Why the Hi-Zack?

[Ragormha]

To me there's one thing that doesn't make sense, why does the Federation make the Hi-Zack?
Sure the Zaku II was a good design, but wouldn't the Federation prefer to make something based off their own designs, like the GM?
Rather than a design that looks like a Zeon suit?
And why not go with a better performance suit like a Gelgoog derived suit rather than a Zaku derived suit?

[auriga]

And why not go with a better performance suit like a Gelgoog derived suit rather than a Zaku derived suit?

I'm sure they considered the Gelgoog, but I'd think it's safe to say that the Gelgoog was just too high-performance that it wasn't as suited for mass-production as compared to something based on the Zaku.

[ZeBaron]

Sure the Zaku II was a good design, but wouldn't the Federation prefer to make something based off their own designs, like the GM?
Rather than a design that looks like a Zeon suit?

I think, and I'm just throwing this out there, that in this respect the Hi-Zack, Barzam, Marasai, etc., that is, all the Titans' monoeyes, were conceived by the mecha designers as visual metaphors for what the Earth Federation was (not so) slowly becoming if not idealistically than method-wise (e.g. gassing colonies out of spite, the third Colony Laser).

[Ragormha]

I guess...but still why so much like the original? Couldn't they just make a more cyclopoid (not a real word) GM?
I mean they even changed the federations colours to be more Zeonic.

[auriga]

I think, and I'm just throwing this out there, that in this respect the Hi-Zack, Barzam, Marasai, etc., that is, all the Titans' monoeyes, were conceived by the mecha designers as visual metaphors for what the Earth Federation was (not so) slowly becoming if not idealistically than method-wise (e.g. gassing colonies out of spite, the third Colony Laser).

As much as I'm sure this is borne out of the "monoeyes bad" mentality, I think we want something in-universe.

[Maelstromm]

According to The Gundam Wiki, the reason why the Hi-Zack resembles the Zaku II is because Anaheim Electronics, the manufacturers of the Hi-Zack, absorbed Zeonic Company, which was the main manufacturer of Zeon MS, including the famous Zaku II, and the contributions of Zeonic Company is incorporated into the inner construction and outer appearance. Thus making the Hi-Zack a spiritual descendant of the Zaku II, both in performance and appearance.

[Ragormha]

Yeah..but why do the Titans sport such a Zeon-like colour scheme? I thought they were blue-and-black?
Why would the manufacturers make something so much like the Zaku? Same designers fair enough, but they're so much alike, are they spitting in the face of the federation because they like the irony of Federal forces using Zeon-like mobile suits? Is it because they are from the moon and thsu don't care if it looks like Zeonic or Federal mobile suits?
Also why wouldn't the Earth Federation itself make something more like an updated GM? Why go to Anaheim at all?

[Toxicity]

Also why wouldn't the Earth Federation itself make something more like an updated GM? Why go to Anaheim at all?

They did. They are called the GM II and GM Quel.

Anaheim is good at what they do. The titans going to Anaheim for MS, to me, isn't all that different than Zeon going to the zimmad or zeonic company, or the US going to lockheed or that other one the fails me for aircraft (I want to say beoing for the other one)

[Maelstromm]

Same designers fair enough, but they're so much alike, are they spitting in the face of the federation because they like the irony of Federal forces using Zeon-like mobile suits?

Actually, if you read the wiki, it states that the Titans didn't like the Hi-Zack either as it reminds them of the Zaku II, but were forced to use it due to the need to ensure a sufficient amount of suits for their growing forces.

[Duraham]

2nd possible in-universe explanation: ease of maintanence, compared to a GM head. well, the HiZack was favoured by the pilots for its relatively ease of maintainence compared to other MS. as all other MS before the Hizack was either a gundam head or a GM head, I guess it would have to lie in the monoeye itself.

[jam!]

We already discussed much of this in this thread here:

AOZ and UC continuity

[J-Lead]

I guess...but still why so much like the original? Couldn't they just make a more cyclopoid (not a real word) GM?

They did, and it was called the Hizack. There's more GM in there than there is Zaku, believe it or not. As for an in universe explanation, the Hizack seems to have been retconned into having it's origins rooted with Anaheim, what with all the Zeonic employment mixed in there. As jam! stated, we already discussed that in the AOZ cont. thread.

As for a reason why they decided to go with a Zaku based design rather than a GM? Well, supposedly the Hizack is much more modular (much like the Zaku) than any of the previous GM series that came before it.

The Hizack is designed to be more modular than the GM series which previously served as the Earth Federation Forces' main mobile suit, making it simpler to replace its parts. Thanks to its advanced modular construction this machine is unusually easy to modify.

I mean they even changed the federations colours to be more Zeonic.

The Titans did that, the federation themselves actually went with blue colors.

[OpMegs]

Further threadcromancy

This seems to be a popular topic of discussion as there's little in-universe reasoning for it.

[Cardi Doorl]

It bothers me, too. The out-of-universe reasoning for it is pretty clear what with the Titans being portrayed as Zeon's spiritual successor, at least in terms of method and tactics and being bad guys and all - a statement that the Federation had become the very enemies they worked so hard to defeat.

But in-universe... yeah, Anaheim had a lot of former Zeonic designers and engineers and whatnot, but in the end the Titans could've said "Hey, we like how this mobile suit handles and how easy it is to operate and maintain... but we're not buying it unless you give it an aesthetic less similar to the guys we're trying to hunt down." In the end, the buyer's gonna choose what he spends his money on, so they could easily have turned down the Hizack based on its appearance and demanded a more GM-style (or at least not-glaringly-Zeonic) head.

[toysdream]

Whether or not Anaheim developed the Hizack - which was always a reasonable theory, but one that's only recently been confirmed via the Advance of Zeta background materials - the Zeonic connection doesn't explain why they used the Zaku as a base rather than, say, the Gelgoog. Zeonic created both the Zaku and the Gelgoog.

Regardless of Anaheim's involvement, there are a few plausible reasons for the Federation Forces to adopt the Zaku - low cost, ease of operation, the availability of a bunch of proven variations for different environments. Choosing the Zaku over the Gelgoog or Galbaldy may just mean the Federation valued those factors over sheer performance. The Zeonic connection wouldn't have anything to do with it.

-- Mark

[jam!]

Actually, when you think about it, the Federation has always been about designing their mobile suits based on intimidation factor hence why they continued producing their Gundams with similar characteristics to the RX-78-2 (aesthetically that is).

Therefore, since the EFSF and particularly the Titans were hunting down the Zeons, when they were given the design schematics for the Hizack and saw the obvious visual similarities to the Zaku designs they probably thought how it would be a real kick-in-the-nuts to use Zeon inspired designs to attack the Zeon remnants.

I'm very sure that the first Hizacks that were deployed to hunt down Zeons took those same Zeons by surprise. No doubt those Zeons had to wonder if the Hizacks were a new Zeon model developed by another Zeon commander trying to start a conflict like how Delaz did. Therefore, an in-universe explanation would be to give the Titans/EFSF the element of surprise as well as greater ability to instill fear in their prey.

[OpMegs]

That was one theory that I had considered, though perhaps for opposite reasons. Designing an entire line of mass produced suits around a concept that, most likely, will only work once on any given Zeon remnant is kind of a stretch.

However, there's also the psychological effect of the hardcore Zabists seeing the mainstay of their old glory taken and co-opted by the Federation forces. Inciting anger and wounded pride over calculated strategy may have been another reason, albeit probably minor compared to the established ease of maitenance.

As for why they didn't base one off the Gelgoog, wasn't the Galbady Beta essentially a Gelgoog descendant? Admittedly, it wasn't as high performance, but it'd be a sign that the "ancestry" didn't die out with the Marine and the Jaeger.

[Ascension]

*ahem* The Beta WAS better than the Gelgoog... as was the Galbaldy Alpha, for that matter. Pretty much ANY Zeta-era MS will be better than the Gelgoog. There was a seven-year gap between wars, you know. A lot of stuff can happen in seven years, technology wise.

Asking why the Galbaldy Beta wasn't more like the Gelgoog is like asking why the F-100 Super-Sabre wasn't more like the F-86 Sabre. It may seem like the Sabre is superior to the Super-Sabre if you look at its war record... the F-86 was pretty much the ultimate fighter in Korea, while its successor was quickly outdated during Vietnam and replaced with F-4s and Thunderchiefs... but if you were to look at the machines side by side you would see that the Super-Sabre is a far better aircraft than its predecessor.

In its Gryps War environment, the Beta doesn't look that impressive, but it was a major step up from the Gelgoog.

((EDIT: Interestingly enough, the F-86 was introduced in 1949, while the F-100 was introduced in 1954. That's only a five-year gap.))

[domtropen]

The monoeye MS are used by other fed groups as well though, such as Rick Dias and Methuss by AEUG, Marasai planning for AEUG, and Dijeh by Karaba. If Schirocco counts his MS design are monoeye too. Apart from Z, ZZ and Shiki series Nemo is probably one of the few non-monoeye MS totally newly built at around the Gryps War, since GM III is pretty much an upgrade of GM II with Gundam Mk II's parts.

I agree with Mark that the fed probably decides for the combination of low and easy maintainance, ease of operation, low unit cost, good enough performance, and ease of modification for environment-specific related models rather than high cost + high performance model. In here:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Gundam_Evol ... topic=1450

it is even argued that the ZZ's Zaku Mariner and new version of Desert Zaku and Z's Space Zaku Cannon and other Zakus used by the fed and Titans may be built by the fed and may have relation with Hizack too [as probably these new fed Zakus are [hi]Zakus].

From ZZ even the cream of the crop Gryps era MS like ZZ and Zeta have lots of problem fighting the old red Gelgoog, and OYW-based MS like Desert Zaku and Dowadge are quite equal to them in overall actual performance, and Jerid on Galbaldy almost owned Mk II while him in Hizack performs much worse.

[OpMegs]

In its Gryps War environment, the Beta doesn't look that impressive, but it was a major step up from the Gelgoog.

Ah, I wasn't arguing the Beta's performance so much as citing it as a refutation of "why'd they update the Zaku into the Hizack instead of the Gelgoog?". The answer being, they did. With the Beta. Which is simply the Gelgoog's latest next-generation descendant. It's just less head-slammingly obvious than the Hizack.