Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

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Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

I was recently wondering a few things about these weapon systems.

Do they act more or less like a more powerful Beam Cannon or do they actually have an "explosive effect" on impact? I'm guessing it's the first one, but I just haven't seen their use enough to be sure. Though it might be hard to tell since generally what they would hit explodes anyway.

Secondly, aside from raw damage, do they really have many advantages over a normal bazooka type weapon? I recall from F91 that it was fired pretty quickly, and I'd guess that they have a greater number of shots. The reason I'm asking this one is because, in Victory, MS tended to have both bazookas and beam bazookas listed in their stats. My guess for the bazookas still being used is in part the variety of munition types, but I'd also say the risk of hitting a reactor is highly likely as well.

Otherwise, any random bits of info on them would be great, but I'm not sure much was ever released about them.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

Don't quote me on this, but I would have to guess that they launch a much denser particle beam then the standard rifle, allowing them to cause more damage, but still maintain a rate of fire faster then say a beam cannon.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

I quickly watched over the ending of F91 where we see a beam launcher used a bit, and they're shown acting just like a normal beam, rather than having some kind of explosive effect like a normal bazooka. However, their use in F91 is very minor, so you may want to check Victory to see if that has any other examples of a beam launcher being used. As Gundam Official notes, the beam launcher's beam is more powerful (And somewhat larger) than a normal beam rifle shot, which can certainly be useful.
RGM-79G GM Command wrote:Secondly, aside from raw damage, do they really have many advantages over a normal bazooka type weapon? I recall from F91 that it was fired pretty quickly, and I'd guess that they have a greater number of shots. The reason I'm asking this one is because, in Victory, MS tended to have both bazookas and beam bazookas listed in their stats. My guess for the bazookas still being used is in part the variety of munition types, but I'd also say the risk of hitting a reactor is highly likely as well.
They doubtlessly can carry more ammo. A conventional bazooka is obviously limited to the amount of rockets you can carry in a clip and the number of clips you can carry, which will keep your number of rounds down by quite a bit (And I would think MS of that period being smaller doesn't help that). However, with beam weapons by this time almost always drawing power directly from the generator of a MS, a beam launcher/bazooka will have basically unlimited ammo (Although, I would assume they require more power than a standard beam rifle, so there may be a somewhat more defined limit on their number of shots over a period of time, compared to near limitless beam rifles).

Regular bazookas probably remain a part of a mobile suits list of weapons just to give them some kind of conventional weapon, in case, say, they find themselves fighting something with an I-Field and need a standard weapon. The idea of using them for non-standard munitions is probably there as well, but even when bazookas were extremely common, they almost never used anything other than conventional explosive rockets, so I don't see that as the main reason they remain around.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

Well the denser beam makes sense, since they have a lower velocity, but I don't think that would make them fire faster then the average MS mounted beam cannon.
mcred23 wrote:I quickly watched over the ending of F91 where we see a beam launcher used a bit, and they're shown acting just like a normal beam, rather than having some kind of explosive effect like a normal bazooka. However, their use in F91 is very minor, so you may want to check Victory to see if that has any other examples of a beam launcher being used. As Gundam Official notes, the beam launcher's beam is more powerful (And somewhat larger) than a normal beam rifle shot, which can certainly be useful.
Alright, not very far into Victory at the moment, so I hadn't known that they were used much more compared to in F91.
mcred23 wrote:They doubtlessly can carry more ammo. A conventional bazooka is obviously limited to the amount of rockets you can carry in a clip and the number of clips you can carry, which will keep your number of rounds down by quite a bit (And I would think MS of that period being smaller doesn't help that). However, with beam weapons by this time almost always drawing power directly from the generator of a MS, a beam launcher/bazooka will have basically unlimited ammo (Although, I would assume they require more power than a standard beam rifle, so there may be a somewhat more defined limit on their number of shots over a period of time, compared to near limitless beam rifles).

Regular bazookas probably remain a part of a mobile suits list of weapons just to give them some kind of conventional weapon, in case, say, they find themselves fighting something with an I-Field and need a standard weapon. The idea of using them for non-standard munitions is probably there as well, but even when bazookas were extremely common, they almost never used anything other than conventional explosive rockets, so I don't see that as the main reason they remain around.
Well, actually that was one reason I brought it up, the Victory itself had the beam rifle run out of shots while the unit still had power (Or it had run out of Minovsky Particles I guess.), and unless that's pretty much specific to the Victory and not an issue with other units of the time (As I said, didn't see much of it yet so I don't know for sure.) so I wasn't sure what to make of that. Though you're probably right about a limit of some kind, on top of what you mentioned they likely generate a lot of heat as well.

True, I guess the only non-standard munitions (That I can think of.) were used in Zeta, and even that was uncommon. Plus I guess they probably wanted a heavy weapon that wouldn't cause the reactor to go critical. Anyway thanks, guess I'll need to check out more of Victory to see them in action.

EDIT: I saw the Tomliat's using a bazooka, it looked like it was a collapsible bazooka. When they were fired, they both looked (In that the shots were green.) and sounded like beam weapons, however they also caused an explosion when they hit the ground and trees. But from that limited use, I'm still not sure if those things are beam based weapons or not since the Tomliat has two bazookas and I don't know which would be which.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

Well, running out of power isn't a surprise as many MS, even by Victory, still simply used Energy Cap system for their beam weapons rather than everything converting to Energy Pacs. Meaning each of such beam weapon has a "preset" number of shots, depending on the amount of charge it can hold (power being itself + MS reactor), before the charge depletes and the MS needs to return to a carrier to get it recharged.

As said, beam launchers and beam bazookas are really just larger, denser beams (VSBRs being capable of, when the mega particles are slowed, pretty large beam blasts). Explosions seem to simply be for looks (most of the time) as things would be a little boring if they simply seared into the ground while simply leaving a smoking hole, lol.



I'd think the only real "unlimited" ammo ones would be ones that have their weapons directly connected to the reactor like possibly the Z II, VSBR-equipped MS, and such.

Another constant thing with keeping conventional bazookas and other weapons around is simply cost and maintenance. Much smaller groups like the AEUG, League Militaire, and such usually try to do what they can to save themselves money (besides some prototypes here and there) which is why they tend to share weaponry and/or use stuff that's cheaper, readily available, and easier to maintain.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Well, running out of power isn't a surprise as many MS, even by Victory, still simply used Energy Cap system for their beam weapons rather than everything converting to Energy Pacs. Meaning each of such beam weapon has a "preset" number of shots, depending on the amount of charge it can hold (power being itself + MS reactor), before the charge depletes and the MS needs to return to a carrier to get it recharged.
Actually, that isn't quite the case. As Mark mentioned here (And in this post later in that thread), mobile suits fairly early on in history had the power to recharge their beam weapons in the middle of combat, basically meaning that they can have unlimited ammo. That's why E-Packs aren't widely used, most MS have the power to provide their weapon with all the ammo it needs, so they can just use fixed E-Caps (Which I would think are cheaper). I'd imagine that almost every MS by the F91 and Victory eras would be able to do this, although beam weapons are far more powerful as well, which can be a problem, and beam launchers/bazookas would require even more, so there may be some issue with them keeping the weapons ready with Minovsky Particles to fire.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Well, running out of power isn't a surprise as many MS, even by Victory, still simply used Energy Cap system for their beam weapons rather than everything converting to Energy Pacs. Meaning each of such beam weapon has a "preset" number of shots, depending on the amount of charge it can hold (power being itself + MS reactor), before the charge depletes and the MS needs to return to a carrier to get it recharged.
Well I can understand that they use them, their E-Caps are better then the old ones, and E-Packs would take up space and increase the weight of the very small and light units. It seems like they have about 30-50 shots for a beam rifle, though I'm not sure what would limit them if they get supplied from the reactor.
HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Explosions seem to simply be for looks (most of the time) as things would be a little boring if they simply seared into the ground while simply leaving a smoking hole, lol.
True enough, just made me wonder if they used less stable reactions to cause greater damage or something.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Another constant thing with keeping conventional bazookas and other weapons around is simply cost and maintenance. Much smaller groups like the AEUG, League Militaire, and such usually try to do what they can to save themselves money (besides some prototypes here and there) which is why they tend to share weaponry and/or use stuff that's cheaper, readily available, and easier to maintain.
They are also "safer" when it comes to hitting a reactor as well as in or around colonies though, and they're probably easier to understand for the inexperienced. Though one very odd thing, is that they don't seem to be meant to be reloaded in combat. I know MS of the time need to cut down on space and weight, but it seems rather odd to expect them to bring only what's loaded in the weapon at the moment.

I just wish there was more to go on for these things.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

Though, IIRC, wasn't it said that the process was also pretty slow in building up the energy? At least earlier in UC anyway. (I can get how it'd be easier later given the average MS had a reactor of 4000+ kW.) Such a problem would be overcome easier if directly connected to the reactor itself, I'd imagine.

EDIT: Yeah, it does seem weird that you never seem to see conventional bazookas reloaded by MS in mid-battle. Then again, they also were made more for anti-ship roles (as the MS-04 Zaku simulations learned after its machine gun development) and not really for fighting MS, so I'd guess the 6-7+ shells would be more than enough to cripple or destroy most battleships if shot in the right areas, especially the engines or bridge.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Though, IIRC, wasn't it said that the process was also pretty slow in building up the energy? At least earlier in UC anyway. (I can get how it'd be easier later given the average MS had a reactor of 4000+ kW.) Such a problem would be overcome easier if directly connected to the reactor itself, I'd imagine.
I think that was from the GM MG model kit. Pretty sure it was 45 minutes for the Beam Spray Gun. But I'm sure it is much faster by the time of Victory, which makes it even more strange to me that Victory was unable to fire.
HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:EDIT: Yeah, it does seem weird that you never seem to see conventional bazookas reloaded by MS in mid-battle. Then again, they also were made more for anti-ship roles (as the MS-04 Zaku simulations learned after its machine gun development) and not really for fighting MS, so I'd guess the 6-7+ shells would be more than enough to cripple or destroy most battleships if shot in the right areas, especially the engines or bridge.
Well, I don't think they were made more for that so much as they were the best weapon (At the time.) for it. In the shows, as I recall, bazookas were mostly shown to be used in MS vs MS fights rather then MS going for ships, if anything they tried to leave ships to fight each other. You know, after the early stages of the OYW. But one thing is that the Nu used a clip rather then a magazine so it wouldn't have been able to practically reload in combat while most MS of the time had magazines and they had plenty of space.

Though another reason for the lack of this can also be why they moved back to E-Caps. Like said before the MS themselves have little space, and want low weights so they don't carry much ammo, but they also use Beam Shields, which while arguably the best defensive system for MS, it prevents them from using shield mounted weapons and doesn't give them another place to store magazines. But considering the advantages of beam weapons and beam shields compared to the advantages of metal shields and having more ammo for non-beams, I don't think they were wrong for deciding what they did.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

RGM-79G GM Command wrote:
HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Though, IIRC, wasn't it said that the process was also pretty slow in building up the energy? At least earlier in UC anyway. (I can get how it'd be easier later given the average MS had a reactor of 4000+ kW.) Such a problem would be overcome easier if directly connected to the reactor itself, I'd imagine.
I think that was from the GM MG model kit. Pretty sure it was 45 minutes for the Beam Spray Gun. But I'm sure it is much faster by the time of Victory, which makes it even more strange to me that Victory was unable to fire.
For what they are worth, the MSG novels mention that the Gundam could actually recharge its beam rifle, but it took so long (IIRC, 20 to 30 minutes) that it's obviously impracticl for a real combat situation. However, by the end of the OYW, we've already got one MS (The Alex) that can recharge it's beam rifle, and by 0087 we've got the Marasai as a mass production type suit that can do it too. For Victory, I've often heard it mention that the beam weapons of that time are quite powerful, so perhaps the higher energy demands can outpace what the reactor can put out, leading to pilots running low on ammo at points.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

It could be increased Beam power demands by the weapons, but also consider that as Early as F91 and almost constantly after most general Mobile suits will also be funneling a hefty chuink of their Reactor's Minovsky Particle output to feed their Beams shields; it may be that Weapon recharge is prioritised secondary to defence.

in the case of the Victory and V2, there's also the Minvosky Flight system/Minovsky Drive which will also be leeching substantial amounts of M-Particles from the reactors, as well as the beam shields/mega beam shield if equipped, meaning even less to go round for weapons recharging
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

could be that instead of it running out of energy that rapid firing for a beam bazooka strains/damages the guns internal components eventually rendering it useless after a certain number of shots. just some wild accusations/comments/whatever to toss about.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

Bazookas are hard to aim, esp. in space against MS. This is why GMs had an advantage over Doms. I imagine that beam bazookas add accuracy to power. Battleships, on the other hand, are simply too big to miss.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

it's not that a bazooka is overly hard to aim, it's that it's a slow moving projectile, especially when one considers how fast and agile mobile suits are suppose to be in space.
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Re: Questions about beam launchers/beam bazookas.

In regards to the earlier posts about later UC switching back to e-caps...

I might be wrong on this, but aren't they utilizing a hybrid system? I recall a particular set of lineart for the Victory's beam rifle that showcased it with an e-pac - the portion on the underside of the end of the rifle very similar in shape to the GP series or Mark II, etc. I don't have the lineart on hand but it showed the entire breakdown of the rifle into a pistol, not to mention coming off in the Master Grade kit.

Furthermore if you look at the majority of beam rifle lineart you can find plenty of e-pac looking extensions all over - the various CV grunts in F91 using balls, for instance.

I was pretty sure the idea here was that while they could recharge the e-pac themselves, the potential existed for them to plug in another if they absolutely needed a full recharge on the rifle. Of course I don't recall any of them ever actually carrying or changing it out in the animation, but...
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