cross-generational OS/pilot questions

[Lans]

I always assumed it was destroyed or damaged beyond repair.

I also share the same assumption.

Back to the original topic, I never get any decent information about ALICE and EXAM system. The only thing I could understand is that the ALICE system is "better" than the EXAM. Sadly this kind of understanding comes from G-Generation Zero game, so I have my own doubt about that. While it makes the unit harder to kill and easier to hit (high evade rate and high accuracy), I never know about how they're work and what's the logic behind the system.

I know a bit about the EXAM system from the Blue Destiny. It seems to use some sort of Newtype technology, I even suspect that they use some part of human Newtype installed into the system, making it unstable for the pilot.

[Recon 5]

From what I know, both systems have the ability to take control of a suit and utilize its full abilities effectively if the pilot turns out to be incapacitated or is judged to be useless in a certain situation. The difference, I think, is that while ALICE is a purely artificial AI (although arguably sentient and capable of learning and evolving), the EXAM has an actual Newtype human soul or consciousness trapped in it (I forgot the name of the poor Newtype, unfortunately).

In addition, while ALICE eventually became devoted to protecting Ryu Roots, I believe that the EXAM soul was a bit more independent. I could be wrong, though.

Neither is 'better' or 'worse', just that each responded to circumstances differently due to their different natures.

[Genocide]

I believe officially, the biosensor is stated to allow the pilot to control his/her mobile suit with their mind:

Its full capabilities are unknown, but the bio-sensor does allow a Newtype pilot to control a mobile suit via mental commands.

Come to think of it, this does explain a few things, such as a particular scene where Kamille stands up and screams while the Zeta shoots madly into space. Don't even get me started on the random stuff Judau did in ZZ. All the fancy god-mode hacks and increased power output of weapons and thrust seem to be just a byproduct, though as Mashymre showed us, the biosensor isn't as necessary as having actual Newtype powers.

The explaination for the psycommu system is also pretty similar:

The Flanagan Institute goes on to develop a mind-machine interface called the psycommu (psycho-communicator) system, which receives these thoughtwaves and translates them into computer commands. Using this interface a Newtype pilot can direct remote weapons, and operate huge mobile armors, by thought alone.

The psycommu seems more prominant for use with remote weapons, though I do believe a few mobile suits utilize the system directly as well.

And finally, the psycoframe:

A design approach in which microscopic psycommu receiver circuits are installed throughout a mobile suit's internal frame and cockpit walls. These tiny circuits amplify and transmit a Newtype pilot's thoughtwaves, enabling the mobile suit to respond instantaneously to mental commands.

Again, it seems to work by allowing a pilot to control the mobile suit with their mind, but the description makes it seem a lot more efficient.

While this is just speculation on my part, I think that the fundamental difference between the psycoframe of Nu Gundam and that of Unicorn lies in what they allow the pilot to mentally control. Because the psycoframe in Nu Gundam (and Sazabi) lines the cockpit, it allows Newtype pilots like Amuro to control all cockpit functions with their mind; essentially pulling levers and hitting switches through thought alone. Unicorn, on the other hand, has its entire frame composed of psycommu receptors which would allow the pilot to literally control the machine as if it were their own body (which matches its official description, I believe).

[Lans]

Just for your information, I don't want to stand on the game side either.

The "better" part is due to the in-game effect. Although I doubt whether game an acceptable cannon. In G-Generation Zero, ALICE system performs better than the EXAM system. If my memory right, I saw the increase in evading and accuracy rate of the unit with the system installed. And once I tried to install EXAM in the Sentinel which has ALICE system built in, it doesn't stack (I drop ALICE and installed EXAM) and it cause degradation in Sentinel's evade and hit.

[Kuro No Sakura]

Just for your information, I don't want to stand on the game side either.

The "better" part is due to the in-game effect. Although I doubt whether game an acceptable cannon. In G-Generation Zero, ALICE system performs better than the EXAM system. If my memory right, I saw the increase in evading and accuracy rate of the unit with the system installed. And once I tried to install EXAM in the Sentinel which has ALICE system built in, it doesn't stack (I drop ALICE and installed EXAM) and it cause degradation in Sentinel's evade and hit.

That just how g gen 0 is like
but for the new one G gen G spirit
EXAM is better system then ALICE

but that just all in game effect

I believe the ALICE is better then EXAM
since suppose only non-NT can hop in a EXAM's machine
because EXAM is build for anti-NT system

while ALICE anyone can hop in

[Ascension]

But would a newtype really benefit from ALICE? I haven't actually read Sentinel, but from what I've heard of the plot it sounded like ALICE is basically there to make up for the fact that the Sentinel's pilot is pretty unskilled.

A weak newtype could probably benefit from it, but the AI would probably just slow a strong newtype down.

[Kuruni]

ALICE will eventually help, she's pretty much daugther to learning computer. Longer she fight by your side, the better she learn.

[Lans]

This might be out of question, but what's the thing about "learning" computer? I mean what kind of learning? While the old Gundam learning computer is somewhat understandable, making the whole array of MS able to know the efficient way of basic moving, flight, aiming, blocking and combat; but ALICE is something else. From what I seen in the game, sometimes ALICE does take over the control from the pilot to prevent them from getting killed. So, how far is the ability of ALICE and what kind of support it provide to the pilot and MS?

[Albireo_818]

This might be out of question, but what's the thing about "learning" computer? I mean what kind of learning? While the old Gundam learning computer is somewhat understandable, making the whole array of MS able to know the efficient way of basic moving, flight, aiming, blocking and combat; but ALICE is something else. From what I seen in the game, sometimes ALICE does take over the control from the pilot to prevent them from getting killed. So, how far is the ability of ALICE and what kind of support it provide to the pilot and MS?

I don't usually trust games (no offence, lans*), so i thought the ALICE's effect was a little less severe. I ould be wrong, however, ALICE seemed to be there as a kind of "skill accelerator", i.e., it raised one's skill via tha A.I., learning about the pilots and predicting his movements, then acting on them.
(much like the T.A.s from Gasaraki)
However, i stress, i could be wrong. Speculation only.

[Lans]

No, it's okay. I also never counted game as canon. I only mentioned the game because it's the only source I know for this topic. Things would be different if I could get my hands on Blue Destiny or Gundam Sentinel materials in English language.

[bluemax151]

Things would be different if I could get my hands on Blue Destiny materials in English language.

Blue Destiny originated from a game but you can get the one Volume manga in English that covers the earth arc of the story. You could also check youtube for gameplay footage.

[Recon 5]

I don't usually trust games (no offence, lans*), so i thought the ALICE's effect was a little less severe. I ould be wrong, however, ALICE seemed to be there as a kind of "skill accelerator", i.e., it raised one's skill via tha A.I., learning about the pilots and predicting his movements, then acting on them.

Except that in the case of Ryu Roots, predicting some of the things he would have done and then acting on them would have been suicide. From what I gather, Ryu was relatively green throughout the story while ALICE improved in leaps and bounds.

ALICE basically functioned as a super autopilot which would take over the MS whenever 'she' felt that it was in danger. This includes danger from enemy threats and danger from trends of idiocy from the pilot. For example, if the pilot becomes fixed on a target and fails to see another enemy sniping from the side, ALICE would take over and block the shot. This is in response to both types of danger- enemy fire and pilot fault.

If the pilot was consistently doing better than ALICE, 'she' would just watch and learn. Once the pilot's performance began to degrade sharply (from fatigue, injury or plain bad luck), ALICE would take over.

[Oruma]

The "soul" or "ghost in the machine" of Blue Destiny's EXAM system is supposedly named Marion. Supposingly every EXAM system has a piece of her soul; thus she "asks" Yu Kajima to destroy all EXAM-equipped MS to free her.

[Kuruni]

plus, just like learning computer, you can duplicate ALICE's data.

By lets her learn from Amuro, it would allow any rookie to pull out technique like bazooka tossing with ease. Plus, can you imagine how deadly UC MD can be if it based on ALICE data?

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Plus, can you imagine how deadly UC MD can be if it based on ALICE data?

Funnily enough, MD seemed to be a product of Gundam Wing alone. Maybe Sunrise feels they're too "Terminator" for Gundam.

[Lans]

In Wing, super-duper-uber-computer seems to take very little space. Thus enabling them as substitute for the pilot. Other than MD, I remember that Epyon is basically a super computer, process an enormous of data to predict the outcome or any other calculation.

In the other gundam universe, it seems that's out of the question. It would take too much space to be cramped in a MS. We're talking about a space that's only as big as the panoramic cockpit in UC, after all that's the space the pilot needs to perform his job in handling the MS (for seat, HUD, instrument panel, control device, etc). IMO, there's simply too much variables too handle, and also the reliability factors. I mean, what kind of people would want a Gundam as powerful as Sentinel controlled with an AI. Wrong input of data, IFF failure, or a jamming could make the unit in trouble; Zapping it's own base and friendly unit because of malfunction, etc.

[Seraphic]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jaf8T2AIWbY

It's a little hard to tell what's going on because it's SD (and especially because we're dealing with a massive unit like the Ex-S, here) but this should give a nice example of what ALICE does.

ALICE is an absolutely excellent learning computer is what I think. If it were installed in, say, Amuro's Nu Gundam, it could probably learn how to control the fin funnels just as well as he does. Copy the ALICE AI into a grunt MS and viola: oldtype MS fully capable of using funnels. I'm not sure how much space the software takes up though. We're talking MS the size of Ex-S. Will it fit into a Jegan?

I'm a little surprised as well at how compact the supposed super computers are in AC. The remote weapons (planet defensers) seem to also be remote controlled by the mobile suit's combat computer. No need for any crazy newtypes, here.

EDIT: I've forgotten that the only reason you need a newtype to communicate with funnels is that their telepathy is not destroyed by minovsky interference. Hn...will funnels ever be AI controlled, then, or will it always be incoms? >=o

[Kuruni]

Plus, can you imagine how deadly UC MD can be if it based on ALICE data?

Funnily enough, MD seemed to be a product of Gundam Wing alone. Maybe Sunrise feels they're too "Terminator" for Gundam.

Well, UC has mobile weapon from G-Saviour. But lets pretend it does not exist... Wait, CB Skull Heart feature Amakusa, deadly unmanned MS with Amuro's combat data. I guess, it's closest to ALICE. It isn't perfect, shot it own allies down. But it's argueable if it's because they test Amakusa with Batara in simulator, or simply that Amuro's soul known these Jupitorians are evil.


Finally, CE has Stargazer's AI...

[Albireo_818]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jaf8T2AIWbY



ALICE is an absolutely excellent learning computer is what I think. If it were installed in, say, Amuro's Nu Gundam, it could probably learn how to control the fin funnels just as well as he does. Copy the ALICE AI into a grunt MS and viola: oldtype MS fully capable of using funnels. I'm not sure how much space the software takes up though.

Sou, kind of Like Mercurius and Vayeate from GW?

[Recon 5]

Not so much MDs like those but more like 'Nu GMs'. Awesome concept, but I guess that costs would be astronomical...