Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

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WildeHopps_Shipper
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Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:01 am

You know how, compared to super robot anime -- where battles are primarily determined by the strength of the mecha alone -- with real robot anime, battles are instead determined by the pilots' skills and experience rather than just the mecha alone?

To me, this kind of logic would have mostly -- if not all the time -- applied to custom and prototype mecha, two of the most individualistic types of mecha imaginable. For mass-production mecha, those would have worked at their best when given to the right commanding officer, e.g. Lelouch vi Britannia, who sucks as a pilot compared to Suzaku Kururugi and Kallen Kouzuki, yet makes for a better CO.

So as the title said, why do people overlook the commanding officer as a major factor to real robot battles, and not just the pilots alone?

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Kuruni
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:14 am

Please give an example of someone who's truly overlooked.

I can think of some who's overshadowed by the team's ace, but can't think of one who's totally ignored.
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:46 am

Kuruni wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:14 am
Please give an example of someone who's truly overlooked.

I can think of some who's overshadowed by the team's ace, but can't think of one who's totally ignored.
Like Bright Noa from the Gundam series, or Holland from Eureka Seven. Or even Tessa from Full Metal Panic.

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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:05 pm

None of them are overlooked.

If you think the story focus more on the protagonist more than them, well, that's how it should be. We're watching story, not documentary.
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:14 pm

I'm thinking of every major mecha anime I've seen so far that featured ships in a substantial way...and I'm not seeing any evidence of the ship CO in the main cast being "overlooked" in terms of their contributions to combat relative to the pilots.
Are they less prominent than the main pilot character? Sometimes. That comes with the territory - mecha anime's about the mech more than it's about the ships after all.
Doesn't mean they're overlooked entirely
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:03 pm

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:01 am
So as the title said, why do people overlook the commanding officer as a major factor to real robot battles, and not just the pilots alone?
Can't honestly think of a series where they overlook the commanding officers in charge...


WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:46 am
Like Bright Noa from the Gundam series, or Holland from Eureka Seven. Or even Tessa from Full Metal Panic.
Bright Noa is definitely not overlooked... in fact, his unique approach to personnel management has become a popular meme. Holland doesn't really fit the profile you're trying to draw up because he's ALSO a pilot and spends more of his time flying than bossing people around (Talho might almost fit, but she's very heavily focused on partly because she's Miss Fanservice and partly because she actually takes charge a lot). Captain Testarossa from Full Metal Panic! is probably the closest of your examples to what you're talking about, since as captain of a submarine she's definitely out of focus most of the time. That said, she has a fair few moments where she's shown taking charge and wrecking the enemy's sh*t more comprehensively than Sousuke ever could both in the anime and the light novels and manga.
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by MythSearcher » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:29 pm

I guess if this is really a thing, most of the time it will be on enemy commanders.
Gundam usually don't overlook commanding officers, but have them villainous break down in order to have the protagonists win the war. Gihren was supposed to have an IQ of 240, yet his actions at the end of MSG make him look more like having an IQ of 40. (mostly attributed to his fear of losing, but still) Kycillia is a bit better, but wasn't really shown to have commanded much after taking over command, ironic. Char, who should be commanding instead of piloting, went into personal duel instead of doing his job right. And so quite a few of the main antagonist of the Gundam shows followed with people who should be commanding ditching their commanding work and piloting a mobile weapon into the field just to be squashed because they don't necessarily have the skills to be a good pilot. Actual capable Char clones aside, you'd really doubt if Iron Mask and Alejandro Corner even had a driving license. Iron Mask is at least an artificial Newtype, Corner?
If we look at Zeta and ZZ, Scirocco, who should be commanding all of the remaining Titans piloted The O and basically that is why they got wiped out by the colony laser. Haman, who really should be commanding Axis and Neo Zeon, dueled Judah.(Though she more or less has a death wish at the time and the main damage comes from the idiot traitor) Char in 0093 did basically the same thing when he is in command of the whole Neo Zeon instead of his old 0079 self where he is more or less just the commander of a fleet. Full Frontal, well, same story. In Wing, both Treize and Zechs piloted MSs while they really should be commanding. Treize at least had Lady Une doing his job for him, Zechs? Noin is also a pilot. Ribbons, well, he is not really doing much of a command to begin with, more like manipulated by Veda to be the big bad and became kinda stupid anyway.(Who in the right mind would think they had full control of Veda when it withheld the information of the GN drives that even people with a few level of access less can gather?)

Ginias Sahalin basically just sits there and he is not really the commander (commander of the development team at best) so I can cut him some slack.

The one doing the best commanding job is also the largest, most dominating and cannot be overlooked, the moon sized ELS.

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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Zeonista » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Well, as someone in Martian Successor Nadesico tells its titular cruiser's bubbly-fluffy captain to her face, in modern space warfare a captain isn't really needed anymore. The ships are heavily automated and the crew members know how to use their systems without a lot of direction. So the captain is pretty much a symbolic figure who keeps everybody's spirits up. A symbolic mascot doesn't need a mecha suit either, that is reserved for the Heroic Mecha Pilot.
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm

Zeonista wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:26 pm
Well, as someone in Martian Successor Nadesico tells its titular cruiser's bubbly-fluffy captain to her face, in modern space warfare a captain isn't really needed anymore. The ships are heavily automated and the crew members know how to use their systems without a lot of direction. So the captain is pretty much a symbolic figure who keeps everybody's spirits up. A symbolic mascot doesn't need a mecha suit either, that is reserved for the Heroic Mecha Pilot.
I don't think you understand the role of a real captain.
No matter how automated the ship is, you still need somebody to make the decision and take the responsibility, just like any other work forces require their own management.
The crew members that handle the actual operation to move the ship are the ones that can be removed with the introduction of automation, and the last thing you will have left is a ship with only one person onboard, the captain, which will now be more like the pilot of a mecha.
Saying the captain isn't needed is like saying you have a mecha with 5 operators but no one in the role of commanding, and everyone just blindly listen to what the computer tells them to do without the need of decision making, which is the opposite of vehicle development in history. (IRL you reduce the number of operators because the systems become more and more automated and you are only left with only a single person to control it or a main and a sub controller for vehicles that operate longer so one can rest)

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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Kuruni » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:49 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
I don't think you understand the role of a real captain.
Except what Zeonista said is come from context of Nadesico. It's what said in the show, his understanding is irrelevant. IIRC, pretty much the crews of Nadesico are there to "train" Omoikane. Of course, ultimately they have to keep crews on board to deal with something unexpected, but theorically Ruri alone can run Nadesico B/C by herself and it would still operate at full capacity.
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:44 am

Kuruni wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:49 am
Except what Zeonista said is come from context of Nadesico. It's what said in the show, his understanding is irrelevant. IIRC, pretty much the crews of Nadesico are there to "train" Omoikane. Of course, ultimately they have to keep crews on board to deal with something unexpected, but theorically Ruri alone can run Nadesico B/C by herself and it would still operate at full capacity.
I kinda assumed s/he is talking about more general terms and used Nadesico as an example.
Also, I haven't watched the anime but only read the manga, and in the manga, Yurika actually took control of the whole ship and "piloted" the whole thing via the wheel and panel on the ship bow "Outside" the ship, and even Ruri said she couldn't do anything.
Ruri became the temp. captain after Yurika got captured, so I figured even in Nadesico the captain is still pretty important as a decision maker.

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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:28 am

I don't read the manga, but heard that it's quite different from anime (certainly the wheel don't even exist in anime).
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Re: Why do people overlook the commanding officer?

Post by MS07B3_Pilot » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:02 pm

If you were to place this into real world combat units, most of the time the Commanding Officer is leading the unit from the battlefield not behind a desk (referring to O-6 Colonel/Captain; rarely do O-7 and up grace front line combat nowadays) so compared to Gundam most combat CO’s are Colonels and Captains and they are commanding smaller units and hence doing more grunt work than paper pushing.

Hope this clears things up a little

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