ok. so i wondered, what do you think would be the most effective and efficient way to transport mobile suits from space to an earth battle?
we've seen several of them, from a.c.'s carriers to c.e.'s drop pods but what do you think would be the most effective way to "deliver" them from space to the battle on earth.
A. The A.C.'s re-entry transport (the ones used to deliver the Romefeller's Mobile Virgo Dolls)
B. The Mobile Suit Ballute System of Zeta Gundam (the ones used on the attack on Jaburo by AEUG and the ones also used by the Titans)
C. The Drop-pods/Re-entry pods of Cosmic Era (the ones used by Zaft)
thanks for your answers.
Mobile Suit Delivery
- Vanishing Meteor
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Mobile Suit Delivery
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I would say C is the best choice because they're really fast and hard to hit. On the other hand,the ballutes leave the MS vulnerable because it's slow and can be easily destroyed. No idea about the Romefeller vehicles...are they similar to the ones used by Dekim's Serpent MS reentry vehicles in Endless Waltz?
Not similar, identical. This is what option A is.
A is the best option if the carrier is equipped with at least minimal defences...otherwise, it's a big target with a lot of troops within who are unable to defend themselves.
B's ballute system is good for flexible deployment of a massive force of MS but there's the risk of them coming under attack as what happen in Zeta Gundam and as exploited by several pilots, once the ballutes are deployed, some MS are easy targets since they can't counterattack (effectively becoming fish in a barrel). There's also the fact that for non-atmospheric flight MS, the MS will need to remain on the ballute throughout the atmospheric freefall until they land which is also another point of vulnerability.
C is better than B and if heavily armoured then also better than A simply because of the speed of the reentry capsules. It would be perfect if one of the MS could control the manuevres of the capsules as they came in to land such that the MS could deploy from it then let it crash into an enemy infrastructure.
B's ballute system is good for flexible deployment of a massive force of MS but there's the risk of them coming under attack as what happen in Zeta Gundam and as exploited by several pilots, once the ballutes are deployed, some MS are easy targets since they can't counterattack (effectively becoming fish in a barrel). There's also the fact that for non-atmospheric flight MS, the MS will need to remain on the ballute throughout the atmospheric freefall until they land which is also another point of vulnerability.
C is better than B and if heavily armoured then also better than A simply because of the speed of the reentry capsules. It would be perfect if one of the MS could control the manuevres of the capsules as they came in to land such that the MS could deploy from it then let it crash into an enemy infrastructure.
Ok, so i still see Option C as the best. They work all the time as shown in SEED and SEED Destiny. They're excellent at flanking enemy units like with the Doms entering Orb but their only major weakness is if the enemy has something like the Nibelung. Win-win method for ZAFT.
Option A is best for mass invasions on a secured drop route because of their capacity, but they are extremely weak in a hostile situation. Saw them burst like eggs when Zechs appeared in the Tallgeese III in Endless Waltz.
Option A is best for mass invasions on a secured drop route because of their capacity, but they are extremely weak in a hostile situation. Saw them burst like eggs when Zechs appeared in the Tallgeese III in Endless Waltz.
- Brave Fencer Kirby
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It depends on what you're trying to do.
A dropship operation is best if either a) your dropships are capable of entering combat and surviving, or b) you're setting your troops down well away from the front lines, where you won't be meeting enemy resistance. A combat-ready dropship provides protection for its troops in several forms: armor between the transportees and the people shooting at them, supporting fire from its on-board armament, and a speedy, maneuverable entry to the combat area. So, basically, a dropship can get into the drop zone quick and deploy its troops in a precise location, while firing at enemy positions to make them keep their heads down, and offering its troops extra armor in case anyone makes a lucky shot against the ship. Non-combat dropships from behind the front lines aren't very exciting, but they're both the most economic and the safest method of the three listed here.
Ballutes are a fast, cheap way of delivering troops to a battlefield. It's not as tactically flexible as a dropship, as it's virtually impossible to pick a precise landing zone, and it's a one way trip, so you better have some sort of extraction method in place, or else you're sending your troops on a suicide mission. Unfortunately, you might be doing that anyway; ballutes are vulnerable to interception at essentially every stage of their decent, from attack by space fighters in orbit, to surface-to-air missiles during reentry, air superiority fighters in the upper atmosphere, surface fire close to the ground, and, of course, any troops waiting when they finally do touch down. And forget about a stealth entry, too -- because ballutes rely on air friction to slow their decent, they're going to be visible to anybody with a thermal sensor, a halfway decent radar, or a pair of eyes.
Reentry pods are something of a middle ground -- which is both good and bad. They're more expensive than ballutes, but safer. They put some armor between the troops and the outside world, which makes them harder to shoot down, and also enables a faster reentry since a) you don't have to worry about your troops burning up, and b) you can stick a rocket on the bottom for a rapid deceleration when you're near the ground, instead of relying solely on air braking. So they share the dropship's speed of entry and armor protection, but, like the ballute, they're not especially precise, are only one-way rides, and have all the stealth of a rampaging buffalo.
Overall, I'd say that a combat dropship is the best way to deploy troops, but to land any great number of units, you're going to need big, expensive troop carriers to do it (think White Base Lite). Ballutes are great for quick-and-dirty insertions with little or no investment on your part, as long as you can accept the fact that it's highly unlikely that all your troops will make it to the ground. Reentry pods are something of a middle ground -- it needs more preparation and effort than ballutes (but not as much as dropships) and is more likely to get your troops down alive (but not as likely as it would be with dropships).
A dropship operation is best if either a) your dropships are capable of entering combat and surviving, or b) you're setting your troops down well away from the front lines, where you won't be meeting enemy resistance. A combat-ready dropship provides protection for its troops in several forms: armor between the transportees and the people shooting at them, supporting fire from its on-board armament, and a speedy, maneuverable entry to the combat area. So, basically, a dropship can get into the drop zone quick and deploy its troops in a precise location, while firing at enemy positions to make them keep their heads down, and offering its troops extra armor in case anyone makes a lucky shot against the ship. Non-combat dropships from behind the front lines aren't very exciting, but they're both the most economic and the safest method of the three listed here.
Ballutes are a fast, cheap way of delivering troops to a battlefield. It's not as tactically flexible as a dropship, as it's virtually impossible to pick a precise landing zone, and it's a one way trip, so you better have some sort of extraction method in place, or else you're sending your troops on a suicide mission. Unfortunately, you might be doing that anyway; ballutes are vulnerable to interception at essentially every stage of their decent, from attack by space fighters in orbit, to surface-to-air missiles during reentry, air superiority fighters in the upper atmosphere, surface fire close to the ground, and, of course, any troops waiting when they finally do touch down. And forget about a stealth entry, too -- because ballutes rely on air friction to slow their decent, they're going to be visible to anybody with a thermal sensor, a halfway decent radar, or a pair of eyes.
Reentry pods are something of a middle ground -- which is both good and bad. They're more expensive than ballutes, but safer. They put some armor between the troops and the outside world, which makes them harder to shoot down, and also enables a faster reentry since a) you don't have to worry about your troops burning up, and b) you can stick a rocket on the bottom for a rapid deceleration when you're near the ground, instead of relying solely on air braking. So they share the dropship's speed of entry and armor protection, but, like the ballute, they're not especially precise, are only one-way rides, and have all the stealth of a rampaging buffalo.
Overall, I'd say that a combat dropship is the best way to deploy troops, but to land any great number of units, you're going to need big, expensive troop carriers to do it (think White Base Lite). Ballutes are great for quick-and-dirty insertions with little or no investment on your part, as long as you can accept the fact that it's highly unlikely that all your troops will make it to the ground. Reentry pods are something of a middle ground -- it needs more preparation and effort than ballutes (but not as much as dropships) and is more likely to get your troops down alive (but not as likely as it would be with dropships).
Fighting evil so you don't have to!
IMO option C isn't that good. If you are deploying your mobile Suits in the middle of attack on the enemy positions, you are asking for more casualties.
Imagine this. The drop pod is big. Therefore it gives the enemy a big target. Ok, the pod deploys the Mobile Suits at a high altitude, so it doesn't get shot at that much.
However, the 4 MS continue their path, staying in a close formation, the formation also is a pretty big target, just asking to get shot. Because there are LOTS of OTHER drop pods, the Mobile Suits can't loosen the formation too much.
Someone will probably object by stating the fact, that the Mobile Suits will fire at the enemies on the ground. Destroying those that fire at them. Before you say that ask yourself this. Who is in a better firing position? Someone, who is positioned at the ground and stationary, also entrenched in a defensive position OR someone who's falling down from the skies, and must control the landing sequence, firing and evasion at the same time?
Getting closer to the ground, the attackers will be facing more and more incoming weapons as they land, because the short range weapons will also start firing. However, this also works on the other side too, attackers will also engage their short range weaponry, adding another task to the pilot, to take care of. Yeah, yeah I know they are THE COORDINATORS, but everyone has it's limits, even they. (believe it or not).
Finally, we reach the landing, to avoid getting a VERY close view of the ground, Mobile Suit pilots have to SLOW DOWN, which gives the attackers a slower moving target, resulting in more holes in the said target. If someone was already slowing down during the fall, they are probably dead. Because I would always prefer a slower moving target over a fast one. (Don't know, maybe it's just me.)
I don't know about the other landing techniques, because i have only seen GS and GSD. So I can't say anything about them.
I think that the option C is good for quickly landing your troops in a safe area and THEN attacking the enemy.
P.S. Maybe I went a little offtopic, but I wanted to write a long post.
Imagine this. The drop pod is big. Therefore it gives the enemy a big target. Ok, the pod deploys the Mobile Suits at a high altitude, so it doesn't get shot at that much.
However, the 4 MS continue their path, staying in a close formation, the formation also is a pretty big target, just asking to get shot. Because there are LOTS of OTHER drop pods, the Mobile Suits can't loosen the formation too much.
Someone will probably object by stating the fact, that the Mobile Suits will fire at the enemies on the ground. Destroying those that fire at them. Before you say that ask yourself this. Who is in a better firing position? Someone, who is positioned at the ground and stationary, also entrenched in a defensive position OR someone who's falling down from the skies, and must control the landing sequence, firing and evasion at the same time?
Getting closer to the ground, the attackers will be facing more and more incoming weapons as they land, because the short range weapons will also start firing. However, this also works on the other side too, attackers will also engage their short range weaponry, adding another task to the pilot, to take care of. Yeah, yeah I know they are THE COORDINATORS, but everyone has it's limits, even they. (believe it or not).
Finally, we reach the landing, to avoid getting a VERY close view of the ground, Mobile Suit pilots have to SLOW DOWN, which gives the attackers a slower moving target, resulting in more holes in the said target. If someone was already slowing down during the fall, they are probably dead. Because I would always prefer a slower moving target over a fast one. (Don't know, maybe it's just me.)
I don't know about the other landing techniques, because i have only seen GS and GSD. So I can't say anything about them.
I think that the option C is good for quickly landing your troops in a safe area and THEN attacking the enemy.
P.S. Maybe I went a little offtopic, but I wanted to write a long post.
There's no point in listening to others. They'll either agree with you or keep saying stupid shit.
- DeltasTaii
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Falling out of the sky when someone's shooting at you is never fun. I don't think you can really hold that against the CE drop pods specifically, since guys jumping out of planes, and any other option ever suffers from the problem of trying to land while people are trying to kill you.
Anyways, B has a very obvious window of usefulness-when you're getting attacked before re-entry. All the other options require you to package the MS up in a transport then drop it (though ZAFT usually has tons of GINNs floating around to cover you), while with the ballute they can fight until the last possible second, and actually are capable of still firing on any targets above them. They're pretty much sitting ducks, but sitting ducks that can fire upwards anyways. I can only recall Kamille and his fancy flying armour doing any particular damage anyways, since if you're close enough to hit anything, your going to be in the same position soon anyways.
Missiles, while worrisome, are pretty dumbfire, and the ones that can hit the upper atmosphere are probably deemed too expensive for taking out MS-in Zeta we don't see them start coming until after the AEUG have abandoned their ballutes, followed by the fighters-of which even the Saberfish do little.
Generally A's the most efficient for just transporting them, C's the best for a surprise attack when you control space, and B works nicely when you're fighting a war up there.
Anyways, B has a very obvious window of usefulness-when you're getting attacked before re-entry. All the other options require you to package the MS up in a transport then drop it (though ZAFT usually has tons of GINNs floating around to cover you), while with the ballute they can fight until the last possible second, and actually are capable of still firing on any targets above them. They're pretty much sitting ducks, but sitting ducks that can fire upwards anyways. I can only recall Kamille and his fancy flying armour doing any particular damage anyways, since if you're close enough to hit anything, your going to be in the same position soon anyways.
Missiles, while worrisome, are pretty dumbfire, and the ones that can hit the upper atmosphere are probably deemed too expensive for taking out MS-in Zeta we don't see them start coming until after the AEUG have abandoned their ballutes, followed by the fighters-of which even the Saberfish do little.
Generally A's the most efficient for just transporting them, C's the best for a surprise attack when you control space, and B works nicely when you're fighting a war up there.
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There's quite a few atmosphere re-entry-capable MS really...not A LOT in the UC era, but mainly from other eras...
The MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam
The RX-107 TR-4 [Dandelion]
RX-93 Nu Gundam (assuming)
RX-93-2n Hi-Nu Gundam (also assuming given the normal one seemed to)
The F90P Gundam F90 Plunge Type
The F90II-I Gundam F90II Intercept Type
The XM-X1 (F97) Crossbone Gundam X-1 Kai (to fight the Divinidad)
The XM-X3 (F97) Crossbone Gundam X-3 (same)
The ZM-S09G Tomliat
Most, if not all, Gundams from G Gundam and Gundam Wing (at least Main Character ones)
Most, if not all, Phase Shift-capable Gundams from SEED and SEED Destiny.
...not sure of any others, though.
The MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam
The RX-107 TR-4 [Dandelion]
RX-93 Nu Gundam (assuming)
RX-93-2n Hi-Nu Gundam (also assuming given the normal one seemed to)
The F90P Gundam F90 Plunge Type
The F90II-I Gundam F90II Intercept Type
The XM-X1 (F97) Crossbone Gundam X-1 Kai (to fight the Divinidad)
The XM-X3 (F97) Crossbone Gundam X-3 (same)
The ZM-S09G Tomliat
Most, if not all, Gundams from G Gundam and Gundam Wing (at least Main Character ones)
Most, if not all, Phase Shift-capable Gundams from SEED and SEED Destiny.
...not sure of any others, though.
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
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Shoot, I accidentally erased the part saying "without ballute packs or extra protection-type things like the RX-78-2 did" (not including Flying Shields and such)
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
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- Haros_Pet_Kat
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Like others have said, I would have to go with Option D: use a Waverider or a transformable mobile suit. I am surprised the Waverider idea that the Mk. II used didn't migrate to grunt suits, considering that sleds are widely produced.
Chris wrote:Haha...you jackanapes have all been fooled by my ninja editing skills!
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Haros_Pet_Kat wrote:Like others have said, I would have to go with Option D: use a Waverider or a transformable mobile suit. I am surprised the Waverider idea that the Mk. II used didn't migrate to grunt suits, considering that sleds are widely produced.
Well, who would implement it? There really aren't too many big conflicts on Earth after that, and by the time of Victory every ship can just re-enter Earth by itself, so nobody bothers with the waverider thing. Between UC0089 and 0150s there is no major conflict on Earth. Well UC0091 Meaningless War I think might be on Earth, but I don't know anything about that manga. And they used Bawoos, which did have waverider modes.
- Haros_Pet_Kat
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I guess that's true.Well, who would implement it? There really aren't too many big conflicts on Earth after that, and by the time of Victory every ship can just re-enter Earth by itself, so nobody bothers with the waverider thing.
Chris wrote:Haha...you jackanapes have all been fooled by my ninja editing skills!