A MS remote weapons question...

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A MS remote weapons question...

Post by Cypher » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:25 pm

I was on my way to class this morning, and a thought hit me.

With all the uses of remote attack weapons like bits, funnels and DRAGOONs in Gundam as a whole, was there ever any mention of how far these weapons could operate away from their user ?
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Post by Hyakushiki » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:44 pm

I can't seem to find anything that point to an actual range for remote weapons but bits and funnels can operate beyond visual ranges so does that
mean beyond the range visual sensors as well.
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Post by EZero8 » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:48 pm

There are cases in which certain remote weapons are wired to the unit, and thus the remote weapons could only go out as far as the chord would allow them to. For example, the Neue Ziel's claw arms are wire-guided, and thus they'd have limited range.

However, for more conventional Newtype bits and funnels, I'm guessing that the telepathic link is limitless and can go well beyond visual ranges.
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Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:14 pm

They'd have to concentrate real hard then

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Post by Laevatein » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:33 pm

That's what the Psycommu System is there for: to amplify their telepathic links so as to increase their range without straining the pilot too much.

And on topic, Lalah Sune was shown destroying EF ships in Solomon from beyond visual range (the reason for the Federation's initial confusion when their ships started blowing up for no reason). So I'd say that despite not having a concrete figure to cite, that remote weapons can operate pretty far.

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Post by Hyakushiki » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:35 pm

It wouldn't be that hard, newtypes can sense events happening miles away.
I guess the only real limit would be the power supply of the bits or funnels
they're using.
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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:08 am

^--and their newtype abilities, along with the range of the remote weapons. A funnel can't travel very far because of it's compact size, so I doubt it would leave the general area of the MS.

A bit, being considerably larger, could go a bit further, I think. Remember, they have to travel to the target, fire, and return to the MS. IIRC the Elmeth's bit range was several kilometers--well outside of visual/sensor range.
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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:25 am

I haven't seen any sort specific limit to distance, if there is one at all.

Considering their already great distance of travel, I can't even begin to guess how far the Geymalk's range is with its Mother Funnels + Child Funnels.
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Post by razgriz » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:01 am

obviously its dependent on the number of funnels you are equipped with but it is probably the pilot's decision not to have them stray too far just to be able to have that kind of perimeter protection and also not to risk the funnels getting isolated and shot down, better to keep them close to form a wall of near unstoppable all range fire.
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Post by Cypher » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:06 am

Hmm, thanks for the replies.

So its more or less assumed that the remote weapons have no range limit at all then.
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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:07 pm

No, they DO have a range limit. We just don't know what it is.
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Post by Cardi Doorl » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:15 pm

Whatever the limit is no doubt depends on a large number of factors.

If we ignore limits imposed by fuel/energy used by the remote weapon, then we still have to think about the remote weapon control system being used (as they likely vary from machine to machine - and I'm sure not all psycommu systems are created exactly equal) as well as the strength of the user's Newtype ability.
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Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:08 pm

Mwulf wrote:IIRC the Elmeth's bit range was several kilometers--well outside of visual/sensor range.
Several kilometers is peanuts in space. Definately within visual range.

The Elmeth's bit attack on EFSF warships docked at Solomon is still the longest-range remote weapon attack I can recall offhand... but I have no idea how long range it actually was.
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Post by razgriz » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:57 pm

we all know that light travels at 186,000 mps but any idea how fast a thought can travel through space? i guess thats one way to determine funnel range, how fast that funnel can get the pilot's impulse.
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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 pm

Several kilometers is peanuts in space. Definately within visual range.
If the bits or units were HUGE, yeah. But they're small. And they don't have any lighting.... they'd be next to impossible to see from 100 meters away, let alone a few kilometers.
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Post by Wingnut » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:17 pm

Mwulf wrote:
Several kilometers is peanuts in space. Definately within visual range.
If the bits or units were HUGE, yeah. But they're small. And they don't have any lighting.... they'd be next to impossible to see from 100 meters away, let alone a few kilometers.
Thruster trails would provide a light source. That and Newtypes seem to be able to know where their funnels/bits are in space without seeing them anyway so the point is moot.
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Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:33 pm

Mwulf wrote:If the bits or units were HUGE, yeah. But they're small. And they don't have any lighting.... they'd be next to impossible to see from 100 meters away, let alone a few kilometers.
As Wingnut points out, finding one's own remote weapons doesn't seem to be a problem; either the Newtype can sense them, or the psycommu system keeps track of them automatically. (Personally, I'd bet on the second, but there's no real evidence that I know of that suggests either way.) Something like a mobile suit or warship, however, would be visible from a much larger distance than a remote weapon (and it was warships that Lalah was going after with her attack on Solomon, IIRC).

Thinking about this question a bit... As far as I know, remote weapons don't carry any sensors of their own, and Newtypes don't seem to be able to sense anything not directly interacting with them at the time (ie, they'd be able to sense the guy shooting at them from behind, but not the random grunt pilot flying around on the other side of the battlefield) so I'm not sure if Newtype perception would be very useful during an ultra-long range remote weapon attack...

This question can really be broken down into two seperate questions; what is the maximum possible range for psycommu control of remote weapons, and what is the maximum effective range for remote weapon attacks in a battle? We simply don't know the answer in the first case; there isn't enough information to guess. For the second answer, it depends a lot on the remote weapons in question -- the Geymalk's mother/child funnel system is probably capable of the longest range attacks of any remote weapon we know of, followed by bits like the Elmeth's or Nu Gundam's, with standard small-sized funnels like those equipped by the Qubeley, Jagd Doga, and Sazabi coming in last. I'm basing that on propellant storage -- if something flying through space runs out of reaction mass, it can't go anywhere. Bits like Elmeth's, Nu Gundam's fin funnels, and Geymalk's mother funnels seem to carry a hefty supply of propellant -- and Geymalk's mother funnels can launch its child funnels after that, so it has that much extra long-range capability. But, of course, these are just guesses, so I wouldn't take it as gospel.
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Post by mcred23 » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:12 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:Something like a mobile suit or warship, however, would be visible from a much larger distance than a remote weapon (and it was warships that Lalah was going after with her attack on Solomon, IIRC).
Of course, we have cases in later UC (Such as CCA) where bits and funnels are being sent out over large distances to take out missles that are well beyond visible range.

As for the Lalah thing, it seemed she was trying to go for the ships during her attack on Solomon, but we do see her hitting at least one GM during the attack (Although it's not clear if this was intended or if the beam simply missed a ship and caught the GM).
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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:57 pm

Holy crap, apparently I was talking about one thing and everyone else thought I was talking about something different. :shock:

When I was talking about Funnels/Bits being hard to see... I meant for the ENEMY! Not the pilot of the ms/ma--but the warships and grunts that are being attacked. And just how easy do you think it is to see a tiny point of light in outer space? Good grief. Of course the person controlling the funnels/bits can SENSE them... but see them? Don't be ridiculous.
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Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:01 pm

You think they could make a psychommu system that the pilot mentally coordinated the limbs rather than an remote bit?

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