Should The Gouf Still Be Classified As A Melee Type MS?

[Gelgoog Jager]

Using Gundam Build Fighters and related series is a tricky matter. IIRC we are told that people are surprised the Hi Nu Gundam can use six funnels instead of just two, since the model kit was designed in such way. I believe the reference of. The Gouf could have a similar approach, in which the hand is a solid piece (although manipulators overall would be a complicated issue to explain when most mode kits Ina Heston seem to be HGUC).

I do will mentioned that I like the idea of the YMS-15 being able to use a Gelgoog beam rifle, but I would like some confirmation in an actual UC in-universe source.

As for the Gouf Ignited (this is the one you meant, right?), I can think of a MS in a similar situation: the AMX-009 Dreissen.

The Dreissen's fixed weapons are its tri-blades and 3-barreled beam guns. Furthermore, in ZZ it's most common weapons are the melee heat lancer & heat tomahawk, emphasizing its melee/short range capabilities. Yet, even in ZZ we see some Dreissens equipped with beam rifles borrowed from Bawoos, in UC we see them using the Sinanju's bazooka and in AOZ they are depicted with beam bazookas.

[Xenosynth]

Sorry, not to nitpick, but to be fair, that was in Gunpla Builders where they mentioned the Nu Gundam thing. GBF seems to operate on different principles than GPB did.

I still think I like how the Master Grade has it set up, where the barrel is segmented and could move enough to theoretically hold a weapon I would imagine, especially something like the Giant Baz.

[Zeonista]

Gelgoog Jaeger: I made the GBF reference because the show was rather savvy about what the original MS could/could not do when doing the custom jobs for the characters. the Dreissen is another good example of a MS that gained new capability from adding a more long-ranged weapon.

The GOUF Ignited was never equipped with a rifle or bazooka. Apparently ZMF was alright with the Draupnir arm cannons as the primary ranged weapon.

Xenosynth: Thanks for showing us the MG option. That would permit a bazooka or rifle to be used with problems, yeah. Like I said, earlier, I didn't remember it from the original anime at all, but retcons being what they are....

[Gelgoog Jager]

It seems that the MG kit of the Perfect Zeong also supports the idea that barrel fingers are supposed to be flexible, since they can be used to hold a large physical (heat?) sword that comes with the kit. As for the Gouf, the original MG included a spare flexed hand for holding the blade, so I think that counts as an example indicating that the fingers do are meant to be flexible, even if at the time that model kit required to swap parts to represent that.

I think that if the situation called for it, the Gouf Ignited should be capable of operating handheld weapons. For example, if it had to fight underwater it would probably borrow a Ginn's bazooka just like Lunamaria and Rey did when they had to use their Zakus to fight underwater.

Still, as far as its intended role is involved, I agree that the Gouf Ignited is primarily meant to be a melee/close range type MS, essentially taking the role of the rarely seen Slash Zaku Phantom/Warrior, while being supported with other Zaku units equipped with Blaze and Gunner Wizards for providing middle and long range support respectively. Perhaps the Slash Wizard was not optimal for close range combat, perhaps the added weight slowed down the unit making it less effective for melee combat, which led to the need of designing the Gouf Ignited for replacing it on that role.

[Dark Duel]

The other thing about the GOUF Ignited is that it is capable of unassisted atmospheric flight, which the ZAKU is not; thus, on Earth it fills a role that the ZAKU is far less effective in.

[E08]

No doubt that the GOUF Ignited has better close combat capabilities than the Slash ZAKU Phantom/Warrior, but that isn't really the reason for its deployment or was it developed as a replacement for the latter.

The archived version of the Gundam Official's profile of the suit (accessible here: http://web.archive.org/web/201011240753 ... _gouf.html) points out two reasons for its deployment: ZAKU's production line reaching its max capacity and what Dark Duel mentioned. The Seed Destiny MS encyclopaedia adds a third: ZAFT's need of more MS.

As for its development history, the GO's profile has the gist of it. The Seed Destiny MS encyclopaedia noted that it was passed over due to its close combat configuration and cost related issues. The encyclopaedia also pointed out the GOUF Ignited's high potential lead to it being developed for use by special warfare forces despite the loss to ZAKU series. A small number of prototype machines were then produced and put into combat before the escalation of the war caused ZAFT to put the machine into mass production.

Based on all these information, my point of view is that the GOUF Ignited was put into production by ZAFT simply because they need a better performance MS and they need it fast. The fact that GOUF Ignited has superior close combat capabilities than the Slash ZAKU Phantom/Warrior seems to be merely a coincidence.

[AmuroNT1]

I just remembered that in the Gundam Senjou no Kizuna videogames MS are classified in 5 classes:

-Melee type
-Short Range Type
-Middle Range Type
-Long Range Type
-Sniper Type

More or less what I intend to point out is that while the MS-07B would fit the classification of melee type MS, units like the MS-07B3 can fit in some other roles depending on their load out:

If you want to be more precise, the five groupings in Senjou no Kizuna are:
-Melee Type
-Close Combat Type
-Shooting/Gunner Type
-Support Type (which is where the Snipers are)
-Long-Range Bombardment Type

And even then, both the original Gouf and the B-3 are classified as Melee; come to that, so is the Gouf R35 from Build Fighters, added as part of a special collaboration. The only Gouf currently in the game that's not Melee is the H-8 Flight Type, and that's still considered a Close Combat machine.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Actually, originally there was no support classification and instead there was a sniper classification. You can observe this on the roster of the PSP version of the game which wasn't updated:

http://www.b.bngi-channel.jp/psp/kizuna/

On the other hand, while I agree with classifications themsleves, how each MS has been actually classified in the games is debatable, specially considering that overtime MS have been reclassified for balance purposes and as new units increase the size of the roster:

http://gundam-kizuna.jp/detail/msstage/ms/index.php

Here are some of the MS whose classification has changed overtime between the current arcade release and PSP release which retains the original classifications:

MS-14A
Arcade: Gunner Type
PSP: Close Range Type

MS-06S
Arcade: Melee Type
PSP: Close Range Type

MSM-07
Arcade: Close Range Type
PSP: Gunner Type

MS-09K-2
Arcade: Support Type
PSP: Gunner Type

MS-14C
Arcade: Support Type
PSP: Gunner Type

MS-06K
Arcade: Long Range Type
PSP: Gunner Type

MS-14G
Arcade: Gunner Type
PSP: Support Type

RGM-79D
Arcade: Close Range Type
PSP: Melee Type

FA-78-2
Arcade: Support Type
PSP: Close Range Type
RX-78-2
Arcade: Melee Type
PSP: Close Range Type

RX-78-3
Arcade: Gunner Type
PSP: Close Range Type

RAG-79
Arcade: Close Range Type
PSP: Gunner Type

FA-78-1
Arcade: Support Type
PSP: Gunner Type

RX-77-2
Arcade: Support Type
PSP: Gunner Type

I'm sure that if you take a look around the roster you'll find certain units that you will think fit much better in a different classification, but gameplay balance requires them to have the one they currently have. Despite this, it does allow us to have a good idea of how MS can be classified outside the game, specially without the need to keep a balance between different factions or even among the units of a same faction.

[AmuroNT1]

Well, the game's core systems have gone through some major revisions over time; as you may notice, the old system (represented in the PSP version - which is now six years old!) was Melee/Close/Mid/Long/Sniper; in the current arcade version, it's Melee/Close/Gunner/Support/Long, with the Support tier being a merger of snipers and heavy gunners like the Guncannon and Heavy Gundam. This mainly serves to even out the ranks a bit, since obviously the Sniper group was the most sparsely populated.

...Of course, for reasons like this, I dunno if we can really use a video game to make meaningful technical analyses of Gundam, since often concessions have to be made in the name of entertaining gameplay.

EDIT: For the really curious, here's the full current listing for the game...

Spoiler

Federation
Melee: GM [G], Ball K, GM (Commander Unit), GM Light Armor, Guncannon Heavy, GM Striker, GM Striker (Nemesis), Pixy, Marine Gundam, Ez8, Striker Custom, GM Raid, BD2, Prototype Gundam, Alex, Gundam
Close: GM Trainer, GM, Zaku F2 (EFF), GM (White Dingo), GM Command Light Armor, Aqua GM, GM Cold Districts, GM Command, Gundam G05, Armored GM, GM Guard Custom, Gundam [G], GM Kai, BD1, Powered GM, Hi-Boost GM, GM Custom, GM Custom (Silver Haze Kai), GP01, GP01 Fb
Gunner: Desert GM, GM Cannon (Air Assault), Gundam [G] (GM Head), GM Sniper II (White Dingo), Mudrock, BD3, GM Cannon II, GM Kai (Shadows), G-3 Gundam, GP03 Stamen
Support: Guncannon, GM Sniper Custom, GM Sniper II, Heavy Gundam, Full Armor Gundam, GM Sniper II (Shadows), GP02 (MLRS)
Long: Ball, GM Sniper, Mass Production Guntank, GM Cannon, GM Cannon (White Dingo), Assault Guntank, Guntank, Mass Production Guncannon, Full Armor Gundam Type B

Zeon
Melee: Zaku I, Gouf, Gogg, Zogok, Gasshia, Agg, Acguy, Zaku II S, HiMo Zaku (Tri-Stars), Z'Gok-E, Dom Tropen, Rick Dom II, Gouf Custom, Kampfer, Efreet Kai, Efreet Nacht, HiMo Gelgoog (GK), BD2 (Nimbus), HiMo Zaku (Ridden), Gyan, Char's Gelgoog
Close: Zaku Trainer, Oggo, Dra-C, Zaku II, Zaku Desert, Zaku F2, Z'Gok, Zudah, Zaku II Cold Districts, HiMo Zaku (R-1A), Zaku Kai, Dom Tropen (Sand Brown), Hygogg, Efreet, Char's Z'Gok, Gouf Flight, Gelgoog Marine, Act Zaku, Dom Barrage, HiMo Gelgoog, Gerbera Tetra
Gunner: Garma's Zaku Fs, Zaku I S, Juagg, Dom/Rick Dom, Ground Gelgoog, Gelgoog, HiMo Zaku (R-3S), Gelgoog Marine (Cima)
Support: Dom Cannon Twin Guns, Zaku I Sniper, Zock, Gelgoog Cannon, Gelgoog Jager, Gelgoog Jager (Matsunata), GP02A (Beam Bazooka)
Long: Zaku I Late Model, Zaku Cannon, Zaku Tank, Gigan, Hildolfr, Zaku Tank Green Macaque, Zudah (Anti-Ship Rifle), Gelgoog Cannon (JN), Xamel

Collaboration
Melee: Gouf R35, Build Burning, Zaku Amazing, Gundam Duranta, RG Astray Red Frame, GP01J, Perfect Gundam
Close: Beargguy III, Gundam (Gunpla 35SP Weapons), Gundam (Tem OD's Weapons), Amazing Red Warrior
Gunner: Build Strike, Kampfer Amazing, GM Sniper K9
Long: Powered GM Cardigan