CE Gundamjacks: Fool Me Once...

[ZeBaron]

Just a quick question after watching through a few more GSD episodes. I think it's generally understood how ZAFT was able to get into Heliopolis so easily and jack 4 of the 5 EA prototype mobile weapons: on top of spec ops training and the fact that Heliopolis was a neutral colony, and thus wouldn't have much in the way of weaponry (theoretically), the Alliance had no clue that ZAFT would try to steal the five prototypes out from under their noses, which I think would explain how they were able to get in and get out with four machines somewhat easily.

Fast forward...2 years? Aprilius One, Ep. 1 of GSD. Within the first episode, three EXTENDED pilots are able to jack ZAFT's three newest Gundams in the middle of a military armory, all conveniently stacked next to each other, and bust out of the colony with really only the Impulse and a ZAKU Phantom to get out of the way.

Now's the dilemma: Wouldn't ZAFT have learned from the previous conflict about getting suits jacked, and taken deeper measures to insure that their latest prototype suits wouldn't be stolen, say, more guards or maybe a GuAIZ standing guard outside the hangar door, at the very least? Another thing: Why were they all parked next to each other? I can understand how tech crews would need to relay basic technical info or how to connect the ion pump to the leg actuators or whatnot, but seeing as how easily the EA's machines were stolen, one would think that in case of another Gundamjack, the three suits would have been split between three hangars, and the information relayed wirelessly. For those who don't think the info relay is possible, we've got something today that does so just fine: it's called Nextel.

Lastly, once they'd gotten into the suits, they just tapped in some basic commands and the things were up and running. Wouldn't they have harder passcodes, if any, to crack before the suits were started? The EXTENDEDs never came off to me as being well versed in electronics, so that's kinda odd. Even so, why can't they just hardwire a mobile-suit grade LoJack into the OS? That way, if the suit was ever started without authorization or without a key (e.g. something like Gundam X's G-Con), half the base would have their rifles pointed at the suits' hangar before the things could even stand upright.

Or, as I think might be the case, was it just a spat of ineptitude perpetrated by the writing staff when they were trying to Franken GSD's plot together?

K, that's it for my rant. Opinions?

[Chris]

You have to recall that in DESTINY, the Extendeds had inside help from ZAFT soldiers who got them into the base. Although the series never examines that more closely, DESTINY ASTRAY pretty much lays it out that Durandal knew about it, so he probably engineered the leak of the data so that Phantom Pain could get in. Also, in this post-war time period, you've got a lot of newbs in ZAFT who don't have combat experience and aren't likely to respond well to such a swift surprise attack.

[CYNICISM AT IT'S BEST]

Well I would guess that Zaft didn't think that anyone would be nutz enough to try stealing them from a military armory, along with the help they'd gotten, hence the simplicity of their capture and the ease of start up, as for the lax security, I have to agree with you on that one, all in all I think it was just to set up the storyline, kinda lame personally.

[EZero8]

Considering that Gilly Durandul is theoretically(?) a member of LOGOS, I'd think that the whole Aprilius One Gundamjack was staged to start the next Natural vs. Coordinator conflict and ultimately lead to his Destiny Plan proposal. Otherwise the EA, being shown as incompetant losers and grunts in GSD, wouldnt have been able to find out about the new ZAFT Gundams being developed.

EDIT: Double Ninja'd...

[Destroy Gundam]

From the way it looked, they didn't enter that hangar through the front, and they did have some help in the form of those two ZAFT? soldiers that gave them access to the hangar. And it wasn't like the three were unguarded, as there was a fair number of armed soldiers in the area, at least two of them perched on one of the suits.

Also, I don't think ZAFT thought anyone would even try to steal them, as it required

1: Getting into the colony without being detected.
2: Gain access to a restriced area, again without being detected, and taking out any number of guards, technicians, and the intended pilots.
3: Reprograming the mobile suits, a task that seems beyond normal pilots, or at least naturals.
4: Taking out the many mobile suits in the area.
5: Getting out of the colony without getting shot to pieces.
6: Making it to a mothership that also somehow evades detection.

I don't think that ZAFT expected OMNI to build a Mirage-Colloid equipped battleship or send in Extended pilots. With the (presumably) heightened security that would entail Dullindal's visit and the Minerva's launch, ZAFT had no reason to suspect anything would go wrong.

[auriga]

Fast forward...2 years?

Why that long? Do recall that ZAFT experiences its first on-screen Gundamjack when Lacus easily handed the Freedom over to Kira.

Another thing: Why were they all parked next to each other? I can understand how tech crews would need to relay basic technical info or how to connect the ion pump to the leg actuators or whatnot, but seeing as how easily the EA's machines were stolen, one would think that in case of another Gundamjack, the three suits would have been split between three hangars, and the information relayed wirelessly. For those who don't think the info relay is possible, we've got something today that does so just fine: it's called Nextel.

Destiny Astray tells us that the three suits were in the process of being loaded into the Minerva. Or at least, that's how I understand things.

While yes, being located at separate hangars would be a better safety measure, it's also not cheap. You're going to have to set aside another two hangars, not to mention station two more sets of guards in those extra hangars.

And also, while separate hangars would've been better, would it matter much? The Alliance knew a lot about the security surrounding the three prototypes as it was an inside job; even if they were in separate locations, they'd still know and thus make the necessary adjustments.

And then we have the speculation about Dullindal leaking the information himself... If that was the case, then ZAFT never had much chance to begin with.

EDIT: ninja'd four times? I better learn how to think and write faster.

[Antares]

The idea that Durandal helped to orchestrate it would play better into his persona and make it look like the Destiny Plan was in the works all along. Sadly, this comes better through only in hindsight. It certainly would've lessened the change from petting kittens to stomping them as Durandal did in GSD. And you could just barely argue that the launch of Minerva was considered a festive occasion (MS in decorative gear) so they were concentrating on different things than prototype security. Otherwise ZAFT was just being too dumb to be taken seriously. And as Destroy Gundam listed, getting Sting, Auel and Stellar in their, er, personally unique outfits all the way into the hangar itself was quite the feat in itself. They could've at least dressed them up in ZAFT uniforms.

[Duraham]

from a non-Durandal more realistic kind of view:

do remember that they were preparing to commemorate the launch of the Minerva. as the MS are basically all belonging to the Minerva, it makes sense for them to be parked close to one another, probably to do some sort of flyby or ceremonial performance. This is also evidenced by the seemingly large number of GINN ceremonial types around the scene.

top that up with 2 years of peace, security is going to be pretty much more relaxed (eg. before the whole war on terrorism thing in real life)

and also the seemingly good relations with the EA (not very good, but at least much better than during the 1st war), there's not going to be any anticipation of the MS being stolen.

[Antares]

Duraham said:

do remember that they were preparing to commemorate the launch of the Minerva. as the MS are basically all belonging to the Minerva, it makes sense for them to be parked close to one another, probably to do some sort of flyby or ceremonial performance. This is also evidenced by the seemingly large number of GINN ceremonial types around the scene.

I concur to a point as I mentioed above, but that doesn't mean the prototype mobile WMD should be under such a low guard with no security codes or other safeguards in place. It didn't seem like they would be moved by pilots but in their struts to the Minerva.

top that up with 2 years of peace, security is going to be pretty much more relaxed (e.g. before the whole war on terrorism thing in real life)

But there is a limit to being lax. I'd say 2 years of uneasy peace, which is shown in the production numbers of mobile suits. Besides, it has been argued that PP is not exactly EA. So ZAFT's intel and general state of alertness does seem a little ridiculously low in this scenario, but I guess it is plausible.

[Melchior]

I concur to a point as I mentioed above, but that doesn't mean the prototype mobile WMD should be under such a low guard with no security codes or other safeguards in place. It didn't seem like they would be moved by pilots but in their struts to the Minerva.

It's true low security over prototypes is inexcusable, unless of course someone wanted them to be stolen, as has already been mentioned about Durandal. People have gone as far as to say the reason Mare was chosen as the official pilot of Abyss (which is odd considering his natural hating persona, which comes into conflict with Durandal's own views of uniting naturals and coordinators) might be because Durandal was hoping Stellar and friends would kill Mare.

[PhantomBread]

Because it was in the script, of course.

But in all seriousness, it's never quite as clear cut, and it's a shame Destiny really never explored some things, or at least could have in manga or sidestories. However, I was disappointed they had to start with a traditional Gundam Jack anyway. It basically goes to say that if you want new mobile suits, have your enemy build them.

[ZeBaron]

It basically goes to say that if you want new mobile suits, have your enemy build them.

Well, at least ZAFT made an effort to put their own twists on the EA (read: ORB) technology, coming up with Spamalot Gundam and Justice Gundam, the first of which lasted into the second war and the second of which blew up GENESIS. The EA, on the other hand, came up with a Big Zam/Psyco Gundam franken-mech that just ended up getting spanked nine times over.

Speaking of Spamalot, this is a tad off subject, but...Is anyone else miffed that the railguns on both Freedoms act like beam cannons? If anything, the shot should look like the Gauss Rifle shots from MechWarrior, considering what a railgun actually fires.

[J-Lead]

Speaking of Spamalot, this is a tad off subject, but...Is anyone else miffed that the railguns on both Freedoms act like beam cannons? If anything, the shot should look like the Gauss Rifle shots from MechWarrior, considering what a railgun actually fires.

To the naked eye, the Gauss Rifle in Mechwarrior looks like a particle weapon as well.

[OpMegs]

Fast forward...2 years?

Why that long? Do recall that ZAFT experiences its first on-screen Gundamjack when Lacus easily handed the Freedom over to Kira.

Which is, in itself, the epitome of what happened to ZAFT in Armory One. An inside faction with considerable infiltration of their infrastructure handed the Gundam/Gundams over to an outside party. The only difference between the two was the intentions of the getaway pilots. Kira blasted his way out of there and only disabled a pair of GINNs on his way out. The Extendeds made a point of creating a huge mess due to their EA ties and assigned mission.

Really, ZAFT needs traitor villain insurance more than it needs better security.

[ZeBaron]

Really, ZAFT needs traitor villain insurance more than it needs better security.

But what about LoJack?

[Duraham]

Speaking of Spamalot, this is a tad off subject, but...Is anyone else miffed that the railguns on both Freedoms act like beam cannons? If anything, the shot should look like the Gauss Rifle shots from MechWarrior, considering what a railgun actually fires.

same here. but I'd attribute that phenomeon to it being like the GP02A, when it fired its nuke it came out in a yellow beam as well. just some sort of dramatic effect, you could say.

I'm more disturbed about the calamity's shield beam cannons being officially labelled as a railgun though

[Recon 5]

Considering the muzzle velocity we're talking about and also the firing mechanism, you shouldn't see ANYTHING coming out of a gauss rifle. The MW effects (even the superfast brown sphere in MW 2 Mercs) are purely dramatic as well. I mean, green beams (MW3)? Helix trails (MW4)? PLEASE! The only thing you should see is the impact of the projectile and the molten metal- rimmed hole it leaves. Nothing in- between, not even a muzzle flash.

However, the flashy effects look good, no? Thats what matters.

About the GSD Gundamjack, though, you'll have to remember that it occurred during a ceremonial event, especially one where the man more valuable than all the prototypes in ZAFT was walking around the base. Their security arrangements were most likely focused on Durandal, really. I know most of us would think differently, but the US government would be more willing to lose a demonstration Joint Strike Fighter than they would be to lose Bush himself (Once again, I KNOW THAT MOST OF US WOULD THINK DIFFERENTLY).