Greetings gentlemen...
After getting acquainted with this topic "Visualizing the MS-01 to MS-04", I have a question...
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This design Prototype Zaku by Mark Simmons
http://i058.radikal.ru/1012/0d/d33cc4897641.jpg
Civil sample MS from this manga http://mangafox.me/manga/developers_mob ... _year_war/
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5318/01- ... 1250723941
Military version
http://www.gundams.de/uc_lexikon/uc_mec ... 20Zaku.htm
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These machines are quite simple and technically design, even in its own way beautiful
http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/imag ... _2009b.jpg
But then ... it appears ...
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GO2k2waqd1E/U ... psoter.jpg
1) the rib section of the body has become a very massive, limiting mobility
2) on top of the armor are unclear hoses / cables are vulnerable to fragments and Hit
3) fixed shoulder shield on the right "hand" - although it would be logical to place it on the left forearm
4) shoulder left unsuccessful forms and the functional features little spikes
5) etc.
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I do not have the slightest idea what guided Zeon engineers, but in the end, in my opinion, this project went very unfortunate...and even in the style of the soldiery "Evil Empire"
Now, actually the question - "What would be developed on the basis of the prototype and in the spirit of realism MS-05 Zaku and MS-06 Zaku II ?"
Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Well, for 1), considering that area is the cockpit+fusion generator, it is likely the place where you need most armour, thus reasonably bulky.(And the centre of the MS is the place with least g-force, so I guess you don't really want the cockpit be place anywhere else.)-Mit- wrote:Greetings gentlemen...
After getting acquainted with this topic "Visualizing the MS-01 to MS-04", I have a question...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This design Prototype Zaku by Mark Simmons
http://i058.radikal.ru/1012/0d/d33cc4897641.jpg
Civil sample MS from this manga http://mangafox.me/manga/developers_mob ... _year_war/
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5318/01- ... 1250723941
Military version
http://www.gundams.de/uc_lexikon/uc_mec ... 20Zaku.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These machines are quite simple and technically design, even in its own way beautiful
http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/imag ... _2009b.jpg
But then ... it appears ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GO2k2waqd1E/U ... psoter.jpg
1) the rib section of the body has become a very massive, limiting mobility
2) on top of the armor are unclear hoses / cables are vulnerable to fragments and Hit
3) fixed shoulder shield on the right "hand" - although it would be logical to place it on the left forearm
4) shoulder left unsuccessful forms and the functional features little spikes
5) etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not have the slightest idea what guided Zeon engineers, but in the end, in my opinion, this project went very unfortunate...and even in the style of the soldiery "Evil Empire"
Now, actually the question - "What would be developed on the basis of the prototype and in the spirit of realism MS-05 Zaku and MS-06 Zaku II ?"
for 2), the back story about the short production of MS-05B is mainly because of over heating problems, thus coolant ducts extending outside the armour has to be added to help cooling for the MS-06. Damaging these ducts won't disable the MS, it only makes their operation time shorter and needed to get back to resupply/cool down earlier. Sounds reasonable enough if you don't consider hidden coolant ducts can in fact be placed under the armour to heat the armour up and use that for cooling.(increasing heated area for quicker radiation cooling in space)
for 3) don't really understand why, but I guess MSs can be both-handed.
for 4), spikes are for, sigh, tackling targets. Seems to be an upgrade from a motion module of MS-05B, where pilots will tackle targets with their shoulder.(05 does not have spikes) I'd be happy if they say the spikes are actually missiles in disguise, but no, they'd rather "rationalize" those as a "fear factor", to make the MS look more fearsome to enemies.(more like hilarious)
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Thanks for the reply
Again, the pilot offset relative to the central axis of the robot - it will not be sick?
However, feddy`s GM, with dimensions comparable with "Zaku", do not need an external radiator pipes.
Shoulder shield "Zudah" is set just on the left hand, and similarly "Gouf" and "Gelgoog"
- Payload in the form of traps for rockets or system noise spikes, unfortunately, do not carry.
- What about the "fear factor", must be noted that all the "Zaku" themselves look rather "stupid" than "scary" ... especially against GM with their chivalrous design
Perhaps, as some pla-models "Zaku II" cockpit occupies the right side of the "chest" and on the left are various mechanisms ... but in all subsequent machines Zeon such a scheme does not apply.Well, for 1), considering that area is the cockpit+fusion generator, it is likely the place where you need most armour, thus reasonably bulky.(And the centre of the MS is the place with least g-force, so I guess you don't really want the cockpit be place anywhere else.)
Again, the pilot offset relative to the central axis of the robot - it will not be sick?
DOM, Gyan, Kampfer and Gelgoog completely treated tradition cooling systems, although it is likely that the matter of their size.for 2), the back story about the short production of MS-05B is mainly because of over heating problems, thus coolant ducts extending outside the armour has to be added to help cooling for the MS-06. Damaging these ducts won't disable the MS, it only makes their operation time shorter and needed to get back to resupply/cool down earlier. Sounds reasonable enough if you don't consider hidden coolant ducts can in fact be placed under the armour to heat the armour up and use that for cooling.(increasing heated area for quicker radiation cooling in space)
However, feddy`s GM, with dimensions comparable with "Zaku", do not need an external radiator pipes.
The problem is that when shooting or hitting the ax this shield can not protect MS from the front and to the left, and it's guaranteed death in battle ...for 3) don't really understand why, but I guess MSs can be both-handed.
Shoulder shield "Zudah" is set just on the left hand, and similarly "Gouf" and "Gelgoog"
- It is much safer to use for the "Buckler" used already and MS-05.for 4), spikes are for, sigh, tackling targets. Seems to be an upgrade from a motion module of MS-05B, where pilots will tackle targets with their shoulder.(05 does not have spikes) I'd be happy if they say the spikes are actually missiles in disguise, but no, they'd rather "rationalize" those as a "fear factor", to make the MS look more fearsome to enemies.(more like hilarious)
- Payload in the form of traps for rockets or system noise spikes, unfortunately, do not carry.
- What about the "fear factor", must be noted that all the "Zaku" themselves look rather "stupid" than "scary" ... especially against GM with their chivalrous design
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
-Mit- wrote:Thanks for the reply
Perhaps, as some pla-models "Zaku II" cockpit occupies the right side of the "chest" and on the left are various mechanisms ... but in all subsequent machines Zeon such a scheme does not apply.
Again, the pilot offset relative to the central axis of the robot - it will not be sick?
Offsetting usually means a better g-force tolerance in certain poses.
Notice the AMBAC system means that the centre of mass is not fixed in the centre of the torso, but an arbitrary point anywhere close to the torso(maybe outside of it.) In case of the right side, it means the CoM will be located on the cockpit when the right arm of the MS is extended out to the right.(or when the left arm is flexed in front of the chest)
This may, or may not have helped the location of the shoulder shield, as that can offset the CoM as well...
Better technology. The Feddies have better basic tech than Zeon, they just have less experience in building MSs.DOM, Gyan, Kampfer and Gelgoog completely treated tradition cooling systems, although it is likely that the matter of their size.
However, feddy`s GM, with dimensions comparable with "Zaku", do not need an external radiator pipes.
So I guess less wasted heat for the generators and better heat sinks?
Usually you don't want to face your target when doing anything. The side profile is smaller and thus harder to hit. I'd like to have a shield that protects the top though.The problem is that when shooting or hitting the ax this shield can not protect MS from the front and to the left, and it's guaranteed death in battle ...
Shoulder shield "Zudah" is set just on the left hand, and similarly "Gouf" and "Gelgoog"
A shoulder tackle is presumably better on the actuators of the wrist and elbow.(and usually less torque on the shoulder joint as well)
- It is much safer to use for the "Buckler" used already and MS-05.
- Payload in the form of traps for rockets or system noise spikes, unfortunately, do not carry.
- What about the "fear factor", must be noted that all the "Zaku" themselves look rather "stupid" than "scary" ... especially against GM with their chivalrous design
Comparing with the ugly monsters of the week design, the Zaku is already a pretty good compromised unit. I guess they do still need some stupid spikes to get it approved by higher ups of the sponsoring company.(and the design of it is actually from storm troopers in Star Wars...)
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Even so, the idea is to specify a dead-end, because already in the "Gouf", to borrow up to 70 percent of the components of "Zaku" back to the classical scheme of arrangement of the cab in the middle of the torso.MythSearcher wrote: Offsetting usually means a better g-force tolerance in certain poses.
Notice the AMBAC system means that the centre of mass is not fixed in the centre of the torso, but an arbitrary point anywhere close to the torso(maybe outside of it.) In case of the right side, it means the CoM will be located on the cockpit when the right arm of the MS is extended out to the right.(or when the left arm is flexed in front of the chest)
This may, or may not have helped the location of the shoulder shield, as that can offset the CoM as well...
It would be logical, but ... "Zaku II" and "Gouf" were only two Zeon machines in the "One Year War" times to use such a strange cooling system.MythSearcher wrote:Better technology. The Feddies have better basic tech than Zeon, they just have less experience in building MSs.
So I guess less wasted heat for the generators and better heat sinks?
I think the wrist shield having a high degree of mobility, cover up, first of all, the most vulnerable with his left side of the "body" would be much more practical.Usually you don't want to face your target when doing anything. The side profile is smaller and thus harder to hit. I'd like to have a shield that protects the top though.
"Gouf" and "Gelgoog" example of this, but as federal GM.
A shoulder tackle is presumably better on the actuators of the wrist and elbow.(and usually less torque on the shoulder joint as well)
In one of the forum has already raised the issue of "ramming his shoulder," and, apparently, this method is extremely dangerous for the mobile suit, so that it is preferable to use Bucklers ...
Spikes can be backdated to do, for example, with decoys
If we compare with "Zaku" and "Scoupdog" from VOTOM`s, the "realism" will be on the side of the latter, and in fact they are "peers" ...Comparing with the ugly monsters of the week design, the Zaku is already a pretty good compromised unit. I guess they do still need some stupid spikes to get it approved by higher ups of the sponsoring company.(and the design of it is actually from storm troopers in Star Wars...)
That's why I opened this topic - I hope that with the help of esteemed colleagues will be able to "construct" a plausible MS-06 Zaku II
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
The 07 is a ground combat unit, thus reasonable to have ignored AMBAC and high g-force designs.-Mit- wrote:
Even so, the idea is to specify a dead-end, because already in the "Gouf", to borrow up to 70 percent of the components of "Zaku" back to the classical scheme of arrangement of the cab in the middle of the torso.
The 09 is also a ground combat unit, and the 09R is just a slight modification of it, so that's taken care of. The 14 and 15 started to use the spherical cockpit, which will be easier for high g-force designs. Also, notice the 06 is pretty much the only main non-symmetry mass produced unit.
Consider those to be technological advances. The 06 had to be finished in a short period with little experience, and the 07 just a ground upgrade.It would be logical, but ... "Zaku II" and "Gouf" were only two Zeon machines in the "One Year War" times to use such a strange cooling system.
I guess the 06 does not really have to care too much for defense?
"Gouf" and "Gelgoog" example of this, but as federal GM.
The anti-air(space?) guns from EFSF ships and space fighters are either small calibre enough so the shoulder shield is enough, or lasers so the semi-transparent coating is enough to protect the suit, and the main cannons are just too powerful but impossible to hit MSs.
For 07 onwards, they have to face more mobile targets with heavy fire power, thus shields became a standard issue piece.
We do see an 06 with an EFF shield in MS Era.
Any close range combat designs are impossibly dangerous. The Heat axes and beam sabres are all stupid in design.In one of the forum has already raised the issue of "ramming his shoulder," and, apparently, this method is extremely dangerous for the mobile suit, so that it is preferable to use Bucklers ...
Spikes can be backdated to do, for example, with decoys
In space, you can see enemies coming in from VERY far (even just with visible light under Minovsky particles scattered) and projectile weapons are very effective.
Thus I say the better rationalization of the spikes will be missiles. Or yes, they can be decoys(either balloons or heat signals.)
I'd say you then have something like a Gelgoog.If we compare with "Zaku" and "Scoupdog" from VOTOM`s, the "realism" will be on the side of the latter, and in fact they are "peers" ...
That's why I opened this topic - I hope that with the help of esteemed colleagues will be able to "construct" a plausible MS-06 Zaku II
Without the ducts, symmetric, no spikes, handheld shield...
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Let's say, but in fact at the same GM who according to some sources is a version of a thorough rework Zaku cabin is located in the center of the torso ... It turns out that the federal engineers recognized the original design failed and rebuilt itMythSearcher wrote: The 07 is a ground combat unit, thus reasonable to have ignored AMBAC and high g-force designs.
The 09 is also a ground combat unit, and the 09R is just a slight modification of it, so that's taken care of. The 14 and 15 started to use the spherical cockpit, which will be easier for high g-force designs. Also, notice the 06 is pretty much the only main non-symmetry mass produced unit.
Dubious technical solution for space cooling, apply to ground MS? ... It is doubtful somehowConsider those to be technological advances. The 06 had to be finished in a short period with little experience, and the 07 just a ground upgrade.
The fact that the shield itself is installed on the right side of the body exposed to the risk of getting the leastI guess the 06 does not really have to care too much for defense?
The anti-air(space?) guns from EFSF ships and space fighters are either small calibre enough so the shoulder shield is enough, or lasers so the semi-transparent coating is enough to protect the suit, and the main cannons are just too powerful but impossible to hit MSs.
Then it would be reasonable to consider this experience in later models Zaku, and "unification program equipment" could contribute to the modernization ofFor 07 onwards, they have to face more mobile targets with heavy fire power, thus shields became a standard issue piece.
We do see an 06 with an EFF shield in MS Era.
Melee in the "Gundam" it "for it is required evil" for various reasons, but in the case of an armed clash face to face, it will be easier to hit buckler than to ram his shoulderAny close range combat designs are impossibly dangerous. The Heat axes and beam sabres are all stupid in design.
In space, you can see enemies coming in from VERY far (even just with visible light under Minovsky particles scattered) and projectile weapons are very effective.
Thus I say the better rationalization of the spikes will be missiles. Or yes, they can be decoys(either balloons or heat signals.)
Spikes-missiles is somehow not practical, the best classic pendant launchers (stylize if needed), and spikes can be used for shunting engines or sockets for traps
"Gelgoog" was the pinnacle of technical thought Zeon times the One Year War, if we proceed from the prototype Zaku, it seems to me that a realistic MS-06 would be like MS-07B-3 Gouf Custom (space version), without spines on the shoulders and hoses on top armor and more "comfortable" (with maneuvering engines) shoulder pads in terms of the movement "hands" in the verticalI'd say you then have something like a Gelgoog.
Without the ducts, symmetric, no spikes, handheld shield...
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
From what the EFF did, it is obvious that they simply put parts together and made it work, and less likely to care about where the cockpit is.-Mit- wrote: Let's say, but in fact at the same GM who according to some sources is a version of a thorough rework Zaku cabin is located in the center of the torso ... It turns out that the federal engineers recognized the original design failed and rebuilt it
This can somewhat explain why the GM is vastly superior in spec to the Zaku, but the experience Zaku pilot can still put up a match. Just like the Type Zero the Japanese used in WWII, which is inferior in spec to the F4F, but a design flaw that gives it a better turn to the right makes them hard to hit in the hands of experienced pilots who knows how to make use of the flaw.
BTW, look at more realistic designs, ducts are already pretty low profile, compare to radiators.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... Waste_Heat
I guess you misunderstood what I meant.
Dubious technical solution for space cooling, apply to ground MS? ... It is doubtful somehow
The 06's duct is a quick and dirty solution, the 07 is just a ground upgrade so they didn't do much to alter the design, since printing same parts out over and over is easier than stopping the factory and redesigning the production line.
In atmosphere, it is much easier to cool down with air as a medium to take away heat, thus I doubt the usefulness of the ducts.
False targets for the Feddies to aim? (damaging them will be useless, but look important enough so enemies may aim at them)
Like I said, MSs can be both handed, so the motion modules can be designed to give it a set of actions that uses the left hand to hold on to guns and shoot towards the right, thus making the right side the front and the shield useful.
The fact that the shield itself is installed on the right side of the body exposed to the risk of getting the least
Likely, but by that time the Zaku's spec is just too low and pilots don't really want to carry a heavy shield to further lower its performance?Then it would be reasonable to consider this experience in later models Zaku, and "unification program equipment" could contribute to the modernization of
Well, print this figure out without zooming in: +=--
Melee in the "Gundam" it "for it is required evil" for various reasons, but in the case of an armed clash face to face, it will be easier to hit buckler than to ram his shoulder
Spikes-missiles is somehow not practical, the best classic pendant launchers (stylize if needed), and spikes can be used for shunting engines or sockets for traps
stick it to the end of a 35 cm pole, hold the other end and try to hit the "--" part to a fly without getting the = part hit.
It is not really easier than trying to hit the "+" part to a fly.
Now imagine the "=" part the main body of your MS, the "--" the extended arm and the "+" part the shoulder.
This is at least 100 times easier than space combat melee.(speed and size scale, in space combat, you are likely to not see the enemy as big as the fly, but only a speck of dust before it flashes pass you at mach 5~6)
And this fails to consider the fly will be very likely shooting to your MS at least 5 meters away in a deadly accuracy.
"Gelgoog" was the pinnacle of technical thought Zeon times the One Year War, if we proceed from the prototype Zaku, it seems to me that a realistic MS-06 would be like MS-07B-3 Gouf Custom (space version), without spines on the shoulders and hoses on top armor and more "comfortable" (with maneuvering engines) shoulder pads in terms of the movement "hands" in the vertical
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Hmmm...MythSearcher wrote: From what the EFF did, it is obvious that they simply put parts together and made it work, and less likely to care about where the cockpit is.
This can somewhat explain why the GM is vastly superior in spec to the Zaku, but the experience Zaku pilot can still put up a match. Just like the Type Zero the Japanese used in WWII, which is inferior in spec to the F4F, but a design flaw that gives it a better turn to the right makes them hard to hit in the hands of experienced pilots who knows how to make use of the flaw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCG7KbUnqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqvlM_WqQhk
Looks like quite a full redesign
Actually really interesting point - none of MS is not equipped with an external heat sink, so I have to assume some kind of internal cooling system ... For example, liquid hydrogen collects heat from the body and cools the reactor, and then used as a reactive mass - classical fusion engineBTW, look at more realistic designs, ducts are already pretty low profile, compare to radiators.
Rather flaw, because engineers Duchy was not a problem as soon as possible to develop a new MS almost from scratch, but here is ...I guess you misunderstood what I meant.
The 06's duct is a quick and dirty solution, the 07 is just a ground upgrade so they didn't do much to alter the design, since printing same parts out over and over is easier than stopping the factory and redesigning the production line.
In atmosphere, it is much easier to cool down with air as a medium to take away heat, thus I doubt the usefulness of the ducts.
False targets for the Feddies to aim? (damaging them will be useless, but look important enough so enemies may aim at them)
http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/sample/s ... 4931a7.jpgLike I said, MSs can be both handed, so the motion modules can be designed to give it a set of actions that uses the left hand to hold on to guns and shoot towards the right, thus making the right side the front and the shield useful.
That's what I meant - the shoulder shield does not protect anything during the shooting
MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai - the brainchild of the "The United Maintenance Plan" looked quite well even in comparison with the famous "Gelgoog`s"Likely, but by that time the Zaku's spec is just too low and pilots don't really want to carry a heavy shield to further lower its performance?
Statistical probability of hitting at long range has not been canceled, again, we should not exclude the melee, as well as "dog fight" on average ...Well, print this figure out without zooming in: +=--
stick it to the end of a 35 cm pole, hold the other end and try to hit the "--" part to a fly without getting the = part hit.
It is not really easier than trying to hit the "+" part to a fly.
Now imagine the "=" part the main body of your MS, the "--" the extended arm and the "+" part the shoulder.
This is at least 100 times easier than space combat melee.(speed and size scale, in space combat, you are likely to not see the enemy as big as the fly, but only a speck of dust before it flashes pass you at mach 5~6)
And this fails to consider the fly will be very likely shooting to your MS at least 5 meters away in a deadly accuracy.
The movable plate armor that can protect at least a few hits, excess is clearly not
Alternatively"Gelgoog" was the pinnacle of technical thought Zeon times the One Year War, if we proceed from the prototype Zaku, it seems to me that a realistic MS-06 would be like MS-07B-3 Gouf Custom (space version), without spines on the shoulders and hoses on top armor and more "comfortable" (with maneuvering engines) shoulder pads in terms of the movement "hands" in the vertical
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/kondo/ms-18e.jpg
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
In general, I propose to take the MS-04 Prototype and MS-05S Commander Type as basis for redesigning Zaku 2.
1) The "head" is made as a motorcycle helmet, without this strange "nose"
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/zeonbase/MS_04.jpg
2) Shoulder deprived of thorns, but will be equipped with nozzles maneuvering engines, besides equip the attachment points of accessories and weapons. Their domed shape also, a little, change that would "hand" had greater freedom of movement (as in AV-98 Ingram from Patlabor).
3) The cockpit will do like MS-06JC Zaku 2,
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/08thms ... ockpit.jpg
only smaller
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... b0910b.jpg
4) The reactor was placed outside the main body in the motor "backpack"
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0409131546
as a last resort, set in the abdomen, thereby increasing the useful internal volume of the enclosure
5) "Backpack" equip four rocket boosters with thrust vectoring
http://www.oocities.org/zz_aeug/ms-06f2_03.jpg
6) The joints shall cover Kevlar to protect against dust and debris
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CZWfjKhYaDE/U ... _Front.png
7) "Hands" equip "vambraces" with built-in weapons
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0720154725
With the snap of additional equipment in the form of a round shield (like "Gyan" or "Jagd Doga")
9) A hip armor consists of four parts: two side armor plates (similar with shoulder) and back, to which are attached to the spare magazine-fed for autocannon, grenades and melee weapons and a small front plate covering the crotch (just in case :/ )
10) Armament is similar to MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai and and something else - 3-slot Grenade Rack, MMP-80 90mm Machine Gun is fitted with an underslung Grenade Launcher, H&L-GB03K/360mm giant bazooka, ZIM/M.T-K175C 175mm Recoilless Rifle, 3-tube Missile Pod (on the legs) & Heat Sword
11) and NOT any hoses on top of armor
What do you think about this project, ladies and gentlemen?
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0617100221
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. Whether you take somebody to draw such Franken-Mech?
1) The "head" is made as a motorcycle helmet, without this strange "nose"
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/zeonbase/MS_04.jpg
2) Shoulder deprived of thorns, but will be equipped with nozzles maneuvering engines, besides equip the attachment points of accessories and weapons. Their domed shape also, a little, change that would "hand" had greater freedom of movement (as in AV-98 Ingram from Patlabor).
3) The cockpit will do like MS-06JC Zaku 2,
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/08thms ... ockpit.jpg
only smaller
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... b0910b.jpg
4) The reactor was placed outside the main body in the motor "backpack"
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0409131546
as a last resort, set in the abdomen, thereby increasing the useful internal volume of the enclosure
5) "Backpack" equip four rocket boosters with thrust vectoring
http://www.oocities.org/zz_aeug/ms-06f2_03.jpg
6) The joints shall cover Kevlar to protect against dust and debris
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CZWfjKhYaDE/U ... _Front.png
7) "Hands" equip "vambraces" with built-in weapons
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0720154725
With the snap of additional equipment in the form of a round shield (like "Gyan" or "Jagd Doga")
9) A hip armor consists of four parts: two side armor plates (similar with shoulder) and back, to which are attached to the spare magazine-fed for autocannon, grenades and melee weapons and a small front plate covering the crotch (just in case :/ )
10) Armament is similar to MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai and and something else - 3-slot Grenade Rack, MMP-80 90mm Machine Gun is fitted with an underslung Grenade Launcher, H&L-GB03K/360mm giant bazooka, ZIM/M.T-K175C 175mm Recoilless Rifle, 3-tube Missile Pod (on the legs) & Heat Sword
11) and NOT any hoses on top of armor
What do you think about this project, ladies and gentlemen?
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0617100221
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. Whether you take somebody to draw such Franken-Mech?
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
The problem here is that you are taking an older version of the Zaku, even earlier than MS-05, to comment on a newer version, which have to be reworked and add in those features where you think is unrealistic.-Mit- wrote:In general, I propose to take the MS-04 Prototype and MS-05S Commander Type as basis for redesigning Zaku 2.
1) The "head" is made as a motorcycle helmet, without this strange "nose"
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/zeonbase/MS_04.jpg
2) Shoulder deprived of thorns, but will be equipped with nozzles maneuvering engines, besides equip the attachment points of accessories and weapons. Their domed shape also, a little, change that would "hand" had greater freedom of movement (as in AV-98 Ingram from Patlabor).
3) The cockpit will do like MS-06JC Zaku 2,
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/08thms ... ockpit.jpg
only smaller
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... b0910b.jpg
4) The reactor was placed outside the main body in the motor "backpack"
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0409131546
as a last resort, set in the abdomen, thereby increasing the useful internal volume of the enclosure
5) "Backpack" equip four rocket boosters with thrust vectoring
http://www.oocities.org/zz_aeug/ms-06f2_03.jpg
6) The joints shall cover Kevlar to protect against dust and debris
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CZWfjKhYaDE/U ... _Front.png
7) "Hands" equip "vambraces" with built-in weapons
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0720154725
With the snap of additional equipment in the form of a round shield (like "Gyan" or "Jagd Doga")
9) A hip armor consists of four parts: two side armor plates (similar with shoulder) and back, to which are attached to the spare magazine-fed for autocannon, grenades and melee weapons and a small front plate covering the crotch (just in case :/ )
10) Armament is similar to MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai and and something else - 3-slot Grenade Rack, MMP-80 90mm Machine Gun is fitted with an underslung Grenade Launcher, H&L-GB03K/360mm giant bazooka, ZIM/M.T-K175C 175mm Recoilless Rifle, 3-tube Missile Pod (on the legs) & Heat Sword
11) and NOT any hoses on top of armor
What do you think about this project, ladies and gentlemen?
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0617100221
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P.S. Whether you take somebody to draw such Franken-Mech?
Like I said, the ducts are there for cooling, since cooling became a major issue on the MS-05. Of course there won't be ducts on the 05 and earlier prototypes like the 04.
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
First - 04 prototype and the first model 05 is only the basis for a new design, I do not propose to take the body of MS-05 and cram it by stuffing by 06.MythSearcher wrote: The problem here is that you are taking an older version of the Zaku, even earlier than MS-05, to comment on a newer version, which have to be reworked and add in those features where you think is unrealistic.
Like I said, the ducts are there for cooling, since cooling became a major issue on the MS-05. Of course there won't be ducts on the 05 and earlier prototypes like the 04.
Second - even if the pipe is needed for cooling, what prevents to hide them under the armor? Or increase the size of the MS that these pipes would have been inside the body? Or change the type of cooling system for a more compact? Or just reduce the power of the reactor, which still does not allow the use of beam weapons?
Third - it is about streamlining and modification of equipment installed on the MS, it is quite plausible - I do not propose to equip beam rifle from Gundam
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
The reason the cables are exposed is that if they were covered with an smooth armor it would interfere with the heat dispersion The zaku II reactor generates a lot more heat than the zaku i did hence the addition of external armored cables to better radiate heat away from the ms especially in space where the lack of air flow causes heat to stick and not disperse like it does in atmosphere. we have to keep in mind that the zaku series was designed for space and Colonial use the later gouf is optimized for earth and has the cables re-flowed to improve cooling and keep them better protected in close combat. the zaku's two post war descendents keep the external cables so it's not bad desgin seeing that the EFSF hi-Zack series adds more external cables to the forearms and some of the AoZ units use the cables to power and connect with extra equipment. the Axis forces zaku III also has equipment packs that take advantage of its external cabling to mount some of its add-ons. if anythiing its an advantage to have an direct connection to the reactor easy to get to that is not the hand plug.
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
If it really needed is external radiators, why it was impossible to make them rigid type, in the form of planes fixed to "backpack"?
Just only a series of military vehicles around the Universal Century uses such a strange cooling system is "Zaku" and mech based on it ... (except for a couple of exceptions) all other models without them
Just only a series of military vehicles around the Universal Century uses such a strange cooling system is "Zaku" and mech based on it ... (except for a couple of exceptions) all other models without them
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
According to sunrise those external cables are high voltage power lines. the reason there external is to keep the lines cooled depending on the makeup off the cables they can get very hot and placing them outside the suit may be to compensate for the early zeon's lack of better conductors after all the zaku is stuck using steel for armor on the zaku while the EFF has titanium and better for there first units the reason the later models remove them would have to do with zeon getting better conductors from there mines on later units. The pre Zaku II may not have had an over heat issue due to an lower voltage on the power lines in the suits after all except for the Zaku I the ms-01 to ms-04 were mwnt to test the idea of an combat ms the zaku I was an early porduction model and was replaced pre war with the MS-06 and it even had an Q type refit to add zaku II power cables to the unit to go with the improved power unit.
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
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Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Because of the design method they used and time limit they have.-Mit- wrote:If it really needed is external radiators, why it was impossible to make them rigid type, in the form of planes fixed to "backpack"?
Just only a series of military vehicles around the Universal Century uses such a strange cooling system is "Zaku" and mech based on it ... (except for a couple of exceptions) all other models without them
The war is pending, they have fewer resources everyday, and if they don't start the war, they won't even have enough resources to keep the country running.
It might be a good idea engineering wise to hide the ducts, but political constraints makes it impossible to redesign the unit.
The Zeon design a frame and fill things in, and they already cut holes and such to fit as much stuff in as possible. Hiding the ducts inside is no simple task, the work around plan? fit the ducts outside, so they don't need to make room internally.
Plates in backpack will still need working fluids flowing around the body to bring the heat from the body to the backpack plate, also, you have less surface area for radiation and if the plates got hit, you run into the same problem of ducts being hit, so why would it be a better idea?
BTW, this is not only a Zaku only design.
the Dreissen, Hizack, Gasa series, Hambrabi, Marasai, Xeku Eins, Baund Doc, Palace Athene, The-O, FAZZ, ZZ-FA, Galluss-J, R-jajar, Geymalk, Sazabi, Berga series, Dahgi Iris, Vigna series, all have exposed ducts.
Even the Zeta Gundam's Long Beam Rifle and the S[Bst] Plan 303E Deep Striker main cannon from the Irish Class Battleship has external ducts.
- Brave Fencer Kirby
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Huh? The beginning of the One Year War was entirely on Zeon's timetable. They'd been independent for a good twenty years by then, so they were hardly in danger of collapse from lack of resources on a strategic level, and on a tactical level the first combat of the war was a massive coordinated surprise attack by Zeon, so they controlled that as well.MythSearcher wrote:Because of the design method they used and time limit they have.
The war is pending, they have fewer resources everyday, and if they don't start the war, they won't even have enough resources to keep the country running.
The reason the Zaku went into combat designed as it was is almost certain because, while far from flawless, it was good enough. And indeed, it proved highly capable against the Federation war machine for most of a year -- by which time newer, better designs for anti-mobile suit combat were already rolling out anyway.
Fighting evil so you don't have to!
- MythSearcher
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
Not quite.Brave Fencer Kirby wrote: Huh? The beginning of the One Year War was entirely on Zeon's timetable. They'd been independent for a good twenty years by then, so they were hardly in danger of collapse from lack of resources on a strategic level, and on a tactical level the first combat of the war was a massive coordinated surprise attack by Zeon, so they controlled that as well.
EFSF is strengthening military power on all colonies, and is adding pressure to Zeon. And before the OYW, in 0078, Ghiren already started mobilization of forces, greatly increases the military forces and of course its expenditure. There is a reason why little country mobilize their troops all round the year for twenty years straight.
All of these are due to the fact that Zeon was already attacking commercial ships for a few years, which is fairly obvious that they need the resources.
They were independent for a while, yes, but it does not imply that they have no economical or resource problem.(well, they don't have a financial problem, they have the money and gold)
At the very least, they have a serious human resources problem.
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
The first "Zaku 2" began to come into the army of Zeon in 0077, and thus before the war remained two years. Given the speed with which conducted the development and implementation of new models of military equipment in U.C., more than enough time ...MythSearcher wrote: Because of the design method they used and time limit they have.
The war is pending, they have fewer resources everyday, and if they don't start the war, they won't even have enough resources to keep the country running.
However, the Zeon's engineers have redesigned this already let modelMythSearcher wrote:It might be a good idea engineering wise to hide the ducts, but political constraints makes it impossible to redesign the unit.
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-06A_Zak ... ction_Type
in this, on the Kycilia Zabi personal orders, only design changes were made not where should
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-06_Zaku_II
But why excessively increase the capacity of the reactor, if he still could not maintain the beam gun?MythSearcher wrote:The Zeon design a frame and fill things in, and they already cut holes and such to fit as much stuff in as possible. Hiding the ducts inside is no simple task, the work around plan? fit the ducts outside, so they don't need to make room internally.
Besides, the EMS-04/10, still more reactor power than "Zaku 2", there are no pipes ...
What would you have suggested?MythSearcher wrote:Plates in backpack will still need working fluids flowing around the body to bring the heat from the body to the backpack plate, also, you have less surface area for radiation and if the plates got hit, you run into the same problem of ducts being hit, so why would it be a better idea?
I must say that almost all of you mentioned robots belonged to rebel groups, so that the cause can be a simple lack of funds in the normal techniqueMythSearcher wrote:BTW, this is not only a Zaku only design.
the Dreissen, Hizack, Gasa series, Hambrabi, Marasai, Xeku Eins, Baund Doc, Palace Athene, The-O, FAZZ, ZZ-FA, Galluss-J, R-jajar, Geymalk, Sazabi, Berga series, Dahgi Iris, Vigna series, all have exposed ducts.
Even the Zeta Gundam's Long Beam Rifle and the S[Bst] Plan 303E Deep Striker main cannon from the Irish Class Battleship has external ducts.
Re: Optimization mechanical design of the Zaku series
the Hi-zack and Marasai were far from being wielded by rebel groups seeing that both were EFSFmain production units. it is really an choice of design style the best demo of why zeon whent with this external pipeing is the post war YRMS-106 Hy-zack pre production types test mod the YRMS-106+BL-85X Bizack TR-2 (Bigwig) http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/aoz/yr ... bl-85x.htm described by the quote from the MAHQ Page
The external pipes allow for the zaku style ms to be wired in to the suit externally making the MS more modular where an field crew could do an environmental of task specfic mod to the ms where the RGM style ms would require the ms be factory converted to change an role barring some minor mods like the light armor where ms parts are removed to reduce weight. There was an reason the Hi-zack became an EFF work horse until the RGM series caught up the RMS-106 was the most adaptable ms they could afford post war. if anything it increases the external cables from the ms-06 and this was an unit that added RGM tech to the zaku line if the external pipes were bad for the unit the AE team wouod have moved the unit to the GM series style and removed the cables entirely. The real world reasion being the ZAKU II is so iconic later series keep the silhouette so we know who the bad guys are. it some what the same in universe the axis and chars Neo zeon movements wanted an unit that filled the same role and gave an morale boost and the Zaku II is the definitive Zeon work horse so both movements made modernized versions that kept the cables for the same reasion and any zeon field engeners could easly make field mods to hook in to those new ms based on old zaku gear.Thanks to its advanced modular construction this machine is unusually easy to modify, and by reconnecting the exposed power pipes on its exterior, its energy can be output to external mechanisms. This makes it particularly suitable for use with the Bigwig design concept.