Lombardia and Hario

[Cardi Doorl]

(Took me a while to decide whether this fit either A&M or M&T, so if the guys with jurisdiction in these areas decide this thread's more fitting in M&T, then you know what to do )

I'm not sure I understand the deal with the Hario and Lombardia, not least because I don't recall seeing nor hearing about either during the Zeta series...

First off, the Lombardia. I don't recall this ship ever appearing or being mentioned, but there it is with an MAHQ profile all its own. At the same time, though, it's listed as a ship of the Alexandria-class. Now, I know the MAHQ profiles aren't perfect and have errors in more than a few places (especially in the Zeta section), but even outside the MAHQ profiles I've heard conflicting accounts as to what the Lombardia is. I often hear it referred to a class all its own, yet also hear sometimes it's just a subtype of the Alexandria-class, and furthermore even sometimes even hear it's just an Alexandria-class. That I don't recall the Lombardia having anything to do in Zeta only increases my confusion.

The Hario issue is more straightforward, as the lineart clearly shows it's an alternate model of the Alexandria-class (whereas the Lombardiaineart isn't so clear, due to its odd angle choice), but when is the Hario ever seen/mentioned in Zeta? And is the Hario the only confirmed specimen of this subtype?

So hopefully someone (or several someones) can clear this stuff up for me, as there doesn't seem to be much information on this matter, and what little there is is confusing.

[Melchior]

I believe the Lombardia's listing under the Alexandria section is a leftover mistake from when we thought the Lombardia is just a regular Alexandria. Can't really help with the question over its designation, but I would think it differs enough from the Alexandria design to be considered a seperate class.

The Hario first appears in ep 12 (or thereabouts) and at this stage appears to be an EFF vessel (despite its listing on MAHQ). Scirocco dragoons the ship into helping him attack the AEUG's fleet which is on its way to Earth. It appears a couple mroe times towards the end of Zeta, often in group shots with the rest of the Titans fleet. Since we don't get a close up of it this time or get to see its crew we don't know whether it has become a fully fledged Titan ship or not.[/i]

[Pegasus]

I can't remember exactly which but I believe the Lombardia is supposed to be an "experimental" or maybe "prototype" version of the Alexandria class. I think the Newtype 100% Collection Zeta Gundam Mechanical Edition Vol 2 has short piece clarifying the situation. Anyway the Lombardia showing up late in the Gryps Conflict. In episode 42 she commands the Titan fleet that tries to use G3 on a colony in Side 2. A chap with an impressive beard appears to be the captain.

On to the Hario. She appears early in the series. Scirocco stops there with the Messala at the time of the AEUG attack on Jaburo. The Hario is also the only Alexandria class vessel to have an entirely EFSF crew, her captain is one Major Ted Ayachi. She is seen on an off for the rest of the series as part of the Titan fleet but she disappears before the show down at the end. My guess is that when the Federation assembly withdraws support for the Titans she slips away from the remnants for the Titan fleet.

[mcred23]

I'd have to go back and check, but I want to say that more than one Lombardia was shown when we see them around Episode 42. I've also heard that the Lombardia may have been a design that was competeing with the Alexandria class, but I'm not sure if that is true or not.

It's also worth noting that the Hario was also shown carrying a few Zaku Cannons (Along with EFF colored Hizacks) when Pappy stops there before the attack on Jaburo, which is why they're listed with the EFF units (And why the Hario should be as well).

[Melchior]

Since this is semi-on topic, I'd like to point out a widely accepted (but definete misconception) about the MS capacity of the standard Alexandria. Prior to the release of AoZ, MAHQ listed the capacity as 10, which the lineart clearly reinforces (sorry, don't have the scan on me). AoZ came along and indicated that the capaicty was 12, and this was accepted by MAHQ (and all other fans). Only later did we realise that the Aswan (and also Al Giza) were refits, and so accordingly the capacity of 12 should only apply to these two refits, while all other forms (classic Alexandria style, Hario style, Gaunland style) have capacities of 10.

[Wingnut]

Time for some visual aids.
Here's the bow. And here's the rest of her from the dorsal side.
Also her bridge.

Caps taken from episode 42. I was also only able to confirm one Lombardia at any given time during this episode.

[mcred23]

Since this is semi-on topic, I'd like to point out a widely accepted (but definete misconception) about the MS capacity of the standard Alexandria. Prior to the release of AoZ, MAHQ listed the capacity as 10, which the lineart clearly reinforces (sorry, don't have the scan on me). AoZ came along and indicated that the capaicty was 12, and this was accepted by MAHQ (and all other fans). Only later did we realise that the Aswan (and also Al Giza) were refits, and so accordingly the capacity of 12 should only apply to these two refits, while all other forms (classic Alexandria style, Hario style, Gaunland style) have capacities of 10.

Although, as has been noted numerious times on this and other sites, the capacity of ships in Gundam (Particularly Zeta) can almost always go above their listed numbers, and most ships have conflicting listed numbers anyway. For the Alexandria, we know it can carry and support something in the area of ten or twelve or so MS.

[Cardi Doorl]

Right, so let me make sure I understand this correctly:

The Lombardia may have been an warship design that competed with, and lost out to (probably before the events of Zeta), the Alexandria-class... or it might've been a warship design that preceded the Alexandria-class, with the Alexandria-class designed after "learning" from the Lombardia-class. Any clarification in which, if either, is the case? In either case, it's definitely a class all its own, and not a refit Alexandria nor a subtype of the Alexandria-class. It's not clear whether or not there are any other of the Lombardia line.

The Hario, as was clear from the beginning, is indeed simply a refit Alexandria-class cruiser, and, interestingly enough, is with crew from the regular Federal Forces rather than the Titans. Shall we presume that the Hario is the only Alexandria-class to have been refit in this manner?

[Melchior]

Shall we presume that the Hario is the only Alexandria-class to have been refit in this manner?

I would think we should no. There's no indication that there are any others. It's been suggesting that this refit is specifically designed for the EFSF, but there's certainly no confirmation. The Gaunland would appear to be the only ship of its subtype as well, while there of two ships in Katoki's subtype (Aswan, Al Giza).

I'm pretty certain there's only one Lombardia as well. I never saw anything to indicate there was more than one unit in ep42.

[Skippy438]

Kinda off topic, but since we're talking about Alexandria refits ... is the ship at the end of 0083 that the Albion crew is stationed on supposed to be an under-construction Alexandria class? It's been a while since I last saw the episode, but I can only seem to recall that it was white.

[Bright Noa]

The Hario, as was clear from the beginning, is indeed simply a refit Alexandria-class cruiser, and, interestingly enough, is with crew from the regular Federal Forces rather than the Titans. Shall we presume that the Hario is the only Alexandria-class to have been refit in this manner?

Yeah, I would have to say on this matter that the Hario is indeed a refit of the Alexandria-class line, just as the Albion is a refit of the Pegasus-class line.

Although, I think it is best to keep the Hario profile and Gaunland profile separate (like they currently are) because of the different refits to those respective vessels.

As for its allegiance, I think it should stay with the Earth Federation, with a note in its Burke's profile about the Hario's brief tenure with the Titans.

[Mark064]

The Lombardia may have been an warship design that competed with, and lost out to (probably before the events of Zeta), the Alexandria-class... or it might've been a warship design that preceded the Alexandria-class, with the Alexandria-class designed after "learning" from the Lombardia-class. Any clarification in which, if either, is the case? In either case, it's definitely a class all its own, and not a refit Alexandria nor a subtype of the Alexandria-class. It's not clear whether or not there are any other of the Lombardia line.

I'm not really sure what you are basing all of that on. What I was able to find is the Lombardi is overall a variant on the Alexnadria Class. The note made is that there many variants to the Alexndria Class and this is just one of those. Compared to a standard Alexandria Class the Lombardi has a larger hangar to hold and operate more mobile suits however it has weaker armaments overall. The general consensus seemed to agree that it is a class. But I think more accurately it would be a subclass of the Alexandria Class.

Kinda off topic, but since we're talking about Alexandria refits ... is the ship at the end of 0083 that the Albion crew is stationed on supposed to be an under-construction Alexandria class? It's been a while since I last saw the episode, but I can only seem to recall that it was white.

Yup that was the Al Giza.

[Cardi Doorl]

I'm not really sure what you are basing all of that on.

I was basing "all of that" on the answers I'd received so far, which weren't disputed up until now.

What I was able to find is the Lombardi is overall a variant on the Alexnadria Class. The note made is that there many variants to the Alexndria Class and this is just one of those. Compared to a standard Alexandria Class the Lombardi has a larger hangar to hold and operate more mobile suits however it has weaker armaments overall. The general consensus seemed to agree that it is a class. But I think more accurately it would be a subclass of the Alexandria Class.

Now this confused me. It seems that it's referred (going by the first boldfacing I've added for emphasis) to in reputable sources as a subclass of the Alexandria, yet is also (going by the second boldfaced part) its own class and is only a subclass in your opinion? Which is the case, since your post didn't seem to clear anything up?

Sorry, it just seemed to contradict itself thanks to those two points I boldfaced.

[Mark064]

From what I've seen the Lombardi is always identified seperatly as it's own class the "Lombardi Class". Though I'm actually starting to change my line of thinking after staring at the design long enough and I think it is different enough to be it's own class. The problem is there is still no great picture of the ship itself even...

[Melchior]

Well I'm pulling this thread back from the depths of page 2, but with good reason. This image recently came to light over at the TTT. It's the Aswan Kai (white and red ship), and its similarities to the Lombardia should be obvious. Although it seems unlikely that the design will actually appear in AoZ, but is rather one of Fujiokas many "MSVs" it stil raises some questions. Does this then mean that the Lombardia really is just a sub-clas rather than a class? Because it seems impossible to tell whether the Aswan Kai is of the Alexandria class (like its Aswan sister) or the Lombardia class.

[Chris]

In the meantime, while that's sorted out, it'd be nice if somebody could clean up that color Aswan, as we only have it in black and white.

[Mark064]

Uhg another horrible AoZ design this time in the form of a ship. No text really saying anything on the ship but I'm willing to bet it's still an Alexandria Class. It's pretty close to the Aswan design itself, the entire back is almost the Aswan itself you just have the front being altered to hold the TR-6s and a few minor alterations. After all if it's an Aswan Kai it stands to be that's it'd be based on the Alexandria Class in the first place and specfically the Aswan design. You don't name a Magellan Class ship as Salamis Kai, that's just silly.

[Wingnut]

Uh, no they're not obvious there Melchior. She is clearly a modified Alexandria class ship rather than a Lombardia class. The second b/w lineart strip at the bottom shows that it was converted from an Alexandria

[Melchior]

Lol, well it obviously has similarities to both designs, which isn't that surprising since the Lombardia is meant to be a sub-class of the Alexandria. But rather than me argue my point, I'll let this thread do it instead:
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Titans_Test_ ... =1298&st=0

[Imperial]

Maybe I'm going crazy, but I think the Lombardia bears more than a passing resemblance to our old friend, the Argama.

Now, I don't know if that means anything at all, but it is an interesting thought. After all, the AEUG is comprised of former Federation soldiers, so it's possible they drew upon what they knew when building their flagship. (MAHQ lists both Anaheim and the AEUG as its manufacturers.)

Given the visual cues and the presence of only one Lombardia (or so we assume) throughout Zeta, methinks the Lombardia is a forerunner to the Alexandria-class. According to my wild, baseless theory, perhaps the Lombardia was constructed as a next-generation MS-carrier prototype some time before the Titans descended into absolute corruption. The Titans took the development in one direction, culminating in the Alexandria, while the AEUG used what they knew of the Lombardia to create the Argama. Despite this, the Lombardia was still a useful ship in its own right so the Titans kept it around.