Better support unit- Guntank or Zock?

The future is now. This is the place for mecha and science.

Moderators: ShadowCell, Heretic, mcred23, EZero8, Draco Starcloud, SNT1, Kenji

HalfDemonInuyasha
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:51 am
Location: Albany, NY
Contact:

reply

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:36 pm

Well, given how delicate aircraft are compared to more armored MS, even a near-miss could result in disabling planes if not destroy them outright (fighters or whatever).

There's also the fact that, given it's amphibious, the high possibility of facing large battleships and/or submarines. The Zock would merely have to move itself directly under the ships where they, most likely, have no defense except for their armor (no machine guns and torpedos wouldn't be able to reach them except if fired from other ships nearby and such).

One or two clean shots in the right part(s) of the ship could effectively sink it. I suppose there's also the possibility of mines in the water which it could be used to clear a path for other MS.
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet

User avatar
Rei Murasame
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: The interim between Life and Death.
Contact:

Post by Rei Murasame » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:35 pm

However none of that is a 'support role', and if you want to neutralise sea mines without using a massive Zock particle cannon to shoot them and alert everyone within a 20mile radius that you are there (ironically resulting in you getting bombarded by none other than Guntanks and Guncannon Harbour Defence Types), then just send a Gogg or two, since they can silently neutralise them...
"And I... should contemplate this change...
To ease the pain.
And I... should step out of the rain...
And turn away..."

User avatar
Gelgoog Jager
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1607
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:09 pm

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:38 pm

razgriz wrote:229 tons!! your kidding thats almost twice as heavy as a boeing 747. what the heck were they feeding that thing? also why have that cannon mounted stationary on the head? didn't they realize it would be near useless if they planned to use the zock for land ops or at least part time land ops.
Actually the one on the head is a phonon maser, which is supposed to be the underwater equivalent of a laser, which means that it was probably meant to either attack ships from below as already mentioned or use it to attack targets in front of it while cruising underwater (FvsZ might actually be a good example in this case).

Gundam official does name it as phonon maser, but Mahq has it as photon maser for the Zock, and on the other hand it also uses phonon maser for the GOOhN, so I suppose it might by a typo, but if someone could clarify this it would be appreciated.

User avatar
Rei Murasame
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: The interim between Life and Death.
Contact:

Post by Rei Murasame » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:42 pm

'Phonon', has to be a typo, because that's not a word, while 'Photon' is a word, and a relevant one at that.
"And I... should contemplate this change...
To ease the pain.
And I... should step out of the rain...
And turn away..."

Paul McCartney Jr
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Defending Linda McCarntey's cryogenic chamber
Contact:

Re: reply

Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:03 pm

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Well, given how delicate aircraft are compared to more armored MS, even a near-miss could result in disabling planes if not destroy them outright (fighters or whatever).

There's also the fact that, given it's amphibious, the high possibility of facing large battleships and/or submarines. The Zock would merely have to move itself directly under the ships where they, most likely, have no defense except for their armor (no machine guns and torpedos wouldn't be able to reach them except if fired from other ships nearby and such).

One or two clean shots in the right part(s) of the ship could effectively sink it. I suppose there's also the possibility of mines in the water which it could be used to clear a path for other MS.
The Battleship and submarines that would flank it have depth charges.

And thats not a support role either

User avatar
Cardi Doorl
Traitor Villain
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: 대한민국 대전광역시

Post by Cardi Doorl » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:25 pm

Rei Murasame wrote:'Phonon', has to be a typo, because that's not a word, while 'Photon' is a word, and a relevant one at that.
Not quite.

And again.

Seems to be the sound equivalent of a photon.
RPG TRINARY: Gaia
Die Anti-brutale Kraft: Cardi Doorl


Make sure to check out the RPG section!

User avatar
domtropen
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:07 am

Post by domtropen » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:09 am

In movie II that gun on the top of Zock's head can fire on land, so that gun can also be used to shoot or glance overhead target.

Zock's empty weight is 167.6 T.

User avatar
razgriz
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:10 am
Location: San Francisco Colony

Post by razgriz » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:16 am

the zock still bugs me as poorly designed amphibian ms. they couldve trimmed it down and added more useful turrets. the gogg types seemed to be the real epitome of amphibian ms design. hmm, leads me to wonder if anyone has tried to improve the design of the zock the same way everyone tries to help out old mr ugly the zakrello?
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

User avatar
domtropen
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:07 am

Post by domtropen » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:51 am

As said earlier by Gelgoog Jäger Zock from Journey to Jaburo has major facelift:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/lwc/msm-10.htm

This design may make it more mobile on land but slower underwater though. Overall by this new design it should become MA :twisted: Maybe it should be used for stampede?

User avatar
razgriz
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:10 am
Location: San Francisco Colony

Post by razgriz » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:02 am

hmm the JtoJ zock does look more intimidating less and less ugly id lose the giant beak though. what purpose does that serve? i would hope that they give it a minovsky hover unit though because that thing looks about as mobile as the great wall of china.
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

User avatar
domtropen
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:07 am

Post by domtropen » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:19 am

A mobile Great Wall would be fearsome :D

Anyway there is no small Minovsky craft at OYW time yet, but thrusters are placed under that skirt/beak [Zock has no back so you can imagine having Dom's skirt on both side of the body :roll: ] and have more than enough brute force to make Zock hover.

User avatar
Rei Murasame
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: The interim between Life and Death.
Contact:

Post by Rei Murasame » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:07 am

Cardi Doorl wrote:
Rei Murasame wrote:'Phonon', has to be a typo, because that's not a word, while 'Photon' is a word, and a relevant one at that.
Not quite.

And again.

Seems to be the sound equivalent of a photon.
Ah, that's pretty interesting stuff, I guess I was too fast with that one. It leads to the question though, if they really did mean 'phonon', how would it be used for those kind of weapons?
"And I... should contemplate this change...
To ease the pain.
And I... should step out of the rain...
And turn away..."

User avatar
razgriz
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:10 am
Location: San Francisco Colony

Post by razgriz » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:34 am

i dunno, they are combining sound and microwave energy...

so maybe creating an ultrahigh frequency resonance that when coupled with a field of intense microwave radiation centered by a magnetic field it creates a conical swath of directed high energy radiowaves which travel unhindered through water able to collide with their intended target with a destructive reaction of sonic heat. 8) yeah im bs-ing but its jus a thought. :lol:
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

User avatar
Lert
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:19 am

Post by Lert » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

That's what they call ISBS, Razgriz. :D Impressive Sounding B-S. And it fuels most Sci Fi shows. Star Trek and Star Wars are built on ISBS.
Be alert. The world needs more Lerts.

User avatar
razgriz
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:10 am
Location: San Francisco Colony

Post by razgriz » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:16 am

believe me ive got a ton of isbs for u. it comes from spending half your life trying to come up with a sci-fi epic. want to hear isbs about how hyperspace travel works? let me know :lol:
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

User avatar
Gelgoog Jager
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1607
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:09 pm

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:37 pm

I already mentioned this, but since I have only seen the movies, and the Zock only appears a few moments, I don't really know how fast or maneuverable it is supposed to be.

Can someone who has seen the TV series please tell me how was the mobility of the Zock?

User avatar
razgriz
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:10 am
Location: San Francisco Colony

Post by razgriz » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:56 am

the only judge i have is from playing the zock in fed vs zeon dx. btw it looks pretty decent in captured fed colors. :D
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

HalfDemonInuyasha
Retconned MSV Ace
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:51 am
Location: Albany, NY
Contact:

reply

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:33 pm

Yeah, but obviously games aren't too reliable. As much as I like Federation vs. Zeon (and Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam, lots of replay value and such), some of it is a bit exaggerated in terms of melee combat.
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet

User avatar
Rei Murasame
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: The interim between Life and Death.
Contact:

Post by Rei Murasame » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:05 pm

Gelgoog Jäger wrote:I already mentioned this, but since I have only seen the movies, and the Zock only appears a few moments, I don't really know how fast or maneuverable it is supposed to be.

Can someone who has seen the TV series please tell me how was the mobility of the Zock?
From what I remember, it moves pretty well in a straight line (it was absolutely nowhere near as fast as a Dom), but in the cramped cave-entrance it didn't have much space to try at being manoevrable. Everyone just fired madly at it, it massacred a few GMs, and then Amuro destroyed it.

There may have been others present in the Jaburo assault though, since it was a really confused situation, with all kinds of mobile suits moving around everywhere.
"And I... should contemplate this change...
To ease the pain.
And I... should step out of the rain...
And turn away..."

Paul McCartney Jr
Creepy Bishonen
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Defending Linda McCarntey's cryogenic chamber
Contact:

Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:10 pm

razgriz wrote:obviously even though it is a video game in fed vs zeon dx, that was my fave tactic when i had to use the guntank. move up close and BOOM. say hello to my 2 little friends. :twisted:
I did that a lot too but there's no way a Guntank could turn that fast

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest