MS better suited for space combat: GM or Rick Dom?

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mcred23
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Oh, it's bigger. The beam bazooka is usually shown being almost as long (if not longer) than the Rick Dom is tall, and it's clearly far larger than the normal Giant Bazooka.

It's rate of fire has never really been identified. We know it has to do some amount of charging between shots, so no matter what, it's rate fire will be slower than that of a normal bazooka. EiS had it take a few seconds between shots, but EiS is far from a good source for most things...

There is no need to guess on it being rare, as it had to be. They hardly showed up in combat and overall it isn't that much better than a normal Giant Bazooka. It's safe to assume these things were built in extremely limited numbers.
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I would guess that anything that carried heavy beam weaponry before beam rifle-equipped MS were mostly anti-ship units unless you get closer up where you can have an easier shot that's harder to dodge. At least, that's what it looks like anyways.
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Im going to judge this match using FvZ and GvZ phyiscs.

The Rick Dom can shoot his bazooka while moving, giving it a definite tactical advantage. The GM could have an advantage seeing as a beam saber is stronger than a heatstick. I read a Manga where some Zakus were going to sack a bigtray but they got called back so the Doms could do it. The Dom pilot was beating the GMs like government mules but the Lieutenient stood in front of a Bigtray cannon and acted to call the Dom out. When the Dom charged, he jumped and the cannon baked the Dom.

So they're not invincible to tactics, however, in my observation and opinion, the Dom is better.
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Paul McCartney Jr wrote:Im going to judge this match using FvZ and GvZ phyiscs.
Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad idea. Games tend to skew suit performance, and the "vs." games do this especially.
I read a Manga where some Zakus were going to sack a bigtray but they got called back so the Doms could do it. The Dom pilot was beating the GMs like government mules but the Lieutenient stood in front of a Bigtray cannon and acted to call the Dom out. When the Dom charged, he jumped and the cannon baked the Dom.

So they're not invincible to tactics, however, in my observation and opinion, the Dom is better.
Eh, you seem to be talking about the Dom here, but this thread is specifically about the Rick Dom, which is a slightly different mobile suit. Pretty much nobody will argue that the Dom outclasses the GM in ground combat in almost every situation, but that's irrelevant to this thread.
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Cardi Doorl wrote:Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad idea. Games tend to skew suit performance, and the "vs." games do this especially.
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. As much as I love FedvsZ DX, it focused more on game balancing rather than accurate depictions. Otherwise in the game, at the very least, a GM would cost as much as a Rick Dom.
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And even in the vs games the Rick Dom is one of the hardest space MS to use. Its bazooka almost can hit nothing
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flamingtroll wrote:And even in the vs games the Rick Dom is one of the hardest space MS to use. Its bazooka almost can hit nothing
No way. To hit someone with it just bring them just out of reach of your heatstick.
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flamingtroll wrote:And even in the vs games the Rick Dom is one of the hardest space MS to use. Its bazooka almost can hit nothing
That's odd, because along with the Rick Dias (bazooka) and Zaku II (missile pod) I found the Rick Dom/Dom to be one of the ~easiest~ grunt suits to master.

~___~

As for which suit is better.... I say forget all the data and crap and just look at the designs through a lens of logic. The GM only has a few thrusters, most of which are located on the backpack and feet. That means it can only thrust upward and forward, with limited lateral movement. The Rick Dom has thrusters in the same location, as well as under the skirt armor... and it has a lot more of them. It looks like it would be faster, and it certainly has a lot more armor... so I'm voting for the Rick Dom.
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Faster does not mean victory. The GM can out turn the Rick Dom, and that is a far more critical element in a dogfight than raw speed. Espically when you have to get as close as you do in the OYW battle field for your weapons to be effective.
My vote goes to the GM.
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I think the GM is better suited for space. The Rick Dom is too bulky, in my opinion, to make it a good space combatant.
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The Rick Dom is a decent space combat unit.... just not against other MS. Against lightly armed fighters or slow and bulky battleships, it would do very well, which is probably why Zeon adopted the Rick Dom in the first place. But against agile and powerful MS like the GM, it's badly outclassed.
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I always believed rick doms were better because they were fast with heavy armor and always used bazookas which can cause massive damage. but dont GMs have weaker armor and i still think doms outgun them in selection cause they can be equipped with a lot of different wepons for a lot of situation. Dont rick doms II have back gun racks?(but doms look like better land MS)The beam bazzoka looks big as hell and shoots slow as hell so what i remember from from ecounter in space.
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Random Zaku Pilot wrote:I always believed rick doms were better because they were fast with heavy armor and always used bazookas which can cause massive damage. but dont GMs have weaker armor and i still think doms outgun them in selection cause they can be equipped with a lot of different wepons for a lot of situation.
Well, we know for a fact that, dispite being faster and more heavily armored than a GM, they are the weaker MS.

As for the bazookas, that's not really an advantage. As it was already stated, their ammo is more limited than even a beam weapons and they can be avoided. On top of that, GM's carry shields, so they can take at least one hit from a Rick Dom's bazooka. GM's typically carried beam spray guns, and one or two hits from that are going to take a MS-09R down no matter what. Really, the two MS are just about equal in terms of the weapons they most often use.

As for many different weapons... not really. The Rick Dom is almost always issued the H&L-GB05R Giant Bazooka. Every now and then you'll find a 880mm Raketen bazooka or an MMP-80 90mm machine gun or a Pazerfaust, but none of those were as common as the standard 360mm Giant Bazooka. At the same time, the GM also has a number of other weapons, it's somewhat common 90mm bullpup and the far less common Hyper Bazooka.
Random Zaku Pilot wrote:Dont rick doms II have back gun racks?
I think they may have had those in the anime, although I'm not sure/can't remember at the moment...
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Many newer guns are simply not avaliable in MSG so it is obvious to see all GMs with BSG and Rickdoms with bazooka, but later anime, games, etc have them. At the present both the fed and Zeon's MSs can be equipped with loads of different handheld weapons, and their use seems to creep back into more recent OYW presentation too.

Still Rickdom's primary weapon should still be giant bazooka because of its role as attacker [especially ship sinker]. As I said earlier it should not be used to fight GMs [there are exceptions though eg. in Ecole de ciel a Rickdom pilot can go melee with heat sword very well], and if GMs get close Rickdoms should speed away [maybe swing the heat sword a bit to keep GMs at bay] and let Zakus or Gelgoogs or machinegun-equipped Rickdoms deal with GMs instead. At appropriate distance I doubt normal GM pilots would have easy time dodging bazooka rounds the same way as aces however.
Last edited by domtropen on Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mwulf wrote:
flamingtroll wrote:And even in the vs games the Rick Dom is one of the hardest space MS to use. Its bazooka almost can hit nothing
That's odd, because along with the Rick Dias (bazooka) and Zaku II (missile pod) I found the Rick Dom/Dom to be one of the ~easiest~ grunt suits to master.
.
Rick Dom and Dom in are completely different animals man. On the ground the Dom is quite good, but in space its not that great. Bazooka in general isnt great for space and most of the melee moves of Rickdom doesnt work that well in space, espeically when you are against non CPU players. And by space I mean those space levels that are in space, not Solomon or Gyrps kinda internal space.

Rick Dom is defintely worse than a normal GM in space.

Thats for me at least. The only things I found worse than Rick doms are Balls.
No way. To hit someone with it just bring them just out of reach of your heatstick.
So can a beam gun at that range. But a bazooka with have quite the trouble hitting far away targets that beam guns can often hit easily.
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True, and beam guns are more powerful (most of them) however, it takes considerably less time to reload the bazooka making it superior in long, drawn out fights.
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Paul McCartney Jr wrote:True, and beam guns are more powerful (most of them) however, it takes considerably less time to reload the bazooka making it superior in long, drawn out fights.
This depends on the bazooka in question. For we for a fact that the 880mm Raketen bazooka can easily be reloaded in combat and extra ammo can be carried. However, the same is not true of the Rick Dom's most commonly used weapon, the 360mm Giant Bazooka, which (AFAIK) cannot be reloaded in combat by the MS using the weapon (Or be done easily, as we never see a unit with this weapon attempt it).

So while some bazookas may be better due to being able to be reloaded, this doesn't apply to all of them.
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flamingtroll wrote:
Mwulf wrote:
flamingtroll wrote:And even in the vs games the Rick Dom is one of the hardest space MS to use. Its bazooka almost can hit nothing
That's odd, because along with the Rick Dias (bazooka) and Zaku II (missile pod) I found the Rick Dom/Dom to be one of the ~easiest~ grunt suits to master.
.
Rick Dom and Dom in are completely different animals man. On the ground the Dom is quite good, but in space its not that great. Bazooka in general isnt great for space and most of the melee moves of Rickdom doesnt work that well in space, espeically when you are against non CPU players. And by space I mean those space levels that are in space, not Solomon or Gyrps kinda internal space.

Rick Dom is defintely worse than a normal GM in space.

Thats for me at least. The only things I found worse than Rick doms are Balls.
Hm... I haven't really tried out the Rick Dom in space in GvZG, but in FvZ EVERYTHING handled like crap in space. In the low-grav areas it handled just as well... of course, the Rick Dias owns everything everyhere... it's a shame that design series never got any further; I almost like it as much as I like the Zaku designs.

In the novels, Tomino has the Rick Dom fighting on equal ground as the G3, so it's clearly superior to the GMs... in the anime it's up in the air, as whatever fits the story better will become reality. Personally, I think of the Dom as Zeon's ultimate land-combat MS that they were forced to refit for space combat because they were losing the war... of course, it WAS better than the old Zakus, and the old Zakus weren't much worse than the GMs (the lack of beam weaponry being their only real weakness) so it isn't a strecth to say Rick Doms were superior to GMs.

Of course, GM Snipers, Cannons, and Commanders were probably better... ATM, I can't think of a single EF grunt suit that could equal the Gelgoog-Jager.
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mcred23 wrote:
Paul McCartney Jr wrote:True, and beam guns are more powerful (most of them) however, it takes considerably less time to reload the bazooka making it superior in long, drawn out fights.
This depends on the bazooka in question. For we for a fact that the 880mm Raketen bazooka can easily be reloaded in combat and extra ammo can be carried. However, the same is not true of the Rick Dom's most commonly used weapon, the 360mm Giant Bazooka, which (AFAIK) cannot be reloaded in combat by the MS using the weapon (Or be done easily, as we never see a unit with this weapon attempt it).

So while some bazookas may be better due to being able to be reloaded, this doesn't apply to all of them.
Still it is quicker than waiting for a beam rifle to recharge
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Bazookas are better in ANY fight because the rounds explode. Sure, a beam is very fast and very powerful and very accurate... but because it's so small it's VERY hard to aim, and you have to score a direct hit for the shot to be worthwhile. A bazooka... so long as you're firing in the general vicinity of your target there's a good chance you'll hit.
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