Oddities of evolution of the KnightMare Frame

[Arsarcana]

Тhe only thing I'm unclear if the design of European and Chinese mecha so effective, as is commonly believed, why she had not received further development, replaced by anthropomorphic?

Have you seen the Panzer Wespe?

I don't deny the existence "Estrella," but it raises many questions which are not clarified.

Sorry, English doesn't appear to be your first language but that wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm trying to point out that you seem to want answers to every possible question, instead of accepting that maybe we don't need to know every last detail about how the Estrelle came to exist (quite possibly the exact same way the Burai did) and they simply didn't think it was important enough to tell us in detail.

How to say - the number of "Gareth" in the last series too is very large, apparently the price difference is not too significant

We don't see as many Gareths as we do Vincent Wards and the two are designed for different purposes anyways.

Do not argue, but then what's the point of developing all these "advanced" weapons, if you cannot run them even in small scale production?

Because some of the prototype technology might turn out to be unsuited to mass production (Blaze Luminous for example) and others might (MVS, the Float System). You have to test it first before you'll know anything.

The armament of the "Ward" is simply not consistent with the existing protection systems and the attacking potential perceived opponents

Your argument about existing protective systems would only mean anything if you could point to any mass-production designs incorporating ultratech defensive technologies but you can't. At best you have limited production units that carry them but for the most part they're found on one-off designs meant for ace pilots. Perhaps it's time for you to accept that as cool as they are, Blaze Luminous shields just aren't economical for mass-produced units. As for attacking opponents, again the Vincent Ward does just fine with what it has and can carry optional hand weapons if it absolutely needs bigger guns.

Just imagine what a modern f-22 armed rockets at the Vietnam war, under the pretext that "they fly and explode, even go somewhere, so why develop a new one?"

Assuming I'm reading you correctly, you are once again literally making our argument for us. Your hypothetical F-22 will outfly everything by a ridiculous margin, see everything from much farther away and have a much harder time being seen thanks to its passive stealth. That would give it an insurmountable advantage even if you could only equip it with the same weapons as Vietnam-era aircraft. Now why is it hard for you to understand that the same thing can be true of the Vincent Ward?

[-Mit-]

Have you seen the Panzer Wespe?

Have you seen the "Alexander"? (Seriously, the only structural differences have a "Wespe" is the number of "gun barrels"...)

I'm trying to point out that you seem to want answers to every possible question, instead of accepting that maybe we don't need to know every last detail about how the Estrelle came to exist (quite possibly the exact same way the Burai did) and they simply didn't think it was important enough to tell us in detail.

Perhaps you're right, though from this "author's vision" is sad...At least he could use a variation of the "Panzer" or, at least, the modernization of the "Glasgow"

We don't see as many Gareths as we do Vincent Wards and the two are designed for different purposes anyways.

I agree, but, nevertheless, the number of "Gareth", equipped with a powerful advanced weapons, considerable, and therefore the British are the opportunities for mass production of such equipment

Because some of the prototype technology might turn out to be unsuited to mass production (Blaze Luminous for example) and others might (MVS, the Float System). You have to test it first before you'll know anything.

Speak of the devil...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/cod ... 0812141448

Cecile's Custom "Sutherland" was equipped with energy shields, it turns out that they, like MVS, compatible with standard mecha...

Your argument about existing protective systems would only mean anything if you could point to any mass-production designs incorporating ultratech defensive technologies but you can't. ... As for attacking opponents, again the Vincent Ward does just fine with what it has and can carry optional hand weapons if it absolutely needs bigger guns.

Well, at least, the Command Model "Akatsuki Zikisan", produced in small series, has a protective energy system...

... Your hypothetical F-22 will outfly everything by a ridiculous margin, see everything from much farther away and have a much harder time being seen thanks to its passive stealth. ... Now why is it hard for you to understand that the same thing can be true of the Vincent Ward?

Just don't forget the fact that enemy aircraft far more advanced than in the days of Vietnam - interference, traps, agility, and the same "stealth"

[Dark Duel]

Speak of the devil...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/cod ... 0812141448

Cecile's Custom "Sutherland" was equipped with energy shields, it turns out that they, like MVS, compatible with standard mecha...

Cecile's custom Sutherland is still a one-off modified unit. Its existence does not necessarily prove that Blaze Luminous tech is suitable for mass production. If it were, it would have been.

[Arsarcana]

Have you seen the "Alexander"? (Seriously, the only structural differences have a "Wespe" is the number of "gun barrels"...)

That is completely irrelevant to my response. You asked why everyone else didn't immediately start copying Britannian designs and we've provided reasons. You then ask why they didn't keep using their original designs in perpetuity afterwards and we've pointed out that they did continue development on them at the same time as they worked on newer designs with more similarities to Britannian models. Actually, given your bizarre fetish for bells and whistles on mass production machines, you'd think that you'd be overjoyed with the idea of the Panzer Wespe since it's crammed to the gills with guns...

Just don't forget the fact that enemy aircraft far more advanced than in the days of Vietnam - interference, traps, agility, and the same "stealth"

Yes, and you were the one who asked what would happen if you took a modern fighter, slapped old weapons on it and stuck it back in the Vietnam era. Answer: It kicks everything's ass. If that wasn't the analogy you were trying to make I'm sorry, your English is hard to interpret at times. Either way, my analogy still works. A more advanced plane will still perform better than an old one even if both are equipped with the exact same weapons. Just like the Vincent Ward will still outperform the Sutherland.

[-Mit-]

Cecile's custom Sutherland is still a one-off modified unit. Its existence does not necessarily prove that Blaze Luminous tech is suitable for mass production. If it were, it would have been.

Or is it just the "author's arbitrariness"... anyway, "Blaze Luminous" can be set to "Sutherland" without significant changes in design, and different models of "Lancelot" set modified and modified versions, so the scope for equipping quite there...

With regards to serial production, this technique is nominally set to air warships at Britannia, why not bet on mecha?... Very interesting...

Well, at least, the Command Model "Akatsuki Zikisan", produced in small series, has a protective energy system...

That is completely irrelevant to my response. You asked why everyone else didn't immediately start copying Britannian designs and we've provided reasons.

"Reasons" is the concept of "active defense" Europeans and the "numerical superiority" in Chinese? And how is it connected with the rejection of the anthropomorphic "Knights", especially given the fact that there is already a sample has passed the baptism of fire...

You then ask why they didn't keep using their original designs in perpetuity afterwards and we've pointed out that they did continue development on them at the same time as they worked on newer designs with more similarities to Britannian models.

The question "Why?" they were to create a mecha based on the British concept of "If" their artillery "knightmare" were comparable with the enemy? (mean machine serial, super prototype at the end of the first season was only a few pieces)

Actually, given your bizarre fetish for bells and whistles on mass production machines, you'd think that you'd be overjoyed with the idea of the Panzer Wespe since it's crammed to the gills with guns...

I love serial real-mecha, because, deep down, I hope someday to see their real counterparts in the metal... If I have to choose from "Code geass", it definitely will be "Burai"

Anyway, a couple of extra guns (or missiles?) have a "Wespe", not to any comparison with a completely different design and layout "Alexander"

... If that wasn't the analogy you were trying to make I'm sorry, your English is hard to interpret at times. Either way, my analogy still works. A more advanced plane will still perform better than an old one even if both are equipped with the exact same weapons. ...

The idea of analogy was the fact that the modern fighting vehicles are equipped with modern weapons and equipment, and because the British Empire can produce highly advanced weaponry in commercial quantities, are equipped with the old-fashioned way "Wards" look ridiculous

[ShadowCell]

come on, Mit, we have an edit button. please use it.

anyway that analogy definitely did not prove what you thought it proved.

[-Mit-]

Incidentally, I have long wanted to ask you knowledgeable people, about a British family of robots...

http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Lancelot_Club

Is there a "Club" official model and how does it fit into the overall technology tree of the family of combat vehicles "Lancelot/Vincent"?

P.S. Previously I thought what he was a sort of prototype "Vincent", but now the ancestor of the latter is officially the "Grail" - http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Lancelot_Grail - the similarities, shall we say, non-obvious

[Seto Kaiba]

Is there a "Club" official model and how does it fit into the overall technology tree of the family of combat vehicles "Lancelot/Vincent"?

It says right there in the article that the Lancelot Club is, like the Lancelot Frontier, a one-of-a-kind Knightmare Frame built from spare Lancelot parts and whatever else Lloyd apparently had on hand.

[Arsarcana]

So you edited that out of your existing post and created a new post, just to get our attention? I don't think that was what ShadowCell had in mind when he told you to use the edit button...

Also, the Club appears in a visual novel game with various wildly differing endings so I'd take it with a similar degree of salt as the DS game's Knightmare designs, in terms of how 'real' they are.

Or is it just the "author's arbitrariness"... anyway, "Blaze Luminous" can be set to "Sutherland" without significant changes in design, and different models of "Lancelot" set modified and modified versions, so the scope for equipping quite there...

Are you really going to keep arguing this point?! Please understand, just because you can equip a particular piece of equipment to a particular machine does not mean that it is economical or necessarily wise to do so.

With regards to serial production, this technique is nominally set to air warships at Britannia, why not bet on mecha?... Very interesting...

Well for one thing, airships don't have the same problem with running out of power that Knightmares do, an issue that would only be exacerbated if you stuck it on older designs...

[-Mit-]

It says right there in the article that the Lancelot Club is, like the Lancelot Frontier, a one-of-a-kind Knightmare Frame built from spare Lancelot parts and whatever else Lloyd apparently had on hand.

Just confused by the presence of a "Club" of a number of design features and equipment (the "swords" and "spheres" remind "Vincent")... but it really was based on "Sutherland"?

lso, the Club appears in a visual novel game with various wildly differing endings so I'd take it with a similar degree of salt as the DS game's Knightmare designs, in terms of how 'real' they are.

Well, in the manga "OZ" has already identified the presence of "Lancelot Club" as a personal machine Ninth Knight Nonette Enneagram...though with some peculiarities...by the way she's looking for a boy with whitish hair... it Turns out that the "Club" still official, that you want to know how it compares with the rest of the "family"?

Are you really going to keep arguing this point?! Please understand, just because you can equip a particular piece of equipment to a particular machine does not mean that it is economical or necessarily wise to do so.

It turns out that Rakshata Chawla surpassed Lloyd Asplund? Her energy system protection installed not only on ships but also on commercially available commander mecha...

[ShadowCell]

Mit, seriously. the edit button. please use it instead of double-posting.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just confused by the presence of a "Club" of a number of design features and equipment (the "swords" and "spheres" remind "Vincent")... but it really was based on "Sutherland"?

Yes, it really was based on the Sutherland... it's a Sutherland customized with Lancelot and other experimental parts by the A.S.E.E.C. under Lloyd's direction. Presumably, it's a Sutherland base frame and/or Yggdrasil drive customized with spare Lancelot limbs and armor plating, though it's noted to lack the Lancelot's extensive integration of sakuradite throughout its systems, so it has lower performance.

it Turns out that the "Club" still official, that you want to know how it compares with the rest of the "family"?

That's not a mystery... we know it's inferior to the Lancelot and superior to the Sutherland.

It turns out that Rakshata Chawla surpassed Lloyd Asplund? Her energy system protection installed not only on ships but also on commercially available commander mecha...

Those two took it in turns to surpass each other... but remember, Lloyd was the first one to put energy shielding on an airship (the Avalon), and the elite units given to commanders were roughly equally common on both sides, so neither one really had an advantage (except maybe that Rakshata's didn't need the mecha to raise an arm to defend itself).

[-Mit-]

Yes, it really was based on the Sutherland... it's a Sutherland customized with Lancelot and other experimental parts by the A.S.E.E.C. under Lloyd's direction. Presumably, it's a Sutherland base frame and/or Yggdrasil drive customized with spare Lancelot limbs and armor plating, though it's noted to lack the Lancelot's extensive integration of sakuradite throughout its systems, so it has lower performance.

That's not a mystery... we know it's inferior to the Lancelot and superior to the Sutherland.

Thanks for the info:)

But I meant his role in the further developments - for example, apparently, his MVS and some elements of the designs have moved directly to "Vincent"...

What do you think about this?

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In the manga there is another interesting point - some mecha units are used as add-on armor different versions of the shield...

https://i.imgur.com/AIkJkCT.png

how effective such protection?

[Seto Kaiba]

But I meant his role in the further developments - for example, apparently, his MVS and some elements of the designs have moved directly to "Vincent"...

What do you think about this?

Unfortunately, the Code Geass wikia doesn't properly cite sources... so it's hard to know where it got the idea that the Lancelot Club was further developed into the Vincent. Strictly speaking, the Lancelot Club shouldn't exist in the Code Geass timeline. It was only developed for Rai, the protagonist of Lost Colors, who doesn't exist in the series timeline... either because Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion -Lost Colors- isn't canon, or because the Geass Ending is, and Rai erased himself from history using the Thought Elevator.

Some of the Lancelot's advancements seem to have made their way into other Knightmares, such as the Gloucester units used by the Glaston Knights, before being adopted on trial-production 7th Generation Knightmares like the Vincent.

In the manga there is another interesting point - some mecha units are used as add-on armor different versions of the shield...

https://i.imgur.com/AIkJkCT.png

how effective such protection?

Considering the only ones who really use those shields in the series are the KnightPolice, it likely isn't very effective against more than small arms fire or maybe shrapnel from something like the chaos mines.