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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Considering that the both of them are like mobile batteries, which one would be better for supporting their respective suits while in the vanguard? I know Zock is the better close range choice on account of it having claws. Which would do better supporting a batallion against the enemy?

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:35 pm 
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I think the Guntank makes for a better support unit, because its cannons can fire over the Guntank's allies to hit enemy forces. Plus, it's not limited in its operation time by overheating issues. The Zock on the other hand needs a direct line of sight to its targets, so its allies would need to leave large gaps in their formations for the Zock to fire through. Also, once it's fired its Mega Particle Cannons enough, it will overheat and need to get a fresh supply of water to cool itself.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Yeah, I also think the Guntank is a much better choice. Even with its limited ammunition supply, that is easily taken care of since such a unit would, most likely, be near a base where it can be re-supplied pretty quickly. Who knows where a Zock would get recharged and such.

As mentioned, the Guntank has a wider range of fire by being able to change the firing arc for its 180mm cannons and even its "hands" and such while the Zock can only fire forwards and/or backwards and/or upwards while needing a good line of sight. And, also as mentioned, the Zock will need to be near a good supply of water to help cool its reactor if it wants to keep firing.

The Guntank is also a bit more versatile in terms of weaponry. The Guntank being capable of having machine guns, missile launchers, rocket launchers, etc while the Zock is pretty much stuck with its 8 mega particle cannons and maser gun. Sure it can do a little bit of melee combat, but its large size and bulk would prevent it from being very effective.

I'd guess that that is the reason why there are 4 mega particle cannons on its back since, otherwise, if a MS got behind it, it'd be easy pickings. The Guntank is also able to overcome that small problem by being able to change the direction of its torso, so it can move forward while turning around and fire at whatever gets behind it.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:46 pm 
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Actually the Guntank can't turn it's torso IIRC the MP version could though since it didn't have a core fighter.

EDIT: :D A double ninja...

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Last edited by RGM-79 GM on Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:47 pm 
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
The Guntank is also able to overcome that small problem by being able to change the direction of its torso, so it can move forward while turning around and fire at whatever gets behind it.
I think that was only the Mass Production guntank that could do that. I seem to remember that the Proto-type Guntank couldn't because of the Core Fighter.

EDIT: Ninja'd. T_T

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:47 pm 
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I'm pretty sure the Guntank's coreblock system stops it from being able to twist it's torso.

I still think it's a better long range support unit tho besides that slight nuance.

EDIT: Wheres the zoo keeper?? Someone should put all these ninjas back in their cages! :P

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:52 pm 
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The Guntank II was also capable. Pretty much any of them except the original Prototype and the much later RXR-44 Guntank R-44 were able to. (but then again, it "compensated" by being able to become a MS).

I didn't really think JUST the prototype though (despite the link). I was thinking more in the Guntank line in general. :)

Too bad there weren't many others, though :cry:

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:53 pm 
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I forgot about the Guntank II. Yeah that could also turn it's torso.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:59 pm 
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The Guntank always wins in this scenario, because the Zock has design flaws that hinder its operation, whereas the Guntank doesn't, making it more reliable.

I can take a Guntank into the desert, but it's guaranteed that can't be done with a Zock. Also, the Zock is huge and ungainly, and must cost of fortune to repair. Also, the Guntank is for general use, while the Zock was designed for the specific purpose of attacking Jaburo, and as such isn't much good at anything else.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:34 pm 
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The Guntank is deadly accurate from long distances, and the Zock is a joke. That about sums it up.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:39 pm 
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Off topic for a bit, if I were an EF pilot and lived through the OYW, I'd probably be laughing my ass off at half of the Zeon MAs.

And, isn't the Zock limited to water combat?

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:44 pm 
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Yuusha Tokkyu Might Gaine wrote:
Off topic for a bit, if I were an EF pilot and lived through the OYW, I'd probably be laughing my *** off at half of the Zeon MAs.

And, isn't the Zock limited to water combat?


Well, it's amphibious, so can be land or water...but yeah, its combat effectiveness on land isn't that great.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:10 pm 
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Yuusha Tokkyu Might Gaine wrote:
Off topic for a bit, if I were an EF pilot and lived through the OYW, I'd probably be laughing my *** off at half of the Zeon MAs.

And, isn't the Zock limited to water combat?


The same can be said about the guntank being limited to ground combat.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:14 pm 
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Phantomexe87 wrote:
Yuusha Tokkyu Might Gaine wrote:
Off topic for a bit, if I were an EF pilot and lived through the OYW, I'd probably be laughing my *** off at half of the Zeon MAs.

And, isn't the Zock limited to water combat?


The same can be said about the guntank being limited to ground combat.
Considering that on Earth, most if not all MS to MS combat takes place on land, I don't see an artillery unit being confined to land a problem.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Wingnut wrote:
Considering that on Earth, most if not all MS to MS combat takes place on land, I don't see an artillery unit being confined to land a problem.


The hundreds of amphibious mobile suits would beg to differ. Better both land and water, than just land, regarding the OYW in any case.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:20 pm 
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Irrelevent. Neither unit the OP mentions is really ment to get in close and engage the enemy at close range. The question is which one would be better supporting other MS, and the answer to that question is the Guntank.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Then again, it really would depend on the situation, and what terran you're fighting in I dobut the Guntank can fight well in water anyway. The Zock is only good as an underwater support that said the Guntank is indeed the better choice here

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:24 pm 
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Wingnut wrote:
Irrelevent. Neither unit the OP mentions is really ment to get in close and engage the enemy at close range. The question is which one would be better supporting other MS, and the answer to that question is the Guntank.


No, your opinion is the Guntank. The Zock would perform well in support on both land and water, while the Guntank only on land. The Guntank also has limited mobility, and considerably less firepower. While it can shoot over its allies, the Zock still packs a much greater punch, and is therefore the better supporting MS. Not to mention the Guntank is a sitting duck, you'd spend more time saving it from being attacked, than it does supporting you.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Phantomexe87 wrote:
Wingnut wrote:
Irrelevent. Neither unit the OP mentions is really ment to get in close and engage the enemy at close range. The question is which one would be better supporting other MS, and the answer to that question is the Guntank.


No, your opinion is the Guntank. The Zock would perform well in support on both land and water, while the Guntank only on land. The Guntank also has limited mobility, and considerably less firepower. While it can shoot over its allies, the Zock still packs a much greater punch, and is therefore the better supporting MS.
It's also a hell of a lot more vulnerable to enemy fire than the Guntank and will likely be a focus for GMs to target and eliminate quickly. While the Guntank may become an equal focus for Zeon forces, the Guntank didn't have to expose itself to enemy counterattack when it fired so the GMs have a direct line of attack on the Zock and will make short work of it between shots, while the Zeon units have to fight through a wall of GMs to get to the Guntank.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:38 pm 
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Granted the Guntank would have the element of surprise, but its lack of mobility still limits its effectiveness. This is also assuming, that the Zock has no support, between shots, the units it is supporting would give it cover from the sides. The Zock could at least defend itself from enemy fire, while the Guntank... well, an extreme example would be what Norris Packard did. The Guntank would have to be guarded at all times, while the Zock would support its battallion on the front. Not to mention the psychological difference, the Zock is a gigantic moderatly well rounded monster of a suit, while the Guntank is a glorified turret. For support I would go with the Zock, as it packs enough firepower to go it alone, it's debatably overkill for support.


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