UC: Beam rifle vs. Mega Particle Cannon

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UC: Beam rifle vs. Mega Particle Cannon

Post by UrbanSniper » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:39 pm

If this has a thread somewhere (tried searching, but got like 87 pages of results and couldn't locate what I was looking for), then please feel free to steer me there and close this one down.

If not, here's my question. What is the difference between beam rifles and mega particle cannons? Is one more powerful than the other? Does one have better penetration than the other? Obviously the particle cannons mounted on the Big Zam are going to be quite a bit more powerful than a beam rifle, but on suits like, say, the Acguy and the Z'Gok, are those comparable to the Gundam's or Guncannon's beam rifles? Thanks in advance.

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Post by Zeis » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:44 pm

As far as I know, a beam cannon/beam gun/mega particle cannon is different from a beam rifle in that it's directly connected to a mobile suit/mobile armor's reactor, and includes a device to compress the Minovsky particles the reactor generates into mega particles.

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Post by Wedge14 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:45 pm

Heres what Gundam Official has to say

MPC

The standard beam weapon of the Universal Century era. When positive and negative Minovsky particles are compressed, they fuse into a new subatomic particle called a mega particle. In the process, a portion of their mass is converted into kinetic energy, giving the mega particle a high initial velocity. These fast-moving mega particles can then be focused into a devastating energy beam.

The mega particle cannon is a formidable weapon. Its energy conversion efficiency is more than four times that of a laser, and since the mega particles are electrically neutral, they are far harder to deflect than a conventional charged particle beam. However, the device's electrical power consumption is very high, and it requires a steady supply of Minovsky particles. As a result, these weapons can initially be used only by warships, mobile armors, and amphibious mobile suits with large water-cooled thermonuclear reactors. After the development of the energy capacitor (E-CAP), the mega particle cannon - in the form of the beam rifle - becomes the standard weapon of all mobile suits.
Beam Rifle

A compact mega particle cannon, comparable to the main guns of a space warship, which can be carried by a mobile suit. The rifle's energy is supplied by an energy capacitor (E-CAP), rather than the mobile suit's own reactor, and this energy supply can only be replenished inside a base or carrier vessel. First developed by the Earth Federation Forces, this weapon is used by the RX-78 Gundam and RX-77 Guncannon, and later by the Principality of Zeon's MS-14 Gelgoog. By the time of the Gryps Conflict, the beam rifle has become standard equipment for all mobile suits.

So a beam rifle is just a MPC compacted?
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Post by UrbanSniper » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:47 pm

Well, that was quite fast and exactly what I was looking for, lol. Thanks guys.

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Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:51 pm

To expand a bit, a mega particle cannon takes Minovksy particles, compresses them into mega particles (a process which takes a steady supply of Minovsky particles and a hefty amount of electrical energy -- both of which can be supplied by a sufficiently powerful Minovsky-Ionesco reactor), and then fires them in that classic beam we all know and love. The problem with this is that it needs a very powerful reactor -- in Mobile Suit Gundam, only warships, mobile armors, and marine mobile suits (which have more powerful water-cooled reactors) have enough power to use mega particle cannons. The advantages of the mega particle cannon are the fact that they have effectively unlimited ammunition (though they require a recharge time between shots to produce more mega particles) and are generally more powerful than beam rifle fire.

A beam rifle works with an e-cap (or, later, an e-pac) that stores Minovsky particles pre-packaged in a high energy state. They're not quite converted to mega particles, but they're very close. This is why the mobile suit firing the beam rifle has to have a sufficiently high reactor output -- they need enough electricity to be able to give the Minovsky particles in the e-cap that final "kick" to become mega particles right before they're fired. The advantage of the beam rifle over the mega particle cannon is the fact that the reactor output can be much, much weaker for a nearly as effective weapon. The disadvantages include the obvious fact that you have a limited amount of ammunition that can't be replaced except by returning to your support ship (though this weakness is somewhat overcome with the invention of e-pacs) and, generally speaking, beam rifles aren't as powerful as mega particle cannons, being a more focused beam.
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Post by Mwulf » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:54 pm

For the purposes of this thread, it's probably best if we all choose to forget about the ridiculously-small-yet-ridiculously-strong Mega Particle Beam Cannon on the ZZ's forehead.... :o
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Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:53 am

Ah, but remember that that had an incredibly long recharge time -- to the point where it could effectively only be fired once per battle. In later UC, when MS reactors became more powerful, it was possible to mount mega particle cannons on mobile suits (the Sazabi has one on its waist, I believe).
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Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:09 pm

A guy Char is with in the first few episodes comments on how Gundam's gun's output is as strong as a ship. (I think its Gadem) Char later tells someone to charge the Mousai's mega particle cannon. I guess that would make them equal?

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Post by Mwulf » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:39 pm

Er... IIRC Char states that his amazement that the Gundam's beam rifle has the power of a battleship cannon... I believe he was referring to it being a beam cannon (and thus more powerful by several degrees than conventional MS weaponry) but I still don't think it's on the scale of a battleship cannon.

Then again, it's possible that the Gundam's BR is just a strong, but lacks the range of warship beam artillery.
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Post by RGM-79 GM » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:44 pm

Yeah I think the beamrifle is weaker also. I think he just meant that it had enough power to destroy a Zaku in one hit like a battleships cannon. Not sure though.
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Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:50 pm

Mwulf wrote:Er... IIRC Char states that his amazement that the Gundam's beam rifle has the power of a battleship cannon... I believe he was referring to it being a beam cannon (and thus more powerful by several degrees than conventional MS weaponry) but I still don't think it's on the scale of a battleship cannon.

Then again, it's possible that the Gundam's BR is just a strong, but lacks the range of warship beam artillery.
You're probably right on that he meant it could down a Zaku2 in one shot.

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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:06 am

Yeah, but the thing is it can also cut through Musais pretty quickly too, which kind of makes me think (at least so far as the OYW is concerned) that it has the same power, but less range (and a slower rate of fire/quantity of shots).
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Post by RGM-79 GM » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:11 am

Even if it can go through Musais it still wouldn't have to be as powerful as a ship's gun. The ship's gun might just be overkill. I don't know for sure though. I mean even if it is weaker than the ship's cannon the heat of a beam is still probably several thousand degrees. Which would melt through most if not all metals rather easy. Again though this is just a guess on my part.
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Post by Mwulf » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:16 am

Right, but wouldn't it make more sense for warships--especially smaller ones like Musais--to have as many of the weakest beam weapons they can fit that are powerful enough to melt through EF ships at a great distance?
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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:32 am

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:Ah, but remember that that had an incredibly long recharge time -- to the point where it could effectively only be fired once per battle. In later UC, when MS reactors became more powerful, it was possible to mount mega particle cannons on mobile suits (the Sazabi has one on its waist, I believe).
Wasn't really recharge periods that was the issue...it was the sheer drain on the reactor itself that made it a, more or less, one-time-use weapon. (coupled with the amount of power its thrusters, double beam rifle and such used)

And technically, the term "mega particle cannon" and "mega particle gun" are interchangable as well, so the Gogg was really the first MS to have "mega particle cannons" for a weapon.

Though, the CLASS is obviously different since there are various moments of "battleship-class" beam cannons (as Char called the Gundam's beam rifle), mega particle cannons (like the Gabthley's feyadeen rifle was called a "battleship-class" mega particle gun because of its power), mega beam rifles and mega beam cannons.

And while it seems like it'd make sense to put a bunch of small beam weapons on ships like the Musai, it's not that simple considering the various factors involved in terms of power issues.
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Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:53 pm

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Wasn't really recharge periods that was the issue...it was the sheer drain on the reactor itself that made it a, more or less, one-time-use weapon. (coupled with the amount of power its thrusters, double beam rifle and such used)
Same difference, really, isn't it? You can charge something up slowly over a longer period of time with little power drain, or rapidly in a very short period of time with a huge power drain. Either way, the ZZ's forehead cannon was a bit too powerful for its own good, really.
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Post by RGM-79 GM » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:06 pm

Mwulf wrote:Right, but wouldn't it make more sense for warships--especially smaller ones like Musais--to have as many of the weakest beam weapons they can fit that are powerful enough to melt through EF ships at a great distance?
True but think about this. If you had ten people each firing one machine gun each firing them at full auto you would run out of ammo much faster than if you had one person firing one machine gun and they had the exact same amount of extra ammo laying around. That has nothing to do with beams though so I will make a beam example to. Lets say there was a ship or MS loaded down with weak beams and they fired them all at the same time then they would most likely use up too much power and shut down every other system and leave them open to attack. Same with if you have too many powerful ones but it would be easier to keep an eye on three large powerful ones instead of trying to keep an eye on 20 or so small weak ones. So if they put as many weaker beams on one ship or MS it would either overload the generator or they would have to shut down all their other systems to fire them. That and the ones on ships are better suited to anti-ship combat since they are wider than the beam from a normal beamrifle. A normal beamrifle will make a small hole in a large ship(they can hit vital areas though) while the beam from a ship's cannon would make a large hole and have a higher chance of destroying a ship.
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Post by Paul McCartney Jr » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:37 pm

Considering how maneuverable a suit is; a turret would have little chance to hit it therefore making it easier to just let your suits out to fight it. A beam salvo would be more effective on another ship

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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:47 pm

Not to mention conventional machine guns, as shown various times, are more than capable of shredding MS apart anyways so there's no reason to try to replace them with anything else. And they only get more effective as time goes up because of thinner armor and such.

The bigger mega particle cannons and/or missiles take care of other ships good enough.
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Post by Zeonic Glory » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:51 pm

The Protoype Gundam Mark II can use an experimental battleship class beam rifle. The unit has specs on MAHQ somewhere but I just can't seem to find it... Anyways, it has one powerful beam rifle...
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