A Gundam wearing a sombrero!?!!?" "Why are you hanging from a cliff by your fingertips?? Gundams can fly!!" The whole tournament thing didn't do much for me either. Typically, it's the way to do the most fighting scenes with the least amount of story or character development. However, from listening to you, I'm very much aware of everything else that was happening behind it all. What got on my nerves back in the day was how people liked G Gundam better because it was easier to watch. It had its own complexities, but I suppose not in the same kind of way as Wing did. I just thought it was really stupid how people didn't like Wing as much only because they didn't have any intellectual investment in it. =/ But it's not that they had any intellectual investment in G either. ....okay, I should just drop the whole "crappy Gundam fan" talk right now. Blah. -_-;

I love the Shining Gundam to death though. I tend to like first Gundams more than the mid-series upgrade for whatever reason.

Anyhow, I'm very much looking forward to your discussion of GW. LightningCount...or should I say...Milliardo....hit the nail on the head. In earlier installments of Gundam Roundup and the other installments of the podcast, you guys called out the so-called fans for being dumb for various reasons. I hope you can do the same for Wing.

But yeah, I can throw in a few things you guys might talk about. One of my favorite things about the GW MS design is that they give a vibe of being military hardware. They don't feel like giant robots to me. It just feels so legit, you know? Leos are my favorite grunt MS. Also, a long time ago I lead a discussion on Gundam Wing's use of "total pacifism" over in the anime forum. Maybe you guys can dig it up to see what we talked about. (Or I'll dig it up if so asked. I'm not just putting up anywhere now to make anyone feel obligated.) That's just a few points of view you could take into consideration. We got a lot of perspective from many of the board members here.

Alright, I should shut up and be on my way now. Take it easy, guys.

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