Mobile suits/ tanks versus infantry in Gundam

[ZeonfromHell]

But then you'd be breaking the Antarctic Treaty and would be a war criminal, since nukes are a no-no well before Zeon MS and EFF Infantry ever fought each other on Earth.

That didn't stop M'quve. What kind of "Federal Justice" would he have dealt with if he survived through the end of the war?

[Ascension]

Ask the movie trilogy. In movie continuity, he survives!

[Nagato21]

If I remember Federation tanks did do a lot of damageand I think some of them had upgraded cannons from 130mm to 150mm(not exactly sure) but only against the Zakus by using superior numbers and from a distance. A good example is the battle for Odessa, of course they was a couple of GM mass produce and Guntanks in the fray.
One question do you think Hover tanks have a chance against Mobile Suit?

[mcred23]

If I remember Federation tanks did do a lot of damageand I think some of them had upgraded cannons from 130mm to 150mm(not exactly sure)

The basic Federation Type 61 already had twin 150mm cannons as it's standard weapon, no need to upgrade them.

but only against the Zakus by using superior numbers and from a distance.

Something like that, the Federation Army did require lots of tanks.

A good example is the battle for Odessa, of course they was a couple of GM mass produce and Guntanks in the fray.

Not really. The Federation deployed all of 30 MS at Odessa (With only 15 getting into actual combat), and they did next to nothing (IIRC, they made a total of four MS and 22 tank kills, for unknown losses). Odessa was more a mix of sheer numbers of Type 61s and the EFAF owning the skys.

One question do you think Hover tanks have a chance against Mobile Suit?

Maybe, although thats a whole other series of questions and I'd still rather stick with the tried, true, and somewhat effective Type 61 (Or, better yet, a GM and the EFAF ).

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Ok. This may sound off-topic, but,

How would Migs and F-22s (As well as other fighter jets) fair in the Gundam universe. (Lets consider situations with and without stuff like Minovsky Particles.)

[Nagato21]

Simple Mobile Suit would have no chance whatsoever assuming there are no Minovsky particle.
Its a universale rule in Real Mecha series that Mechas have low chances of survival against fighters and MS are no exception b/c they are too big and can be shot miles away before they detect the enemy especially against advance fighters like the F22 who are stealthy.

[mcred23]

Without Minovsky Particles, fighters like the F-22 would be just as effective as they would be today, as they'd have full use of all the technology, weapons and advanatges that make them so effective and feared.

With Minovsky Particles, the F-22 borders on useless. It's stealth means nothing, since radar is useless, and that one of it's biggest advantages taken away from it. However, it's performance would make it a useful machine, particularly in air-to-air battles, but it still wouldn't be as effective as it would be in the modern world as many of it's key advantages (The stealth, advanced weapons, etc) are useless thanks to Minovsky Particles.

[AU_Gundam MK II]

I don't really feel that sure. Full flight capable MS with a good amount of speed in my opinion can take stuff like fighters down. I also doubt that they would stand up to, well, the AUs.

And what about transforming MS?

Also shouldn't advancements in armor technology be taken into account? (In short, are you trying to say that a a Core Fighter is better than an MS?)

I'd also like some evaluation on this post from somwhere:

Oh, it's on now. First off, give me some proof. A damn Zaku only has a high caliber machinegun, some hand grenades, and a freakin axe. At best, it's maximum effective range is a few miles.

With an F-22 armed with 1000 pound GPS/Laser guided bombs, it can strike a devastating blow to such a massive target as the pig like Zaku from 10,000 feet or more with ruthless accuracy and destrictive potential. And that's with an old bomb that's been around for about 15 years. Don't even get me started on the potential of a strike package armed with AGM-65 Mavericks.

Mobile suits are only 'effective' because of their reliance on magical jamming particals, be them minovsky or these new super-sparkles in 00. Against an active or semi-active radar guided weapon, sure, okay, you have the upper hand. However, most air to ground weapons are infrared, laser or inertially guided, which aren't so easilly fooled. Furthermore, modern fighters strike their targets at ranges of above ten miles away, far beyond the range of any anti-aircraft cannon. Missiles are the only threat, but wait, Zakus don't have missiles! Much less ones capable of striking a fighter sized target at +10 miles.

As much as it pains me to say it, close combat is over. The real power lies in standoff strike capability. Now, if someone asked ME to design an effective mobile suit... that would be another story. And I wouldn't even have to use magic.

00, thus far, is a huge disappointment. It's overly obvious that the creators haven't a clue how things work in the real world, so it's hard to respect their designs. All they are there for is to sell model kits to uninformed people who think they are 'cool'. It's a huge scam, made apparent by the fact that there were already model kits before the series even aired. It's like there saying "you'll like what we tell you to like because we own the name 'Gundam', so shut up and buy our product, so we can live in big houses and drive expensive cars without ACTUALLY having to make anything good." Forgive me for not willingly being a sheeple.

And SEED was far more realistic, and I don't care how much you flame me over that statement, it's still true. I know SEED was much the same as 00 in terms of marketing, but at least they waited until it had gotten popular before they really started taking advantage of it.

And, because this is way off topic, I'll say that I still think Dynames is the 'best' because history has shown us that BVR capability = win.

EDIT: Oh, and I gotta say I am ill impressed with Kyrios's strike capability. It has, at best, the capability of 2 F-15E Strike Eagles. In 300 years time that's the best they can do? Give me a B-1B Lancer loaded to the teeth with Mk-82HD Snakeeyes and I'll show you what destruction really is.

[Nagato21]

Like I said before Mechas have low rate of survival against advance fighters but it also depend on the design and role. I think fighters are better than MS. But if Mobile suit/Mecha is equip with advance ECMs and ECCM along with precision weaponry then it becomes a devastating machine. It seems that the author of that post hasn't taken into account that Mobile suit where created to work in an era where advance electronic weapons that relies on radar and sattelites have become useless leading to a more primitive method of warfare; yet the MS is an advance machine design to evolve into a primitive battlefield. Unlike MS from UC, the Excia is design to render modern weapon and technology useless b/c of its GN particle; but the same philosophy is here.
As for transforming mode it is usely design to provide more firepower or act as tranportation method but not to act as a fighter. The Zeta was given a transform mode in order to serve as multirole unit but is not in essence a fighter it might be able to engage in a dogfight but dogfighting is not enough in an air battle.

[J-Lead]

Reality VS mecha anime is a discussion we don't like to bring up here, and I suggest that you stop your inquiry there. It's a incredibly stupid discussion, and it more often than not gets a topic locked up faster than a pedophile after a cameo in Kid Nation. I will tell you, however, that he's both right and wrong. Most mecha rely on quasi science and wacky battle circumstances to work themselves into the equation, but putting them out of universe where they no longer have any reason to exist is preposterous, even stupid. I wish people would stop doing that...

Although I kinda had a short seizure when he used the term "realistic" and "Gundam SEED" in the same sentence, claimed it was unargueably true, then called out 00 for being there "only to sell model kits." I don't follow his logic there at all; it's as if he stopped knowing what he was talking about mid-post.

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Well, as a certain guy pointed out, Mechs aren't a truly realistic concept. My teacher said something about the US Military proposing the use of Mobil Humanoid Weapons and the idea was turned down because the design and idea would be too unbalanced. Goes to show that the most realism we'll ever get out of Mech shows is conventional weaponry, realistic weight averages thanks to the non-presence of a movable frame, paper armor, and sometimes, PLAIN DESIGN!

Quote from a different post:

o.O Your looking for practicality in Gundam? A giant robot cartoon? There's an old theme we follow at Mechatalk: "Giant robots ARE impractical, no matter how much they relate to real-world science, so stop trying to prove otherwise, and just enjoy the damn anime." That actually became an unwritten rule because so many people were trying to point out that "Mobile suits would work just dandy in the real world." I'd expand on that with referances, but that debate has gotten so redundant, I hope to never speak of it again. On that note, the "impracticality" of the Gundams is nothing new; it's been around since the first series.



Anywho, onto another question. Does having ten RPGs being shot at a Dom=destruction or just some damage?

[J-Lead]

Well, as a certain guy pointed out, Mechs aren't a truly realistic concept. My teacher said something about the US Military proposing the use of Mobil Humanoid Weapons and the idea was turned down because the design and idea would be too unbalanced. Goes to show that the most realism we'll ever get out of Mech shows is conventional weaponry, realistic weight averages thanks to the non-presence of a movable frame, paper armor, and sometimes, PLAIN DESIGN!

Quote from a different post:

o.O Your looking for practicality in Gundam? A giant robot cartoon? There's an old theme we follow at Mechatalk: "Giant robots ARE impractical, no matter how much they relate to real-world science, so stop trying to prove otherwise, and just enjoy the damn anime." That actually became an unwritten (written now, actually) rule because so many people were trying to point out that "Mobile suits would work just dandy in the real world." I'd expand on that with referances, but that debate has gotten so redundant, I hope to never speak of it again. On that note, the "impracticality" of the Gundams is nothing new; it's been around since the first series.

[/i]

Anywho, onto another question. Does having ten RPGs being shot at a Dom=destruction or just some damage?

...Do you realize you just quoted me at the Gamespot Gundam and Mecha Union? O.O

...What can I say, the guy was going on too long about the "super practicality-ness" of UC and bashing the hell out of everything else (specifically 00,) so I got annoyed and kinda...went off the hook. I wasn't in my right state of mind when I wrote that, so yeah, just...disreguard it...

As for the RPG question, I suppose that would depend on where it hits.

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Guess I know who you are now in here.

[Nagato21]

True Mecha are unrealistic and there is no need to plunge ourselves into a debate like that but I was just trying point about the weakness of a MS without Minovsky.

[mcred23]

Indeed, lets not go any further on that whole off topic binge of "Modern War Machines vs MS Under Modern Conditions". It's been done, to death, and always ends the exact same way; Modern technology always wins.