Heavyarms

[AmuroNT1]

Just a couple of notes really quick...

Heavyarms Custom's Gatlings do indeed fire solid rounds. In fact, after HAC's initial appearance (the Trowa Spin and taking out a few Serpents), you can see giant shell casings hit the ground at its feet. You can even read "G-METAL JAKET" (sp) on them. I took a screencap ages ago, but don't have it handy at the moment.

Also, Neo Titanium is NOT as strong as Gundanium; it's been stated in practically every source I've seen as being twice as tough as standard Titanium, with some adding that Neo weighs half as much as regular, and others that it costs twice as much to manufacture.

[Gadget]

He should use the Metal Storm. It a stack of barrels that fires up to a million rounds per minute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_storm

[minovskycore_0180er]

It is possible that Heavyarms in EW does in fact have a combat army knife but if you remember when Duo suggested that they use their self-destruct devices to take out half of the reaming Serpent MS Trowa said that, " Causualities must be limited only to" the Gundams, Zech's Talgeese III and Noin's Sanc Kingdom scheme Taurus SMS. And if you recall the beginning episodes of Gundam Wing, I believe it was "Five Gundams Comfirmed" you see exactly what Trowa's gundanium army knife is designed for. To slice an OZ MS in half. And besides Heavyarms has a very high center of balance. Cutting off the legs of a Serpent MS might be problematic to Trowa even though he is a lifelong combat MS pilot. Specially in an urban environment, not an OZ military installation. Manuvering an extreme top heavy MS in between residential buildings and attempting to cut of a large number of Serpent MS legs might prove difficult. Trowa could be surrounded and might kill a Mariemaia Army pilot. That could explain why Trowa didn't employ his army knife. As I said before in the final MS battle of EW the object of the MS was not to obliterate the enemy, but to use as little force as necessary to end Dekim Barton's oppressive ambitions once and for all.

[Aegis]

Nevermind that it's utterly ridiculous to think that mobile suits like Deathscythe Hell, Sandrock, and Tallgeese can use THEIR melee weapons to cripple but Trowa with a much shorter combat knife can't even hope to do the same thing with a mere stab. The fact remains that Heavyarms Kai of EW has absolutely, positively, one hundred percent NO combat knife of its own.

[midnightcitysky]

the kit has no army knife, the lineart shows no army knife, the profiles in the back of the battlefield of pacifists manga doesnot show shows nor states that the suit has an army knife. when katoki redesigned this suit he probably thought "this is a hit and run suit, why does it have a dinky little knife." and I agree look at the guncannon and the guntank, those were artillery units much like the heavy arms and they had no melee weapons same goes for the F-90 destroid. so there is a precedent for a long range suit to have it's weaponry focused ONLY in ranged weaponry.

and considering how in the TV show trowa was able to use his army knife to defend against duo's scythe I think he'd have enough control to be able to cripple a suit. in facty due to army knife being shorter and being an extension of the h-arms arm ghe'd have the most control out of all the pilots...it's fixed so no chance of slippage no having to turn the h-arms wrist or nothing, wherever his arm goes the knife goes. but it's a fact that the H-arms has no knife in the OVA. and you can take a serpent out by slashing it's head off...both duo and quatre do so trowa having difficulty doing so due to a high center of balance and being top heavy is moot. he could just stab the army knife in the enemies face or decap it with a good slice.

[minovskycore_0180er]

Well I give a short answer. MSG side stories, manga, OVA even follow up movies like EW don't always show a MS's capacity within it's entirty. In a production series you see that, not always in the others.

[ShadowCell]

Uh, that is irrelevant. Nowhere in any official publication or piece of merchandise does it say that the Heavyarms Custom that is seen in Endless Waltz as redesigned by Hajime Katoki have any kind of melee weapon. Claiming that it does anyways is silly. Otherwise, I can claim that the Heavyarms has nuclear missiles, hydraulic wang extensions, and fifteen cupholders, because the media in which it appears "don't always show a mobile suit's capacity in its entirety."

This is pretty unequivocal. The Endless Waltz version of the Heavyarms has no melee weapons. Sorry.

[ExhileVoid]

Heavyarms Kai (OVA) may not have any melee weapons, but they did make it for it its more "heavily armed" than its TV version.

TV Version

* 2 x vulcan gun (Head)
* 2 x machine cannon (Torso)
* 2 x Gatling gun (Chest)
* 2 x 3-tube homing missile launcher (Shoulders)
* 2 x 12-tube micromissile launcher pod (Legs)
* 2 x beam Gatling gun with shield (Left arm)
* Heat Knife (Right arm)


OVA Version

* 2 x vulcan gun (Head)
* 2 x machine cannon (Torso)
* 4 x Gatling gun (Chest)
* 2 x 22-tube micromissile launcher system (Shoulders)
* 2 x 4-tube micromissile launcher (Hips)
* 4 x 9-tube homing missile launcher (Legs)
* 2 x double Gatling gun (Both Arms)

OVA Heavyarms Kai have more than twice as much missiles than its TV version (88 missiles vs 30 missiles). With all those extra missiles plus an extra double gatling gun, they pretty much had to ditch the heat knife otherwise the max gross weight of the OVA version will exceed the TV version (I wouldn't really be surprised if it did even if they removed the knife).

My other question is how the bloody hell is OVA Heavyarms Kai able to take on the Virgo IIs properly without having a melee weapon to combat their annoying Planet Defensors?

[Zangetsu]

He shoots them. I know it shouldn't really work but, it does.

[minovskycore_0180er]

Planet Defensors were designed to have the ability to deflect energy-beam attacks, not conventional artillery -grade rounds. Beam technology works under completely different principle then hammer 'n pin gunpowder round with a rifling barrel.

[Zangetsu]

Sorry as was pointed out to me back during the Collesseum, they can block shells.

[Seraphic]

Yup, planet defensers block solid ammunition, too. When the Virgos are first deployed on Earth, you see their defensers block machinegun fire and cause missiles to explode upon impact with the field while they were engaging some Aries suits.

As to how Trowa dealt with this, he simply shot at them when they didn't have their defensers deployed....which I admit is kind of weird. If you watch the Virgo IIs carefully, they only deploy their planet defensers when they're taking up turret/gunning position or formations. Normally, they don't deploy the defensers when they're just flying around.

[Zangetsu]

But only Virgo II. Except for when deployed in the Sanc Kingdom Virgos Always have thier defencers deployed. And who says II were upgraded?

[Seraphic]

But only Virgo II. Except for when deployed in the Sanc Kingdom Virgos Always have thier defencers deployed. And who says II were upgraded?

*confused*

Virgo II upgraded? Well...performance, yeah, but planet defenser strength, probably no. But I don't remember mentioning the strength of planet defensers at all. The Virgo Is were the ones seen fighting those Aries I mentioned.

I was talking about the Virgo II formations and planet defenser tactics. Virgo Is pretty much just used them all the time.

And I'm trying really hard to remember properly, but I think the Heavyarms actually saw little to no action against Virgo Is. It was pretty much out of commission until the Virgo IIs were in production.

[Zangetsu]

[quote="Seraphic"][quote="Zangetsu"]But only Virgo II. Except for when deployed in the Sanc Kingdom Virgos Always have thier defencers deployed. And who says II were upgraded?[/quote]

*confused*

Virgo II upgraded? Well...performance, yeah, but planet defenser strength, probably no. But I don't remember mentioning the strength of planet defensers at all. The Virgo Is were the ones seen fighting those Aries I mentioned.

I was talking about the Virgo II formations and planet defenser tactics. Virgo Is pretty much just used them all the time.

And I'm trying really hard to remember properly, but I think the Heavyarms actually saw little to no action against Virgo Is. It was pretty much out of commission until the Virgo IIs were in production.[/quote]

What I was saying was that when making Virgo IIs they greatly increased it's offencive and defencive armaments. As well when White Fang got them improved thier system. So why would they keep the defencers on? Why instead wouldn't they do that sphere thing (only stronger due to more defencers) and kill all?

[Seraphic]

What I was saying was that when making Virgo IIs they greatly increased it's offencive and defencive armaments. As well when White Fang got them improved thier system. So why would they keep the defencers on? Why instead wouldn't they do that sphere thing (only stronger due to more defencers) and kill all?

To be honest, Zangetsu, no one can tell why the Virgo IIs just didn't continue using the spherical defense/gun emplacement tactic. All we CAN say it that they seem to like the "run and gun" tactic when fighting against opponents while in space. (Really, just watch the last few episodes of GW again ). This probably has to do with the fact that when taking that formation, you can't chase after your enemy and engage him properly, and in space, everyone is moving everywhere all at once. If you just sit still in your little bubble, he'll just fly out of range eventually. This tactic becomes a lot less effective in space (against people who are not dumb.)

An even better point, watch the re-animation of the Heavyarms' fight with the Virgo IIs at the beginning of EW. They don't have their defensers deployed because they were trying to keep up with Trowa!

Hey, I think I actually solved something for once. Cool

[Zangetsu]

Yes you're right. However thats stupid. The Virgo IIs were trying to protect Libra right? So if they all parked/ orbited around Libra wouldn't that be a better stratagy? I mean so what if they run, then they be leaving you alone.

[Seraphic]

Yes you're right. However thats stupid. The Virgo IIs were trying to protect Libra right? So if they all parked/ orbited around Libra wouldn't that be a better stratagy? I mean so what if they run, then they be leaving you alone.

Okay, I know what you're thinking.

Using the planet defensers to just protect Libra seems like a great idea, right?

The only problem with that is that you would end up with your enemy swarming over the entire surface of your battleship with just this (relatively) thin magnetic field to protect you. Libra may not have even had enough Virgos with planet defensers to give them a complete 360degree defense.

What Libra was trying to do was defeat the World Nation forces before they got in range to attack their HQ, hence why they deployed the Virgos forward to meet MO-II. What's even worse, Libra didn't know if MO-II had some secret weapon up their sleeve.

What if you and your Libra had a planet defenser skin, waiting and playing a defensive gun emplacement game, and then MO-II waltzes up with some huge beam cannon and pierces your field?? You'd go down in one shot! That would have seriously sucked.

Fortunately, MO-II didn't have anything like that, but I still think Zechs and Quinze played it smart. They probably would have won still if Trowa hadn't disabled the ZERO/DOLL control system.

Edit: Sorry, Zangetsu, but I couldn't help but quote that line from you. It really makes me laugh from the way it sounds to me.

[Zangetsu]

Well their shiel could probably take a beating. I'd say even a shot or two from the twin buster rifle.

[Seraphic]

Yeah, it probably could take a beating. But even if it could take a shot or two from the Twin Buster Rifle (keep in mind, the shots would be hitting multiple times in the same place), Heero would just have a third one waiting for you. And I was talking battleship-class-secret-weapon up their sleeves. Like the Libra cannon. I don't think defensers would do well against that.

Anyway, I think that's pretty much solved now, so we should get back on topic. I've got a nice Mobile DOLL topic elsewhere on the forum if you want to keep discussing it there.

Hrm...what else is there to say about the Heavyarms?