Question about NTD system

[iamthebest22]

Hi guys xD I got another question that i"m using for my next model kit build. So as most of us are aware, the NTD system enables the Unicorn to turn the enemies funnels (or in games, any remote weapon) against them. My question is, does the suit that NTD is installed on needs a full body psychoframe like the Unicorn (where it pretty much has psychoframe throughout the whole body) or would it says be able to do the same on say just the Nu Gundam, or heck even just the Sinanju. In short, the question is is just a psychoframe cockpit enough (like the Nu gundam), or maybe like just half the body of Unicorn, or must have a full blown body psychoframe, AND if I want the suit to just have NTD just to counter another NTD unit to prevent it from hijacking the remote weapons, is it the same thing. Thank you very much!

[Dark Duel]

I would be inclined to say that a full-body psycoframe would be required for the NT-D System to function as efficiently as it did in UC, simply because only the RX-0s had the system equipped. It MIGHT work with a cockpit psycoframe like on Nu/Sazabi/Sinanju, but odds are it would be, IMO, substantially weaker.
If I may use a computer processor as a parallel(and I know the analogy sucks, it's the best I can come up with offhand), a computer with a dual-core processor(regular psycoframe) might be able to run a particular program, but a quad-core processor(full-psycoframe) will do it much more efficiently.


As for whether it's possible to use the NT-D to counter another NT-D, no idea. Theoretically, I guess you could justify it because anytime Newtype shenanigans get involved, logic goes out the window(the biosensor from Z/ZZ being IMO the worst offender of all in that regard, though the NT-D hijinks in OVA 7 aren't far behind)

[Gelgoog Jager]

I'm certain that the original Puru was able to hijack the reflector bits of the Psycho Gundam Mk II. She did so while piloting her damaged Qubeley Mk II, so it would seem that not even a Psycho Frame is necessary.

[iamthebest22]

Hmmm yeah that's what I have a question on, it seems to be less dependent on psycho frame, (the Qubeley MK II had a Bio-sensor though IIRC) and more on how much newtype power the person has (like when Banagher exploded the psycho jammers). However and please let me know if this is the right guess, if you don't have newtype powers, full blown psychoframe is needed for NTD to counter another NTD? (and one probably won't survive anyways) but if you do, even just a bio-sensor is enough?

[Dark Duel]

The psycoframe is a development of psycommu technology, which we know can be used only Newtype pilots - hence the creating of the quasi-psycommu system used in, for example, the Gundam MkV. So an Oldtype would not be able to use a psycoframe at all.
The only pilots to've used a biosensor AFAIK are both Newtypes as well, so I would be inclined to think that would also require a Newtype pilot.
I believe the NT-D is also a further refinement of psycoframe technology, so an Oldtype pilot would not be able, from my understanding, to use any of these devices - only a Newtype or Cyber-Newtype would.

If you're planning to have this be an Oldtype-use unit, some kind of "pseudo-NTD" technology along the lines of the aforementioned quasi-psycommu would be required.

[iamthebest22]

Oh I was planning it to be used either a cyber-newtype or true newtype, so maybe one with strong newtype powers so the unit wouldn't need a full body psychoframe? Like bio-Sensor?

EDIT: Just realized there is a psycho neutralizer, which isn't stable, but maybe I could say it uses some psychoframe on the backpack of the suit (instead full body) and combine that with that to a refined psychoframe neutralizer, that might work?

[Gelgoog Jager]

Hmmm yeah that's what I have a question on, it seems to be less dependent on psycho frame, (the Qubeley MK II had a Bio-sensor though IIRC) and more on how much newtype power the person has (like when Banagher exploded the psycho jammers). However and please let me know if this is the right guess, if you don't have newtype powers, full blown psychoframe is needed for NTD to counter another NTD? (and one probably won't survive anyways) but if you do, even just a bio-sensor is enough?

The Qubeley Mk II and pretty much any Axis/First Neo Zeon MS for newtypes uses the plain old Psycommu System dating back from the OYW, just smaller in size.

The biosensor is used by some AEUG MS, such as the Zeta and ZZ Gundams, and it is said that the system used by The O is similar.

As for the pilot, I've heard that even the original Puru is supposed to be a cyber-newtype. According to the gundam wikia, some of the backstory from the MSV-R manga points that during the OYW at least two cyber-newtypes (or at least prototype cyber-newtypes) were part of the Chimera Corps: Uma Lightning and Ingrid 0.

Anyway, what is important is that by the time the First Neo Zeon War is about to end, the procedure to produce cyber-newtypes tend to lead to noticeable personality disorders. In that regard, the most successful subjects could be considered the mass produced Puru clones, like Puru Twelve (Marida Cruz), which were programmed to be fully obedient with their "master" and in turn had a cold machine-like personality.

By the 2nd Neo Zeon War the procedure seems to have been further perfected, most likely by Nanai Miguel, producing more stable subjects such as Gyunei Guss and later Full Frontal.

As for the specific case of the NT-D working with non-newtypes: it's hard to say. I'm inclined to think that is based on the EXAM and HADES systems, which essentially gave newtype-like capabilities to normal pilots. Gundam Side Stories at least places the usage of the HADES system as late as U.C. 0091 in the form of the AMX-018[HADES] Todesritter.

Ultimately we are not even certain who would have piloted the RX-0 had the Sleeves obtained the MS without the interruption of the EF forces. The pressence of Marida does leave the lingering doubt of whether she might have been specifically tasked for that mission so she could become the pilot of the Unicorn. On the other hand, I'm not certain that Cardeas Vist was aware that Banagher had newtype capabilities when he handed him the Unicorn.

All that being said, if the pilot were to be an old type, the suggestion would be using a quasi-psycommu system as Dark Duel suggested, which Angelo demonstrated can be used to great effect as in the case of the Rozen Zulu which also happen to have a psycho frame despite having a non-newtype pilot. More importantly, it comes equipped with a Psycho Jammer, which normally is capable of shutting down newtype-related systems (unless the plot requires it to no longer do so -_-).

Alternatives could be the RE-USE system from Gudnam Thunderbolt, which literally plugs the pilot into the machine, providing direct control over the MS, even allowing the pilot to freely control all limbs, verniers/thrusters and even sub-arms at will. EXAM and HADES systems are also options.

If the pilot is a newtype or cyber newtype, pretty much any newtype related technology is available for use.

[E08]

Actually, it is possible for an Oldtype to activate the NT-D, but it requires the use of the Armed Armor XC. I think this is noted in the Armed Armor XC text in the Banshee PG Manual. Perhaps, someone with a better understanding of Japanese can confirm this?

[Dark Duel]

Perhaps. I would respectfully point out that The Armed Armor XC is something that was created for the OVA though, and that the fact that Riddhe was perfectly capable of piloting the Banshee and activating its NT-D without that equipment in the novels does imply, at least IMO, that he has at least some Newtype ability.

[iamthebest22]

Wow that's alot of info, thanks again guys/girls. Well the main reason I want something of the psychoframe or quasi-psycommu is just to counter NTD's ability to hijack remote weapons, so that my units remote weapon wouldn't be hijacked. The problem with psyco jammer is that the unit then requires the jammers from Rozen Zulu, which I don't want to put in unless really necessary (more work for me on making my model kit). OH maybe it's possible (since my unit will have remote weapons) to have my unit's remote weapon all have a built in function that while they can't act as jammers, it at least ensures they won't be affected by the NTD or similar systems (so basically a psycho neutralizer again).
So maybe quasi-psycommu + some psycoframe on cockpit (and maybe a few on the backpack of my unit, have to do some carving ) + psycframe neutralizer?

[Dark Duel]

Wouldn't necessarily need the Zulu's specifically, as long as you have other parts you can use that would fulfill the same purpose. As for the rest - quasi-psycommu/psycoframe, psyco-neutralizer - you can probably technobabble that as systems integrated into the frame itself, in which case no additional external modification would even be necessary.

[E08]

Perhaps. I would respectfully point out that The Armed Armor XC is something that was created for the OVA though, and that the fact that Riddhe was perfectly capable of piloting the Banshee and activating its NT-D without that equipment in the novels does imply, at least IMO, that he has at least some Newtype ability.

This has nothing to do if Riddhe is a Newtype or not. I was just pointing out that there is a source material that indicates an old type can activate NT-D with the right equipment.

[iamthebest22]

Okay thanks guys/girls for the advice. I know that my base model for my kit is the Kshatriya for sure, and that has a psycoframe cockpit already, so I guess I will just say the system has been updated to include a quasi-psycommu also, but modified to be a psycoframe neutralizer, and that all the remote weapons on it has a "chip" like the rose shaped bits on the Zulu, but instead of acting as a jammer, it just prevents the remote weapons, working in tandem with the system, from being hijacked or disabled via the NTD or similar systems, also as a pre-caution, it will have some (like half body) psycoframe (which I will mod myself) on the backpack that is from another kit to increase the power of the system. Is that a good idea?

[Dark Duel]

Sounds like a plan. Look forward to seeing the finished product.

[iamthebest22]

Thanks! Might take awhile though, because I'm super busy with practicum, but will definitely show it off when I finish it!

[Gelgoog Jager]

Regarding the psycoframe itself, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but before the introduction of the RX-0 units, I think it was only used on the cockpits of the MS (namely the round section that doubles as a escape pod), not the actual body or backpack for the matter. In other words, I think putting psycoframe on the back pack doesn't make much sense for any machine that isn't an RX-0 unit.

The quasi-psycommu system doesn't prevent remote weapons from being hijacked: the Rozen Zulu was defeated when Banagher hijacked its wired remote arm, crashing it against its torso. The Psycho Gundam Mk II's reflector bits, which are also wired remote weapons, were also hijacked by Puru to be sued against the MRX-010 itself.

On the other hand, IIRC in the novels the Braw Bro remote weapons were supposedly more useful than the Elmeth bits since they were connected directly to the pilot, preventing a newtype enemy from sensing the turrets themselves, being only able to detect the the MA itself. IIRC, the wires of its remote weapons also prevented them to go out of control, unlike the Elmeth's bits. By the way, the Braw Bro also came with the option to allow it remote weapons to be individually controlled by old types, in which case an individual gunner would control one turret, for a total of 1 pilot and 4 gunners.

If you asked me, a machine equipped with the psycommu system operating wired remote weapons is probably the one that stands the best chance to prevent its weapons to be hijacked. The alternative is a machine with the quasi-psycommu system, BUT no psycoframe that could resonate with the one of the unit with the NTD.

One last thing, the AMX-002 Neue Ziel used a half control system which used computer guidance to assist the pilot in order to perform all range attacks with its wired claw arms. Said system is essentially the predecessor of the quasi-psycommu system.

[E08]

The Psycho Gundam Mk II's reflector bits, which are also wired remote weapons, were also hijacked by Puru to be sued against the MRX-010 itself.

The reflector bits are wireless…Did you mistake their antennae for wires? Or did you confuse them with the Psycho Gundam Mk II's detachable forearms, which are wired and controlled by the psycommu system.

[Gelgoog Jager]

The Psycho Gundam Mk II's reflector bits, which are also wired remote weapons, were also hijacked by Puru to be sued against the MRX-010 itself.

The reflector bits are wireless…Did you mistake their antennae for wires? Or did you confuse them with the Psycho Gundam Mk II's detachable forearms, which are wired and controlled by the psycommu system.

My bad, I must have been thinking on the similarly shaped AMX-018 Todesritter tri-blade incoms. You are right on the reflector bits being wireless. In such case, perhaps we do could assume that wireless remote weapons are the ones most susceptible to hijacking? At least I imagine it would be possible for a wired remote weapon to have a system that blocks external psyco waves not fed directly to it with the cable. But again, if the main body is using a psycoframe, I could imagine it being vulnerable to the NT-D system.

[Dark Duel]

Correct. However, something like incoms, which rely entirely on wire-transmitted signals, would be, I would imagine, substantially more difficult to hijack externally.

It's like intercepting the signal from wireless communications, such as radio, versus something like a landline phone. In the latter case, you'd have to physically tap the line itself - the wire.
So it would likely be very easy for a wired remote weapon to be hardened against hijacking remotely by something like the NT-D.
However, because the weapon is 100% dependent on that wire to function, it's even easier to disrupt it: All you have to do is cut that wire and the weapon is essentially rendered useless.

IF the main body uses a psycoframe, then you might be able to use the NT-D to "hack" the machine itself and render it immobile or unable to function. I don't know if the Unicorn ever did anything like that to a MOBILE SUIT, but it's simply a different application of the system that allows it to hack the funnels and seize control of them.

At the same time though, I would imagine that a sufficiently powerful Newtype in a psycoframe-equipped mobile suit might be able to override the NT-D's external influence and regain control of his own machine, so you'd better pray your NT powers are stronger than your enemy's.

[iamthebest22]

Well my unit was going to have a pretty strong NT power person (a good guy). I'm still working out the kinks, but the universe is what i"m still debating on, which is either build fighters universe (which then gets into plavsky particles , in which I would say the character has strong "NT" powers like Aila did and uses a helmet to like she did to help control and since the character is a good character >.> has strong will.) OR

(Like in the gundam EXA series, the character can travel between each gundam world, and he is mostly good person, but sometimes will do whatever necessary, as long as it doesn't cross the line too much. He builds this unit out of all the strongest with their abilities and stuff, and has strong "NT" powers. Gonna stop here or else it's gonna get long, which it is already).

but anyways, that's why I also implemented a psycho neutralizer function from the Zeta gundam in Gundam Evolve (the red one). So that even if the enemy has super strong NT, it wouldn't disable the unit for long. So I guess maybe remove the psychoframe I plan to put on the backpack and just stay with psychoframe cockpit?