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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:26 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:30 pm
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Well, hello, everyone! This is Burke Rukes, long-lost writer/creator of the long-lost-to-antiquity Mecha Domain web site. After a 10 year absence from the Gundam fan community, when I went through a major burnout following the shut-down of Mecha Domain and selling off all of my Gundam material (videos, books, models, EVERYTHING!), I drifted around to different areas of fandom. Over the last several months, however, I've been dipping my toes back into the familiar waters of my old Gundam favorites, as well as watching Gundam Unicorn, which I've been enjoying very much. Currently I'm watching the English dub of Zeta Gundam (not bad!), and soon I plan to dive into watching SEED, SEED Destiny and 00 for the very first time. I also recently purchased and built the first Gundam model I've owned in many years - a MG Zeta Gundam version 2.0 (Wow! No sagging wings!). :D

It feels both exciting and a bit scary, getting back into one of my most favorite old areas of fandom after being gone for so long. It's like re-living fond old memories, and yet feeling like an outsider, looking in at the shiny new young series and young fans and wondering if I'll even fit in anymore.

Be that as it may, here I am! I'm hoping to share my first impressions of this "new" stuff, have some fun and interesting discussions, find some old friends (what few of you I can remember in my late-30's old age :P ), and make some new ones. I just ask you young whippersnappers to be gentle and patient with me, while I ask all sorts of seemingly ignorant and stupid questions about newer shows that are old hat to a lot of you. I promise not to be a grouch, shaking my beam cane at you and yelling at you kids to get offa my launch catapult. :D

PM's welcome, and as always...

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- Burke

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Last edited by Burke Rukes on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Bald Wizard
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Holy crap, the timing of you showing up is amazing. Just last week I was going through old backup CDs and found my complete archive of your final version of the Mecha Domain. I had thought I lost it years ago, so it was definitely a nostalgia trip browsing through the site. It made me wonder what you've been up to since you had dropped off the internet so many years ago. It's definitely good to have you back.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Hey Chris! Yup, I pretty much disappeared into lurkdom, bouncing around other areas of fandom for quite a long time. I'm not exactly sure what caused me to come back to Gundam after all this time, but it's been a pretty weird, fun trip, rewatching all the old stuff for the last year or so. (At least, the old stuff released on DVD/blu-ray in North America. I'm still patiently waiting for those Turn A DVDs. :P )

You and the gang have been doing a great job keeping up with all the new stuff, and fixing all my mistakes on the old mecha profiles and whatnot. I have to tell you that my renewed interest in Gundam is focusing more on the stories and characters (and even some philosophical sides) rather than the mecha and stats and the techy stuff. But giant robots are just awesome. I'm going to take it easy, and just enjoy my old hobby carefully, like savoring a fine wine. :D

I can't say how active I'll be here on Mecha Talk - probably not very, other than making occasional posts to talk about my first impressions, or maybe spark some nitty-gritty story/mental discussion and reply to replies. I'm pretty busy with other things these days, but I'll be around, at least lurking if not talking.

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child

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Uh, wow, consider me floored to see the one and only Burke show up (return?) here.

You're in for quite a ride if you're three seasons back, but that's the point of watching a show, right? I'm curious to see what your particular POV is on some of the "new blood" of the First Franchise in the Real Robot genre.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Imperial wrote:
Uh, wow, consider me floored to see the one and only Burke show up (return?) here.


[modest ego] Please, please, no autographs. I'm just a humble old school fan, who's happy with the contribution I made to English-speaking Gundam fandom back in the olden times. :P [/modest ego]

Imperial wrote:
You're in for quite a ride if you're three seasons back, but that's the point of watching a show, right? I'm curious to see what your particular POV is on some of the "new blood" of the First Franchise in the Real Robot genre.


I'll confess I did see the first 2 or 3 episodes of SEED several years back. I admit that part of what made me lost interest in anime in general back then was the art styles of most characters - personally, I prefer the more "realistic" styles of older anime and designers like Yoshikazi Yasuhiko. The modern emphasis on the "big eyes small mouth" with the wild, spiky hair on most anime characters just doesn't appeal to me - thankfully Unicorn harkens back to the realistic style. But, I'm going to try to keep an open mind watching the SEED and 00 stuff. At the very least, modern CG mecha animation looks -very- cool! :D

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:43 pm 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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Welcome back, Burke!

You'll be pleased to learn Gundam the Origin is getting an anime adaptation of sorts, so you can look forward to some more realistic goodness :D Hilarious that SEED sorta turned you off originally though!


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Elitist Earth Politician

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Old school fans are always welcome here. I should know. :D I didn't cruise the Net so much when your site was up, but since you're here, pleased to meet you!

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Thanks for the welcomes, Deacon and Zeonista! As for SEED turning me off, it wasn't that, specifically. It was anime in general and the prominent newer art styles I just didn't like. I dropped out of anime sometime between Turn A (which I actually quite enjoyed) and SEED. I caught the first bit of SEED when it came out, just out of curiosity. From what little I remember, I thought the story was pretty good and the mecha animation looked great, but the character designs - just bleh.

But now I think I'm ready to watch the new stuff without being turned off by that so much. Here's hoping for good stories and, of course, cool robot on robot action. :D

But first I need to finish the English dub of Zeta... so strange watching this in English now, when the first dozen or so times I'd seen the series was in raw Japanese with no subtitles on old VHS tapes, or fansubs once or twice. It's surreal... :)

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:13 am 
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Hot-blooded Gattai
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Burke Rukes wrote:
I caught the first bit of SEED when it came out, just out of curiosity. From what little I remember, I thought the story was pretty good and the mecha animation looked great, but the character designs - just bleh.
That's about par for the course. Even today people still say that everyone has the same face, and they have a fairly good gripe about it too.

Quote:
But now I think I'm ready to watch the new stuff without being turned off by that so much. Here's hoping for good stories and, of course, cool robot on robot action. :D
I don't think you'll be disappointed there. Especially with the larger scale battles in the first season of 00.

Quote:
But first I need to finish the English dub of Zeta... so strange watching this in English now, when the first dozen or so times I'd seen the series was in raw Japanese with no subtitles on old VHS tapes, or fansubs once or twice. It's surreal... :)
Can't say I know what that's like, but on the flip side of the coin, I can remember the first time I watched Wing in Japanese after seeing it in english on Toonami several times and found it quite different.

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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:18 am 
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Der Bigen Slicen
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Burke Rukes wrote:
But first I need to finish the English dub of Zeta... so strange watching this in English now, when the first dozen or so times I'd seen the series was in raw Japanese with no subtitles on old VHS tapes, or fansubs once or twice. It's surreal... :)


Funny you should mention that as we've just been having a debate about Zeta and why it's so great. (I think it is.)

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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:12 am 
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Mecha Flunky

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Nothing like an old fan posting to bring other old timers out of the shadows. Burke! It's Burke from the old GML days! BURKE!

I think there's plenty of us lurking around this and other boards... Me more so than others - I gots wife, kids and mortgage to worry about these days. :P

Still, it's great to be reminded that Gundam never really gets out of anyone's system. Heck, I recently made a new friends in a recent Japanese ex-pat the same age as me, who was in the target demographic when Zeta Gundam first came out - we reminisced quite a bit. Which reminds me, I've got the Zeta movies downloaded that I still gotta watch...

Mark-II


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Hey Mark-II! I do remember you from the old GML days! Long before the days of modern stuff like forums, and podcasts. MAHQ has a -PODCAST-! I've been listening to the archives since I signed up here yesterday. :P

I did watch the Zeta movies a few months ago as well. Very gorgeous new animation... which doesn't fit well with the original 1985 animation. And the changes to the story... lots of good stuff that got cut out, sadly. As for changing the ending so you-know-who doesn't become a vegetable (and negates ZZ?)... and you-know-who's certain gold-plated MS wreck floating by with the cockpit open at the very end no longer there... I dunno. The movies are entertaining, sure. But they lack so much of the heart of the TV series, particularly with the 2nd & 3rd movies. The movie trilogy for First Gundam is far superior, IMO.

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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Hi Burke! Welcome back!

Another wayward fan lured back into the fold by the siren song of Gundam Unicorn. I think that arrow hit its demographic mark. :-)

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:42 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:30 pm
Posts: 88
toysdream wrote:
Hi Burke! Welcome back!


Well hello, Mark! Thanks, and good to see you again, too. I had to check your profile to make sure you're who I thought you were. Looks like you've been pretty busy - great artwork on your web site. I've been dabbling in character artwork myself for the last few years (DeviantArt link in my profile, though I haven't added any of my newer work to it in a while), since having my own interest in comic books (mostly DC) re-sparked. Maybe I'll have to whip up some Gundam artwork as well... :D

toysdream wrote:
Another wayward fan lured back into the fold by the siren song of Gundam Unicorn. I think that arrow hit its demographic mark. :-)


Yup, it seems to have done the trick! I've heard about a Gundam The Origin animation in the works, as well. I'm -very- curious about that, hoping it'll be a full-fledged TV or OVA or movie series, and not just some shorts or webisodes. Unicorn has been a great return to the Universal Century so far, but the months-long wait for new eps is a tough one!

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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Reading your original post was great for me.

Though I never was a contributor in any sense, the series meant so much to me in my middle/High School years and I just sort of stopped watching all anime entirely at some point in late high school.

To dig into this stuff now nearly 10 years later is fascinating and bizarre all the same. It's like I can feel those same sentiments I clung onto so strongly, but from a different light.

Haha and as an aside if your averse to bad character design then you will be horrified by the look of Age characters. Though that first episode was not terrible...


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Andrew86 wrote:
To dig into this stuff now nearly 10 years later is fascinating and bizarre all the same. It's like I can feel those same sentiments I clung onto so strongly, but from a different light.


I agree, in many ways I'm the same old Burke from those days, at least in terms of my hobbies and interests. But now, after all this time, I'm a very different person, I look at the world in general, and my old faves and hobbies like Gundam, in a different light indeed. But those old sentiments, as you say, are still there and pretty strong, I'm finding. :)

Andrew86 wrote:
Haha and as an aside if your averse to bad character design then you will be horrified by the look of Age characters. Though that first episode was not terrible...


Yeah.... I saw a trailer/preview video of AGE on YouTube a few weeks ago. The Gundams look pretty neat. The characters, on the other hand... *shudders in horror*

Well, today I ordered the Anime Legends DVD collections of SEED and SEED Destiny, as well as SEED Destiny Final Plus. I should be finishing up my run of the Zeta series dub this weekend, and will hopefully start SEED this next week. I'll probably start a separate thread for that, share my thoughts and impressions for discussion there. I'm wondering if I should bother with the SEED and Destiny compilation movies, considering their price. (I'm already choking on how much I'm going to have to spend to get the whole run of 00 later on!) Are the movies worth it?

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:43 am 
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Mecha Flunky

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I find myself in a similar boat to you with regards to missing out on SEED, Destiny, and 00 - I think I dropped out of active participation in the fandom right as word of SEED was beginning to circulate or near enough to that, but it's been first on my list of catch-up seasons. It's had its high and low points but overall I haven't been disappointed so far, and I hope it proves to be something you can enjoy too. :)

I don't have a lot to say about Age beyond the fact that the aggressively retro characters design aesthetic really does not engage me. But I've been able to see past unengaging character designs to good storytelling before, and with my fondness for Gundam as a franchise I'm hoping I can do the same (or, rather, that Age is worth trying to do the same for).


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:34 pm 
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Elitist Earth Politician
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Welcome. I lurked around Mecha Domain and remember it being one of the hot spots around the Toonami airing of Wing along with this site, Gundam Project, and Gundam Plus. The wealth of info made me very excited for a future of Gundam in the US that never quite came to be. (I really wanted a dub of Gundam X! Maybe it will still happen, but it's not likely...)

The art style of some latter series, like SEED, does take a lot of getting used to. But in some cases (and I will be speaking broadly), it's worth it. Read on:

Burke Rukes wrote:
Well, today I ordered the Anime Legends DVD collections of SEED and SEED Destiny, as well as SEED Destiny Final Plus. I should be finishing up my run of the Zeta series dub this weekend, and will hopefully start SEED this next week. I'll probably start a separate thread for that, share my thoughts and impressions for discussion there. I'm wondering if I should bother with the SEED and Destiny compilation movies, considering their price. (I'm already choking on how much I'm going to have to spend to get the whole run of 00 later on!) Are the movies worth it?


SEED compilation movies are pretty sloppy and unnecessary as far I've heard. They add three things more or less, a face/personality to a minor character/plot point that is mentioned but only seen at a distance before death, another face to a certain enemy, and an edit in the latter episodes that helps pave the way for Destiny. None of these edits need to be seen, however. There was an epilogue episode that was Japan-only that also sets things up further for Destiny, but that never came out of Japan.

(The SEED TV series itself, upon repeat viewings, is not as bad as I once believed, and is actually quite enjoyable with the way it both reimagines 0079 and goes on to develop its own identity. I think it maybe has the best "masked character" since Zechs. So, SEED has grown on me and, despite some hiccups (like side-story manga being important to events in the main plot), I think it is the most "Complete" and "satisfying" of the post-2000 Gundam series).

The Destiny compilation movies depend on your taste. They're more useful than the SEED compilations, but by and large, they aren't required viewing. They streamline a lot of clunky bits of the series, but they also cut out some really great episodes of material and replace certain music with vocal inserts. Most important is the last movie, which basically extends Final Plus--itself an extended edit of the last TV episode--so that there is an additional epilogue beyond Final Plus to set up the Gundam SEED Destiny sequel movie that has gone into development hell due to health issues among a key staff member and the passing of time that made way for 00, Unicorn, and AGE.

(SEED Destiny TV series itself has an extremely strong start and a boosted level of animation. I had a lot of fun with it the first time through, and it has definite highlights. Unfortunately, it is dragged down by exacerbating the flaws that the original SEED series had along with seemingly indecision by the writers. Thus, in its latter episodes, it sort of becomes a tumbling shadow of the potential it showed. Sad, because it had enough elements to top SEED if carried out more carefully).

There's also Mobile Suit Gundam SEED C.E. 73: Stargazer, an ONA interquel that takes place during different points of Destiny, focusing on new characters. It is sort of the 0080 of this Gundam universe, and would be spectacular had it not been so short (3 episodes). It is a shining example of the potential in the CE universe of Gundam, though. This one didn't make it overseas, sadly.

Gundam 00 is the series that made me give SEED a second look (and appreciate SEED more despite its shortcomings). 00 is brimming with amazing potential, and has moments where it is just locked in, but its format of two 13-episode seasons helps to shoot it in the foot. As much as its animation quality shines, 00 feels like a series on cliff notes to me that sort of turns its back on its somewhat bold premise and fails to delve deeply or consistently enough into its world and characters. The 1st Season is the memorable one here--and should have been extended into a longer run, IMO. (I have yet to see the movie sequel to Season 2). The compilation movies of 00 haven't come out of Japan yet (and may not). The highlight to those come mostly in the first compilation movie from what I've read/seen, where there is a greatly embellished fight scene with gorgeous animation.

Gundam Unicorn for me, despite a few great moments, has hit its peak in the first episode so far. I just feels like it's catering too strongly to the traditions of UC. Its familiarity ensures that it fits in UC and tickles diehard UC fans, but more casual UC fans like me find the similarities too blatantly repetitive and bland--especially given some of the things done in AU in the interim. It hurts Unicorn from establishing a really strong identity all of its own. It's not bad by any means, but I think it's holding itself back thus far. Past OVAs, like 08th Team and 0080 had a lot more personality and varied perspective, IMO. Unicorn feels more like F-91 meets SEED more often than not.

Gundam AGE is a series that I don't know what to make of yet. Gundam 00's character designs were closer to what I wanted than SEED, which took more getting used to, but AGE will take an additional amount of viewing effort to look past its designs. However, there have been younger designs in Gundam before, and AGE could end up fantastic. Its writer is the person from the mystery-based Professor Layton video game series, which is supposed to be very well written. So we'll see. I'm not calling gloom and doom just yet.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Thanks for the info and opinions, LightningCount. I may or may not take a look at the Seed & Seed Destiny movies later on - it just depends on my budget and level of interest after I finish watching the TV shows proper (and plow through 00, of course). Unicorn has been a great treat for me, so far, seeing a lot of the old, but with the flavor of the new, and expanding on the history of the UC timeline, as well. I'm excited to see where the series goes. Yesterday I pre-ordered volume 4 from Bandai and squee'ed just a bit when I saw a certain character's name listed in the episode's blurb.

I should be starting up Seed tomorrow, and I'll start a separate thread for sharing my impressions. Here's hoping for at least an entertaining ride! *crosses fingers* :D

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Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
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Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Bald Wizard
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I would highly recommend avoiding the SEED movies. They cut out tons of stuff from the TV series and are pretty poorly edited. All you get new out of them is a face for a previously faceless character, and a look at what the masked man of the series actually looks like. They don't stand on their own and only make sense if you've already watched the TV series first.

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