Big question about Gundam's/Mobile suit's cockpits

[ironscythe]

Not quite. Char (And other pilots, such as Jailbait Karn and the Italian Stallion Scirocco Razz) did not wear pilot suits because they felt that even the thin pilot suits would have some negative effect on their piloting skills. The mask is explained in the novels as covering a scar, although I'm not sure if that reason is used in the animated works, or if another one was offered.

Char wasn't covering a scar at all. Char Aznable was covering his face to avoid revealing that he was, in fact, Casvalle Rem Daikun, the son of the late Zeon Zum Daikun (founder of the Republic of Zeon). Though presumed killed along with the rest of his family, the average Zeon citizen would still recognize his face if given a good enough look. There's also the fact that Rear Admiral Kycillia Zabi wore a similar helmet, and she was basically Char's sugar-mama.

[ydawg314]

I laughed because, frankly, I wasn't expecting anyone to actually have gone out and looked this stuff up. I apologize to anyone who doesn't understand that I enjoy mecha anime for what it is and don't care how many Zakus can fit in a Musai.

And no, it doesn't cover all the details. For example, what does it do when you lose a weapon, or there's an apogee motor malfunction? Where's the failsafes? How does one pedal account for all three dimensions of flight in space? Do you push it up and down to go up and down? Side to side for X-axis movement? Again, the nitty-gritty.

This description assumes the "standard" operation proceedure, but doesn't account for occasions that, to be discreet, are "outside the box". Just saying "the computer handles it" isn't a blanket excuse, either. Computers are far from perfect and can be subject to pilot error, thus making it impossible for a MS to function as dynamically as it does. SEED accounts for this by Coordinators manipulating the OS itself on the fly, but that's the only occasion I can recall that accounts for this.

My point being is that this "official" explanation stops halfway. Really, I accept it as a "good enough" explanation, but it doesn't satisfy enough mechanically to be called "the" explaination. I guess we still have some things left up to the imagination and frankly, I like it better that way.

I think that a mobile suit would control more like a first person shooter type video game. This would account for the x y z and axises. For example an xbox game like Halo. The triggers would control the hands or weapons. I was also thinking that maybe pilots would have complex movements programmed into thier computers allowing them to access it easily. Maybe that could develope movements by sparing and stuff so that later all they had to do for example was like press the trigger and the mobile suit would kick or puch depending on where the target is.

[mutantshark]

On the one hand you can always moan that technical aspects of MS operation aren't fully explained. But then I always think how much further Gundam goes in giving a huge ammount of technical background to everything - much more so than most sci-fi/anime - its part of the reason why I love it so much.

[speedstriker]

I haven't played the game myself, but I would really like a person who has played Bonds of teh battlefield have a say in this. Maybe it will clear up a lot of things...

[Koshernova]

Just like CE updates a lot of stuff from the UC setting, I'd say the OS is their more up-to-date response to the AMBAC system.

All I can contribute is that I imagine that some maneouvres, like the famous "Char Kick" can probably be programmed as presets. When tuning his MS, for example, Char can set a number of actions that will, in battle, be performed simply with the push of a button. So, he wants to kick, he gets in range, activates the "kick" macro, if you will, and the MS outsretches a leg, flexes the other, and thrusts forward, thrusting backwards after impact.

Of course, this doesn't explain how, upon getting on the RX-78, Amuro controls the Gundam with such dexterity that it can rip off the "mouth" intake of the Zaku... unless EFF engineers had put that in as a macro (maybe for a laugh?) and he happened to push the right button...

[Lans]

MS PILOT MANUAL
Paraphrased from "Entertainment Bible 1: MS Encylopedia, One Year War Edition"

1. Console Explanation
An introduction establishes that, yes, this is the cockpit of the Gelgoog Jaeger. The images on the four main monitors are derived from the 12 cameras distributed around the mobile suit's body, to present the external world as if you were sitting in its head. (You're warned not to forget to protect the torso, where you're actually sitting.)

The communications monitor on the top console is used to communicate with the deck crew and operators aboard your carrier ship. Thanks to Minovsky interference, you can only get visuals over short distances; after that, it's voice only. Although there's a dedicated rear-view display, you'll get an automatic verbal warning if an enemy gets behind you, and you can then use the controls on the left console to put the rear-view image up on the main monitor.

Most of the mobile suit's critical functions are handled by the control sticks and foot pedals. The sticks control the flight direction, and also house the trigger and weapon selector, while the foot pedals provide throttle and braking functions. Even in combat, most of the mobile suit's functions are computer-controlled; as a result, even a grade-schooler could operate it.

Panel and Console Diagram
A diagram calls out the major controls in the mobile suit cockpit. The diagram is based on the latter-model Zeon cockpit used in Gundam 0080 (and the manual as a whole uses the Gelgoog Jaeger as its example mobile suit). The cockpit consists of a seat and four monitor panels - front, top, left, and right. The front and top monitors sport small control consoles, and the other instruments are built into the seat or its side consoles.

The top monitor console includes two smaller screens - a rear-view monitor and a communications monitor (on the left and right sides respectively). In between are a set of sensor mode selectors.

The front monitor console bears, left to right, generator starter switches; a threat warning panel; and monitor toggle switches.

The left and right armrests of the seat sport almost identical controls. Each side has a sliding control stick - I think the right is for weapons, and the left for steering, but there may be some functional overlap - plus a row of ten buttons for manually activating the apogee motors. The left armrest also sports a throttle lever, which seems to function something like a gear shift for the thrusters. Additional side consoles are attached to the armrests; these contain controls for communications and external monitor modes (on the left), drive/fuel system mode selectors, and warning monitors (on the right). A mysterious "index sub-console" dangles off the right console.

Finally, there are the two foot pedals - brake on the left, throttle on the right. The throttle pedal functions like a car's accelerator. (Note that the upper limit of your thruster output is governed by the throttle lever on the left armrest.)

2. Launch Sequence
When you enter the cockpit, first buckle up your seatbelt! Then turn on the generator (via the front console), check the warning monitors (on the right console), and use the monitor toggles (front console again) to switch to systems check mode. If anything's wrong, holler for the deck crew,

Now you're ready to get on the catapult. Set the drive system mode to "walk" (via the right console) and proceed to the catapult as per your operator's directions, picking up your weapons on the way. Use the throttle pedal to walk forward, the control sticks to turn, and the brake pedal to stop. (I think you're meant to keep the brake pedal down until you're ready to launch.)

Once you're on the catapult, it's time to warm up your thrusters. First set the drive/fuel system mode to "catapult shoot" (right console again), then release the lock on the throttle lever (left armrest) and slide it into "idling" position. Check the warning monitors again, and set the throttle lever to "taxi-ing" position. (This lets you use your thrusters to pick up a little extra speed during launch.)

When your operator gives you the signal, you're clear to launch. Just release the brake pedal, and you'll be shot into space. Using your thrusters as little as possible (to conserve propellant), join your teammates in formation. You can use the index sub-console (attached to the right console) to load pre-programmed mission routes, including your return course at the end of the mission.

Note: From the following chapters I gather that, after launch, the throttle lever position should be set to "idling" - zero thrust - and the drive/fuel system should be set to "cruising" mode, but it's not clearly specified. I guess that's covered in the omitted Chapter 2.5, "Flying in a Straight Line."

3. Combat Sequence
The warning panel (on the front console) will alert you to approaching enemies - in this example, because your mono-eye's infra-red sensors have picked up their thruster flares. Set the sensor mode to "scan" (via the top console), and the mono-eye will automatically seek out enemy targets. As you enter battle, set the drive/fuel system mode to "combat," and crank up the throttle lever for bursts of propellant-burning speed.

Set the combat mode selector on the right control stick to "shooting," and release the trigger lock. A targeting reticule will then appear on your main monitor, while enemy units will be tagged with target symbols. Use the control stick to move the reticule onto the desired target, get a lock-on, and pull the trigger. In close-quarters combat, set the combat mode selector to "melee." Go a few seconds at full throttle - can't waste propellant! - to close the distance, then pull the trigger to swipe with your beam sword.

In the course of this chapter's combat example, there's some discussion of dealing with battle damage. You can use the index sub-console to switch hands, the manual activation buttons will turn red to indicate lost apogee motors, et cetera. Also, as you use up your propellant, you should adjust the throttle lever to reduce your thrust.

Once combat is over, you can return to your mission route. Set the drive/fuel system mode back to "cruising" while you check for damage and glance at your propellant levels. All clear? Set the sensor mode back to "warning" (via the top console), put the throttle lever back into "idling" position, and continue on your course.

4. Escape Sequence
This chapter details the workings of the emergency ejection mechanism, which is activated by opening a box under the seat and pulling on the "escape ring" inside. The mobile suit's chest armor blows off, and then the seat is launched about a quarter of a second later. The seat's rocket motors fire for up to 30 seconds, with a peak acceleration of 16 gees; within five seconds you'll be a kilometer away from the mobile suit, safely clear of the blast radius. (I note that these figures indicate an average acceleration of 8 gees.)

Once you've ejected, you can maneuver the drifting seat with its built-in apogee motors. The life-support systems provide five days' worth of air, and three days' worth of food and water (presumably delivered in-helmet), while a beacon signals to friendly rescuers. Or unfriendly ones - thanks, Antarctic Treaty!

The chapter closes by discussing how the ejection mechanism can be employed in other environments - inside space colonies, on Earth, on the moon, et cetera.

5. Return Sequence
Assuming your mission went well, you now get to return to your carrier ship. Your operator will guide you through the final stage of the approach. Once you reach the ship's hull, turn on your foot magnets, set the throttle lever to "idling," and set your drive/fuel system mode to "walk." Then, once you're safely back in the hangar, switch the drive/fuel system to "maintenance" mode. This will shut down the thrusters, lock all the drive systems, and finally power down the generator. Good job!

Been searching this post for months. Glad that someone actually did save this post. But if I remembered correctly, there supposed to be another brief explanation before the manual. But oh well, I might search it latter since now I know where to look for. A sincere thanks for Deacon Blues.

Just to remind everyone who probably forget that MS did operate like today jet fighter (F-16, F-18, or Su-27). Once in a cockpit and engages into battle, you simply select targets (provided your fighter/MS able detect the incoming target) and after that it's a classic dogfight. Chase the target and try to get a solid lock as to perform a good aim (computerized) into your target. You can see this through "Stardust Memory" and "08th MS Team", in the first one you could see Kou struggle to tail several of his opponents until he get a solid lock. The series also depicted when Kou and Capt. Burning held a combat-sim, for me it's just like Top-Gun. Tailing the target, lock him/her, shoot, and hope for the best.

"Solid Lock" in MS UC'era (they don't usually arm MS with missiles) probably means that the arm and rifle-weapon are in the right position to hole that poor target as indicated by the computer calculation. That calculation is in respect to many factors like range to target, target's now and assumed direction, and own MS direction.

Some things that differs, are the "drive-mode-system" which you can read above for more details. It's basically the system which determined which function the MS serve. Take off mode, normal flight mode, combat mode, melee mode, and landing mode. It won't let you have more control over the MS, but it will make piloting MS more easier. You control stick (either UC 0093's ball, or UC 0083's stick ) won't react much when you're under take off/ landing mode. It will react extremely under combat or melee mode in order to do needed maneuver or evasive action.

As to manual control, we depict Sander using his touch-screen QWERT keyboard on his RX-79 G right cockpit (08th MS Team). I assume that some pre-programed action might imply as a shortcut button. As to grabbing weapon or other object by MS's hand, I assume that they build a supporting OS that capable of measuring object's size and volume and how to grab them. For weapon and shield, they must have some "drivers" as to todays PC Video Card to let the OS know how to operate them and not just grab them.

If you read the above post, it's not THAT hard to control a MS. Most movement is handled by the OS and you could manage specific control over your delicate MS limbs by screen-touch-keyboards or a small joystick (If I'm right, Char has it in his Rick Dias). What bothers me is the walking thing, as I read in the manga (The lost war Chronicle) some Federations greenhorn was scolded for stumbled his GM unit. From what I read, it seems that walking a MS is not really that simple. I always though that walking a MS is just a matter of setting direction and play the throttle while the auto-balance-system handle the rest.


While the famous "Char Kick" and Amuro's behavior

upon getting on the RX-78, Amuro controls the Gundam with such dexterity that it can rip off the "mouth" intake of the Zaku... unless EFF engineers had put that in as a macro (maybe for a laugh?) and he happened to push the right button...

I have no idea. Probably just for the serial entertainment purpose, since anyone who programmed their hokey to do that "zaku mouth ripping technique" must be really mad.

[Lans]

I just talked with a friend who is a helicopter pilot. While he's not a big fan of Gundam but he know the UC series to some extent. From him I realized a serious flaw in my explanations about Mobile Suit control. Here's a list of what I just realized:

1. In space, Mobile Suits does have the ability to hover around just like a normal helicopter in atmospheric flight.

2. Although we seen much of the Top Gun's dog fight in the UC Gundam like the Stardust Memory and Zeta, it's not always occur in battle.

3. Rather than chasing tail, Mobile Suit combat maneuver are more similar to "the dance of death". Both of them dancing around in either a circle or elliptic maneuver (imagine 2 Rome era gladiator dancing around his opponent that also do the same to him, looking for the chance to kill).

It's also happened naturally in games, the phrase"dance of death" itself I took from the Mech-Warrior games. They circling around trying to bust their enemy, speed and aiming ability are the factors. I didn't realized it before since Mech-Warrior is so ground-style while a MS can fly, a least to some extent in space.

The dog fight maneuver is not completely needed and to my judgment it's only occur when one side is running away from his/her opponents, thus one side is chasing another. When his/her opponents decided to fight back, then it's the dance of death again since both sides facing and firing each other around without trying to "chase enemy's tail".

Unlike the nowadays fighter plane, a MS can flip around and face his opponents (just like when someone tap you on the back and instantly you can turn around and face him/her). Fighter plane lacked that ability, even with "thrust vectoring system" like the Su-27 Flanker they still need hundreds of meters to turn around 180 to it's back.

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So, here's my opinion.

In combat with both side, named A and B assailing each other. A is from West and B is from East. When they meet each other in weapon range then there's a chance to kill in several conditions.

Face to face Condition
Condition when both sides meeting up in a collision course. The moment usually end in seconds. Bear in mind that in this conditions each other will see only a portions of their opponent. A will see B's unit head, shoulder and a small portion of the torso and vice versa. Imagine seeing superman that flying into you, you'll see his head, face and his 2 fists only, while the torso is concealed to your sight. The chance to score a shot is higher as distance gets closer and closer.

While a minor change in direction can evade shot, evading is tricky and usually deathly. When A goes chicken and turn away, he'll reveal his unit torso and leg completely making him an ideal target for B. Usually only seasoned pilots who'll take this maneuver, even so most of pilots evade trapped in this situations. It's better to turn around and try to circling your opponents before approaching gun range. In fact since UC 0087 Zeta, it's become more common for both sides to throw some explosives (various MS launch mini missiles or grenades in this conditions) to avoid meeting up head to head.

Dancing Condition
It's more to helicopter fight and not fighter plane since fighter plane must retain it's speed while helicopter and MS (in space) alike can hover around. <= don't ask me why EF Saberfish in space also portrayed like our common F-16 in atmospheric flight, it's probably just because of the propulsion that was designed only to provide thrust to its tail.

In other hand, MS and helicopter can keep up facing (and shooting) each other and moving around each other in a circling maneuver - like a couple dancing each other around. In this conditions it's common to end in a close distance between each other, eventually lead to a melee fight.

When an Apache fought a Hind (without missile since MS also uses beam rifle and not missile), rather than stay put both sides will move around, either right or left and trying to evade the best they can while still facing and shooting their opponent. Fly higher or dive under is also an option. Well, one could stay put while shooting but it's rather stupid and making you easier to hit.

The most thing that different from fighter plane usual dog fight is that in this kind of fight, no one chase each other back/tail. Both side are firing and evading in face to face condition as long as they want to, unlike jet plane which due to "stall speed limitation" can only maintain head to head in a short period of time.

In this case, MS difference from helicopter is the speed and acceleration factors. MS combat occurs in higher speed and with continuous change of pace and direction. MS also have better aiming radius since it's main weapon, beam/bullet rifle is not placed in a fix position.

This condition favor the best man and machine wins - lucky is also a factor but well. One who have better skills, better MS and an opportunity will almost certainly come out a victor. This will end when one side manage to do the kill, or one side call it a day and flee, given that his opponents gave up a chase.

Chase/Escape Condition
If the chase occurs then it's like the common dog fight in a taste, minus the opponent maneuver to bite back or chasing his pursuer's tail.

Following and studying the enemy flight pattern, try to acquire the lock and shoot - hopefully it would score a hit. Not only speed, planing are also the major factors in this condition. One who have the speed may triumph but with poor planing it could turn out to be disastrous. Slower MS can flee in face of faster opponent if he plan his escape well.


Edit: Adding some other ideas and typo.

[Gelmax]

Though the earlier ones probably didn't, at least some mobile suits have at least some manual arm control for close combat purposes (as well for things unrelated to combat), probably by the two horizontal joysticks visible in (for instance) most Gundam 00 mobile suits as well as the Valkyrie in Macross Frontier. All that's really needed to control the arms are two joysticks with a few buttons or something on them - use the joystick to tell the mobile suit where you want the hands to go and the buttons to tell the mobile suit what you want the hands to do, and the mobile suit moves the arms in such a way as to position the hands where you want them. Legs are more difficult, but a complex footpedal system could probably handle ground mobility - keeping in mind that there's more than just "walking" and "running", and that mobile suits probably give as much control over the legs as possible. Even fully automated, though, the pilot has to control the suit carefully, since they don't balance easily. Of course, there are probably slightly different control schemes corresponding to different battlefield situations - for example, in melee ground combat, the controls would be optimized for as precise as possible control over arms and legs, while in ranged combat situation control over the legs and the shield arm would be more automated, allowing the pilot to focus on their weapons and their enemies. Meanwhile, in open space, the controls would be either similar to those of a fighter plane, or giving manual control only over one or two arms while allocating the rest of the controls to handling maneuvering.

Of course, when you throw fixed weapons and other systems into the mix, that's where things really get complex, since the average pilot doesn't have enough limbs to satisfactorily operate both arms, both legs, all weapons besides those held in the hands, and also handle 360-degree navigation using thrusters. Not to mention other functions such as ECM, I-fields, and so forth. This is where automation, macros, and the like really come into play, and where each mobile suit control system gets its uniqueness...although maybe not, since most shows avoid showing the pilot actually operating the mech.

[Recon 5]

They probably have context- sensitive controls, like (surprise, surprise) Gears of War and many modern computer games have right now. For example, if you place your crosshairs on an object while not holding a weapon and pull your primary trigger, the suit's computer might interpret the action as 'pick up object'. Other triggers might be associated with 'punch' (or 'poke' ). Use of pre- programmed action lists also explained why we never see suits perform trivial actions like shrugging, posing (in an out- of- combat context), head scratching or nose picking, aside from FC's Mobile Trace suits.

Combat actions would also be determined by the distance from the target and the weapon being held. Therefore, a suit will not try to fire a beam saber, and will slash instead. With all this in mind, a majority of mobile suit operation (at least that which occurs above waist level) would be just 'point- and- click' or 'point- and- pull- trigger' as far as the pilot is concerned. In fact, from what we see in animation I believe that the suits of most grunt pilots actually have (quite mediocre) auto- target as evidenced by the 'reticule chase' so often shown in animation.

[teslashark]

the federation has a special team for gathering AMBAC data.those data can be used by suit pilots to duck missles,land on moon,etc.thepilot just press some set-up hot keys. but,when that team became newdesides,they planted data bombs to wipe the data.without them,most suits just crash onto he moon,toobsy manual controling to notice incoming fires.

[Lans]

Legs are more difficult, but a complex footpedal system could probably handle ground mobility - keeping in mind that there's more than just "walking" and "running", and that mobile suits probably give as much control over the legs as possible. Even fully automated, though, the pilot has to control the suit carefully, since they don't balance easily. Of course, there are probably slightly different control schemes corresponding to different battlefield situations - for example, in melee ground combat, the controls would be optimized for as precise as possible control over arms and legs, while in ranged combat situation control over the legs and the shield arm would be more automated, allowing the pilot to focus on their weapons and their enemies. Meanwhile, in open space, the controls would be either similar to those of a fighter plane, or giving manual control only over one or two arms while allocating the rest of the controls to handling maneuvering.

I disagree with this part. IMO, even in several MS modes, which are take off, landing, combat and cruise; MS control is still the same. The footpedal seems to function yaw movement (right/left just like our A and D movement in Counter Strike game) like todays aircraft. MS speed is controlled via the main lever, forward to increase throttle/ speed and backward to decrease it.

While some move could be pre-programmed into the hotkey, control over specific limb isn't exist. It's just too complex to handle and it's pretty much useless. We don't want to control right MS arm to the right, up or down, we need it to follow locked enemy movements and shot. We also don't want to control MS left arm left and right, we need it only to shield us against frontal or detected attack.

Every machine is designed to be as easy to be operated as possible. So why don't make it simple? For combat vehicle and MS alike they make it as simple as can be. Selecting target and let MS right arm to follow and acquire a lock over target automatically. In this case, you only need the targeting and fire button since it's the pilot who decide to fire or not. It's the same with shield, any detected attack or any expected frontal attack can be blocked with a single button. I personally don't bother how the left MS arm will move to block.

From what I watched and know about UC Gundam era MS, manual control via main controlling devices over the arm and leg doesn't exist. Forget the kicking and punching scene, most of them are happened in melee fight and the pilot have no control over how the kick and punch are done. They only need to execute the "attack" button for melee. Stardust Memory 0083 picturing various MS have multiple buttons in their main control lever. I assume that most of them are attack button for main weapon (beam/bullet rifle), vulcan, melee beam saber, and melee non-beam saber. There's 2 or 3 buttons more for hotkeys and blocking.

I also thinks that the right main lever buttons assigned to attack and blocking functions, while the left lever buttons handling manual control over various thrusters that may be needed to perform emergency movement (evading attacks). UC era MS while retain a humanoid form, it can't be controlled like a human. It may be unbelievable due to some action scene on the series, but the pilot can only control the MS mainly for changing directions, maneuver, speed/ acceleration, attack and block. But that control already covers what the MS is intended to perform, which is to be able to attack, destroy, and survive in the process.

In short, it seems there's no manual control over MS limb - at least not placed in main control. Pilot can access to that kind of control through keyboard (probably touch-screen) and need to programmed it to the hotkey in order to do certain movement.

the federation has a special team for gathering AMBAC data.those data can be used by suit pilots to duck missles,land on moon,etc.thepilot just press some set-up hot keys. but,when that team became newdesides,they planted data bombs to wipe the data.without them,most suits just crash onto he moon,toobsy manual controling to notice incoming fires.

I don't really know about this. You maybe refering to Gundam Sentinel since you bring up "newdesides". Evading a missiles by simply pressing a button to perform some programmed maneuvers is somewhat hard to believe. Perhaps you're talking about chaff and flare? or maybe some Newtype-thing-device?

I also don't understand about that "landing on the moon" part. I never knew that landing on moon is that difficult. Landing on earth is even more difficult and is achievable by MS, in UC 0087 AEUG attacked Jaburo from space directly and landed safely using parachute. Even a Zaku is able to land on moon, on Stardust Memory 0083 Cima Garahau ordered a Zaku to land and fight over the moon. The GP01 also did the same. Back to 0087, Cammile and Quatro Bajina even landed in a giant meteorite and fight some Titans in the process.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, it just that this is a different matter.

Mod Edit (Red): Different matter doesn't matter, please don't double post when an edit is just as easy.

[Gelmax]

You typed a lot there, but pilots have to have manual control over their mobile suit's limbs. Your explanation is fine for ranged battles, and in fact matches mine for ranged battles, but melee combat is the main focus of Gundam and there are several known instances of pilots controlling their mobile suits manually, as well as many more that can be guessed at. Simple is fine, but mobile suits are anything but simple and they're pretty complicated to pilot - even in the many instances in UC when people couldn't find a real pilot for their mobile suit, the civilian who ended up piloting it usually had some knowledge of engineering and mobile suits or other complex machines. Additionally, other pilots can usually tell when someone's piloting a mobile suit for the first time - but if suit control is mostly automatic, there wouldn't be any clumsiness or anything and the only sign would be very slow reactions on the part of the mobile suit and much hesitation (as the new pilot searched for the right button), which isn't usually apparent.

There are far too many custom actions that have been pulled off in melee combat that are not repeated enough to be preprogrammed, or have too much variation in them to be executed with a single button push. For example, in 08th MS Team, the Gundam Ez8 rips off its left arm and uses it as a club, and the pilot was not NEARLY pessimistic enough to consider a "rip off your mobile suit's limb" button to be an efficient use for a hotkey. Earlier in the same episode, it reaches slowly and hesitantly for a clip of ammo, inching toward the clip while watching the enemy - if reloading was a one-button affair, it would've been quick and methodical, and he pilot would've had his finger on whatever button he needed to push to abort the reload. There are also, of course, constant scenes of mobile suits grabbing extremely specific things, such as cockpit hatches or large floating pieces of debris - would the Ball have had a specific button for grabbing a floating piece of metal and holding it in front as a shield, as Shiro Amada did in the first episode of 08th MS Team?

Additionally, some other Gundam series come right out and say it - in Gundam Wing, for instance, it's made quite clear when Heero pilots the Heavyarms that control over the suit's limbs is rather direct.

[Recon 5]

The fact remains that nothing short of a glove- type (or waldo) or Mobile Trace suit will allow a pilot to control a mech's hands with the same precision as a computer, and we never (outside of the MT system) see anything even resembling control gloves in mobile suit cockpits. Therefore, we can only assume that mobile suit computers are super intelligent and can interpret contexts precisely enough to execute specific actions with simple controls (e.g. one button press or one trigger pull).

Each action does not need to be assigned to a specific hotkey, with a comprehensive enough context evaluation system all possible actions that a mech may need to perform can be tied to the two control sliders that we so often see in mobile suit cockpits.

I quote my earlier post:
They probably have context- sensitive controls, like (surprise, surprise) Gears of War and many modern computer games have right now. For example, if you place your crosshairs on an object while not holding a weapon and pull your primary trigger, the suit's computer might interpret the action as 'pick up object'. Other triggers might be associated with 'punch' (or 'poke' ). Use of pre- programmed action lists also explained why we never see suits perform trivial actions like shrugging, posing (in an out- of- combat context), head scratching or nose picking, aside from FC's Mobile Trace suits.

Combat actions would also be determined by the distance from the target and the weapon being held. Therefore, a suit will not try to fire a beam saber, and will slash instead. With all this in mind, a majority of mobile suit operation (at least that which occurs above waist level) would be just 'point- and- click' or 'point- and- pull- trigger' as far as the pilot is concerned. In fact, from what we see in animation I believe that the suits of most grunt pilots actually have (quite mediocre) auto- target as evidenced by the 'reticule chase' so often shown in animation.

[Lans]

@Recon5, I agree with you from the start although I'm not so optimistic about riding a MS being that easy.

@Gelmax, no offense bro.

Gelmax, since you post it twice about manual control over the MS limb, then perhaps you could provide some info about it. Provided with standard cockpit in UC Gundam era (two handles with multiple buttons and so on), how could a pilot perform manual control over the hand in melee fight? I don't see enough controlling devices for such movement (moving arm to various direction, thrusting, or stabbing high/mid/low).

Picture taken from 0083 Stardust Memory, showing the main control lever with multiple buttons. I really don't believe that that lever and button can perform true manual control for various, complex and delicate arm movement, especially for melee fight. If that lever was a joystick like F-16 control stick, then I would believe that a direct manual control over arm is possible.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc13 ... _SCN-0.jpg

Showing Keith's GM's Cockpit. Well as you can see there's nothing that can be identified as controlling devices for manually controlling particular MS arm or leg, there's only that main levers which was pictured above.
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I already explained my assumption about the grabbing process in above post. From what I lead to believe, the MS is already inputted by some degree of database of various objects, the computer itself is able to calculate objects by size, length and volume. If the pilot target an object and order the MS to grab it, the MS instantly identify the object and performing the best way to grab it. Not only to grab, but also to use or wield it if the object is a known weapon for the MS. Various hanger scene also picturing this kind of control. Once in Zeta Gundam, Cammile was absent minded and forget to target the his shield. The MK II instead of grabbing the shield, it only reaching for it and not grab it.

I think that the reloading pause in 08MS team is just a matter of pilot decision. The reloading is still a matter of single button function. But why Shiro stop his action and starting to buying time is a simple poker face action. Even if he can easily reload his ammo, but his action will take up some time and it was his disadvantage, nobody sane would reload his gun in front of his enemy. He just buying time and trying to execute his reload slowly while maintaining his poker face. <- Personally, I do believe that the EZ8's arm stopping and pausing half way from reaching his spare clip is intended for movie purpose, although one of my friend told me that the reloading process could be done by holding the command button until the reloading finish - like some reloading in some FPS game that need the player to hold the mouse button until the process finish.

On the other hand, if reloading is a matter of manual control then every pilot should be able to perform precise and delicate movement to inch level with his MS arm. Think of M-16 and it's clip, the clip won't fit in into the rifle if you put in astray for even 5mm. Taking a spare clip at that size and putting it into the "ammo clip slot" in lower body of the MS gun is really tricky if not completely impossible with manual control. If that's the case we should see many greenhorn MS pilot do error when loading his weapon, like ending up throwing his spare clip or jamming his gun in the process.

And also if my memory serve me right, even in 08MS team the cockpit screen never shows it's own limb - hand or weapon alike. So how in earth the pilot could perform reloading without being able to see the object properly? <- someone please check this out and tell me if it's wrong, I just realized it this time.

I agree that my explanation also failed to answer how in earth, Shiro was able to rip off his Ez8 arm and threw it at Leva. I assume that Shiro wasn't crazy enough to hotkey that kind of movement, and there must be some sort of safety program to ensure that the MS won't damage itself. In that case there must be some kind of manual control over MS, but how - there's really no satisfactionary answer to that question yet.

Simple is fine, but mobile suits are anything but simple and they're pretty complicated to pilot - even in the many instances in UC when people couldn't find a real pilot for their mobile suit, the civilian who ended up piloting it usually had some knowledge of engineering and mobile suits or other complex machines. Additionally, other pilots can usually tell when someone's piloting a mobile suit for the first time - but if suit control is mostly automatic, there wouldn't be any clumsiness or anything and the only sign would be very slow reactions on the part of the mobile suit and much hesitation (as the new pilot searched for the right button), which isn't usually apparent.

I also want to argue above quote. Today automobiles have automatic gear shifting, to drive a car we use steering wheel and 2 foot pedals for accelerate and brake, that's all. But anyone can see inexperienced driver in the road, act and drive differently from experienced driver. That's the matter with three controlling devices (wheel, brake, and accelerate), how about MS that has various controlling devices, surely experienced pilot can see who's the greenhorn and who's aces by MS movements, maneuvers, reaction, and many more factors.

Let's do some digging. In 0083 Stardust Memory (1st & 2nd Episodes), Gato easily knew Kou's greenhorn ability since Kou was easily distracted by vulcan shots and he easily losing sights of his opponents, making his unit facing wrong direction from his attacker. But Kou didn't make any clumsiness in the melee fights - showing that the beam saber attack control must be done automaticly since Kou was riding GP01 the first time and he got less than 10 minute in the cockpit before the fight.

Gato knew Kou's ability not from clumsiness in MS movement since Kou drew the beam saber perfectly, he done fine block with beam saber, he also slash and thrust well, he even challenge Gato by jumping above and blocking Gato's unit; what make him looked like greenhorn is the way he react to attacks. He didn't return the attack blow, he even step back without trying to keep his distance and attack range, making anyone know that he's a rookie. Anyway, I can't figure how's he could done and survive melee fights in a very different unit from Zaku to Gundam (Kou was trained with Zaku unit) if the control was done manually.

[crashlegacy14]

to throw in my own,

in Zeta - I believe in episode 2, Kamile wasn't identified as a greenhorn or even a kid piloting the MKII until his voice was heard. he already knew how to pilot the MKII (from data he stole from his father the designer) and he was extemely agressive.

more recently in gundam 00, ghram was able to tell that exia's pilot was "young" in their first encounter, though to be honest I'm not sure why. Exia never displayed any noobish manuvers, expect for swinging the gn long blade at ghram's flag when the flag could easily dodge it. and we know that it's pilot is combat trained and to a point seasoned from battle. so how is it that he was recognized so readily. (for that matter I'm wonder about half of the comment made about the pilots capabilities in the series.)

[Sean_ODuibher]

My comment is related to the practicality of a purely manual, even mostly manual system. First of all, the absolutely massive number of positions that would have to be controlled would be impossible. From what I've seen, mobile suits appear to have the same axises of rotation of human beings, which means a crap load.

Beyond, that if the fight is going on in space, balance wouldn't matter, per se. Equalizing limb distance or even changing it to manipulate rotational movement might be helpful. Actually, this is kind of a knock on automated systems. In order for a computer to respond and "balance" the system in space, it would need gyroscopes in nearly every part of the MS to detect the relative movement of each part to stabilize movement. On the other hand, that would be just about impossible without a computer.

Also, I seem to recall, at least in C.E., the term "neuro-link" or something thrown around, adding credence to the direct or partial neural input theory. All in all, the pilot system just doesn't seem very efficient. The waldo type controls of FMP Arm-Slaves or Appleseed landmates seem way more practical. But if we just think about it for a second, physical manipulation period could be very dangerous for a pilot. The massive G-forces that have to come along with the rapidly turning and accelerating dog fights we see in the series have to make physical movement damned hard. Ugh... Perhaps it is best to chalk it up to being fiction, as the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that a Gundam in real life would be inoperable and the pilot would end up a pile of goo from all of the ridiculous spins and turns.

Also, I was just thinking, has anyone noticed how the Gundam's head tracks along with the pilots? I've seen this a couple of times, mostly out of combat, and it struck me as odd. I guess it would have to be a helmet tracking system or some kind of eye tracking camera inside the cockpit, but shouldn't that mean the head would start twitching if the pilot was reading something?

[Gelmax]

There aren't actually that many positions, once you simplify things properly and eliminate things that are irrelevant or don't need to be controlled directly. The most important things for MS control are the position of the hands and the position of the feet. It doesn't really matter most of the time exactly how the shoulder and elbow joints move or where the arm is, as long as the hand on the end of that arm is where you want it to be, so one could easily control a mobile suit by giving the pilot control over the very end of each limb and letting the suit's computer move the joints in the rest of the limb to position the end according to the pilot's input. And in the rare instance where you need the rest of the arm to be in a certain position (only case I can think of is if you want to elbow something), an experienced pilot should understand where to put the hand to accomplish that arm position. The same thing should be possible with the feet as well, but it's rather unwise to make leg control that manual, I think.

As for G-forces, I think most Gundam series with a lot of high-speed flight take that into consideration - when a pilot gets an especially fast suit, especially in the alternate universes (such as the Tallgeese in Wing, and the Custom Flag in 00) the strain that suit places on the pilot is usually emphasized until he's won a couple of battles with it, after which the pilot is assumed to have gotten used to it. There also might be technologies in some Gundam universes that reduce the effect of G-forces on pilots.

As for the head, it doesn't track the pilot's head movements - it looks in the direction that the pilot is looking in. As such, it wouldn't move for every head movement, but only when the pilot wants to see the stuff outside the suit in a different direction. Presumably it's to make sure the pilot sees the best image possible, since the mobile suit usually has the most cameras and other sensors on the front of the head and the view in the direction the head is pointing would presumably be the most detailed. That might even be manually operated (and the pilot just not shown operating it), though, since it rarely happens; if it's automatic, there's probably a head gesture, or else the system can tell the difference between looking around inside the cockpit and glancing over your shoulder to see what's behind the mobile suit (not actually that difficult). I doubt it's automatic, though, because if they have the technology to track head movements then they ought to be able to make special gloves for controlling hand movements directly. Just because you CAN control the suit with a couple of joysticks well enough to pull off the kind of melee moves often exhibited by the shows doesn't mean it's a GOOD IDEA.

[Sean_ODuibher]

The thought about using the suit's hand position to control other degrees of movement is pretty cool. But the point I was making about g-forces is just that even if the system was typically manual, you would need lots of automation to keep it survivable. While you can get "used" to high speed, high acceleration flight in one direction after a while, the problem is that all of the shows have gundams doing these insane flips and barrel rolls, with thrusters going at max. Dealing with 5 g's head on is different from dealing with a 5 g turn. Even if there are more advanced pressure suits or theres a Coordinator or something and you don't get an up and up black-out, the simple physics of your circulatory system means you are going to have piss-poor brain function during and immediately after the turn. And they do these turns repeatedly. So unless there is some magical and unmentioned device that acts as an inertial dampener or something a suit by rights would be very vulnerable after a high speed turn. I think people forget that when an MS has its thrusters going at max in space, it has a very different effect than on earth, where it needs to stay airborne. But I'm inclined to think there is some inertial dampener because, in the ships, people don't fly back against the bulkheads whenever the main engines light off.

And if they head/sight tracking thing isn't automatic, then it's not very useful. You would need the ability to adjust and refine your viewpoint the most during conflict, and the pilot would be way to busy with the other controls surviving to manually adjust viewpoint with any sort of useful consistency.

[Lans]

Not really sure about this but the device is not entirely new, in fact in the real world they (US and Russia) made better instrument.

Their version even more sophisticated, the helmet they build can track what the eyes focus on the HUD (head up display) and put in into a target bracket. It’s really useful when bombing or attacking a particular object that surrounded various other objects, like bombing bridge. With this, the pilot simply focuses his eye sight into the section of the bridge he wants to attack and second latter the computer will put it as the selected target.

Bear in mind that the pilot must select the activation of this device and he must hold his eyesight for several seconds until the computer recognize the target. This process also prevents the computer to select unwanted target.

The UC Gundam era probably used older version of this devices since I never seen MS pilot locking on target with eye sights only. They probably synchronize the helmet and the head MS unit although as Gelmax already pointed out, the head may move awkwardly when the pilot read or make any unintended head gestures.

The MS head unit will also move if the pilot select a target. It’s really make sense that the head will follow and track the selected target to acquire identification of the target or maybe the calculation needed for aiming purpose.

In the meanwhile, nobody seems to realize that most MS that don’t have the "joystick kind of control" is lacking the ability to do basic maneuver like turning left/right or turning up/down. Other than the main levers in the cockpit which probably only control throttle to move the MS forward or backward, we known very few about how to execute another maneuver.

While the entertainment bible 1 as in the long quote above said that the foot pedals function are to accelerate or brake, I identify is as the common airplane yaw pedals which function to turning the craft left or right horizontally. But other than that I unsuccessfully find other instrument to control other basic flight movement, like how to move up or down.

[mcred23]

They probably synchronize the helmet and the head MS unit although as Gelmax already pointed out, the head may move awkwardly when the pilot read or make any unintended head gestures.

The MS head unit will also move if the pilot select a target. It’s really make sense that the head will follow and track the selected target to acquire identification of the target or maybe the calculation needed for aiming purpose.

There is also the fact that the animation pretty much shows this isn't the case, as there are countless times where the pilot of a mobile suit doesn't have a helmet and their aiming is in no way affected (Look at cases such as Char, Haman, or the 08th MS Team's pilots), nor is anything special done. There is also nothing to really support that the MS' head somehow moves along with the pilot's head, as I can't really recall an instance where we see such a thing (At least in any of the UC shows).