Why Windam

[Zangetsu]

Why did they make the windam? More specificly how is the Windam any better than the Dagger L?

http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/gat-02l2.htm
http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/gat-04.htm

[Vyron]

It looks cooler, and is more sleek.
Well most of the time aren't grunt suits going to act exactly the same anyways? The improvements are probably internal and not noticeable, except for the difference in weapons.

[Zangetsu]

I thought they were pretty much the same weapons wise. A gun, two sabers, and the same packs. Am I wrong?

[Wingnut]

Although you would never be able to tell by the animation, I would think that the Windam was a much better performing unit than the Dagger L.
Plus we first see the Dagger L show up in the timeline just after the first war ended IIRC, so by the time Destiny started the Dagger L was already a couple years old. Considering the pace that tech progresses in the CE, it was time to build a new model that could compete with, and beat, ZAFT's newest units at the time in the GuAIZ R and the ZAKU Warrior. That model ended up being the Windam we know.

[Charismatic Enigma]

I brought this up once, but what do you think the unit in between the Dagger L and Windam (Proto-Windam?) looked like and how it performed?

[Zangetsu]

[quote="Wingnut"]Although you would never be able to tell by the animation, I would think that the Windam was a much better performing unit than the Dagger L.
Plus we first see the Dagger L show up in the timeline just after the first war ended IIRC, so by the time Destiny started the Dagger L was already a couple years old. Considering the pace that tech progresses in the CE, it was time to build a new model that could compete with, and beat, ZAFT's newest units at the time in the GuAIZ R and the ZAKU Warrior. That model ended up being the Windam we know.[/quote]

Then why didn't they make something new? I understand if it isn't broke don't fix it but, why not make some noticable change or improvment?

To answer Charismatic Enigma question I would think a bulker Windam with the extra boosters removed.

[Wingnut]

I brought this up once, but what do you think the unit in between the Dagger L and Windam (Proto-Windam?) looked like and how it performed?

You mean a GAT-03? Who ever said there was, or even had to be one in between the Dagger L and the Windam?
There is no GAT-X104, so why does there have to be a GAT-03?

Then why didn't they make something new? I understand if it isn't broke don't fix it but, why not make some noticable change or improvment?

Did you even read what I wrote? You can't tell externally that there is a major difference in the two units. It's just like the upgrades the EFF made to the Jegan over the years. You can't really tell that they are any better on the outside than the ones seen in the CCA movie, but they are significantly better than the older units.
It's the same story for the Dagger L and the Windam.

[Zangetsu]

[quote="Wingnut"][quote="Charismatic Enigma"]I brought this up once, but what do you think the unit in between the Dagger L and Windam (Proto-Windam?) looked like and how it performed?[/quote]You mean a GAT-03? Who ever said there was, or even had to be one in between the Dagger L and the Windam?
There is no GAT-X104, so why does there have to be a GAT-03?[/quote]

I think what he's saying is because it's next in line that there must have been the other design? If there was an GAT-X105 I'm sure people would ask.

[Wingnut]

I brought this up once, but what do you think the unit in between the Dagger L and Windam (Proto-Windam?) looked like and how it performed?

You mean a GAT-03? Who ever said there was, or even had to be one in between the Dagger L and the Windam?
There is no GAT-X104, so why does there have to be a GAT-03?

I think what he's saying is because it's next in line that there must have been the other design? If there was an GAT-X105 I'm sure people would ask.

What? I can't even tell what point you are trying to make. There was no unit with the number GAT-03 or any GAT-X104, made, drawn on paper, or otherwise. There is a GAT-X105, they called it the Strike Gundam.

Also, fix your BBCode. Your quotes are not working properly.

[DeltasTaii]

The Dagger L was worse than the 105 Dagger already. The Windam is a clear improvement unless you think a Jet Dagger L could take Impulse or Freedom straight on with any chance whatsoever. Doesn't help dudes who explode before reacting to a shot with anything but screaming though.

[Zangetsu]

What's the GAT-X103? My point was that's it interesting the they have the Dagger L and then go in a completly new direction with the Windam. So what must have come inbetween if not in the form of a suit then a design.

[Wingnut]

What's the GAT-X103? My point was that's it interesting the they have the Dagger L and then go in a completly new direction with the Windam. So what must have come inbetween if not in the form of a suit then a design.

GAT-X103 is the Buster. And who said there had to be anything, design or otherwise, between the Dagger L and the Windam?

[Charismatic Enigma]

Well, simply put, I guess the answer is that logically the Dagger series was becoming outdated quickly and something needed to be developed and deployed. The result, the Windam. Story wise, it's a grunt unit like the old Daggers, but in a real life sense, its performance and weaponry would probably outclass the Dagger and the possibility that it was more cost effecitve unit to produce rather than an older, outdated machine.

But then again, maybe not...

[Zangetsu]

Well to readress my question what makes the Windam better? if there is noughthing concrete take a guess. It doesn't seam any better to me.

[Wingnut]

Well to readress my question what makes the Windam better? if there is noughthing concrete take a guess. It doesn't seam any better to me.

Again, read my first post here. You can't see it on screen (mainly due to how fracked over the EA got in the story) but the Windam was a big improvement in performance than the Dagger L.

[Zangetsu]

Is it faster, eaiser for new pilots or what?

[Charismatic Enigma]

Yes, I cannot recall at this moment, but I believe there is a point where you can just see that a Jet Windam outperforms the Jet Dagger.

[Wingnut]

Is it faster, eaiser for new pilots or what?

One of the things that pisses me off about CE tech is that we are almost never told things like this.
Anything I say would be no better than someone making up something on wikipedia. However I do know that the Windam has more vernier thrusters on it than the Dagger L, so one could conclude that it is if nothing else, more manuverable than the Dagger L.

[Recon 5]

I wonder how far the Windams are behind the top- of the line suits at the end of the series. I think that they would've exceeded the Impulse and Murasames, or at least just the Impulse in terms of performance if not for the latter's plot power.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

Just 'cause there's no officially-endorsed GAT-03, it doesn't mean fanfic writers can't make their own...

From an animated-and-official perspective however, the gap between the GAT-02L2 Dagger-L and GAT-04 Windam should in theory be bigger than the gap we see in Destiny, where anything Alliance-built seems to become fodder for Impulse or Destiny fairly easily. If the EAF went to the trouble of designing and developing an evolutionary successor to the established Dagger series, breaking away from the mould somewhat to create an all-new machine, surely its performance merited the effort? And if it didn't, why mass-produce enough to almost entirely replace the previous generations of Daggers in service?

From a visual perspective, the Windam's superiority over the Dagger-L isn't astounding. It retains Striker Pack compatibility, which means there's no marked improvement there. But, it has noticeably more vernier thrusters, which no doubt had a positive effect on its performance, especially given that its base mass only increased by 3.15 tons. It also brought in a new-model beam rifle which undoubtedly has internal improvements over the M703/M703K series, and a new shield with internally-stored missiles for added firepower.

To me, it seems more like the Dagger-L was built as a stopgap to bridge the gap between phasing out the previous GAT-01 series, which would no doubt be rendered obsolete by ZAFT's new machines, and the Windam designed to fight them. If anything, it could be the case that many of the technologies - mostly armaments - shared between GAT-02L2 and GAT-04 were actually integrated into the -02L2 design while the -04 they were actually designed for was still in development!