What do you think is the most "Real Robot"-Esque M

[Recon 5]

Speaking specifically about the BT- verse, the 31st century is still a LOOONG way off. 1000+ years! Imagine that! In less than half that time mankind went from using pure muscle power (with a bit of wind and water thrown in) to the fission power we have today. 1000 years is enough time for humanity to transform itself into something we wouldn't even recognize. There's a reason most sci- fi animes are set far into the future, you know.

Anyway, speaking of steam- powered mechs, don't the Kobu in Sakura Wars count?

[PhantomBread]

Chromehounds is the best depiction of 'real' robots I've ever seen, honostly, followed maybe by Steel Battalion

[Kavik Ryx]

This might be me, but when a mech is clunky, cumbersome, and whatnot, it may be more real, but far from realistic. It's one thing when one will fall down a lot and require maintenance, but when they become more of a burden, can you actually see them being used?

[Aegis]

I agree with many that Patlabor is probably closest to a likely/realistic use for giant robots, both in concept and execution. I also think other shows like Ghost in the Shell represent mecha in a more plausible way, especially the Think Tanks. I can see robotics first used in military materiel as some sort of hybrid system between current machines like tanks and bidpedal mecha. The multi-legged tanks in Patlabor and the Think Tanks in Ghost in the Shell seem most realistic as the next practical step for war machines.

You practically read my mind right there. o.O I haven't seen VOTOMS as of yet beyond the basic background information I read, but the labors in Patlabor definitely have one of the more plausible backgrounds and designs in all of mecha in general, especially one as down to earth as the Ingram. Labors that do possess some sort of flight capability are not only extremely rare but are also capable of 'flight' in limited durations. Ghost in the Shell and their multi-legged tanks also came to mind as well just for the fact that they walk with... well... more than two legs.

My personal favourites mechas in general that are close to being realistic? Shagohad and Metal Gear REX come to mind. Once you hit MGS2 and MGS4 territory, that's when technology starts to get a little more bizarre.

[Recon 5]

Well, the one thing thats always bothered me about Patlabor is the fact that they can get mech OSes to fit on... FLOPPIES! We have trouble getting relatively simple things like a PC OS to fit on multiple CDs and they can fit something so much more complicated on a SINGLE 3.5". Whats their secret?

Has that changed in WXIII? I only saw the first 2 movies so I don't know.

[quasadra]

real robots eh... i think wanzers is the closest match. its deploy along side MBTs and gunships. its part of the battle plan rather than a weapon to win all battle. and a gunship will own you if you dont have the right weapon. take the op of Front Mission 4, you will see what i mean.

i believe a mech or robots is most effective in urban warfare. MBTs and gunships have ruled the open field. MBTs main gun is not effective in confined area and there are plenty of place to hide from a gunship in the city. mech can be made more responsive than tanks.

well its just my humble opinion. if i sound stupid, just ignore me.

[MrMarch]

An interesting note, a multinational 10 billion dollar experimental fusion project is being enacted right now in France. It isn't the current feasibility of the technology, but the future that is amazing. Suppose we can create fusion plants but don't have the ability to miniaturize the devices, well the next step would be to create incredibly efficient storage devices (super batteries) that could supplant the use of liquid fuel.

It may. And more importantly, it also may not. Point being supposition based on a technology we don't even have yet is beyond reason. This is all guess work at best and the more people try to link the magic of these sci-fi shows to what might be possible, the more liberal the leaps are beyond any kind of plausible reasoning. Thus we're back where we started.

Speaking specifically about the BT- verse, the 31st century is still a LOOONG way off. 1000+ years! Imagine that! In less than half that time mankind went from using pure muscle power (with a bit of wind and water thrown in) to the fission power we have today. 1000 years is enough time for humanity to transform itself into something we wouldn't even recognize. There's a reason most sci- fi animes are set far into the future, you know.

Yes, and even flying around the universe like the Star Child is conceivable in a thousand years. The only problem is, it's not probable and it may never happen even in 10,000 years. Some technologies simply will never work like they are described in fiction. The Ion drive is a perfect as is the much abused laser. It doesn't matter how far we're supposedly going to advance these technologies (itself a wild guess), it's just as likely we will never get technologies like the magic in Battletech, Gundam or Macross. Nor any reasonably hand drawn facsimile. From where I sit, those three franchises are all woefully magical and I'm not convinced one takes the cake over the other in the context of this thread. But that's just me.

You practically read my mind right there. o.O I haven't seen VOTOMS as of yet beyond the basic background information I read, but the labors in Patlabor definitely have one of the more plausible backgrounds and designs in all of mecha in general, especially one as down to earth as the Ingram. Labors that do possess some sort of flight capability are not only extremely rare but are also capable of 'flight' in limited durations. Ghost in the Shell and their multi-legged tanks also came to mind as well just for the fact that they walk with... well... more than two legs.

I agree. They are the mecha I've seen that act most like what we can expect to develop in the future. They have the function and capability that we can reasonably expect to achieve. It also helps that the mecha of Patlabor are (for the most part) simple, small and comparatively cost effective units. It's far more realistic to build, afford and maintain an Ingram, or the HAL X-10, or the AFL-98 Lhada than a Valkyrie or a Gundam. So they win my vote.

[Recon 5]

Except for the fact that Patlabor OSes fit on floppies while we can't even make Vista fit on ONE CD. THATS even more impossible than, say, expecting a feasible fusion reactor to be proposed in the next 24 hours.

Anyway, Ingrams and Armored Troopers are merely what we can expect to build with the technology of today (yesterday even) or maybe 2030 or 2050. I don't see whats wrong with bringing in infant technologies like fusion and thermoptic cloaking or slightly more mature ones like lasers and particle beams if we're talking about something considerably further into the future.

About the tachikomas (the 'tanks' in Ghost in the Shell), have you ever tried locating their center of balance? They've got to be using antigravity as well .

[Kavik Ryx]

I say why not, as long as you can find some theoretical scientific backing. Minnofsky fusion is a pretty neat idea. Given more research into subatomic particles and how to stabilize them, and viola. However, that's a different topic for a different time. To find what is or can be real, just ask yourself, is there anything in the laws of physics that forbids this from happening, and if so, do what degrees. A disproportional machine is less real than one that uses beam weapons. Minnofsky particles are one thing, how the Strike Freedom keeps itself balanced is another.

[Hyakushiki]

About the tachikomas (the 'tanks' in Ghost in the Shell), have you ever tried locating their center of balance? They've got to be using antigravity as well .

The fact that they move around on four legs, they wouldn't have as many problems with balance as a bipedal platform. The rear capsule is mostly empty with only the equipment necessary for the pilot to control the Tachikoma, most of the weight would be centered in the main body.

[J.E.]

I prefer realistic representation over realistic "ideas".

Battletech
votoms
FM wanzers
ACs(based on the opening movies)
Valkyries

[Kavik Ryx]

Does anyone have any impressions of the mechs from Lelouch of the Rebellion.

[Kuruni]

One thing to consider in mech with four or more legs is, while thatprovide better balance, it also add complexity in control system. One example would be from V Gundam, the six legs Sandhodge need three pilots and two of them handle legs movement. I think multi-legs mech only more realistic if it just "walk", either slower or slighly faster than humanoid mech (like Gunner series from Dougram). Once the thing "run" (BuCUE and Zoid), the realism is drop to same level of bipedal mech.

[Recon 5]

About the Geass mechs, only the pre- sakuradite models would be feasible because, well, sakuradite doesn't exist.

About 6- legged mechs needing more than one pilot- we already have 6- legged robots that move under the control of an external computer. Human control only consists of telling it which direction to go and when it should go in that direction. Things like balancing and adapting to terrain are handled by software.

Scale up a real- life 6- legged robot, substitue a human pilot for the computer and put the pilot on the robot itself and viola! 6- legged mech.

In fact, someone already made a gas- powered one in real life, although its VERY crude. Well, it has more than 6 legs, but it has just one 'pilot' so it sort of proves my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz9kZh8PNVM

[MrMarch]

Except for the fact that Patlabor OSes fit on floppies while we can't even make Vista fit on ONE CD. THATS even more impossible than, say, expecting a feasible fusion reactor to be proposed in the next 24 hours.

Anyway, Ingrams and Armored Troopers are merely what we can expect to build with the technology of today (yesterday even) or maybe 2030 or 2050. I don't see whats wrong with bringing in infant technologies like fusion and thermoptic cloaking or slightly more mature ones like lasers and particle beams if we're talking about something considerably further into the future.

About the tachikomas (the 'tanks' in Ghost in the Shell), have you ever tried locating their center of balance? They've got to be using antigravity as well .

I'm just going to ignore the obvious degree to which a misjudgment about the memory capacity of a supposed floppy disk is no where near the blunder of a fusion engine producing entire magnitudes more energy than that which fusion is capable. Instead I'll just ask that you try considering the vast differences in design consideration that makes a giant multi-legged machines far more practically realistic than a giant bipedal one. And while you're at it, try understanding why it's a fallacy to rely upon several thousand years of supposedly unhindered technological advancement when debating "realism" in mechanical design. I can successfully argue organic spaceships powered by telepathy is more more realistic than any Battletech mecha with that benchmark for plausibility.

[Commander 598]

Yeah...Vista fits on one DVD.

Anyway, I find Btech's representation of to be one of the least realistic. They are portrayed as slow lumbering machines with just about all of them having only built in weapon hardpoints.

How is this unrealistic? It's a mech, it's automatically going to be inferior to a tank in armor, which means that since it's slower than even conventional seventy ton tanks it should be getting raped every time it sticks it's head out in the open, which is pretty often in Btech.

I, personally, find all these hardpoint weapons of Btech (Granted there are SOME weapons that use hand manipulators, but they're rare) an inferior design choice compared to weapons dependent only on a hand. The hand manipulator based weaponry enables just about any model in your army to use all the same weapons and it also means that when one "breaks" or runs out of ammo you aren't going to need a repair crew or a resupply convoy to get back into combat. An added bonus, which seems to be such an issue in Btech, is heat. Seeing as how weapons aren't actually a part of the mech, they won't be causing the whole mech to overheat.

Moving on to mobile suits, they appear to be more like giant infantry than walking tanks. Their armor is relatively light and they appear to be built for pure mobility. They can get around quickly, deliver a nasty punch, and get out (As was seen in an early episode of 08th Team). They were also never actually designed for planetary combat, they were pretty much designed as high mobility space use gunships for combat in and around colonies where the gravity and environment is never a constant. This is also how I rationalize their 18/20m height, modern air superiority fighters already exceed the RX78's height with their length.

[Recon 5]

I can successfully argue organic spaceships powered by telepathy is more more realistic than any Battletech mecha with that benchmark for plausibility.

Correct. So you can't in any way place any UPPER limits on speculative technology.

Perhaps I was wrong if I implied that 31st century technology must be past a certain LOWER limit and I apologize for that. I fully agree that we cannot take too many things for granted when we try to predict what technology we may have in the future.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. In what way is hardpoint- mounted weaponry an inferior design choice? If given a choice between a handgun and a similar caliber weapon that I could strap to my wrist and fire without pulling a trigger, I'd choose the latter any day. It would free up my hands while potentially allowing me to carry more ammo. Not to mention that I could carry a heavier weapon of that type than I could a handgun.

Its also easier to drop or damage a hand weapon compared to a hardpoint weapon. Lets say a Mobile Suit has a wrist beam cannon (and quite a number do have them). An enemy would have to hit the cannon itself to destroy it. A hardpoint weapon would also be set into armor, and thus have A LOT more protection than a handheld weapon.

Compare that to a beam rifle. Hitting ANYWHERE on the arm holding the rifle would make the suit unable to use the weapon. Plus, it is often shown that it takes just one hit to disable a beam rifle (also note that the rifle itself is a large target) whereas hardpoint weapons survive multiple hits.

Remember, one of the early 'Land Warrior' concepts developed by the US Army called for hardpoints (wrist- mounted weapons), so there MUST be some practical advantages over handheld weapons.

Finally, I am not arguing for the abandonment of handheld weapons. Better for a mech to have BOTH them AND hardpoint weapons because, hey, more guns= better survivability, right?

[Aegis]

About 6- legged mechs needing more than one pilot- we already have 6- legged robots that move under the control of an external computer. Human control only consists of telling it which direction to go and when it should go in that direction. Things like balancing and adapting to terrain are handled by software.

Indeed, having multiple pilots in a machine just controlling leg movement pretty much falls under the category of being so flawed that it's unrealistic; it's like requiring two pilots to pilot a bipedal mech because you need one to control the legs and the other to control the arms. The legs would mainly be there to get the thing to walk anyways, and unlike a bipedal mech, there's not that falling over movement you have to deal with as much as simply lift one leg over the other.

[MrMarch]

Correct. So you can't in any way place any UPPER limits on speculative technology.

Perhaps I was wrong if I implied that 31st century technology must be past a certain LOWER limit and I apologize for that. I fully agree that we cannot take too many things for granted when we try to predict what technology we may have in the future.

I just assumed, right or wrong, that "realistic" mecha design was a measure of the most plausible technology, not the outer limits. Regardless, I agree that the point has been covered. Good stuff.

[Kavik Ryx]

To a great degree, beyond a gunner and a driver, multiple pilots appears to be quite unrealistic. It requires all the pilots to be in synchrony, and that's just asking too much. I could work with a heavy tank, or something like that, but would fail with a bipedal, quadrapedal, or hexapedal machine.