The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:26 pm

The background of the AMX-011S unit that appears actually might change our previous assumptions on the development of this particular model. But before addressing that issue I wanted to quickly point out a mechanical error in the series: the AMX-011S seems to have the stock S-type head, which ironically is the only one of the 3 AMX-011 heads without a mouth beam gun, a weapon which is supposedly used in the novel.

There's actually a very simple way to tell the heads apart, even from a distance, by checking the head antennas. Please see the following image:

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gu ... 1230041316

-The most common AMX-011 head has 3 antennas, one on the front and two at the sides on the rear, and is the one equipped with just a beam gun.
-The second most common head is the one usually seen on AMX-011S units, which has a two antennas, one on the front and one on the rear, and just head vulcans.
-Finally, there's the head with two rear antennas, which is equipped with both vulcans and a mouth beam gun. We could speculate that the bully forehead section of this head is the result of fitting both types of weapons in the same head. AFAIK, it has only been seen as an optional component in the manual image I linked above.

It's a bit disappointing such well thought differences weren't considered for the series.

With that out of the way, let's go back to the background of the red AMX-011S: according to the story it was a unit Haman had developed for Char, but which he never got to pilot. This could explain a few things of Mahysmre's unit, such as why it seems to have a psycommu system installed or why it's essentially considered an equivalent to Chara's AMX-015, which for a long time seemed the pinnacle of Neo Zeon's newtype MS (well, at least regular sized MS).

It's also important to mention the development timing of two distinct Zaku III types:

-The standard AMX-011 is supposed to have been developed and introduced at around the same time as the Dreissen, with both machines being said to have been based on OYW in order to speed up their development. As it has been pointed out, a couple can be seen in the distance during the Neo Zeon parade after the occupation of Dakar, much earlier than its proper introduction during the Dublin colony drop operation. We see a couple more units in the series: one appears patrolling Core 3 during Judau's attempt to kidnap Minerva and another one is seen outside the Sadalahn on the very last episode.

-The AMX-011S doesn't actually appear until the outbreak of the Zeon civil war. We know that Mashymre participated in the defensive battle of Axis that took place while Haman was on Earth, at which he piloted a MS-14J instead. IIRC, Chara also participated in the same battle, but she already had her Geymalk. During the battle of Axis, we see a couple of AMX-011S units among Glemy's forces, though it remains unclear if they are using the standard AMX-011 color scheme or the very similar Glemy rebels color scheme (I'm inclined to the former).

Personally I'm inclined to think that the AMX-011S is the particular model that is said to have lost against the AMX-014 Doven Wolf in the competition for becoming Neo Zeon's next mainstay MS, which makes more sense that assuming that the rival machine was the vanilla Zaku III which was deployed much earlier. As to why it lost, there could be several reasons, but for me a reason related to the skill level of the average Neo Zeon soldier would make most sense:

-The AMX-011S would be a high mobility unit that would require a very skilled pilot, maybe even a newtype/cyber newtype if we assume that the psycommu system could have become a staple of such configuration.

-The Doven Wolf was designed to rely on its many different weapons for ranged attacks and assist the pilot in performing all range attacks. It also fulfilled the heavy firepower criteria of 4th gen MS like the ZZ Gundam.

Despite the likely higher cost, the Doven Wolf likely fulfilled the needs of Haman's Neo Zeon better (and ultimately it seems that they had plenty of resources to spare anyway).

Finally, that leaves the question of whether Mashymre received the AMX-011S for a sentimental reason: perhaps Haman was looking in him for a replacement for Char, or Mashymre wanted to use the same machine as the one Haman intended for the man she loved.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by amagee2100 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:34 am

On the official Youtube release, at 2:26 on the video, you see what seems to be a reflection of a purple Jegan holding some manner of weird beam weapon that I'm totally unfamiliar with. Anyone have any clue as to what that thing is holding?

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by E08 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:34 am

I think that is the shot lancer-shaped weapon mentioned in the suit's profile on the official novel website.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:39 am

The more I look at the RX-160G, the more I'm inclined to think it is a sort of middle step between the original RX-160 and the RX-160S: it has the feet and hands of the original, but it adds the rear leg thrusters of the custom model. The added propellant tank + thrusters on the back of the Isolde are a smaller version than the custom's.

I'm inclined to think that basically someone going Jerid's old Byarlant and only managed to secure a few of the new components for trying to upgrade it into the improved RX-160S.

As for the Gundam face I assume is more of an aesthetic change rather than a proper upgrade. Incidentally it makes more confusing figuring out if the unit dated back from the Gryps War or if it's a more recent model.

Going back to Axis, the fact that there seems to be many MS left in the abandoned fortress, even after the EF looted the place, makes me think that Axis/Haman's Neo Zeon did have a serious soldier deficit, not only quality-wise, but also in regards to availability.

I've mentioned how the AMX-014 Doven Wolf is rather impressive not just because of its combat capabilities, but rather because of its likely high cost despite being a mass produced MS, between its high output generator, multiple weapons and even a mass produced quasi psycommu system.

Similarly, machines like the Qubeley are mass produced and other high spec newtype use units such as the Geymalk and Quin Mantha are oddly labeled as mass production according to the Mahq profiles.

There's also the fact even after the EF/AEUG take a step back on the use of Gundarium Gamma with the Nemo and GM III, Haman's Neo Zeon keeps rolling out new mass production models all using the newer alloy.

In short, there's strong evidence that Axis/1st Neo Zeon was lacking not only talented soldiers, but soldiers overall, to the point that there production capabilities seemed to exceed the availability of pilots for using them. This would to push the production of high spec/high cost units in an attempt to overcome the lack of numbers and talented pilots with better (& more expensive) technology and more heavily armed units.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:09 pm

I'm actually curious as to how Haman could afford all these expensive state of the art suits during the 1st Neo Zeon war... during Zeta it seemed that Axis Zeon had limited sources and given how long it takes for MS development, she would've had the resources for those quite a while before the 1st Neo Zeon War... Altough Axis did have a lot of minerals, would that be enough to make all those powerful MS and even have the production lines for them?

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:51 am

Supposedly, Haman was intentionally keeping back most of Axis forces for the upcoming battle from whoever emerged victorious at the end of the Gryps war between the AEUG sand the Titans.

When Axis is on collision course with the Gate Of Zedan, the AEUG is surprised to see many lights (ships) leaving Axis, indicating that even after their alliance with Haman, the AEUG remained unaware of the size of the Axis fleet.

Now, regarding MS development, it seems that many MS were being developed as Axis head toward the Earth Sphere, at which point many were already at the prototype stage and were given to Haman's "ambassadors" to the colonies, such as Mashymre, Chara or Rakan.

The Zaku III and Dreissen are supposedly based on OYW units in order to speed up their development. Order-wise, the Gaza E is already being deployed during the Gryps Conflict. It's model number suggests that it was developed before the Gaza D and indeed, while the Endra gets several one of a kind prototypes, it receives 4 Gaza D, indicating that unlike the other new machines, the Gaza D was already past the prototype stage and beginning the mass production stage.

As for Axis resources, perhaps upon the end of the OYW, the Zeon remnants that fled to Axis took resources which M'Quve sent from Odessa. Let's not forget the infamous quote of M'Quve in which he claimed that Zeon managed to ship enough resources to fight for another 10 years.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:53 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:51 am
As for Axis resources, perhaps upon the end of the OYW, the Zeon remnants that fled to Axis took resources which M'Quve sent from Odessa. Let's not forget the infamous quote of M'Quve in which he claimed that Zeon managed to ship enough resources to fight for another 10 years.
I have point this out, though: M'Quve's hauls did almost certainly went to Kycilia Zabi, and Maharaja Karn was not considered a part of her circle. If anything, he was on the neutral side, with close connection to Dozle. And, Kycilia planned to return to Side 3 when she abaddoned A Baou Qu, not Axis.

So even if the Zeon remnants carried the resources to Axis, I doubt they were neither capable nor trustful enough of the Karns to carry all of M'Quve's hauls there.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Kuruni » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:51 am

Except that the one group we known to actually be there and collect stuff from Odessa is Jotunheim, a neutral group.

Plus, we're talking about resource here. Pick your poison, eitehr Axis already has too much of resource so they don't mind turn them down, or their resource is limited and they would need more. Also reminder, technically Char was in Kycilia faction and nobody known he assasinate her. Guess where he end up after OYW?
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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by E08 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:01 am

amagee2100 wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:34 am
On the official Youtube release, at 2:26 on the video, you see what seems to be a reflection of a purple Jegan holding some manner of weird beam weapon that I'm totally unfamiliar with. Anyone have any clue as to what that thing is holding?
According to this page from the Premium Bandai website, the beam weapon is a beam rifle which consisted of a submachine gun, and a beam lance that can be detached or fired at enemy. Also a better look at the new sensor on the head.

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Wingnut » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:10 pm

http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=5116

New info on the mobile armors we see in the latest episode. A mini-fridge, and another zany zeonic mobile armor.
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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:08 pm

E08 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:01 am
amagee2100 wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:34 am
On the official Youtube release, at 2:26 on the video, you see what seems to be a reflection of a purple Jegan holding some manner of weird beam weapon that I'm totally unfamiliar with. Anyone have any clue as to what that thing is holding?
According to this page from the Premium Bandai website, the beam weapon is a beam rifle which consisted of a submachine gun, and a beam lance that can be detached or fired at enemy. Also a better look at the new sensor on the head.
Wow, that thing is awesome. It looks like a Shot Lancer and the X3's Muramasa Blaster had a baby.
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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Arsarcana » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:16 pm

Or given the timeline, it's the daddy and the Shot Lancer and Muramasa Blaster are its child and grandchild. xD

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Re: The Official Gundam Twilight AXIS Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Gundam0089 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:59 am

So were all the red lights coming from two pods deployed by the Kurwenal supposed to be lasers, not particle beams?

Arlette seemed to be completely shocked by them.

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