VF-19A Alpha and VF-19F Excalibur

[-Mit-]

Is the VF-19A Alpha from their counterparts in "Macross 7"?

Yes, it is different. Many people think the VF-19A Alpha this is a kind of "early prototype" model VF-19F Excalibur (Blazer Valkyrie from "Macross 7". However, this cannot be. And not just because of the "Macross Plus" is adjacent to "DYRL" - in this case, they could be at least identical to, the same as the VF-11 in both these films. However, certain technical features suggest - despite the similarity of the VF-19A alpha and VF-19F Excalibur is still conceptually different projects.

Try to figure out what's the snag.

The wings of the VF-19F Excalibur is much shorter and wider than the VF-19A Alpha and resemble the "Delta".

Vary the design of "pads" that the VF-19F Excalibur have a more elongated and narrow shape, and each of them is equipped with three nozzles, not just one like the VF-19A Alpha.

Motor gondolas VF-19F Excalibur have an interesting design feature in the form of "rings" installed nozzles and servants "nests" for shunting engines. The VF-19A Alpha is nothing like that.

The VF-19A Alpha completely differently located and extends from the body of the "head" of the robot.

Shield VF-19F Excalibur here is a little bit different - it is much shorter and wider than the VF-19F Excalibur, its design and shape changed.

In turn, as you can see, the VF-19A alpha all sparkles and shimmers mirror, with a slight Golden tinge, armor, special protivopozharnogo coating, which has neither the modification of the VF-19 Excalibur.

The most significant difference is the layout of the two samples. Its aerodynamic configuration of the VF-19F/S Excalibur - monoplane, and VF-19A Alpha - biplane with canard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard_%28aeronautics%29
VF-19F Excalibur instead of the front horizontal tail is equipped with additional maneuvering engines.

In fact, we are talking about predominantly atmospheric fighter in the case of the VF-19A Alpha" and mostly space fighters in the case of the VF-19F Excalibur".

In addition, the VF-19A and VF-21 in Macross Plus" are, in essence and purpose, not the all-army military vehicles destination, but rather a tool of special operations. In contrast, in "Macross 7", VF-19F Excalibur" comes in the regular army to equip the elite squad.


However, in "Macross Dynamite 7" armed forces of the planet Zolan appears fighter VF-19P "Zolan", created on the basis of a series of the VF-19 and has the same silver protivopozharnoe coating, like the VF-19A Alpha...

[Seto Kaiba]

Is the VF-19A Alpha from their counterparts in "Macross 7"?

Just a brief point of clarification before I dive into the body of the post... the VF-19A is also called the "Excalibur". The only VF-19 variants with different names are:

• The YF-19 No.2 prototype, called "Alpha One" during testing at the New Edwards Test Flight Center on Eden, but still technically the "Excalibur".
• The VF-19EF Caliburn, the Macross Frontier fleet's locally produced (circa 2058) export model version of the VF-19E Excalibur.
• The VF-19ACTIVE Nothung, a one-off technology demonstrator flown in 2058 to evaluate new technologies and systems integration for the YF-25 Prophecy program.
• Various non-canon variants in Variable Fighter Master File, which have whimsical plays on the "Excalibur" name like "Assault-calibur" or "VIP-calibur".

Yes, it is different. Many people think the VF-19A Alpha this is a kind of "early prototype" model VF-19F Excalibur (Blazer Valkyrie from "Macross 7". [...] However, certain technical features suggest - despite the similarity of the VF-19A alpha and VF-19F Excalibur is still conceptually different projects.

That is literally my first time hearing that theory...

Mercifully, this is one of those long, complicated questions that has a very simple, straightforward, official answer.

The VF-19 has two basic mass-production types.

The initial mass-production type was more or less visually identical to the YF-19 prototype seen in the Macross Plus OVA. It was an all-regime model with the canards, the long forward-swept wings, and conventional vernier arrangements. It had three variants that we know about (or five, if you count Master File's tandem cockpit versions)... the VF-19A, VF-19C, and VF-19E. The VF-19C is said to be the most-produced VF-19 variant in 2050, and is known to have been favored by the Macross Galaxy fleet (a locally produced variant designated VF-19C/MG21) prior to their adoption of the secretly-developed VF-27.

The second mass-production type was an effort on Shinsei Industry's part to address the stability and control problems that made the VF-19 so hard on its pilots. Its design was simplified, it was outfitted with engines that had more stable output, and its avionics were improved to make it an aircraft that was easier on average pilots. This is the version seen in Macross 7 and in the Macross Dynamite 7 OVA, which is optimized for space combat. It disposed of the canards and the longer wing, and gained the vernier ring from the VF-14 and VF-17. Its variants included the VF-19F and VF-19S, Basara's VF-19 Custom (a modified VF-19F), and the VF-19P export model seen in Dynamite 7. Even with all the changes and improvements, the VF-19's handling was still too much for the average pilot, and the military opted to pass on it in favor of making the VF-171 Nightmare Plus the VF-11's successor.

However, this cannot be. And not just because of the "Macross Plus" is adjacent to "DYRL" - in this case, they could be at least identical to, the same as the VF-11 in both these films.

Macross Plus was produced alongside Macross 7, not DYRL?... and the "Macross: a Future Chronicle" extra in the first volume of Macross Plus's original release was the first source to identify that DYRL? was an in-universe movie that came out in 2031.

As for the VF-11's in Macross Plus and Macross 7, they're just two different variants of the same aircraft. The Macross Plus version is the VF-11B, and the Macross 7 version was the VF-11C... but even then, the only obvious differences apart from their paintjobs was that the -C variant had a simplified gun pod and set of Super Packs.

[-Mit-]

[*] The YF-19 No.2 prototype, called "Alpha One" during testing at the New Edwards Test Flight Center on Eden, but still technically the "Excalibur".

Well, yes, the machine on which Dyson flew...And that ruined several test pilots complexity of its management.

[*] The VF-19EF Caliburn, the Macross Frontier fleet's locally produced (circa 2058) export model version of the VF-19E Excalibur.

It turns out it was the main SMS fighter, before the release VF-25? It is a pity that this is no mention in the "Frontier", however, 154 units for combat service command respect.

[*] The VF-19ACTIVE Nothung, a one-off technology demonstrator flown in 2058 to evaluate new technologies and systems integration for the YF-25 Prophecy program.

Judging by appearance, then it is likely, perfecting the technology for VF-29 Durandal...however, it is, again, a single instance.

[*] Various non-canon variants in Variable Fighter Master File, which have whimsical plays on the "Excalibur" name like "Assault-calibur" or "VIP-calibur".[/list]

Too small values...

We are still talking about the production machines, even in small batches - yet this role is only suitable "Caliburn"...

By the way, thanks for the tip ... eh, I can not wait, when will the update "Macross Mecha Manual"

That is literally my first time hearing that theory...

Well, another expert opinion from the couch:)

The initial mass-production type was more or less visually identical to the YF-19 prototype seen in the Macross Plus OVA. It was an all-regime model with the canards, the long forward-swept wings, and conventional vernier arrangements. It had three variants that we know about (or five, if you count Master File's tandem cockpit versions)... the VF-19A, VF-19C, and VF-19E. The VF-19C is said to be the most-produced VF-19 variant in 2050, and is known to have been favored by the Macross Galaxy fleet (a locally produced variant designated VF-19C/MG21) prior to their adoption of the secretly-developed VF-27.

In other words, and "Frontier" (or SMS) and "Galaxy" were armed with the production version of YF-19 is quite close to the original ... but it did not become the main army "Valkyrie"

The second mass-production type was an effort on Shinsei Industry's part to address the stability and control problems that made the VF-19 so hard on its pilots. Its design was simplified, it was outfitted with engines that had more stable output, and its avionics were improved to make it an aircraft that was easier on average pilots. This is the version seen in Macross 7 and in the Macross Dynamite 7 OVA, which is optimized for space combat. It disposed of the canards and the longer wing, and gained the vernier ring from the VF-14 and VF-17. Its variants included the VF-19F and VF-19S, Basara's VF-19 Custom (a modified VF-19F), and the VF-19P export model seen in Dynamite 7.

Quite a radical change for the simple upgrading - in the real world, making the design of so many change reminiscent of the prototype "Flanker-E" and established his base series "Flanker-E +".

That is, we are still talking about different machines

Even with all the changes and improvements, the VF-19's handling was still too much for the average pilot, and the military opted to pass on it in favor of making the VF-171 Nightmare Plus the VF-11's successor.

Best the enemy of the good...On the other hand, I've heard that Kawamori considered VF-19 "too heroic" for an ordinary fighter and because replacing it with the VF-171 - is that true?

Macross Plus was produced alongside Macross 7, not DYRL?... and the "Macross: a Future Chronicle" extra in the first volume of Macross Plus's original release was the first source to identify that DYRL? was an in-universe movie that came out in 2031.

I'm aware of, but the author (Yuriy Starodub) of the article from which information is taken for starting the post has a different opinion. Learn about:

"The first thing that made me think about the connection "Macross Plus" is a "DYRL" had the appearance of a fortress SDF-1 Macross, as it is shown in the film. People who watched all of the branches and the saga "Macross" getting accustomed to small details (a minor detail there is, as has been proved Sherlock Holmes) probably noticed - the design of SDF-1 in the "DYRL" is somewhat different from that in the original "Macross" ... In particular, if the "Macross" to the space fortress as "hand" docked long and narrow naval aircraft carriers "Daedalus" and "Prometheus" (wondering - how they function in outer space?), the "DYRL" instead two more wide and short of space platforms such as "ARMD" (it is likely that under the same names - I "DYRL", unfortunately, did not watch), which, of course, is more logical. In addition, growing from the shoulders of the ship twin plasma cannons much longer than they are the same in the multi-version and effectors guns "of the main fire" on the contrary, several shortened.

So - look SDF-1 in the "Plus" is exactly the same design in its "DYRL"!

But finally include "Macross Plus" to "DYRL" made me ... a scene of ground tests VF-19 "Alpha" and VF-21 "Omega"! There's a moment when Isamu and racket shoot balls with multicolored paint three dark blue suit exoskeletal zentoradianskih martial Flemenmik Nousjadeul-Ger and one white VF-1A. It is the appearance of these costumes put the last point in the question - what is a continuation of the "Macross Plus" - the main line of "Macross" or "DYRL"? The fact that the technique in "Do You Remember Love?", Despite the similarity, looks a little differently than in a similar "SDF Macross". In particular, Flemenmik Nousjadeul-Ger'y different from the model that used Quamzin Kravshera in one of the final episodes of "Macross" presence intricately curved touch "eyes" on the helmet, redesigned shoulder plasma gun and still a number of small parts. So, bronekostyumy vigorously zalyapyvaetsya colorful splashes of plastic balls Galda and Izumo were just "DYRL-modification" rather than the base model makrossovskoy.

Some may, of course, argue, they say - in the "Plus" is used fur design "Macross 7", but it is not proof of a direct connection like that "Macross Plus" is a "prehistory" "Macross 7" because, just as the first fur-design "Macross" has been used with some changes in the "Do You Remember Love?". Just as the VF-1 "DYRL" almost coincides with the VF-1 "SDF Macross" but not identical to it, and VF-19A alpha and Omega VF-21 from the "Macross Plus" with a very similar external design yet do not coincide with their counterparts VF-19F / S Excalibur (Blazer Valkyrie) and VF-22S Sturmvogel II of "Macross 7" and represent a different machine. However, the technical issues we will return below, and now I would like to talk about the main idea and the concept of "Macross Plus" ..."

[Seto Kaiba]

[*] The VF-19EF Caliburn, the Macross Frontier fleet's locally produced (circa 2058) export model version of the VF-19E Excalibur.

It turns out it was the main SMS fighter, before the release VF-25? It is a pity that this is no mention in the "Frontier", however, 154 units for combat service command respect.

The VF-19EF Caliburn was used by the SMS branch office in the Macross Frontier fleet, not by all SMS forces everywhere. Some of the 154 units produced were used by the local New UN Spacy, for their special forces unit "Round Table".

Judging by appearance, then it is likely, perfecting the technology for VF-29 Durandal...however, it is, again, a single instance.

Not the YF-29, that's a separate program... for the YF-25 Prophecy, which became the Frontier fleet's VF-25.

In other words, and "Frontier" (or SMS) and "Galaxy" were armed with the production version of YF-19 is quite close to the original ... but it did not become the main army "Valkyrie"

The Macross Frontier fleet built a "monkey model"* of the VF-19 with the help of Shinsei Industry and L.A.I. (the VF-19EF), which ended up used as a special forces fighter, but had a lot of differences from the 1st and 2nd mass production type VF-19's because of the next-gen technologies and the limiters put on its performance.

What Macross Galaxy armed its corporate forces with was an enhanced/upgraded version of the production model VF-19C Excalibur... instead of downgrading the plane, they upgraded the pilots with cybernetics.

Quite a radical change for the simple upgrading - in the real world, making the design of so many change reminiscent of the prototype "Flanker-E" and established his base series "Flanker-E +".

The basic design, transformation, etc. is all the same... the body paneling got more rounded and the shape of some components changed, but the overall goals were to:

1. make the VF-19 cheaper to produce and maintain.
2. make the VF-19 easier on its pilots with improved controls and stability.

You could say the relationship is more like that between the F-15E and proposed F-15SE.

Best the enemy of the good...On the other hand, I've heard that Kawamori considered VF-19 "too heroic" for an ordinary fighter and because replacing it with the VF-171 - is that true?

Yes, that is the production reason why the VF-171 became the VF-11's successor... Kawamori was convinced the VF-19 looked too much like a "hero mecha" to be given to every nameless grunt in the background.

So - look SDF-1 in the "Plus" is exactly the same design in its "DYRL"!

Yes... the SDF-1 Macross wasn't destroyed in the original Macross series, it was just badly damaged. The UN Forces had repaired and restored it within a year or so using the same parts that were being produced for the mass production Macross-class ships.

what is a continuation of the "Macross Plus" - the main line of "Macross" or "DYRL"?

Macross... DYRL? is an in-universe historical drama/propaganda film that was shot with holograms and real starships, and debuted in 2031. (Boddole Zer's mobile fortress was actually a West Point-class training ship covered by a hologram, for instance...)

The designs from the DYRL? movie do also exist in the universe alongside the designs from the TV series... just as variations or alternate versions of existing designs. For instance, the TV version of the VF-1 is an early production block of VF-1, and the DYRL version is one of the later production block upgrades.




* "Monkey model" is the term used in the original Japanese text in the Macross the Ride serialized novel.

[-Mit-]

The VF-19EF Caliburn was used by the SMS branch office in the Macross Frontier fleet, not by all SMS forces everywhere. Some of the 154 units produced were used by the local New UN Spacy, for their special forces unit "Round Table".

It is clear, that's only about the presence of "the Frontier" magnificent 154 VF-19, let and in the export version, there are no hints in the anime...how could they disappear without a trace?

Not the YF-29, that's a separate program... for the YF-25 Prophecy, which became the Frontier fleet's VF-25.

I believe you, but it looks very similar to the VF-29

The Macross Frontier fleet built a "monkey model"* of the VF-19 with the help of Shinsei Industry and L.A.I. (the VF-19EF), which ended up used as a special forces fighter, but had a lot of differences from the 1st and 2nd mass production type VF-19's because of the next-gen technologies and the limiters put on its performance.

What Macross Galaxy armed its corporate forces with was an enhanced/upgraded version of the production model VF-19C Excalibur... instead of downgrading the plane, they upgraded the pilots with cybernetics.

Here are just examples of local use of these machines...Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the new cannon fodder plane in Frontier, and is the current main fighter in NUNS. Kinda makes that whole Project Super Nova thing pointless in hindsight, no?

The basic design, transformation, etc. is all the same... the body paneling got more rounded and the shape of some components changed, but the overall goals were to:

1. make the VF-19 cheaper to produce and maintain.
2. make the VF-19 easier on its pilots with improved controls and stability.

You could say the relationship is more like that between the F-15E and proposed F-15SE.

Well, some differences in the design is all the same - for example fixing scheme and extension of the "head" of "alpha" and "Excalibur" are different, and it had, somehow, to influence the design.

Moreover, given the relationship between the prototype and the production model (+ the presence or absence of the front horizontal tail), the example with the "Flanker" is more appropriate.

Yes, that is the production reason why the VF-171 became the VF-11's successor... Kawamori was convinced the VF-19 looked too much like a "hero mecha" to be given to every nameless grunt in the background.

Not to say that I regret it - in the end my favorite "Valkyrie" this "VF-11 Thunderbolt", and "VF-171", especially in the red and white coloring, looked fine

Macross... DYRL? is an in-universe historical drama/propaganda film that was shot with holograms and real starships, and debuted in 2031. (Boddole Zer's mobile fortress was actually a West Point-class training ship covered by a hologram, for instance...)

The author wrote this article in early 00's and, apparently, did not have access to printed sources on Macross world, and therefore do not judge him too harshly... From myself, I note that the original TV series and, in particular, "7", out of an abundance of Comedy, or even a parody, do seem to be the works based on real events and their freestyle artistic interpretation

[Seto Kaiba]

It is clear, that's only about the presence of "the Frontier" magnificent 154 VF-19, let and in the export version, there are no hints in the anime...how could they disappear without a trace?

It's possible that, with the SMS forces adopting the VF-25's low-rate initial production blocks with the expectation that the NUNS would shortly be adopting them as well, the VF-19EF's were given over to the pilot fleets that scout ahead of the main emigrant fleet's course.

(They had to go somewhere... though the obvious explanation is that Macross the Ride[/i] was written AFTER Frontier came out.)

Here are just examples of local use of these machines...Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the new cannon fodder plane in Frontier, and is the current main fighter in NUNS. Kinda makes that whole Project Super Nova thing pointless in hindsight, no?

More or less... the VF-171 is actually mostly sharing the main fighter role with unmanned fighters like the AIF-7S/QF-4000 Ghost, AIF-9B Ghost, or QF-5100 Goblin II.

The Project Super Nova VF's basically pushed the envelope so hard that they pushed it right out of the grasp of human pilots until the Evolution program, which kicked off almost right after Project Super Nova ended, produced a viable fighter equipped with an inertia store converter. That took human frailty right out of the performance equation.

The author wrote this article in early 00's and, apparently, did not have access to printed sources on Macross world, and therefore do not judge him too harshly... From myself, I note that the original TV series and, in particular, "7", out of an abundance of Comedy, or even a parody, do seem to be the works based on real events and their freestyle artistic interpretation

Shoji Kawamori's attitude on most of it has been that the "true" version of events is somewhere between the series and movie versions of any given story... but Macross Chronicle and a host of other publications seem to favor the continuity of the non-movie versions as the correct timeline while also establishing that movie-exclusive designs exist in the continuity as well, via various after-the-fact explanations or inclusions in later works.

(Macross 30 made most of it painfully obvious... like Hikaru wearing a DYRL pilot suit with DYRL-outfit Minmay, but with TV series Quamzin, or the inclusion of the YF-29 and movie-only option packs for Frontier.)

[-Mit-]

It's possible that, with the SMS forces adopting the VF-25's low-rate initial production blocks with the expectation that the NUNS would shortly be adopting them as well, the VF-19EF's were given over to the pilot fleets that scout ahead of the main emigrant fleet's course.

(They had to go somewhere... though the obvious explanation is that Macross the Ride[/i] was written AFTER Frontier came out.)

That is, about the fate of the VF-19 "Caliburn" is precisely not known anything?

It seems that Macross decided to take the path of "Gundam" - retroactively to enter different variations of the fighters, and then throw them from the story without explanation is a very bad trend:(

More or less... the VF-171 is actually mostly sharing the main fighter role with unmanned fighters like the AIF-7S/QF-4000 Ghost, AIF-9B Ghost, or QF-5100 Goblin II.

The Project Super Nova VF's basically pushed the envelope so hard that they pushed it right out of the grasp of human pilots until the Evolution program, which kicked off almost right after Project Super Nova ended, produced a viable fighter equipped with an inertia store converter. That took human frailty right out of the performance equation.

If I understand correctly that by 2059 variational fighters pilots not afraid of strong overload?

Speaking of which, I'd like to clarify something:

We, in General, known time frame is commissioned, and combat service most of the "Valkyries"
http://iichan.hk/hr/src/1301178086279.png


as well as the history of their development and exchange of technology
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5783 ... ivavfs.jpg
http://s192.photobucket.com/user/gat-x2 ... 1.jpg.html

The generational change of the main army fighter goes about like this
VF-0 = Rollout 2005, initial deployment 2007, never mass produced.
VF-1 = Rollout, initial deployment, mass production 2008 (benefitted a lot from the VF-0 program though)
VF-4 = Rollout 2010, initial deployment 2012, replaced VF-1 2020 (12 years between VF-1 and VF-4)
VF-5000 = Rollout 2018, mass production 2020 (replaces VF-4 sometime in the 2020s)
VF-11 = Rollout 2028, replaces VF-5000 in 2030
VF-17 = development 2026, first flight 2035, estimated deployment time between 2035-2038
VF-19 = official adoption 2041 (YF-19 first flight 2034, Super Nova AVF ends 2040), possible initial deployment 2045, but...at about the same time it is replaced by the VF-171

But what about the other models? I mean, what remained in the form of prototypes, which served in the special forces, which had entered service with the colonial garrisons?

Shoji Kawamori's attitude on most of it has been that the "true" version of events is somewhere between the series and movie versions of any given story... but Macross Chronicle and a host of other publications seem to favor the continuity of the non-movie versions as the correct timeline while also establishing that movie-exclusive designs exist in the continuity as well, via various after-the-fact explanations or inclusions in later works.

(Macross 30 made most of it painfully obvious... like Hikaru wearing a DYRL pilot suit with DYRL-outfit Minmay, but with TV series Quamzin, or the inclusion of the YF-29 and movie-only option packs for Frontier.)

Hmm...And what do you consider as canonical events? Or, more precisely, how could actually happen events colored/distorted in the anime versions?

[Seto Kaiba]

That is, about the fate of the VF-19 "Caliburn" is precisely not known anything?

It seems that Macross decided to take the path of "Gundam" - retroactively to enter different variations of the fighters, and then throw them from the story without explanation is a very bad trend:(

It happens when you go backwards through the continuity like that... Macross the Ride was written AFTER Macross Frontier, but set a year before the series.

Sometimes there's a good explanation provided, like how Variable Fighter Master File had some information about some of the remaining VF-0's being upgraded to use the same FF-2001A engines as the VF-1 Valkyrie and assigned to guard the Grand Cannon being built in Africa.

Other times, there's just nothing said about why a particular mecha vanished... like the VF-19EF's from Macross the Ride not being around a year later in 2059.

If I understand correctly that by 2059 variational fighters pilots not afraid of strong overload?

Only on the very newest fighters built based on the YF-24 Evolution specification... the VF-25, the VF-27, the YF-29, and YF-30. They all have a new system called an Inertia Store Converter, that temporarily protects the pilot from excessive changes in g-forces caused by maneuvers. On the VF-25 and VF-27, the ISC can protect the pilot from up to 27.5G for 120 seconds.

There is an older, less effective version of the technology that the Zentradi Army used to protect the pilots of the Queadluun-Rau from excessive g-forces called the Inertia Vector Control System, which was also adopted on a trial basis aboard the YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II, and also was used on the UN Forces' improved Queadluun battle suit, the Queadluun-Rhea.

We, in General, known time frame is commissioned, and combat service most of the "Valkyries"
as well as the history of their development and exchange of technology

The generational change of the main army fighter goes about like this
VF-0 = Rollout 2005, initial deployment 2007, never mass produced.

The first VF-0 was rolled out in 2004. Its first described use in combat was in 2008, but it was never described as a main fighter because it was only a development aircraft, and because only about thirty were made.

VF-4 = Rollout 2010, initial deployment 2012, replaced VF-1 2020 (12 years between VF-1 and VF-4)

The VF-4 rollout was in 2012, alongside the initial deployment and start of mass production.

VF-5000 = Rollout 2018, mass production 2020 (replaces VF-4 sometime in the 2020s)

The VF-5000 never replaced the VF-4... it shared the main fighter designation alongside the VF-4 until both were replaced by the VF-11. The VF-4 was basically the "main space fighter", and the VF-5000 the "main atmospheric fighter". A few sources mention that they might've also had one other "main fighter" that was used by many early emigrant fleets... the VF-5, whose operational timeline overlaps the VF-5000's a bit.

VF-11 = Rollout 2028, replaces VF-5000 in 2030

The VF-11 was developed in 2029, the prototype's first use in actual combat (and finalization of the design) was in 2030. It's unknown at what date it actually became main fighter, but it was chosen to become next main fighter with the start of mass production in December 2030.

VF-17 = development 2026, first flight 2035, estimated deployment time between 2035-2038

The VF-17's first deployment was in 2037.

VF-19 = official adoption 2041 (YF-19 first flight 2034, Super Nova AVF ends 2040), possible initial deployment 2045, but...at about the same time it is replaced by the VF-171

The VF-171 Nightmare Plus's first flight was in 2046.

But what about the other models? I mean, what remained in the form of prototypes, which served in the special forces, which had entered service with the colonial garrisons?

There's a fair bit of data available for some of the more prominent VF's that either lost out on their respective design contests or were designed specifically for use by emigrant world forces, like the VF-9.

For instance, the VF-5 first few in 2013, and was in production as a light space fighter from 2015 through to 2023, and was used on some of the early emigrant fleets. The VF-9 was developed in 2017-2019, first flew in 2021, and was built from 2022-2029 as a very popular high-performance atmospheric VF for emigrant worlds. The VF-14 lost out in Project Nova to the VF-11, but it was mass produced and sold as a heavy space fighter from 2030 on because of its long range and its large, easy-to-maintain airframe.

Hmm...And what do you consider as canonical events? Or, more precisely, how could actually happen events colored/distorted in the anime versions?

All told, the timeline in Macross Chronicle seems to favor the versions of events shown in the "series" version of any given title.

[-Mit-]

There's a fair bit of data available for some of the more prominent VF's that either lost out on their respective design contests or were designed specifically for use by emigrant world forces, like the VF-9.

For instance, the VF-5 first few in 2013, and was in production as a light space fighter from 2015 through to 2023, and was used on some of the early emigrant fleets. The VF-9 was developed in 2017-2019, first flew in 2021, and was built from 2022-2029 as a very popular high-performance atmospheric VF for emigrant worlds. The VF-14 lost out in Project Nova to the VF-11, but it was mass produced and sold as a heavy space fighter from 2030 on because of its long range and its large, easy-to-maintain airframe.

And which among them are the "varitech" developed on the basis of zentradi technologies - like "Variable Glaug"? And in General, how available is zentradi engineering in the development of the UN?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe you know what that bird is?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/ ... g~original

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you think about that, what would be the main fighter in Macross Delta?

The production version of the VF-25 for the army and the VF-27 for special forces?

Or will it be something else (like the replacement for the VF-19 and VF-171)?

[Seto Kaiba]

And which among them are the "varitech" developed on the basis of zentradi technologies - like "Variable Glaug"? And in General, how available is zentradi engineering in the development of the UN?

"Veritech"/"Varitech" is a Robotech term, not a Macross term.

As far as the variable fighters not developed by the UN Forces go, craft like the Variable Glaug or Feios Valkyrie are usually developed based on a captured UN Forces fighter. We don't know much about the circumstances of their development, but the Variable Glaug was based on a stolen VF-4 and after the UN Forces captured it they produced their own version starting at some point around 2022. The Feios Valkyrie was supposedly built using a VF-11 Thunderbolt as a starting point, from a VF-11 prototype that was stolen during the last major Zentradi uprising of the 2020's.

From about the VF-5000 on, human-made VF's started to adopt some Zentradi overtechnology in their designs. The amount used varies by manufacturer... Shinsei uses relatively little Zentradi overtechnology in its designs, but their rival General Galaxy uses a LOT of it (and the design lead at General Galaxy is himself a Zentradi).

Maybe you know what that bird is?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/ ... g~original

Nope!

People have been asking about that since the episode first aired, and we have NOTHING. If I had to guess, I'd say that it probably isn't a VF, or if it is it might be one of the earlier YF-27 than the YF-27-5 we saw in Macross the Ride.

What do you think about that, what would be the main fighter in Macross Delta?

The production version of the VF-25 for the army and the VF-27 for special forces?

Or will it be something else (like the replacement for the VF-19 and VF-171)?

Honestly, I have no idea... we don't know anything about the setting of Macross Delta yet, except that it will allegedly be set in 2067.

The VF-171 would have been in service about 19 years by that point, so it would probably have been targeted for replacement. What replaces it would depend on the fleet or planet doing the upgrade. The serious contenders are probably the VF-24, VF-25, or YF-30.

[-Mit-]

As far as the variable fighters not developed by the UN Forces go, craft like the Variable Glaug or Feios Valkyrie are usually developed based on a captured UN Forces fighter. We don't know much about the circumstances of their development, but the Variable Glaug was based on a stolen VF-4 and after the UN Forces captured it they produced their own version starting at some point around 2022. The Feios Valkyrie was supposedly built using a VF-11 Thunderbolt as a starting point, from a VF-11 prototype that was stolen during the last major Zentradi uprising of the 2020's.

From about the VF-5000 on, human-made VF's started to adopt some Zentradi overtechnology in their designs. The amount used varies by manufacturer... Shinsei uses relatively little Zentradi overtechnology in its designs, but their rival General Galaxy uses a LOT of it (and the design lead at General Galaxy is himself a Zentradi).

Yep.. However, the fact that the YF-21/VF-22 and "Variable Glaug" were the only two examples of the use of zentradi war machines as the basis for "Valkyrie" and with reservations:

"Queadluun" YF-21/VF-22 officially lost the test competition, but still in small batches supplied for special units...though not for long;

"V-Glug has been redesigned from the captured experimental zentradi machine and, it seems, has not found wide application (by the way, and to what class of combat aircraft it can be attributed, given that he is armed with beam weapons?)

The impression that the General staff deliberately avoided any upgrade options or modifications to zentradi military equipment using the technology of transformation

Honestly, I have no idea... we don't know anything about the setting of Macross Delta yet, except that it will allegedly be set in 2067.

The VF-171 would have been in service about 19 years by that point, so it would probably have been targeted for replacement. What replaces it would depend on the fleet or planet doing the upgrade. The serious contenders are probably the VF-24, VF-25, or YF-30.

And would you prefer to see the action in space or on a planet or a mixed option?

[Seto Kaiba]

Yep.. However, the fact that the YF-21/VF-22 and "Variable Glaug" were the only two examples of the use of zentradi war machines as the basis for "Valkyrie" and with reservations:

Well... yes, those are the only cases of the (New) UN Government's defense contractors producing a variable fighter based off a Zentradi Army mecha (however loosely). Other variable fighters do use Zentradi overtechnology in their designs, but are not overt copies of the Zentradi mecha.

(As a side note, Macross Chronicle's coverage of the Queadluun-Rhea from the Macross Frontier series indicates that the UN Forces continued to operate Zentradi mecha for a decent span of time after the first space war, with the high-performance Queadluun-Rau being the most popular. The Q-Rau was so popular with the UN Forces that they went out of their way to obtain the factory satellite that made them for the Boddole Zer main fleet when their supply of parts to keep the Q-Rau fleet operating started to dry up... a move that ultimately led to General Galaxy developing the YF-21 and Queadluun-Rhea after they were contracted to repair the factory.)

"V-Glug has been redesigned from the captured experimental zentradi machine and, it seems, has not found wide application (by the way, and to what class of combat aircraft it can be attributed, given that he is armed with beam weapons?)

Macross the Ride's final chapters gave us the New UN Forces designation for their Variable Glaugs as VA-110/VBP-1... marking it out as an Attack aircraft, and the first (and thus far, ONLY) variable battle pod.

And would you prefer to see the action in space or on a planet or a mixed option?

It's Macross... 90% of the action will be in space.

[-Mit-]

Curious, but is it possible using developments on "VF-22 sturmvogel 2" and UN "Variable Glaug", respectively, to alter the original Zantedeschia machine under micronance - so to speak to unify the two components of the fleet?

[Seto Kaiba]

Curious, but is it possible using developments on "VF-22 sturmvogel 2" and UN "Variable Glaug", respectively, to alter the original Zantedeschia machine under micronance - so to speak to unify the two components of the fleet?

Well, it's possible to redesign some Zentradi mecha to incorporate human overtechnology... that's what the Queadluun-Rhea is. Making them transformable would basically be a new design from the ground up, and probably not as practical as a normal VF.

[-Mit-]

I think just the opposite, as "VF-22 and V-Glaug" has its fundamental design mecha produced by satellite-factories for thousands of years, it will be much easier to reprogram them on the production technology has features in common with the already existing "Queadluun" and "Glaug" than a completely different, made up of people...

This would significantly reduce costs and the production and training of pilots, and micronized zentradi preferable to full-size

[Seto Kaiba]

I think just the opposite, as "VF-22 and V-Glaug" has its fundamental design mecha produced by satellite-factories for thousands of years, it will be much easier to reprogram them on the production technology has features in common with the already existing "Queadluun" and "Glaug" than a completely different, made up of people...

The problem with trying to adapt Zentradi mecha to use the variable system is that the Zentradi Army mecha are not really designed for atmospheric flight and have very poor survivability. Humanity does not consider its soldiers or its mecha expendable, and places a lot of emphasis on all-regime performance. That makes them a very poor fit for the (New) UN Forces' needs.

The Variable Glaug was designed for use by Zentradi pilots by Zentradi engineers who weren't exactly on the same page with the UN Forces, and the VF-22 only adopted Zentradi tech that was convenient to its multi-role operation... the outward similarities to a Q-Rau being largely cosmetic.

This would significantly reduce costs and the production and training of pilots, and micronized zentradi preferable to full-size

Really, it wouldn't... unless humanity went to cloning troops like the Zentradi have been doing.

[-Mit-]

What do you know about this model?

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/v ... lkyrie.jpg

yes, I know it was sort of a joke, but...

http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rob ... 1016215341

they participated in the battles, so you can consider it official:)

"Macross Mecha Manual" describes it as a copy of "Orguss", but it means that she has a completely different design(the presence of armored shield overrun the time), and even extra tank mode. I think this is a very promising replacement for the classic "Destroids" :/

However, there are opinions that this is a common "Valkyrie" in experimental armor or even a unique model of "Destroid" made with the help of components and assemblies from Valkyrie...

So, how it fits into the "Macross" universe?

[hitokirigarou]

^
From the Macross Mecha Manual:

NOTE: The Orguss Valkyrie is a humorous in-joke created by the animators at Studio Nue and is a merging of a VF-1A Valkyrie and the Orguss from Super Dimension Century Orguss, another animated mecha show created by Big West. The statistics for the Orguss itself are used in this profile just to give the entry some distinction, but are in no way official.

It's just an in-joke like the beer can micro-missile.

[MrMarch]

Yeah, it's not an official design and doesn't "fit" into the Macross universe. It's just a gag. I'm sure one could imagine a way to incorporate it just for fun, but personally I wouldn't want to go that deep into fan-created content just for this kind of animation joke.

[Seto Kaiba]

What do you know about this model?

It's an animator's in-joke, nothing more... the same as the Misa Hayase cameo in Orguss, or the Zentradi ship with the Arcadia's skull-and-crossbones on the prow in episode 27.