MS IGLOO ship acceleration/maneuverability

[J-Lead]

i was always a little annoyed my MS igloo. it looks great, and has amazing space battles that remind me of the battle of jutland, yet they went a little to far.

i just rewatched most of it at sakuracon, and i really started to see the unrealistic parts. they animators went overboard with the CGI, making everthing in that series ripping around like crazy. dodging beam rifle shots and jumping through the air wasnt exactly something first generation MS were very good at.

Actually, I thought that MS capabilities in a zero-g environment were portrayed very well in IgLoo, probably better than any other series yet. After all, we've seen first generation mobile suits performing similar zero-g manuvers in series like 0083, the battle outside the colony in 0080, and even the first MSG, despite it's dated animation, contained similar feats. The only difference between then and now is that the wonders of CGI can bring out the full brilliance of those manuvers, which can sometimes make it look a bit exaggerated due to the fact that we aren't used to seeing full CGI battles in the OYW. The only part that irked me was when Jean Luc Duvall was being chased by the GM squadron; the backround movement made it look like he was circling around the Earth, although I'm sure that was just applied for dramatic effect.

The ships, however, were occasionally somewhat inconsistant with most, if not all animated series.

just look at the final episode with the Zudah, they looked more like Berga Giros then competition for the zaku.

I always thought that the whole impression they were trying to give off was that the Zudah performed well over the Zaku's capabilities; it just had a nasty habit of spontaneously combusting, thus was shanked in favor of the not-so-deathtrappy Zaku. The specs sure seem to indicate that.

[flamingtroll]

as for the ships, manuvering like that looks cool, but will probobly cause serious harm to anyone on board. i beleive 9g's is around the max of what fighter pilots do "comfortably". 15 g's is black-out to death range (depending on the health of the individual). at 20g's (V2) you will probobly die.

Gah, I can't help but to need to correct this misconception. There is a difference between vertical and horizontal acceleration that a body can take. The reason that pilots black out at 9 Gs or is because they are doing turns or loops, and therefore it has a good amount of vertical acceleration that pushes blood away / into the brain, causing blackouts and "red-outs" respectively. A person can survive well for higher Gs and for a longer time if it was horizontal acceleration that doesn't affect blood flow into the brain.

[Prana]

Also, don't forget that fighter pilots can sustain 9 Gs because they're seated and wearing anti-G suit.

Not sure those standing people normally seen in the anime (like the helmsman) could really sustain that acceleration easily though. We don't see the interior of Federation ships in Igloo (IIRC) but standing people is the norm in the OYW (like in the Joutenheim or the White Base)

[Commander 598]

I think this is simply a case of animation error as we don't see anything like it again throughout the rest of IGLOO. The whole first episode could have benefited from a little extra work.

[J-Lead]

I think this is simply a case of animation error as we don't see anything like it again throughout the rest of IGLOO.

Yes we do, to an extent, and CGI isn't something that's very prone to animation errors on that level, as the animators don't draw the frames, but rather use 3D models, move them around, and render them as they see fit into each frame, which, when put into continuity, makes a scene. The animators intended the Salamis to look like it was going that fast, and they did a good job of it.

[Commander 598]

I suppose you have some source for the claim that we do see it again because I can't for the life of me recall anything that extreme happening again. Even Apoc 0079's 3rd episode which had tons of ships and when they changed course they moved like you'd expect a ship to move - slow.

[J-Lead]

I suppose you have some source for the claim that we do see it again because I can't for the life of me recall anything that extreme happening again. Even Apoc 0079's 3rd episode which had tons of ships and when they changed course they moved like you'd expect a ship to move - slow.

Apocolypse 0079 episode 2 has two Salamis Class Cruisers accellerating at a similar rate, almost appearing as if they were lapping the moon. Either way, the point stands that the CGI animators intended them to move that way in the first episode for whatever reason (or the camera work played a nasty trick on your eyes.)

[Commander 598]

I should have been a bit more specific as I meant the incident where the one Salamis pulls an impressive turn and accelerates away and is most likely pulling enough Gs to kill or at the very least kill most and irreparably maim the strongest of the crew, unless you believe that early UCverse has "inertial compensators".

[amagee]

Ruling out exact science in all this, I think there may be a reason for such different depictions in this 1st episode depicting Loum. This is off the cuff so bear with me:

At Loum, MS battles were still relatively new to fighting techniques in space. The tactics or rapid attack seen by the Salamis may have simply been as a result of using older style tactics in a space battle. If you think about it, it would be more prudent for ships fighting in space with only fighters to actually be more active in battle. Fighters cannot get up close and personal at a ship and do sustained damage like a MS so the more aggressive use of battleships and cruisers may reflect a greater need for the ships to provide close range, heavy fire for attacking ships.

As MS later get used more often in warfare, ships basically become stationary bases from which long range support is given and MS are launched and resupplied when needed. Thus in all later depictions they play little active role in battles.

Taking yet another turn, look at the Musai compared to the Salamis. The Musai is designed more as a fire support ship with practically no close range defensive weaponry. If it were to get into the thick of things with a ship or fighters, it would rely on its MS compliment to provide close range support. The Musai was specifically built to fight in MS warfare.

Chivvays, Salamis, and Magellans were all made prior to the OYW when fighters dominated the scope of space battles. All of these have many close range weapons systems like small missiles and AA guns. If my theory has any merit, this makes sense because these ships would have a much easier time fighting up close and personal with other ships and fighters.

That's my take. Any thoughts...

[OrionsGambit]

The animiation is very wacked in the beginning of MS Igloo. The Salamis that your talking about pull MS-like manuvers when they book it and have thrust jets coming from random places on the vessels (a massive thrust burst is seen coming from the top of the deck between the bridge and forward deck gun where there isn't any rocket engine or thrusters evident on either the MSG line art or MS Igloo cgi art to so for it.

[amagee]

I understand that it seems drastically unrealistic for the ships to be doing such things but my argument was that maybe that is how the animators decided to depict standard ship vs. ship tactics before MS were deployed. I don't doubt they got a bit ahead of themselves mind you.