I am currently reading the most recent Scientific American Reports magazine , "Special Edition on Robotics". It has a nice article on something that has interested me fr many years: research on artificial muscles. Now these are not cloned "meat" muscles, but mainly ElectroActive Polymers- http://eap.jpl.nasa.gov/ . This reminded me of the "Polymer Ringers Solution" and "Muscle Cylinders" that power the Armored Troopers in Votoms. Real world ringers solution... http://www.medicinenet.com/ringers-lact ... rticle.htm ...is something quite different from some futuristic hydraulic fluid. It does appear that despite being called "Muscle" Cylinders, the ATs use pretty conventional looking hydraulics. The "Polymer Ringers Solution" supposedly gets contaminated with use, a bit like oil in an internal combustion engine, and must be filtered or changed regularly.
This leads to Ryosuke Takahashi's later series, Gasaraki. In Gasaraki, the Tactical Armors use a fictional synthetic muscle referred to as "Mile One". It actually physically resembles natural muscle quite a bit. Including leaking fluid when damaged, as well as being pliable, unlike hydraulic cylinders for example. Another anime that I recall depicting artificial muscle as bundled fibers is Bubblegum Crisis (OVA). The Boomers in BGC (and the first AD Police series) are even sometimes shown with the muscle fibers 'compressed', which limits their range of motion, but helps to disguise them (often in business clothes and artificial skin covering) before they 'decompress' for combat.
Anyway, any thoughts on artificial muscles or alternate (non-hydraulic) actuators in mecha shows/manga?
Synthetic muscle/ "Mile One"(Gasaraki) /etc.
Just two notes before anyone brings them up:
1. As far as I can tell all Gundam MS to date use hydraulics.
2. EVAs have 'real' muscle because they have living cores.
I haven't seen any other examples of artificial muscle in anime/ manga mechs (besides Gasaraki's Mile One), unless you count the 'mechs' in Utawarerumono (and I'm not sure if theirs are artificial either). Cloned or otherwise organic muscle is common, though, especially in semi- organic mechs. Some of the smaller mechs like the Tekkamen or Detonators would logically use artificial muscle, but its never been confirmed.
Outside of anime/ manga, Battletech mechs have been using 'myomer' (which is close to what we have in the real world) for a very long time.
1. As far as I can tell all Gundam MS to date use hydraulics.
2. EVAs have 'real' muscle because they have living cores.
I haven't seen any other examples of artificial muscle in anime/ manga mechs (besides Gasaraki's Mile One), unless you count the 'mechs' in Utawarerumono (and I'm not sure if theirs are artificial either). Cloned or otherwise organic muscle is common, though, especially in semi- organic mechs. Some of the smaller mechs like the Tekkamen or Detonators would logically use artificial muscle, but its never been confirmed.
Outside of anime/ manga, Battletech mechs have been using 'myomer' (which is close to what we have in the real world) for a very long time.
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One example I can think of is in Metal Gear Solid. Most of the body of Metal Gear RAY is constructed out of artificial fibers that contract and move when electricity is applied to them. It even has a blood-like substance flowing through it which is used to repair it's armor.Recon 5 wrote:I haven't seen any other examples of artificial muscle in anime/ manga mechs (besides Gasaraki's Mile One), unless you count the 'mechs' in Utawarerumono (and I'm not sure if theirs are artificial either).
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That's what I was thinking.Albireo_818 wrote:Wasn't Mile One an real muscle cloned from an incomplete DNA strand from the inanimate Kugai that the Gowa Corporation found? Wouldnt that make it actual muscle, not fake?
In one episode one TA literally abosrbs/eats another one to repair itself.
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There are several different kinds of "artificial muscle" types currently in development.
1. Muscle wire - A nickel-tin oxide that will retain "memory" of shape when heated. After it is cooled, the wire will return to it's "memory" shape when heated again regardless of current shape or bending pattern. This heating can be achieved by passing current through the wire and resistively heating. Thus, if a wire is straight when heated, when cooled the wire can be pulled and stretched some and wrapped around bends. When current is passed through, the wire contracts (a la muscle fibers). These would be effectife for hard to replicate joints like shoulders, where the human deltoid and trapezius wraps halfway around the back and is spread out flat instead of rolled into a cylinder. Currently the wires aren't terribly effective in a power to work ratio, but they do work and weigh next to nothing.
2. Polymer flex tubes (Electroactive Polymers) - a bilayer roll of polymers suspended in a electrocytic fluid and wrapped in a flexible outer layer. As the polymers are exposed to an electric field, the polymer roll contracts along the rolled axis (down the center of the roll) which pulls in like a regular muscle. When the field is turned off, the muscle relaxes. To have a joint that moves in both directions, you need opposing joint pairs (like a bicep and a tricep on a normal arm). One contracts to flex the joint, the other contracts to extend the joint. There is promising research in this field, and the actuators are pretty efficient. The drawback is that they are linear muscles, so it is difficult to use them on fully rotatable joints (like necks, shoulders, etc.). This is probably the closest thing to the "fluid passing" artificial muscles, as they are suspended in an electrolytic fluid.
3. Pneumatic cylinders - Basically hydraulics, but use compressed air instead of hydraulic fluid. Not terribly high tech compared to the other two, but they are much lighter than fluid hydraulics. They don't have as much power, though.
1. Muscle wire - A nickel-tin oxide that will retain "memory" of shape when heated. After it is cooled, the wire will return to it's "memory" shape when heated again regardless of current shape or bending pattern. This heating can be achieved by passing current through the wire and resistively heating. Thus, if a wire is straight when heated, when cooled the wire can be pulled and stretched some and wrapped around bends. When current is passed through, the wire contracts (a la muscle fibers). These would be effectife for hard to replicate joints like shoulders, where the human deltoid and trapezius wraps halfway around the back and is spread out flat instead of rolled into a cylinder. Currently the wires aren't terribly effective in a power to work ratio, but they do work and weigh next to nothing.
2. Polymer flex tubes (Electroactive Polymers) - a bilayer roll of polymers suspended in a electrocytic fluid and wrapped in a flexible outer layer. As the polymers are exposed to an electric field, the polymer roll contracts along the rolled axis (down the center of the roll) which pulls in like a regular muscle. When the field is turned off, the muscle relaxes. To have a joint that moves in both directions, you need opposing joint pairs (like a bicep and a tricep on a normal arm). One contracts to flex the joint, the other contracts to extend the joint. There is promising research in this field, and the actuators are pretty efficient. The drawback is that they are linear muscles, so it is difficult to use them on fully rotatable joints (like necks, shoulders, etc.). This is probably the closest thing to the "fluid passing" artificial muscles, as they are suspended in an electrolytic fluid.
3. Pneumatic cylinders - Basically hydraulics, but use compressed air instead of hydraulic fluid. Not terribly high tech compared to the other two, but they are much lighter than fluid hydraulics. They don't have as much power, though.
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having read more of the SciAm issue, and done some more reading online, I am more interested in these artificial muscle technologies than ever. As for the Mile One being sourced from the Kugai, I had completely forgotten. I really need to rewatch Gasaraki.
Muscle wire (AFAIK) is not very useful except for very small and light devices, at least currently. In that usage, it seems to be promising, due to the very light weight and simplicity. Robot bugs for everyone!
If you all don't mind a bit of a thread derail, the TAs from Gasaraki have another design element (well many actually) that I have always liked: they are battery powered. Are there any other (fictional) mecha that are battery powered? Do the Evas count?
Muscle wire (AFAIK) is not very useful except for very small and light devices, at least currently. In that usage, it seems to be promising, due to the very light weight and simplicity. Robot bugs for everyone!
If you all don't mind a bit of a thread derail, the TAs from Gasaraki have another design element (well many actually) that I have always liked: they are battery powered. Are there any other (fictional) mecha that are battery powered? Do the Evas count?
Remember something called SEED?
EVAs are a tough case because although they normally shut down after a certain operating period (apparently through battery drain), they can operate indefinitely once they go berserk. That berserker power has to come from somewhere other than the batteries, so it may be possible that their Angel cores power them under such circumstances.
EVAs are a tough case because although they normally shut down after a certain operating period (apparently through battery drain), they can operate indefinitely once they go berserk. That berserker power has to come from somewhere other than the batteries, so it may be possible that their Angel cores power them under such circumstances.
Or Wing, for that matter (not that MS are battery-op in Wing, just saying).-
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The Evas are fishy as the power supply system behind wasn't fully expanded on - sure, they have batteries to operate on, but on several key events Evas could be seen moving without relying on their internal packs - namely when Eva-01 protected Shinji and Rei from falling overhead lightings or in EoE when Unit 02 got eviscerated. In both cases, both were either offline or powered down, yet could still move about thanks to their 'berserker' mode or on their human souls' impulse.
The Evas can only truly gain omnipotence when they ingest S2 ('Super Solenoid') engines from their angelic opponents - and, no, the round thing on their abdomen is not an S2 complex, it's the Core, which houses the human soul (at least according to official material). SEELE did make it clear, both in the anime and in the manga, that Evas were not meant to develop S2s of their own, which means that they aren't supposed to walk around, at least not unassisted by a power pack or umbilical cable. The only fishy thing in this account, though...is that Eva-02 never forcibly acquired an S2 of its own...
And, last but not least, according to Ritsuko Akagi during the 14th Angel's (Zeruel) attack, the body shroud was actually a restraint device and not an armor shroud as people (NERV bridge bunnies included) were led to believe.
As for another series featuring artificial muscle? The only I can reminisce would be Full Metal Panic! where Arm Slaves are equipped with muscular packages - synthetic polymer stacks mimicking organic muscle tissue to provide more power behind each movement. According to the novels and material lying around, the ASes draw a LOT from biology, especially mechanical joints and muscles. The only drawback, however, was that the packages needed to be re-processed every 24/48 hours, which was quite troublesome. (anyway, the Palladium engine had a similar max. operating time, which meant that the AS would have to shut down at more or less the same moment for maintenance and to cool down)
The Evas can only truly gain omnipotence when they ingest S2 ('Super Solenoid') engines from their angelic opponents - and, no, the round thing on their abdomen is not an S2 complex, it's the Core, which houses the human soul (at least according to official material). SEELE did make it clear, both in the anime and in the manga, that Evas were not meant to develop S2s of their own, which means that they aren't supposed to walk around, at least not unassisted by a power pack or umbilical cable. The only fishy thing in this account, though...is that Eva-02 never forcibly acquired an S2 of its own...
And, last but not least, according to Ritsuko Akagi during the 14th Angel's (Zeruel) attack, the body shroud was actually a restraint device and not an armor shroud as people (NERV bridge bunnies included) were led to believe.
As for another series featuring artificial muscle? The only I can reminisce would be Full Metal Panic! where Arm Slaves are equipped with muscular packages - synthetic polymer stacks mimicking organic muscle tissue to provide more power behind each movement. According to the novels and material lying around, the ASes draw a LOT from biology, especially mechanical joints and muscles. The only drawback, however, was that the packages needed to be re-processed every 24/48 hours, which was quite troublesome. (anyway, the Palladium engine had a similar max. operating time, which meant that the AS would have to shut down at more or less the same moment for maintenance and to cool down)
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I was never sure if those muscles were artificial or "harvested" from the local wildlife like many of the other Aura Battler parts were. But unlike the armor that we know is from some Byston Well animal or another, muscle matter would presumably decay, and actually acquiring muscles this way seems like it would be very delicate. But then again Aura Battlers don't really make a whole lot of sense no matter how you look at them.Kavik Ryx wrote:I know that Aura Battlers used artificial muscles, though then again when you're in Byston Well you know you're not in Kansas anymore.
Though I get hydraulics allow artifical muscles to work in most cases, but how do you go about making them?