Strongest mech in anime?

[Koshernova]

As far as "conventional" giant robots in the real robot genre (if they could be called that), I've never seen anything that approaches the Mortar Headds or the super human Headdliner and Fatima pilots. Macross, Gundam, Evangelion, Patlabor...among them the Mortar Headds have no equal. An average Headdliner and his fatima piloting a run-of the-mill Mortar Headd could take on all the the best mecha piloted by all the ace pilots from Macross, Gundam and Evangelion combined and at the same time. Even if it took days of non-stop fighting the Mortar Headd would prevail easily. But it wouldn't take days; it'd be over in about ten minutes

This isn't surprising. It's in-built in the conception of the FSS universe that the narrative follows an "everything goes" mentality. As such, Nagano is free to overpower his mechs in this fashion, as he's not under constraints to follow rules which limit mechs.

I'd be wary to call the MH "Real Robots". They're only Real Robots within their own fantasy context. By that token, the Guymelefs from Esca are Real Robots since they utilise technology from that fantasy world (in fact, the melefs are probably less magical in their operation than MHs are).

[hitokirigarou]

Sunrise considers Ideon and the mobile fighters from G Gundam to be real robots.

[MrMarch]

This isn't surprising. It's in-built in the conception of the FSS universe that the narrative follows an "everything goes" mentality. As such, Nagano is free to overpower his mechs in this fashion, as he's not under constraints to follow rules which limit mechs.

I'd be wary to call the MH "Real Robots". They're only Real Robots within their own fantasy context. By that token, the Guymelefs from Esca are Real Robots since they utilise technology from that fantasy world (in fact, the melefs are probably less magical in their operation than MHs are).

I'll admit I'm still new to FSS, but from all I've read so far there's no performance issues that would suggest a sudden abandonment of the rules that govern MH tech. Their outrageous potential and subtle spiritual dimension was established from the very first story arc, so unless they're swallowing galaxies and oblitering universes while reciting Neitzsche later in the story, I don't see any reason to reclassify them (unlike, say, Escaflowne, which is all magic with no pretense at science except in a alchemical, Mark Twain-esque sense). Even the planet busting capability of the buster cannon is alluded to at the beginning.

Having said that about the Mortar Headds, I agree one could argue their capabilities approach those of the super robot and so one might be inclined to categorize them as such. Personally, I don't subscribe to that theory, but I can understand it as a mitigating factor. For me, FSS is simply far-future as opposed to contemporary real robot shows like Gundam, Macross and Patlabor which are all near-future. A much greater degree of technological prowess and capability is only to be expected in a far-future setting. And if you want to examine it even more closesly, shows like Gundam and Macross feature more than their fair share of sci-fi tech which one could easily classify as magic.

Nonetheless, it's not like real robot is strictly defined anyway and even it's own birthing anime (Gundam) breaks the rules, often times appearing more super robot than real robot

[Koshernova]

No, you're totally right in your appraisal of it. What I'm saying is that, still in that context, you have to remember the main character in FSS is a God. Nagano says it himself in the intro of the first volume: this is a character that breaks all the literary rules for characters. Amaterasu is an immortal with ludicrous powers, to resurrect, to kill, the Emperor can even become separate, distinct individuals who are all part of one consciousness.

And Nagano is fine with that. What I'm saying is that, if at some point the Machine Messiah, the more powerful, ancient MH, start doing what you describe, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, Divers are there in the FSS universe, and they are, basically, wizards.

[MrMarch]

I'd agree, but really, the MHs and their nature are nearly seperate from that aspect of the story. I mean whether it's Amaterasu the god or Amuro the newtype, the impact of their supernatural powers are really incidental to the robots and the fictional laws that govern them (at least initially). I agree it may be a fine line between the in-universe fiction and the demands of a story in which the supernatural is a "real" element. But again, the difference is all in the presentation.

From a literary stance, is there any difference between a Minovsky Fusion Reactor and Drag Energist (Escaflowne)? Not really, they are both power sources that don't exist but serve an identical function in their respective stories. The only real difference comes in the presentation; science fiction versus fantasy. Going back to FSS, yes Nagano has likened Amatersu to a god, but what choice has he other than to describe him in those terms? Like Nagano writes in the post script, Amaterasu is not a god in the traditional sense, but what other way is there to describe him when his nature as an advanced being places him so far beyond the understanding of our own race? Which goes back to Clarke and his infamous third law "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." In our case, we could paraphrase that to say "Any sufficiently advanced being is indistinguishable from a god."

Wow, I'm surprised I actually made that all understandable! This is a good discussion

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Sunrise considers Ideon and the mobile fighters from G Gundam to be real robots.

I have never seen a company ofiicially state what part of the mecha super genre that the mech production they would be creating would be part of.

Heck, Ideon is definitely no real robot. Potential of destroying the universe? Heck, the Buff clan mechs don't even deserve that treatment.

G Gundam? Even without the Super Attacks, they are all performance wise better than everything else in their series and I even expect the same if they were lobbed in UC or the other AUs. Besides, with the Super attacks, that is Super Robot. Period.

But this is off-topic.

Back on-topic. While TTGL and Ideon are sure up there in power, I'd like to put special notice to Shin Getter, Mazinkaiser, and Genesic GaoGaiGar. Considering all the crap they have, they're definitely up there in the most powerful mech rosters.

[hitokirigarou]

I have never seen a company ofiicially state what part of the mecha super genre that the mech production they would be creating would be part of.

They are in the Sunrise Robots Complete File Volume 1 - Real Robots Version book. ISBN4-8124-0660-9.

[MrMarch]

IMO, even if there were a solid definition of a real robot (which there isn't) there's no way Ideon comes even close to qualifying. Categorizing Ideon as a real robot is like arguing Superman's powers are as plausible as Batman's skills.

[Kuruni]

On that issue, I guess it's because...

1.Buff Clan's Heavy Mecha are clearly Real Robot type.
2.Ideon itself, while incredible powerful, isn't embodiment of justice and such aspect (it's embodiment of fate however, and maybe hatre). Also, other than Ide, it's quite normal mecha. It's quite safe to say it's real robot with powered by infinite energy.

As said, I personaly count Ideon as hybrid and can accept it as real. Though won't argue anyone who count it as super.

[Recon 5]

I think we're missing something here: The strongest mech of all doesn't simply have to have the strongest attack of all, it must be able to use said attack repeatedly (with impunity as well, I might add) and will little ill effect to itself. Sure the Ideon can destroy the universe with one shot, but the fact that it seemingly destroys itself as well (or ascends out of the material plane or something) makes it a lot less impressive in my opinion.

To reiterate, the strongest mech of all must be able to decimate whatever it was built to decimate on a regular basis. Add more points if it needs no maintenance between fights. A mech that can destroy a city/ world/ universe/ whatever at the loss of itself or much of its structure might as well just have an enhanced self- destruct system.

Not intending this to be flame bait, just giving my two cents.

[MrMarch]

I agree that's a reasonable benchmark when first considered, but I think the whole thread implies a one-on-one comparison. In such cases even one-time-only capabilities count for a great deal. There's no way to handicap the super robots by disallowing dues ex machina abilities. They have what they have, even if it's some universe obliterating power that's basically akin to grabbing the game board and throwing the board, pieces and all, into an incinerator

That's why I like the real robot genre. The real robots may be just as fictional but they are described with real scientific units that are universal. If a robot from one anime is 12 meters tall while a robot from another anime is 18 meters tall, there's no debate about which one is larger. Fans can debate the merits of the figures, but at the end of the day its fan speculation against official word, a futile contest which ends with official word. But like I said, with the super robots thrown in for consideration, the real robots are screwed

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Bah, doesn't stop us from classing them as Super Robots.

[supperrfreek]

In gundam, it's a close contest between Freedom and Wing Zero. but when firepower is considered the destroy seems to take the cake.

[Kuruni]

In Gundam, it's tied between Turn A and Turn X, maybe Devil Gundam as well.

[Arsarcana]

I'm with Aegis on this one. You definitely can't use animation advances as a benchmark to compare the speed of mecha by eye alone.

Did someone say G-Savior? I could swear someone did. Taking my MS and making them move like tar. Bah! I rest my case and agree wholeheartedly.

Oh, and since we're talking Gundam, in that metaseries alone I say Turn A/X. Freedom's beam spamming and Zeta's Biosensor won't do much good against technology-eating nanomachines and if you want figures, they provided hypothetical power outputs that put the Turn units waaaay ahead of anything else.

Moving on to Supers, I classify Ideon as one and it's undeniably tops, along with TTGL if it can exist in normal space and everyone knows the rest. I'd stick Xenogears here as well: It channels God's power directly, QED. Plus, on its own it was able to turn deactivated Gears back into Omnigears without the use of the Anima Relics and the Zohar. I'm pretty certain that if given the opportunity it could compete favorably with the other machines mentioned.

[Recon 5]

Speaking of Xenogears, anyone remember Erde Kaiser Sigma from Xenosaga 3? People go on and on about KOS- MOS but its ol' Erde who has the real power.

[quasadra]

aint we should only talk about mech that appear in anime? if not Anubis and Jehuty(speaking of which are these two count as super or real) are on par with any Gundams.

[Aegis]

Anubis and Jehuty, especially in their Auuman and Naked forms respectively, spit all over most, if not all mobile weapons Gundam can toss at them. It's kind of difficult to match a Gundam against machines with highly durable armour that can morph and self repair (as well as show no signs of wear and tear even after descending into a planet's atmosphere at speeds that can cause tsunamis if the machine crashes), capable of storing many weapons in the equivalent of robo-hammerspace to go with their base weapons themselves, or possessing speed and agility that seemingly defies gravity (not to mention capable of exiting an Earth-like atmosphere unassisted). And that's just for your basic, run-of-the-mill Raptor. Adding the twin gods of ZOE like Anubis and Jehuty pretty much puts them on the high end amongst mecha. In spite of all the techno science that is placed on orbital frames, I'd consider them more super than they are real robots.

I'll also mention that given Ideon has unlimited energy through the Ide along with forcefield and firepower pretty much makes it very high even with the deus ex universe killing explosion.

[Duraham]

meh, the Ideon didn't destroy itself, contrary to popular belief.

check out Counterattack of Gigantis. where the Ideon decides to pay a visit to its creations, newtypes, to see if this world is worth it. he decides it is, and leaves for good.

[Wingnut]

meh, the Ideon didn't destroy itself, contrary to popular belief.

check out Counterattack of Gigantis. where the Ideon decides to pay a visit to its creations, newtypes, to see if this world is worth it. he decides it is, and leaves for good.

You should know that is not considered a canon story in either the Ideon or Gundam universe and should not be taken as evidence of what actually happened.