Transformers origins- What's your theory?

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wraith1701
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Transformers origins- What's your theory?

**I did a couple of searches, and couldn't find any topic relating to the origin of the Transformers. Hope that I'm not re-posting an existing topic!**

I was a big fan of the G1 Transformers series as a kid, and the new movie has naturally reawakened my interest in the franchise. When I was younger, there were a few obviously implausible things that I could easily overlook- namely:

-How did a Machine-based alien life-form evolve?

-Why do these life-forms so closely resemble the human body-type (two legs, two arms, a head with two eyes, a nose, and a mouth)?

-Why do these life-forms have the ability to transform into other objects? And why do the majority of them transform into vehicles?

As far as I know, these questions haven't been addressed by either the T.V. shows or the comics. I've come up with a few theories of my own, but I am very interested in hearing what other members think.

Please post your theories! :)
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Turinu
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I think I can tackle the third one. Being able to transform between a variety of objects is most likely a means to adapt and blend in to various environments; sort of like a natural defense mechanism. It allows them to blend in as to not be targetted by say, various species on a planet. By transforming into vehicles, they are able to blend into a modern earth society. By transforming into animals (though somewhat large ones, like in Beast Wars) they're adapting themselves to the natural environment of that planet in order to blend in.

As for the second question, I think that's just because the people who created Transformers wanted the robots to be able to, y'know, be recognized by the viewers and what not. I can't think of a in-story explanation.

For the first question, I don't think they "evolved" to begin with, I think they were just created. Optimus Prime isn't exactly some young, new leader; in most of the series he's portrayed as someone who has centuries of experience under his belt, and has quite an extensive base of wisdom. Thus I don't think they've yet to evolve in the first place. Just that they were advanced to begin with.
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Maybe the organic race(creators) got wiped out during the men-against-machines warfare, only then Cybertron was created, by Skynet of course...
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-How did a Machine-based alien life-form evolve?

One of the theories from the TV series is that the Quintessons created the robots that eventually became the Autobots and Decepticons. Another I read in the Transformers book was they were the creations of Primus, the conscious core of Cybertron before it went dormant. In general I would imagine a machine life-form could evolve quite rapidly adding new functions and discarding older ones, it could rewrite it's programing starting with simpler functions and growing progressively more complex over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_life

-Why do these life-forms so closely resemble the human body-type (two legs, two arms, a head with two eyes, a nose, and a mouth)?

I can't think of a rational reason other than there's no reason why they couldn't have a parallel path of evolution on another planet.

-Why do these life-forms have the ability to transform into other objects? And why do the majority of them transform into vehicles?

This falls in line with your question on machine life-form evolution, the Transformers may have found that it advantageous to transform into different modes for stealth, mobility, and increased combat ability. As the civil war on Cybertron wore on, they could have found that being able to adapt their bodies to different conditions or just being able to fly or roll rather than walk was a big advantage.
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Thundermuffin
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http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Primus

Here's all the background info on Primus, commonly thought to be the progenitor of the Cybertronian race. There's a lot of different versions of the story.
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Thundermuffin wrote:http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Primus

Here's all the background info on Primus, commonly thought to be the progenitor of the Cybertronian race. There's a lot of different versions of the story.
Thanks for the link, Thundermuffin. :)

That wika provides a lot of information, but the tongue-in-cheek manner in which it is delivered makes it hard to separate canon from non-canon. Still; it is very interesting information. I'm gonna need a little while to digest it all.
Codename:V wrote:Maybe the organic race(creators) got wiped out during the men-against-machines warfare, only then Cybertron was created, by Skynet of course...
:lol: lol That actually lines up pretty closely with my hypothesis. I imagined that maybe in the distant past, a humanoid, organic race developed advanced machines of war (perhaps like Mobile suits :wink: )

An arms race escalates between opposing factions of this race, as each side tries to build machine-weapons superior to those of the enemy. As technology advances, different breakthroughs are made, such as the creation of a technology that allows the machine-weapons to transform for optimal performance in different environments (much like the Valkyries of Macross, or the transforming Mobile Suits of Gundam).

As more and more advances are made to the Machine Weapons and their control systems, a crucial line is crossed- the Machine Weapons become self-aware (que The Terminator theme :wink: ).

Eventually, either as a result of their own war, or at the hands of their newly sentient machines, the alien race is exterminated, leaving nothing behind but their Machine Weapons. Over the ensuing centuries, the Machine Weapons (Transformers) somehow loose knowledge of their true history and create the story of Primus, Unicron, The Matrix/Spark etc. to help explain their origin.
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wraith1701 wrote:
Thundermuffin wrote:http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Primus

Here's all the background info on Primus, commonly thought to be the progenitor of the Cybertronian race. There's a lot of different versions of the story.
Thanks for the link, Thundermuffin. :)

That wika provides a lot of information, but the tongue-in-cheek manner in which it is delivered makes it hard to separate canon from non-canon. Still; it is very interesting information. I'm gonna need a little while to digest it all.
Oh, all of it is canon. It's just different canons. Transformers has got Gundam and pretty much almost every scifi property beat for alternate universes.

Good quote from someone whose identity escapes me at the moment-

"There's continuity, there's messed-up continuity, and then there's Transformers."
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*pops knuckles* I knew being a Transformers geek would come in handy eventually. :P

Okay, first, as Thundermuffin's said, continuity is a tricky thing in Transformers. You can divide G1 by itself into cartoon, comics, UK comics, Dreamwave comics, iDW comics, Japanese cartoon, and Japanese manga sub-continuities.

Then there's G2 which is a seperate continuity loosely based on prior G1, and Beast Wars which is set in the future of G1, based on a mish-mash of elements from all the G1 sub-continuities.

But anyway, the beginning of TF life tends to be pretty simple.

Animated G1 Continuity:

The Quintessons, an ancient biomechanical race of merchant traders, built two lines of mass produced machines. The Slaves and the Gladiators. The Slaves were intended for manual labor, and built as such, to maintain machinery and other civilian tasks. The Gladiators were military hardware, and built with conquest, destruction, and battle in mind. The Quintessons sold these machines from their planet sized factory world of Cybertron, spreading them far and wide. They also created massive drones called the Guardians to protect themselves. However, thanks to time travel, the present day Autobots enabled the Slave mech A3 to utilize a device that paralyzed the Guardians and allowed the Slaves and Gladiators to rise up against the cruel Quintessons and kick them off the planet. Thus began Cybertron's Golden Age.

This answers several of your questions

- Advanced robotic life didn't evolve. It was developed as products to sell by the Quintessons.

- They all look vaguely humanoid because the Quintessons are canny merchandisers and produced units that their customers would identify with(pretty much every alien in the TF universe BESIDES the Quintessons are humanoid)

- They transform into things because that was a useful feature for the Quintessons to include. The vast variety of vehicle modes were probably to give them the ability of faster travel as well as great strength in robot mode.

Anyway, now we move onto....

Comics G1 Continuity

In the beginning of the universe, two primordial gods, Unicron(the embodiment of destruction and chaos) and Primus(the embodiment of creation and order) fought one another in the newly born universe. Primus sought to protect the universe from Unicron's consuming rampages, but in the process of fighting him on the astral plane, not only was Primus weaker, but their battles destroyed the very creation Primus was trying to save. Primus thus decided to trick Unicron, returning to the physical plane. Unicron followed without thinking, and both wound up imprisoned within massive asteroids. Unicron, enraged by his imprisonment, focused his power on changing his prison into a massive new body for himself, that could transform from a planet sized vessel into a mimicry of his original astral form. Primus, however, took a different tactic, and began to create life upon his prison, reforming it into Cybertron and populating it with sentient mechanoids, the Children of Primus, who would help him to battle and perhaps destroy Unicron. Seeing what Unicron had done with his prison, he bestowed the ability of transformation on his children as well, to better prepare them for the final conflict. And then, as Cybertron entered a Golden Age, he fell into a deep sleep, exhausted by his efforts.

Here, most of your questions are answered as well.

- They didn't evolve. They were created specifically by Primus as sentient beings.

- They are humanoid because Primus created them in his image, and he was a humanoid form before he became the core of Cybertron.

- They transform because Primus gave them that gift after seeing Unicron use it in his mammoth new physical form, to better prepare them for the coming conflict.

Anyway, G2 was an entirely different continuity but generally didn't involve the creation myth, and Beast Wars/Machines actually tried to merge all THREE together into one big backstory(given the inherent contradictions this would cause, it's assumed that it sort of has another alternate G1 as its past, which features an entirely unique history). And then there's the various Japanese series, which if they have seperate creation myths for the TFs, I haven't heard of them.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch some football while eating pork rinds or something suitably "manly" so I can try to pretend I'm not a COLLOSSAL geek for not needing to look any of that up. :lol:
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Following on from OpMegs post, a little detail on the Dreamwave and IDW continuities.

In Dreamwave comics, their origin tends to follow G1 comics, with the Transformers being a creation of Primus, and so on and so on. It's very convoluted, since Brad Mick, aka Chris McDonnogh and whoever else was in the office that day, had a grand plan involving Primus and Unicron with an understanding of past and future, that was never revealed due to the company going under. There were also Quintessons for some reason.

IDW's origins are still well hidden, with the transformers having lost most of their history over the tens of millions of years. Simon Furman has stated that Primus and Unicron may not have a presence in this continuity as active entities, thanks to overuse. In Spotlight Nightbeat, the title character paid a visit to an alien world, where the organic species was in the process of replacing their flesh with cybernetic parts, and he found himself wondering if that was the history of the Transformers.
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Thundermuffin wrote:...Oh, all of it is canon. It's just different canons. Transformers has got Gundam and pretty much almost every scifi property beat for alternate universes.

Good quote from someone whose identity escapes me at the moment-

"There's continuity, there's messed-up continuity, and then there's Transformers."
:lol: Thanks, man. I thought so, I just wasn't sure.

OpMegs wrote:*pops knuckles* I knew being a Transformers geek would come in handy eventually. :P

Okay, first, as Thundermuffin's said, continuity is a tricky thing in Transformers. You can divide G1 by itself into cartoon, comics, UK comics, Dreamwave comics, iDW comics, Japanese cartoon, and Japanese manga sub-continuities...
"Tricky" is an understatement!
OpMegs wrote:...Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch some football while eating pork rinds or something suitably "manly" so I can try to pretend I'm not a COLLOSSAL geek for not needing to look any of that up. :lol:

lol Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of the history, OpMegs.
Oh, and save some of those pork rinds for me! :lol:

It looks like the Comics G1 continuity nicely explains the origin of the Matrix of Leadership (it's the legacy of Primus, right?). But if the G1 animated Transformers are descendants of mechanical servitors produced by the Quintessons, and not the creation of a cybernetic Supreme Being, how does the Matrix play into animated continuity? Did the Quintessons build it? If so, why would they create such a device for a race of mass-produced servants?
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Don't worry, OPMegs, Transformers is my main geeky font of knowledge too. 8)

Some exclusive Botcon comics have reconciled the two origins (cartoon and comic), with the Quintessons saying artifacts like Vector Sigma (Which could very well be the brain of Primus) and the Matrix existed BEFORE they settled on Cybertron.

However the fact that these comics have relatively low availability to people outside the conventions, coupled with the fact that most of the stories started in some of them went unfinished because the company that organized Botcon went under, means that most people don't widely consider them canon.
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wraith1701
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Thanks for all of the information guys.

This discussion has re-awoken my interest in the Transformers comics. I went to my local comic shop during lunch today, and was overwhelmed by the number of different series out there- Energon, Armada, War Within, etc., etc. I know that IDW currently holds the Transformers comic license, but the latest books out seem to be a reprint of some old marvel stuff (Transformers: Target 2006), and a one-shot featuring Galvatron. I picked up Target 2006 and the Galvatron book; now I find myself fixated by the character- this is the coolest incarnation of Megatron of all, In my opinion.

Anyway, I was wondering- has IDW put out any series dealing with the G1 transformers during the Rodimus Prime/Galvatron era? Specifically, I'm looking for any storylines featuring Galvatron. If a series like this exists, what is it called? I want to pick up the trades to get caught up. If there aren't trade paperbacks, I'll grab the back-issues. I just need to know which series to get...
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wraith1701 wrote:Thanks for all of the information guys.

This discussion has re-awoken my interest in the Transformers comics. I went to my local comic shop during lunch today, and was overwhelmed by the number of different series out there- Energon, Armada, War Within, etc., etc. I know that IDW currently holds the Transformers comic license, but the latest books out seem to be a reprint of some old marvel stuff (Transformers: Target 2006), and a one-shot featuring Galvatron. I picked up Target 2006 and the Galvatron book; now I find myself fixated by the character- this is the coolest incarnation of Megatron of all, In my opinion.

Anyway, I was wondering- has IDW put out any series dealing with the G1 transformers during the Rodimus Prime/Galvatron era? Specifically, I'm looking for any storylines featuring Galvatron. If a series like this exists, what is it called? I want to pick up the trades to get caught up. If there aren't trade paperbacks, I'll grab the back-issues. I just need to know which series to get...
IDW comics are the latest (and greatest, I must say) comic continuity and a good place to "jump on".

Their main universe consists of several storyarcs, plus "Spotlight" issues on particular characters, like the Galvatron one (By the way, you must be confused as hell about that, the Galvy Spotlight is heavily reliant on knowing a lot about the continuity so far.) For example, Galvatron in IDW continuity is actually a separate character from Megatron, and actually predates him, as the Spotlight shows.

The storyarcs so far are Infiltration, Stormbringer, Escalation, and the supplementary Spotlights. All three main storyarc are available in trade form currently, as well as a trade for the first five Spotlights (Shockwave, Nightbeat, Hot Rod, Sixshot, and Ultra Magnus). Then there have been three other Spotlights released since then- Soundwave, Kup, and Galvatron.

Here's a link with summaries of every main universe issue so far, plus in-depth reviews- http://tfrebellion.com/twreview.htm

Guess who did every one of those reviews...
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Yeah, Thundermuffin's definitely right there. iDW comics so far have been an excellent relaunch. Unlike Dreamwave, which attempted to tie into the previous universes of sorts(tried, operative word), iDW is essentially "Ultimate Transformers" if you're familiar with the Ultimate Marvel concept. Between that and the fact that they're pretty much scripting out the entire world in advance, the books have a rather uncanny level of coherence(seeing Prowl talking to Prime over a communications channel in Infiltration is reflected in Stormbringer where you see the conversation from Prime's side of things). Little connections like that tend to bind the series together really well.
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Thundermuffin wrote: IDW comics are the latest (and greatest, I must say) comic continuity and a good place to "jump on".

Their main universe consists of several storyarcs, plus "Spotlight" issues on particular characters, like the Galvatron one (By the way, you must be confused as hell about that, the Galvy Spotlight is heavily reliant on knowing a lot about the continuity so far.) For example, Galvatron in IDW continuity is actually a separate character from Megatron, and actually predates him, as the Spotlight shows...

...Here's a link with summaries of every main universe issue so far, plus in-depth reviews- http://tfrebellion.com/twreview.htm

Guess who did every one of those reviews...
You are correct; I was kind of lost, until I saw the link to your reviews.

Great job, by the way; the review on Spotlight: Galvatron cleared up a lot of questions that I had. The story makes a lot more sense now!
OpMegs wrote:Yeah, Thundermuffin's definitely right there. iDW comics so far have been an excellent relaunch. Unlike Dreamwave, which attempted to tie into the previous universes of sorts(tried, operative word), iDW is essentially "Ultimate Transformers" if you're familiar with the Ultimate Marvel concept.
:D Yep; I'm familiar with Marvel's Ultimate books; I've followed Ultimates, Ultimate X-Men, and Ultimate Spider-Man fairly closely for the past several years.

You guys have sold me on these books; I plan on picking up the Trades tomorrow!

So; let me make sure that I understand. Aside from the movie tie-in books and out-of-continuity specials, there are only 2 IDW monthly transformer series running right now- Transformers and Transformers Spotlight, right? And these series take place at the same time, with Transformers featuring the "main" characters, and Spotlight shifting the point of view to feature a different Bot each issue; kind of like the X-Men books?
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wraith1701 wrote:
Thundermuffin wrote: IDW comics are the latest (and greatest, I must say) comic continuity and a good place to "jump on".

Their main universe consists of several storyarcs, plus "Spotlight" issues on particular characters, like the Galvatron one (By the way, you must be confused as hell about that, the Galvy Spotlight is heavily reliant on knowing a lot about the continuity so far.) For example, Galvatron in IDW continuity is actually a separate character from Megatron, and actually predates him, as the Spotlight shows...

...Here's a link with summaries of every main universe issue so far, plus in-depth reviews- http://tfrebellion.com/twreview.htm

Guess who did every one of those reviews...
You are correct; I was kind of lost, until I saw the link to your reviews.

Great job, by the way; the review on Spotlight: Galvatron cleared up a lot of questions that I had. The story makes a lot more sense now!
OpMegs wrote:Yeah, Thundermuffin's definitely right there. iDW comics so far have been an excellent relaunch. Unlike Dreamwave, which attempted to tie into the previous universes of sorts(tried, operative word), iDW is essentially "Ultimate Transformers" if you're familiar with the Ultimate Marvel concept.
:D Yep; I'm familiar with Marvel's Ultimate books; I've followed Ultimates, Ultimate X-Men, and Ultimate Spider-Man fairly closely for the past several years.

You guys have sold me on these books; I plan on picking up the Trades tomorrow!

So; let me make sure that I understand. Aside from the movie tie-in books and out-of-continuity specials, there are only 2 IDW monthly transformer series running right now- Transformers and Transformers Spotlight, right? And these series take place at the same time, with Transformers featuring the "main" characters, and Spotlight shifting the point of view to feature a different Bot each issue; kind of like the X-Men books?
More or less. What's running right now is Megatron: Origin, a mini-series that, well, tells the origin of Megatron. It's kind of a stop-gap between Escalation, which just concluded a month or two ago and the next "main" storyarc, Devastation, which begins in September, I believe.

And the next Spotlight, which will be focused on Optimus Prime (The first Spotlight on a character that has been already featured heavily in the main book, actually), should be out within a month or two. Spotlights don't have a monthly schedule per se; they come out when it is right for the story.

And you've got, like you said, the movie tie-in stuff around, and a second Beast Wars series is starting up next month as well.

Oh yeah; I should mention. The Spotlights are pretty essential reading too, as the plot developments that are seeded there inevitably find their way to the main book.
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