Opinions re: MS cockpit location vs. pilot viewpoint

[MechaGear]

This is more of a general question to you guys rather than a query into what's canon in the animation. What do you think is the ideal main camera viewpoint in regards to the location of the cockpit in a mobile suit? Traditionally it seems that pilots are housed in the chest area (makes sense, more armor) while the main cameras go in the head, with exceptions such as the Zeong. Presumably, then, pilots have the POV of the suit itself, but need to keep in mind where they're physically located when shielding against enemy fire or blocking a melee attack.

I seem to recall an instance from Gundam where a character reminded another pilot to "remember to guard the chest" (though perhaps I'm thinking of a different mecha show), pointing out that a pilot's natural instinct will be to protect his "face." Defensively, then, a less awkward position for the camera would be in the chest area (and as far as I can tell a number of suits indeed have this; additionally, most Gundam video games have the 1st person perspective always from the chest). Then again, this would result in a partially obscured viewpoint when using a shield, not to mention arms & weapons getting in the way.

Auxiliary cameras might make up for any deficiencies in either case, so this may very well be a matter of personal preference. Let's say you're a mobile suit pilot. If your MS has its cockpit placed in the chest, which would you prefer: main camera in the chest or the head? Or would you rather sortie in a suit where the cockpit is in the head? Do you think the option to switch between the two perspectives during operation would be available?

I'm thinking mostly of OYW technology here, with a relatively limited array of monitors, though I suppose this question might still be relevant to Zeta era MS; i.e., where is the virtual "center" of the spherical viewpoint located?

P.S.: Feel free to open this up to any sort or scale of mech, it doesn't have to be a strictly Gundam-related topic.

[MrMarch]

I would assume the pilot himself can choose the Point of View (POV). If I recall, there are multiple cameras all over the mobile suit. At least in the early One Year War (OYW) era, it would be a simple matter to shift the POV from upper center of mass to the head unit by means of a multiple camera setup. I suppose the later panoramic cockpits might pose more problems as the camera system would need to be far more integrated and extensive.

There are also other exceptions to the cockpit setup in a mobile suit. Char's MSN-04 Sazabi from the Char's Counterattack movie featured a cockpit in the head/lower neck of the mobile suit. This setup also featured the 360 degree panoramic monitor, so it can really be placed anywhere on a mobile suit that is convenient.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Putting the viewpoint in the head is half the point of mobile suits, at least in UC; the higher viewpoint gives them a more commanding view of the battlefield, and thus makes it easier to spot things like tanks that might be shooting at them.

[DeltasTaii]

Pretty much any time we've seen a chest view it's an animation error (see: beam sabers coming directly at the stomach, and thus screen), because it just doesn't really work, nor is it necessary. It's not as if you're manually going to block the head with your shield by accident, the controls to do that would be far too complicated.
Piloting an MS is moreorless like playing an FPS with some pedals for speed and thrust control, and a few more buttons to play with. Ergo, you might as well go for the oh so comfortable, first person head view, where you can actually properly judge the height of your MS, more accurately line up one's aim (see: X-Wing style targetting computers in MSG and SEED), see further, and have one of the advantages claimed of the humanoid layout-inherent familiarity.

[Albireo_818]

Pretty much any time we've seen a chest view it's an animation error (see: beam sabers coming directly at the stomach, and thus screen), because it just doesn't really work, nor is it necessary. It's not as if you're manually going to block the head with your shield by accident, the controls to do that would be far too complicated.

This happens a lot in SEED, when both Nicol and Yzak see kira's sabre/sword coming straight at them, when both are aimed for the chest, and (in DESTINY) when Shinn is fighting outside A1, a view is shown of him looking into a viewscreen with a shield boscuring half the view and a barely-visible beam rifle off to the side.
I'm not sure if the SEED Gundams had cameras in the chest, i can't discern any, but, then again, i can't discern whether KFC has fat in it or not.

[DeltasTaii]

There are, mind you, other more concrete examples of the FOV being centered on the head in SEED. The main, highly important one being Kira blowing the head off of every 3rd grunt he sees.

There's also a shot in Phase 2 of SEED showing a camera that well, is possibly not physically possible, but nonetheless looks down on the Strike's chest while its lying down.

I guess if I was trying to justify it, it's that they switch to the "OH CRAP, YOU IS PWNT" cam when something's about to hit the cockpit, considering Shinn also blocked the beam from one of Exas' gunbarrels at the absolute last moment.

[Recon 5]

The automatic perspective switch is an interesting idea. It would technically be feasible seeing as a MS has cameras all over its body. Switching to a view that shows the threat would be as simple as displaying input from a different camera. Also, a pilot would be more likely to dodge an attack that looks like its coming directly at his face rather than one which approaches from the edge of his peripheral vision. In fact, if the pilot was limited to a head camera, attacks on his torso would pass outside his field of vision- very dangerous indeed.

[Vate]

There are also other exceptions to the cockpit setup in a mobile suit. Char's MSN-04 Sazabi from the Char's Counterattack movie featured a cockpit in the head/lower neck of the mobile suit. This setup also featured the 360 degree panoramic monitor, so it can really be placed anywhere on a mobile suit that is convenient.

That brings up a question that I've been wondering for a long time. How in the world does the panoramic cockpit work? I mean, Gundam eyes are soo deeply sunken into their face and don't forget the stuff they have sticking out of their shoulders, wings/wingbinders, etc that might get in the way, but they never do...

[Rudy A Winchester]

I have a few comments for all of this:

First, I think in the way that mobile suits work as a concept, it only makes sense that the display output to the pilots is always in the first person view from the head. I know that several times in most all Gundam series this is broken, as people looking at the chest and all sorts of things will show up on the main screen inside of the cockpit. I do believe this is "animation error." But for the most part I think it's quite obvious that the main monitor displays the view from the mobile suit's eye(s), and I believe the concept of mobile suits support this.

Second, I actually disagree that the cockpit should be in the chest of the mobile suit. Because of the view reasons (particularity the protection aspect), I've always felt as though the cockpit for a mobile suit should lie in the head. It could get very confusing in the heat of battle where you are in a mobile suit if the main output is from the eye(s), though the cockpit in the chest. Forgetting to block your chest could be very deadly. I personally think the cockpit would make much more sense in the head for all mobile suits. Even those there is likely to be less armor, it is a considerably smaller target, further away from the nuclear reactor, gives the ability of a reasonable (and cheap, opposed to the expensive core fighter system) escape pod, forces the pilot to keep in mind where he/she really is in relation to the monitor's output, et cetera. The biggest disadvantage I come up with for a cockpit in the head is movement; with the head moving around, so would the pilot. This could cause a sort of motion sickness. Though this, of course, could be solved by making the cockpit fixed in place with the head moving around it (if I recall, this is how it works in the Sazabi).

Third, I've always tried to figure how the panoramic cockpit could technically work. And I'm sure it's been brought up before in Gundam discussion. Though I am pretty strong on the verdict that it can't be done the way Gundam does it. Even if you had cameras all over the mobile suit, they would get blocked often and they would be from all different distances, and near impossible to piece together because of this (even if you made all of them line up zoom-wise, it would mean that you couldn't get clear picture when something was extremely close, which we see on several occasions). For instance, the only way to get a view directly under the mobile suit would be to have the camera under the waist; but then you'd see the legs moving about constantly. I really don't see how a panoramic cockpit would work at all. The only way to do it properly would be to have the cameras floating about around the suit...which I just don't see as being a good idea. Again, I'm sure this is where the "fiction" part meets Science Fiction for Gundam.

[DeltasTaii]

There is the minor point, in addition to having downwarding facing cameras in a lot of other places, that the panoramic monitor, BS's the 360 degree view, filling in partial or poorly focused or seen information with its own. For example, if you're walking forward, the below view is probably partly filled in with information from when you were looking at it while walking toward it, and partial vision of a known library object would be complete by the computer. Equally, a fuzzy looking mobile suit will be replaced with a clear image, which is what makes say, dummy balloons effective.

And the problem with the head cockpit, even a rotating one, is that it's unnaturally far from the humanoid center of gravity. No matter what, you're going to experience a ton of additional G-Forces just from the suit re-orienting itself, and it's going to mess up your sense of balance while piloting.

[J-Lead]

There is the minor point, in addition to having downwarding facing cameras in a lot of other places, that the panoramic monitor, BS's the 360 degree view, filling in partial or poorly focused or seen information with its own. For example, if you're walking forward, the below view is probably partly filled in with information from when you were looking at it while walking toward it, and partial vision of a known library object would be complete by the computer. Equally, a fuzzy looking mobile suit will be replaced with a clear image, which is what makes say, dummy balloons effective.

That's what I sort of gathered from scattered explanations and ramblings here and there on the 360 degree monitor. In simpler words, the image projected by the panoramic moniter is a simulated image rather than direct camera feed. This simulated image is generated through visual data gathered by the multitude of cameras strewn about the MS combined with internal data and calculations used to fill in the blanks, thus creating a full panoramic image. This is somewhat supported by the fact that the Gaplant had a blind spot on the bottom; for whatever reason, it had difficulties compiling an accurate image depicting the underside the mobile suit, thus giving Kamille the upper hand.

In other words, the image the pilot sees on the panoramic moniter is super-shooped in real time.

[MrMarch]

There are also other exceptions to the cockpit setup in a mobile suit. Char's MSN-04 Sazabi from the Char's Counterattack movie featured a cockpit in the head/lower neck of the mobile suit. This setup also featured the 360 degree panoramic monitor, so it can really be placed anywhere on a mobile suit that is convenient.

That brings up a question that I've been wondering for a long time. How in the world does the panoramic cockpit work? I mean, Gundam eyes are soo deeply sunken into their face and don't forget the stuff they have sticking out of their shoulders, wings/wingbinders, etc that might get in the way, but they never do...

The image inside the 360 degree panoramic cockpit could be either simulated based on radar/sensor data or the mobile suits could have addition camera systems mounted in several different locations to provide an actual visual respresentation. Keep in mind that multiple cameras need not necessarily be visible on the mobile suit head unit. Transparent one-way glass could be used to cover a camera port and it would be indistinguishable from any other solid portion of the head unit (or even the larger mobile suit itself). Also, many mobile suits have numerous "glass-like" sections on the head unit which may also be camera related.

[mcred23]

We know MS have other, unseen in the animation, cameras and visual sensors mounted on the body, it's confirmed by the definition of what is a panoramic screen, just like the never shown, but also known to exsist, back up systems that allow a MS to see even when the head is destroyed.

[headgirlsfan]

Gundam's cockpit's location is different from other mecha anime. In other mecha animes (such as Code Geass and Eureka Seven), the cockpit is mounted on the back. Gundam is different, it is mounted on the chest. I think that this is dangerous because the enemy may cut you into pieces easily.

[auriga]

Gundam is different, it is mounted on the chest.

In most cases, it isn't the chest. Gundam cockpits are usually located in the abdomen.

[Gadget]

And one is in the pelvic area.

[DeltasTaii]

The back cockpit is more of a modern attempt to be different for the most part. Most large mecha have torso cockpits, although the Code Geass style has been seen before in similarly tiny mecha. Eureka Seven largely uses it for the coolness of jet-fighter style canopies and tank style hatches, but there's also the in-universe problem of having to mount the cockpit somewhere on the archetype. But historically, stomach or chest, followed by head are the standards for both reals and supers.

[RedBlitz]

Speeking of cockpits... the GN-X has very good location, right in the crotch area. Sure it sounds weird... but where do you usually aim when fighting an MS?? The chest area, so in my opinion this location for a cockpit kinda cranks the survival rate up a little. Hell it saved Patrick at least!!

[auriga]

I agree that the relocation of the cockpit to the pelvis does increase survivability (that's why I hate it when people make fun of the Turn-A's cockpit), but I feel that we're diverting the thread already.

So yeah, story for another day.

[amagee]

Speaking to the idea of the cockpit in the head, it really doesn't seem practical taking into account that the head houses most of the main cameras for MS. Since a MS is roughly 10x the size of a human in most series, then the head could only be around let's say, 10 feet tall and probably around 8 of less feet deep. Thus, the head could not function as an effective cockpit area since it would not be enough space for cockpit and the other functions of the head.

I would say a good reason for the Zeong having the cockpit in the head would relate to the size of the suit. Being enormous, it could have the room for a regular sized cockpit along with weapons and (I guess) camera equipment. Maybe if suits were generally in the size range of the Zeong, it would make some better sense for the cockpit to be in the head.

Also, in terms of late U.C., it is specifically the smaller size of MS that make them more effective machines of war. Having the cockpit in the head of something with suits that size would make even less sense.